Jeff Martin Part 1

ready you're watching The Lettermen podcast with Mike chisen endorsed by the hello Deli yeah once again welcome to the Lettermen podcast my name is Mike Chisholm I am so excited to do this show if you've listened to two or three of these in a row you know uh that I opened the program saying that every single time I am so excited about this project I am so excited to be somebody who gets a chance to sit first row with some of these amazing people we're celebrating the greatest body of broadcasting work in history that of David Letterman and Company uh the company is very good and we just appreciate them so much and boy do we have every episode is a good one and I know I say that every single time but boy do we have a good one today there we got a guy on today that um there's a lot of vicariousness I think in the Letterman Enthusiast Community a lot of folks wish that um we could have been part of the family the team the crew uh at the various incarnations of the evolution of David Letterman and his broadcasting history here's a guy who was there um you know in the formative years and we talk about the idea of the pyramid uh being built that pyramid had a tremendous Foundation that Foundation of course was late night um and I love talking to the writers these people who uh channeled the voice of Dave the voice of the show and were able to put out content that just was it's so funny because um it matched the voice of the show but it was also unique and had its own you know creative uh place out there as well and and really at the end of the day late night was the the bottom part of that pyramid now the guy that we're going to have on here I have a special uh amount of personal vicariousness with because he didn't just work for late night uh amazing stuff with late night flunky the clown by the way uh um and and and many many other uh little very cool um memorable moments out of late night came from the mind of Jeff Martin but uh more so um he went on to work for The Simpsons he was one of those he was one of the Harvard guys by the way the Harvard stereotype uh Harvard writer stereotype this is one of those guys we're going to talk to about that uh The Simpsons and then I mean for me personally um you know I I've expressed my love for Norm Macdonald fellow Canadian I just uh you know he's had a chance to work with Norm um he had a chance to work with Craig Ferguson who I love we've talked about him a little bit on this show as well many other things and for those who uh are big podcast enthusiasts you might know the history uh the lore of of a little show uh that was created um and then tinkered with to the point where it was no longer on the air but the original concept and the original idea for it um was was pretty cool with a pretty amazing uh public figure uh Hardball this is the creator of hardball for those who know what I'm talking about they know what I'm talking about um because there's a gentleman out there who talks about this show quite a bit actually so anyway uh I'm really really excited I'm honored in fact to be able to spend a little bit of time with Jeff Martin Jeff thank you so much for taking time out of your day you got the Marc Maron thing going on you're in the garage today I assume that so we will be uninterrupted until uh until the wife gets home uh it's it's I'm in the garage because this is actually my office somehow but uh yes I I uh my wife asked me how long are you going to be doing this and I said uh maybe two hours and you said what I I did how could you talk for that long and I say no believe me that this this uh this podcast I think we can go on that long I think we can too I really really do um I just wanna I wanna start out uh by thanking you for taking time out of your day to come on here uh and thank your wife uh for for giving you up for that amount of time as well um you know my like my wife likes to kick me into the garage too for a couple hours here and there as well and get some questions I want to say I really I'm looking forward to it because uh you you just invited me last week and I said sure you know let's do it and and so I listened to a few and I really liked I listened to well the the Steve O'Donnell and um Fred Graver Dave Rogowski Jerry Mulligan who I shared an office with uh for years and uh you you bring great enthusiasm to it and I I you know when when Dave uh retired I did just a couple of interviews like on on uh Lawrence O'Donnell show on you know NPR they'll call and you know you have a couple of minutes and you say yes well Dave certainly uh introduced irony into the the talk show format and you know that was very influential going forward and already they're they're you know well we're about out of time thank you for your Insight and I listened and you just bring great enthusiasm to it and uh just everything those guys talked about triggered a memory for me and I remember those days so clearly and and uh I I just thought uh okay you know there's lots of trivial granular details about the show that for a wider audience for the average person maybe aren't of of deep interest but for this podcast it's like okay let's get in the weeds you know you're talking about Rick scheckman Kathleen anchors let's let's talk about Anton fig before we're done uh any anything you want to cover no detail too small and unlike Fred Graber I don't have a heart out next time I talk to Fred I'll wasn't that funny like and and well okay you kept saying I'm afraid you've got you've got a heart out and I I want to get in touch with Fred and say what was your heart out correct no man like okay this is the dude who's now programming AI uh communication and and literally came in uh similar sentiments and oh by the way thank you very very much for those sentiments I I appreciate that uh if I I don't have a lot of skill set if I do have something enthusiasm is certainly uh near the top of the list there's no question uh many people uh enjoy that some people are just completely turned off by it but I appreciate it knowing knowing all those guys you interviewed I think I can guarantee they really did enjoy uh remembering those those uh those special days and uh I'm I'm certainly eager too and though the other thing was uh Dave Rogowski uh he was he was talking at one point about well the guys I'd been there with had all left uh Chris Elliott and Adam Resnick had left for uh to do get a life and uh uh Matt wickline Sandy Frank we're doing a lemon color and Kevin Kern had left to do Married with Children and he and I'm waiting to hear my name and uh he goes who else was there and I'm waiting waiting still waiting so still waiting yeah we like to think we're memorable but uh I guess not and just talking about the and uh I I just listened to uh Steve Young's this morning yeah and I I've met him in passing once or twice and uh certainly has great reputation and I knew Steve O'Donnell who who I keep in touch with uh and have lunch with often uh I knew he thought very highly of him but I felt like that was the first extended visit I'd had with Steve and uh he he said um when he first came into London which is two months after I left yeah Steve well let's get you in office and he said here's one and there was a box of Records a couple of boxes of Records there and he's and uh oh well the guy who was here before uh uh did Dave's record collection maybe you do it now and I'm going that was me that was my office so led to a uh uh a very very interesting rabbit hole for a very interesting guy that guy went down that rabbit hole hard leading to a book leading to a a documentary um isn't it funny how these uh these little Echoes can lead to reverberating sounds over the years um so cool I'm gonna go back and forth and talk about Dave's record collection if you yeah you can we can talk about whatever whatever you want I appreciate this so much um let's uh let's go back to the by the way I was talking about Joe Rogan earlier boy what a different life it would have been of Hardball would Rogan talks about how that show uh great idea great concept great everything at the beginning was great and then um The Narrative that I understand is that uh Network Executives came in and started tinkering with things and changing things all around is that is that is that true uh yeah that's roughly true and it was also uh it was uh came out in 1994 that was approached uh to for by Fox to do you want to do a baseball comedy yeah I'm a big baseball fan and and uh you'll probably see that in the the course of this talk it was kind of how I bonded with Letterman initially but uh uh they approached me in 1994 to do a baseball comedy and Baseball fans will know 1994 wasn't that the year of the baseball strike yeah uh many many projects are are snake bet I I think that's how Jim Downey uh described the new show yep which uh will always be my favorite show because it's siphoned off many of the alleged original Letterman writers and and opened up those those precious slots and I I was lucky enough to get one back in um I appreciate where we're going here because uh and I wasn't just doing it to name drop Joe Rogan this is a project that you did after Letterman uh Dave rogalski that who you mentioned one of the things that he talked about was the idea that there might have been my words by paraphrasing but kind of a hole in the bottom of the boat uh where these writers would be working with um uh you know the the pants team at that point this cohesion was there and then of course uh all these other opportunities would would arise for people who worked on the show he thought that Dave expanded his production company so he could potentially keep that's his theory so he could potentially keep people there Hardball being one of the projects that you had when you left the show um I uh you know you made your bones at uh at late night there's no question uh but before that Harvard you're one of these guys and I mean I The Simpsons poke fun probably I remember Krusty the Clown throwing books at Harvard writers in the face and things like that um you know the Harvard joke that you're gonna get you know I like that kind of thing yeah right yes you're one of those guys um you uh you were part of the Lampoon I was I yes I got a gun on the I was a class 82 at Harvard got on the Lampoon uh uh and you know I just loved it it was all I cared about at Harvard uh the uh I got on and and other guys in the staff was uh Tom Gamel who I thought was uh Letterman Rider of course yep Etc who I just thought was the funniest guy I ever met unless it was Andy Borowitz over there you know who writes for the New Yorker or maybe it was Mike Reese uh who was uh in my dorm you know all these guys are uh you know good friends to this day which is probably the main thing you know just just to get a bunch of lifelong friends but I just it was it was a gang of people who were um just very committed for glitter ill to exploring a comedic premise just just all the way to the end and and uh just laughing was very important to them and um I I I didn't love it in any pre-professional way it was just uh uh I I was just very happy to hang out there and and laugh and and try to make them laugh and uh you know Conan got on uh that would have been your your last year of Harvard Conan shows up yeah that's right yeah that's absolutely right and also my my uh last year of Harvard uh the Letterman show goes on it's it's I'd always uh been interested in comedy my dad had you know Bob and Ray albums uh you know Bob Newhart watched a lot of TV loved it but but part of you sort of uh correctly intuits that these shows are made by a different generation you know guys who like made their bones doing Uso shows yep you know I'm not kidding I mean the ones who were led by Bob Hope who Bob Hope was kind of their their guy absolutely you know it shows like it was just done by a different generation and then uh when things like uh Saturday Night Live I think was very much a oh okay this this uh is satirical about early TV and just the sense of oh okay this is more made by people closer closer to my age you could just sort of sense it and uh you know Jim Downey was such the Trailblazer in terms of um you know oh you you could make a living doing this guys like Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld have talked about how important Mad Magazine was to them yes that uh oh adults can be silly yeah you you don't necessarily have to grow up and uh so uh Downey working at Saturday Night Live and then uh my second semester senior year Letterman came on and right away like like so many people roughly my age it was like yup yup you know this this is another one we've been waiting for this and we can talk about what it was about the show but uh then uh Tom Tom Gamel and Max pross get hired on it guys who had met and only known but bonded with you know were they all a little older than you oh yeah they're like five years older than me okay so did that blow your like did that like what did you go to Harvard to to study like um you know like when you saw them get hired there did that kind of expand your young mind going oh my gosh I could actually write my own ticket with something that I want to do yes yeah yes totally what a great feeling that much no I I didn't I didn't uh go to Harvard with any plan and I I did not know the Lampoon existed I uh wow yeah uh went to a cop meeting and uh right away like as I've said yeah you know fell in love with it and and didn't care about anything else during during it's interesting how you uh you know we talk about the uh you know the idea of a sandwich generation and and I mean you were kind of at Harvard when it comes to Comedy you're honing in who you are and what you what you want to be who you want to be uh you've got a sandwich generation with these guys that are that are older influence things wow uh they go and and do something that um you know as a freshman you probably didn't even fathom uh being able to do as a vocation and then you know you get there you're there for a few years and your last year Conan shows up um that's a pretty that's a pretty good sound sandwich that you were in and a pretty neat uh explanation of the tradition of people who came out of that program as well oh well yeah well Letterman and The Simpsons was was at all times uh majority Harvard Lampoon guys yeah including guys who were in my dorm like Mike Reese and Al Jean John Viti was in the next dorm over but like you know and Gene was in your dorm yes absolutely and uh you know these these guys uh remain among uh my very best friends to this day so what a blessing so you were an English guy um imagine in English Don threw that up at me right now by the way Don Giller for the for the viewers and listeners Don Giller is here uh the computer is on feeding me stuff as well um so so you know always an interest in writing then just didn't know how to apply oh yeah yeah well you know yeah I mean like in my high school and stuff I like wrote pep rally skits and stuff like that I mean I I I suppose I was the leading comedy writer at my high school there was no competition and I sure I would have traded it in for you know being good at football or something like that but but uh you know yes uh it's it's it's it's just how you're built for some reason uh this is important to you and you're passionate about it and to suddenly uh be in a gang of people that felt exactly the same yeah you know you just you well I I you know uh Ian Frazier a New Yorker writer he's written several books uh I remember in one uh he was uh extremely close friends with Jim Downey when they were on the Lampoon and he him talking about Bianna Lampoon said uh Jim Downey who was so funny it was like falling in love and sounds corny but but it's simply true when you find your tribe there's no feeling like it I I completely identify with what you're saying I uh where I got my podcasting job is I host a men's mental Wellness podcast my wife is building a men's mental Wellness app her and her team called he changed it and I host he cast it's it's kind of the only way that I can contribute uh I married up I don't know about you you married the the the the creator of of shows and things like that I don't know what you actually yeah my wife Suzanne Martin as uh uh yeah I think she she keeps a low profile but I think she might have uh gotten on the air more more situation comedies than uh I think any female ever perhaps there you go yeah there you go so my wife is uh you know your wife is breaking barriers in the entertainment world and doing things uh with a low profile my wife is trying to change the world and and make the better make this this place better for men um that's where I got my podcasting chops from and and I talked to uh if I have any uh I I talked to these counselors and these psychologists and these people in front of me I think talk about guys who are in middle age and many of them haven't found uh their purpose and and that's why there's a lot of these problems that are happening health problems and things like that so so um you're not being corny even a little bit I take very seriously what you were just saying there because when when somebody has a light bulb moment knowing that they are where they're supposed to be or with who they're supposed to be um and they have that uh that that that Moment of clarity if you want to call it that um there's no feeling like it you got it in your late teens early 20s and that is a very uh special very rare thing um I can I can feel the gratefulness coming through here um oh by the way did you play softball at Harvard so no I played baseball nice I played baseball in high school okay because because I was also told on the on the Letterman softball team uh you were a ringer uh a level quality player I've played baseball in high school and uh my when I moved to New York City after graduation I got a job at the baseball desk at the Associated Press I was a clerk took them which was across the street from uh the it was in rock color Plaza across the street from 30 Rock and uh when uh Steve O'Donnell gave me the call and I went in and at a certain point Dave came in I think just to make sure he could tolerate me and I was telling him yeah I work at the baseball desk and uh but uh if I get this job uh I'll I'll quit and Dave said well I hope we can expect the same loyalty I stole that line for a piece I wrote Oh a good year or two later uh where Joe Fury had just come on to to work at the shows welcome a new staff member and all that so yeah I I stole that line for that but um yeah I I uh Dave was a baseball fan I knew a lot and so you know if people say what was your relationship about like with Dave very cordial and in all honesty we we talked a lot about baseball is he a Reds fan he was yeah yeah and I and I remember one time oh so when you were growing up uh I guess like Joey J was on the pitching stand yeah you know that that that that kind of thing uh was uh got some cred with him well it was good I I did I got through a very enjoyable baseball season 1983 and uh football season was starting up and uh it would have been become quickly clear to the guys at the associate press that I knew very little about football much more you can only fudge your way through so much yeah exactly and and uh so uh the Letterman offer came along uh it was very well timed uh it would have been welcome at any time but one more reason so my first uh my first day on the job was uh uh Halloween of 1983 and I uh I can't believe you haven't done very a ton of these uh because I mean you're you're doing such a good job of keeping me on the rails and all of that 83 you started so we wanted to go right to Hardball and I was like really you want to talk about a failed uh well yeah okay except for the fact that it um you know featured the most popular broadcaster on the planet now yeah something isn't that something and and how things come full circle and and uh um boy uh uh failure you know you talk about the idea of failure you don't fail you either winning or you're learning and and and um certainly you would have gone through a lot of that your first few years there um 83 the momentum it started by that point uh you know you were already at the point where it's like holy cow like the the folks who like the morning show the cult kind of following all of that uh but by 83 late night was already uh had a ton of momentum it was Steve who brought you in do you remember anything about about the interview with Steve uh well well I knew Steve just a little well from being on the Lampoon uh I was on those guys uh radar is is maybe somebody with with potential and uh Downey had told me that he wanted me you know at a certain point uh but um yeah it was just so I I sent in a packet and uh uh just got the call out of the blue from Steve uh we really liked your latest packet can you come in and talk and you know just just the uh that was the the greatest uh break I ever got did you apply for the new show as well no you didn't there you go well you know Conan famously you know talks about how you know there was two places I want to work either Saturday Night Live or or or for David Letterman and sent basically two the the lore is he sent two packets out was that similar to you as well uh or did you have a whole bunch of ideas for some reason I didn't send a packet to SNL I don't know why not organized enough probably but but uh well yeah when you said it uh for those guys to to go work at Letterman it wasn't just thinking uh oh I'd like to do something like that no I'd like to do exactly that okay that's where you're preaching to the choir there's a whole bunch of vicariousness uh which I referred to in the intro there are a whole bunch of people out there who see uh over the the decades people regular people who came in and became interns who then would become you know Big Time writers with the show or big time production uh people with the show uh Barbara Gaines being a prime example of that um and there's a lot of people out there myself included who if I could have had the even an inkling that that was a possibility of what I wanted to do um what do you think about the show like I always say it's because Dave broke the fourth wall and showed the family that's where to me if I'm to dissect the magnetism of what it was that you guys were doing where there is that kind of uh loyalty that folks who loved what you guys were doing had what do you think was the magnetism that has this tight-knit uh fandom that just won't go away uh well um I'll hit it from a couple of angles I mean when Letterman retired Conan wrote uh an essay about when the show first came on and he said something to the effect of everything was wrong uh and yet it was all right and what uh what he meant it's sort of like okay Letterman is he's nice looking but he's got a gap in his teeth and he's wearing a suit like a talk show host but he's also got sneakers on yes and just they were there were just contradictions of bounded that uh uh he he seemed well just just that someone who uh seemed averse to backslapping yes and uh had wanted the the schmooziest job there was yes to be a talk show host yes in every talk show host more or less at that point had been you know hey it's great to be here we've got some great Stars everything is great celebrating Show Business yes celebrating Show Business and Dave you know would Revel in the awkwardness would occasionally seem cranky which especially at the beginning of the show he was he was a young curmudgeon hmm and you know he he was parading stars out and yet you could sort of tell he was thinking this is a little ridiculous isn't it show business yep worshiping of celebritydom so I mean when he would talk on the show uh about like oh you know so many great shows with uh uh marvelous Stars you would say marvelous stars with a smirk yes and it was so funny coming from him because you you know it wasn't heartfelt and okay the in the the basically the first thing I I remember writing for the show is uh after I got set in the office Steve said hey we do these promos every night and we would record them during a break in the show and they would toss them on the air one time during Prime Time yep it was just a little 10 second thing and it would just be uh uh tonight on late night uh Charles Grodin Terry Garr and stupid Patrick so join it and then just a little phrase a little half joke and uh and I wrote uh so join us won't you the password is fun you know what's funny about that is and I could actually hear Alan Coulter say that like that's something like there's DNA uh from late night that did make its way over to Late Show even though it's you know very a lot of people it's almost even polarizing a little bit uh that is something though that uh in the Act five uh Alan called her the announcer I could say the password is fun that is something that I think went all the way through that that that little bit of cynicism or sarcasm just irony you know and another contradiction is Dave is someone you know a compulsively ironic especially in those early years who would let you know how he actually felt yep you know and and the the the the contradictions he was no people would say he was mean in those days was the hot seat and it's like well actually it's sort of scrupulously polite yeah he he certainly was with with people who want to an autograph and stuff like that so something I I did a very admirable thing about Letterman is whenever anyone would ask for an autograph he was always very very polite and and I I got the idea that uh he told himself uh it would be very wrong and immoral to pull a star trip to act like I was you know not just another man you know right because I happen to be famous and uh that that was that was uh uh something I I always liked about him I appreciate that about him too however many times um I don't know if it's a difference if someone asks them asks them to personalize it or not but there are many times where there's that mischievousness where he will put the autograph right over his face which uh I love I love that by the way I've got a couple uh this one here is autographed and when it um you know when Dave's guy went back to get it from him um I thought it was going to come back to me with the autograph on the face and silently I was like do I want that or do I not want that and and uh you know because I think you want it don't don't you it would be a personal touch uh if you will yeah yeah it's um now that being said uh the first big content that you got on the show was the viewer mail segment right we talked about that by the way everybody out there go to the go to uh the official Letterman channel uh to watch Jeff's favorite moment segment it's really really good that's it it does it does a really good sampling of some of the things that Jeff did um yeah the things that he wrote uh things that he enjoyed because there's a couple segments on there that were before his time and then also um uh a bit of performance chops as well we're gonna get to that as we go through this as well because you do have that performer in you as well I'm going to ask you about that but the first uh major thing you got on was uh like many uh writers who are new to the show the viewer mail is a perfect place to kind of uh to set a volleyball so you can just come in and figure out something creative and Spike it right yeah no very I I really enjoyed doing who are mail because yeah when people said oh are those letters real and it's like yeah absolutely they are and thank goodness because you you didn't you know you weren't facing a blank page yep you you'd uh well you just read a letter and then and uh I remember on a there was a 60 minutes where uh Leslie stall I think asked Jerry Seinfeld where do you get the ideas for uh Seinfeld and Jerry said you think I know where ideas come from and I'm going to now tell that to the world so of course there there's you know ultimately something mysterious about it all but yes something like you were male it was uh a great relief too you read things and just every now and then something would spark and of course well there that's that's how funky the clown came about was was uh I think the letter was something like Dear Dave or flunky who actually reads these letters you know I I suppose uh you know it's like a flunk yeah maybe that's a clown name and and you know did it and and uh uh played okay and at the end of it Dave said something like well thanks for bringing laughter into the world and I just sort of ad-libbed uh yeah right without looking up and that got a better laugh and so okay we had a repeatable character that uh you know it's nice to have something that that uh devoted fans of the show do remember and actually when I went to The Simpsons uh and uh met greining you know my my first day of work there uh uh after you know a minute or two he a light bulb went on and he said hey you're flunky I just recognize the voice and and uh yeah I got the same thing uh from Patton Oswald at one time so there you go that's fantastic I uh you know Matt Groening to me is a legend as well I mean I love the life in Hell Comics I was I was a kid who by the way you touched on something that I also uh 100 identify with because I was an eight-year-old see I'm a 76 baby okay so um 87.88 was when you know uh I was doing the sleepovers at friends houses and stuff and we would stay up late or or you know my Dad we had one TV in the house you know we didn't come from money at all so we had one TV in the house in the family room and I would hear my dad after Carson go to bed and uh I'd actually drink I would drink water uh before I went to bed so I'd have to uh have a restroom break and I hopefully timed it that Letterman was on and my dad was in bed and I would go and like watch the TV this far away from it because I loved it so much because the idea of adults acting silly uh captivated me I loved it so much and you guys actually introduced me to that concept the idea that that that that was possible and I I fell for it I loved it so much you know I actually I wrote I wrote down a quote here from uh uh Bill Simmons the sports guy he also wrote an article about Letterman when he retired and uh this isn't this uh this isn't me flattering myself but the quote is uh that NBC show lifted an imaginary rope and allowed me into a little Club the funny Club created for the people who understood comedy better than everyone else and I thought that was that was a nice quote and and uh that and again I'm not paying myself a compliment because that's how I felt about the show just just watching it the the year and a half yeah well it was it was it was maybe less surprising to me because I knew Gamble and pros and George Meyer and and uh Jim Downey and Steve a little bit you know some more than others but I I knew these were the funniest guys I'd ever met and so I wanted to be a part of it and my God the the the use of words yes on those early episodes I I can just quote so many uh just a couple uh things on like the new gift items there was one uh the turkey carving helmet where the the the intro was uh only a lucky few have three hands but that's what you need to carve a turkey properly and uh I would just watch there was uh you remember the praying hands Raceway yes so hard to get children interested in faith and religion well now Albrecht doors Masterpiece of devotion is a thrilling action set and I would just oh I would I would watch those and and uh you know I'm I'm just a words guy you know me too and uh it was just uh oh oh I I want to be uh a part of that in in the end with Letterman they had the perfect guy for that because as as as often comes up and as people have often said that Letterman was a broadcaster yes me and if if and uh that's that's just in terms of speaking into a microphone and only a microphone he'd had practice at it he enjoyed it uh a bit I I wrote twice uh uh it was Dave referring to his old radio show it was if you were male bits I almost surely and uh it was it was it was just we'd do it like an old radio show um with uh you know Larry Bud Melman entering and uh you know Applause Just Like The Jack Benny show like something like that canned laughter and uh you know you know Larry's quit his job Dave well you know too many injuries what how can you how can someone hurt themselves raking leaves Larry says oh I kept falling out of the tree you know can't laugh and let him be like Mad Lib like why you and now I should hop ahead to say we only did it twice because uh uh it may be just a little too static oh yeah yeah yeah to play so they only they only played okay and it's like gosh you know and it's I I wish it had done better because uh they were very fun to do to record them in rehearsal and I just got a very clear sense that uh oh Dave Dave is very happy was when that aired by the way so so you know you're there that's your first year like within the first year of you being there seeing this stuff happening um I just appreciate so much that we talk about okay so so you're evolving something here and oh go ahead you know something I wanted to when you were saying uh that you were up late at night yeah you know yes I I I I I I kind of pulled a Ringo with with Letterman and The Simpsons I I moved into an entity that was well established and ready to take off in a big way and and I hopped on and uh you know I like Ringo I I contributed but uh I I was never one of the main main Geniuses uh at the center who created it but but anyway I I the fact that when I first came on uh like no one people didn't get VCRs till 85 86 and that sort of thing and I was just I was constantly astonished that that everyone saw these things uh let me I'll share one uh let's see did something where uh uh somebody uh wrote a bit where they compared the top of Dave's head said it looked like he had a hamster up there and Paul Schaefer had laughed and got you know he said like I called him hamster head okay like that weekend we go out for the Emmys and we happened to win that year and we're making the rounds of the press it's all very exciting and people out across the street on the other side of the sawhorses uh you know Letterman walks by and someone calls out you know hamster head and those sort of things Jerry Mulligan and I uh talk to colleges uh for a while and and um uh they did a little lecture circuit yeah a dozen colleges and uh you bring up anything you people would ask you know I'd say like well there's the time a crisp and Glover came on the show of course did the karate kick at Dave's head and just the whole audience there'd be that oh yeah oh yeah yep saw it saw it and it's all very flattering but it's also like that was on at 1 15 in the morning yeah what were you all doing don't you people have jobs well not college students but uh I'm just amazed how many people uh saw this stuff yeah we did uh just one more along those lines we did a top ten I think it was top ten uh home run calls uh new home run calls and uh number uh that's a great promise touch them all stuff like that and the number one was uh the only one was Elvis has left the building there you go perfect it was the 1987 World Series and Ken herbeck uh uh hits a Grand Slam in that World Series and they're panning the crowd and someone holds up uh and someone is holding up a sign saying Elvis has left the building and you you just uh you you can't believe the the the stuff got out there and had that much impact and well my goodness multiply that by 10 with the Simpsons oh yeah well and and I mean I I I've told a couple of people that this conversation is happening uh today and I mean there's so many questions that kind of got thrown at me oh asking about this about the Simpsons all that yeah the prediction tool of The Simpsons and all that uh you know crazy um how this observant observational group of people all they're doing is observing things and and it's it comes across like they're reading the tea leaves but really at the end of the day um you know a lot of it's Common Sense by the way I gotta tell you you're on brand just so you're aware even even the staff moments I don't know how Walter edited it I don't think he did it out of order though the first thing you do is you talk about other people and how great they are and you diminish what you did yourself uh Ringo by the way a hell of a drummer um I mean but everybody in the in Letterman's crew um uh with maybe the exception of Morty I'm kidding Morty I'm just kidding buddy I'm just it's okay Morty doesn't watch a show we're going back and forth I'm such a baseball fan and such a Beatles fan and they'll always come up at some point in a conversation uh got the meet Ringo uh through the uh he I saw he was on the Letterman show yeah and like I am going to write a cold opening uh involving Ringo so I get to meet him and uh I did yeah and uh I I did I won I wrote one where uh uh Anton fig comes in the dressing room and Ringo's you know Anton I haven't seen you since we were kids how are you doing Ringo what's up you know well let's see I was in The Beatles you know goes oh they were very popular a dozen movies and now I'm married to belgrabach you know good for you Letterman's listening to this in the background how about you and Anton says uh just got out of prison Bingo goes ah well you know nice seeing you any leaves and Dave uh Anton why didn't why didn't you tell him uh I was uh you're the drummer for the show and Anton says I was ashamed laughs so I met Ringo I met him again when he did The Simpsons when he was on the one where Marge painted his point yeah oh my God that was what a fantastic episode that was I put it on me wall and yes and uh yeah now we just put as many britishisms and I was you know I uh I said would he say thanks forgive the lateness of me reply and you know the epicness of me reply that doesn't work and we've talked about uh yellow you know uh he said so you know just thinking of something to say so you've been animated The Beatles cartoons and Yellow Submarine and he goes Yellow Submarine was better and I know that okay so Conan who remains a very good friend uh he was going to be on Conan several years ago and he said you want to come to rehearsal yes I do and yes I do yes I do and he and Conan they were her stack naturally and I uh you know you know he says hello and I told him oh you did the Letterman show you did The Simpsons and he uh laughing said I remember so well which was his way of saying I don't remember I have no clue yeah I I I meet thousands and thousands of people and it means so much more to them than it does to me um that's many of you guys by the way just again to go back that's many of you guys like I'm looking at this going okay this conversation to me is a dream come true you'll of course uh we'll forget about it in about 45 minutes after the uh the program's over uh hamster head September 18th 87 and Ringo was June 20th 1989.

um right right around the time you were getting ready to uh to depart at that point um but let's go back to what we were just talking about here when you met Chris Elliott for the first time did you just want to talk aziroff about Bob and Ray uh I I don't know I don't want to bother people I think it might be why by the way that's why I have this show I have no problem I have no filter bothering people that's how I got this thing um is you know he'd asked me about uh you know so what do you what do you think uh Ray knight uh you know I think he should have taken the Mets off or you know just maybe first baseman for the Mets uh in those days and uh we we keep it very light in that direction uh yeah it was it was it was it was interesting like um listening to in those early days when yeah Fred Fred Graver said he'd gone into producer Barry sand and said like how am I doing on the show and Barry said you know you're doing fine never come ask me that again and uh I mean and it's like and and the funny thing is I I didn't uh I didn't I I found out later that I was not on the most solid ice during those uh first 13 weeks um wow well look I was I was 22.

yeah I was you know very green I'd bring in uh my share of half-baked ideas sure you know just like hey you know there was night of 100 Stars let's do a night of half a dozen Stars only it'll become clear in the course of the show we only got like four you know it just just throwing stuff you know hey let's for the Christmas let's do a golfer's Christmas and Calvert will be dressed as Santa and he'll say the stockings were hung by the general care and I said Jack Nicholas soon would be there we'll dissolve too you know and you know things that uh okay all right maybe that's kind of you know but and and as with so many others Steve O'Donnell was like very nice about um you know well we have to think about you know how that would play out after the initial uh yeah how how your your raw ideas may or may not work you know and and um so but I I uh naively I think I had the I was like the lead in a uh a romantic comedy where I think I just felt like I love this so much that it must love me back yeah it was was my naive I'm in those days um I would I would actually play it's crazy to remember that I would actually stay after the day's work and go into the room where they had uh the old videotapes and and I would load you know there was because a briefcase them into the machine and and watch some old comedy segments uh uh I I might have missed you know but uh I mean you're really that you're like an athlete watching the game day footage you're watching footage of the opponent or or whatever you want to call it I mean that's that's to me uh that sows the seeds of of greatness or at least success anyway right there um uh wow I I I um appreciate where you're coming from talking about the early days of you being on thin ice naivete is I'm in my opinion one of your best friends in the world many times when it comes to that um that being said you got Dave to do some things that uh stereotypically shouldn't be possible uh one thing I'm thinking of is uh if you go onto giller's Channel there's a couple of uh of Jeff's uh um compilations that are there flunky is there and then uh the actor singer is there but but you got him to actually participate in some musical numbers and and which he famously loads and does not want to be a part of the Mary Tyler Moore footage uh uh you know begrudgingly was put on in the last week oh yeah was that hilarious oh oh with Michael Keaton you know you got Dave to actually participate in a couple of those things this is going to also dovetail to your musical prowess as well participate okay participate in quotes uh yeah okay there was one uh I actually I wrote this one with Joe tocklin but uh he he uh it was Dave thinking you know boy What would life be like without TV gee I wonder you know and and uh and then we were dancing around him and singing this uh you know song Joe and I read just you know life without TV it wouldn't be nice no Cagney and Lacey no Miami Vice and you know and we're dancing around Dave and he's you know his his participation was to scream and it was a night and Paul wakes him up and he goes like Oh my God I dreamed I was hosting the enemies it was a nightmare but a little behind the scenes is uh you know like when I uh I like music I like musicals I was in them in high school and and uh I uh so when we were doing that uh bit that bit in rehearsal Dave said to me uh and or maybe it was we did another one election day Dave you know we're I'm not burying a strawberry Election Day election day the punch line on that one was great too right and and um when we were doing those I do remember Dave said to me uh you like this don't you you like singing and you know like he caught me you like singing and dancing around and and I admitted uh I I guess I mind it less than the next guy now here's the funny thing is is uh I would have a little bit of uh an occasional running gag with Dave of I pitched something that he wouldn't do in a million years and uh I'd say uh you know a second day maybe uh uh start the show with a song you come out you know and you go uh feeling good crowd looks great Magic's on its way you know and you know I've written a song magic magic is on its way and Dave not great great uh you know let's let's see the charts you know I'm gonna we can get back to music but I'm uh I'm gonna share another one uh oh please please as they come let this through my friend okay when we did the uh the airplane yeah episode um the the uh I was I said you know I got an idea for the cold opening day I think it's because we were I didn't hang out pitching with Dave too often I I you know he he would go in his office we would give our jokes to Steve he'd take them in and the movie The Late Shift at one point he's talking to a few writers I I liked that movie I thought it was pretty accurate but at one point he was talking to uh uh some writers and he's like okay yeah don't come back till it's funny and I thought nope didn't happen but I think we were like probably riding to the airport which is why you know I was spending time with them and I said well I got an idea for the uh cold opening is uh you've lost your wallet you see so you don't have the money to get on the plane you know he knows he knows and uh you know and you see a sign children ride for free seeing that gets the wheel spinning and we flip two you come up uh to the interest of the plan you got a Buster Brown outfit on see just the wig and then the hat and shorts and you're holding a big lollipop Dave's just like right right love it and uh you know some woman will get a shapely uh gal maybe one of Dean Martin's gold diggers and she say oh what a cute little boy and you you you jump up in her arms and Nestle in and she carries you on the plane he's like great let's do it you know order the lollipop so a little fun in that direction uh anyway uh yeah well hold on talking about car rides with Dave I heard there's a car ride to Vegas oh car ride outside of Vegas oh boy you really did your homework didn't you okay this is fun okay when we when we did the uh Las Vegas shows uh this is how I hoped it would be let's just let's just hop around because awesome oh good good yeah I like that too I don't want to go chronological everything triggers a memory good yes that's that's what we want yes okay well uh just backing up a little um my wife and I happen to be in New York City uh just before uh the his final show like two weeks before uh and I just took a I just took a flyer and called got his assistant's number and called Dave I'm in town I know you're busy I would like to come by and say hi and thanks if you have the time same thing Steve O'Donnell did probably same week um and uh and uh God word back yes that would be fine and uh here's a funny thing it was the show that President Obama was on and uh wow so so uh I I texted my daughters hey first Obama then me and one of them texted back uh uh that should be Hillary's slogan so okay is this the same daughter that wrote an episode of The Simpsons both my daughters have co-written an episode of The Simpsons with with me both are uh my my uh my younger daughters on the new uh Kelsey Grammer Fraser reboot yeah my older daughter is uh a star in uh Nicolo the world of Nickelodeon children's TV amazing there's another Letterman writer on them all four of us yeah we would not know what to do with the a kid who wanted to do something useful the comedy writing family and uh anyway uh wow what what oh and and um I got us into uh uh we we went out a week early and Steve took me uh and just to scout out locations in Las Vegas yep and uh one day uh a group of us also including dads uh uh went out to uh Hoover Dam to scoot that Scout that and we kept driving uh Eastward toward uh Flagstaff and there was a an off the highway there was an old mining town Chloride Arizona the oldest continually occupied mining town in the state and and uh rode a couple of Miles off the highway and it's just there's nothing there a couple of structures uh uh a dust you know one place to get uh something to eat and so we we went in we we we went into that place and there was like an old upright piano off in the corner and uh at one point uh I went over to it and sat down and I started playing and I just sang uh you know The Shadow of Your Smile just just like a cocktail song sure and and that that really tickled day if just you can imagine well just of course that incongruity oh yeah absolutely you go in and sing a song that you'd hear in a gin joint in that setting uh yeah I mean that's so fantastic something Dave would enjoy sure and and so and uh so when when we sat down and and uh uh reminisced two weeks before uh he retired from the show uh that's that's what he chose to remember oh that's cool yeah I I appreciated that it's yeah uh I also that was some of the most fun stuff on the show was going to other cities because people would camp out all night you know in Chicago in in Los Angeles and it's this is very flattering and I'm glad I like the show too but you know it's a talk show you're camping out all night for a for an episode of a talk show crazy but the the uh I was uh along on the uh uh the one we did with bozo oh yeah wow in Chicago yeah yeah yeah I guess he's just been on forever in Chicago so we spent the day with them yep and uh there were some great and Congress stuff in that sitting again sitting in a van at one point Dave asked him I think this might have gotten on the uh actually was shown uh talking about his favorite meal and the guy the guy was a foodie this bozo and he's just well I think a salad with it with a light vinaigrette and then you know he's just sort of discussing this meal and Dave Dave is just like oh yeah oh delicious you know you could tell that appeal to him and at one point uh didn't get on camera and I wish I had the picture but uh we we got into Old Comiskey Stadium we just drove up and uh it was you know hey we got David Letterman here can we see the field sure they let us in I couldn't find it but there is a picture of me shaking hands with the with Bozo uh where Louis aparicio Patrol that's the kind of thing that I love taking one thing uh and putting it into another setting uh a very cool setting and then it's it's it's just character Beyond character that that is a really really neat story here uh I won't do too many here's a picture of these guys Tom Jones me and Liberace oh are you kidding me look at that kid yeah we're guests uh uh they were guests on the show and how about a picture and it's and yeah I want to put a wreath around that and make that my Christmas card no kidding is that the Letterman show just odd juxtaposition that's exactly right um you know to go back to some of the other things the musical things uh but is there anything more in the car ride with Dave is there anything else that uh we want to talk about here in the car ride with Dave oh oh uh all right that'll do for now I'll do for now okay um going back to the the musical stuff um by the way uh 86 uh September 18th 86 life without TV the Emmys were three days later which Dave hosted uh so there's the the circle on that uh the late night world of love uh Dave participated in the chorus singing Jeff and Meryl wrote that so there you go and then also late night Anthem um those are the same thing uh okay uh yeah whatever uh that was the age of anthems like uh we are the world and stuff oh yeah Coca-Cola all that stuff yes that's right and and uh yeah I did uh wacky Pro jokes on both of those things but the the uh the um Meryl said hey we should have an Anthem and uh I actually and I I went I wrote the song I did I went down to where they had pianos there and the NBC record library and uh uh it came together very fast and that one just just had uh uh luck behind it you know I I wrote the song showed it to Paul he sort of recorded it on his uh keyboard we brought in a bunch of kids the late night International Children's Choir it's like four kids I think it was something like four kids yeah it's four kids and uh we shot it on one day and and then uh spent a couple of days editing it sticking in a bunch of uh shaky footage the the odd videos from from Rick Shack man and it's just it's just a whole lot of nothing you know it's just just phrases like you know a thing called Happiness you know there's there's a cool breeze blowing you can feel across the land is is all very stirring but uh it it and at the end Dave joins in singing it and it's funny him doing it because it's Dave I'm gonna fear I'm going to Veer off on something else because is uh one I uh one joke that uh bits always stuck with me it was uh I think they asked something like the the viewer mail something like how come you never sing and dance or something and oh well you're in luck in fact there's something coming up like and it was uh I wrote a bit it was just like coming up you know uh uh Dave sings Dave dances Dave wears funny hats you know and it was the punchline was all on David Letterman's cold day in Hell special it was fun to do and I remember shooting it it was sort of like okay he was willing to pretend to sing you know yeah you know and it was like you get to the dance part and I was like uh you know in rehearsal I was sort of like um I don't know if you want to do a little soft shoe and he says no that's not going to happen and so what we finally figured out okay here one of the one of the ladies on the staff here you'll you'll dance around okay that checks the Box Dave dances but uh just just what we were talking about earlier is uh just what an interesting thing about Letterman uh a great Entertainer who uh issued so many of the common tools he issued the yes he did right there by the way I believe Steve O'Donnell said his shoes so he sure did Yep this is good as well no actually I'm not but I uh I'll use that word and and uh yeah just just what an interesting guy so you know a performer who uh got uncomfortable if the audience applauded too much you know was not comfortable with it you know that that was a bit that that encapsulated that uh anyway the the it was a a piece that went well and and uh and so the idea came back around uh uh when uh and another anniversary show rolled around hey let's let's do it at the end of the show in fact let's get Tom Jones to sing it and uh ask me about Tom Jones after I finish this story but what a great great memory probably late in 1988 something of uh on the weekend Paul Schaefer and I went to uh Tom Jones suite at the Sherry Netherlands to rehearse it he had a piano in his his hotel suite and brought along the background singers and uh including Melissa Etheridge and Darlene Love God yeah and you know Tom comes out of his room good morning you know and all that and and uh Tommy Tom Jones I think was smart enough to keep it simple uh yeah and uh you know I'm just gonna give a hundred percent every time I do anything and you know it'll all work out for me if I do that so he starts you know he's Tom Jones go ahead belt it buddy yeah he just starts you know he just sings the hell out of it and and I wrote for that occasion uh for Tom Jones there's a spoken part uh Midway through his song The Green Green Grass of Home and I wrote uh something similar with and then I awake and look around me at the many Nielsen families that surround me you know and still don't know about a certain talk show that can feel the hunger in their souls and I just just brought it a hundred percent commitment and it was uh it was obviously going to be good and and uh you could Paul Shaffer God love him in that sort of situation he is is uh so infectious his genuine enthusiasm for it and and um I bet Tom Jones was in our radar because of another uh real happy moment uh you remember before you were males no before different segments uh this was Supermarket fines you know Paul David go Paul do you have a song for it and after a while we were doing a thing where somebody would come out from behind the uh uh Paul's station yeah and we did Johnny Mathis jingle for the bit right a jingle for the bit by far the best but the gray one was was Tom Jones and um he uh so I I got together with Paul that afternoon uh and Paul was like I this guy he's got a great voice this is going to be great this is going to be great and so we we thought of different words to Long Paul Sally um Lauren burner for the Beatles there we checked that box uh he got uh it was just just uh you know lock up all the windows draw up all the blinds time for David Letterman Supermarket finds on David and and uh and it was it was just you know at the ending he's just going you know he's going to blow your minds with these Supermarket fans and just blew the roof off you know he's just great and and so it was a great bit in and of itself and and now to the extent that you might have suspected we're we're making fun of people in Showbiz who who like who's weren't at their peak of their star power right I don't really think that's true I think I think we all had genuine fondness for Tom Jones and Jerry Vale and all that if you suspected that at all well at any rate the best revenge would be to come in blow the doors off I remember I remember in rehearsal uh Tom saying to Paul uh asking Paul and then I split he says and then I split and then uh he didn't fall down yeah yeah and that's it so he finishes it high five you know slap fall five and exits and when the place finally calms down uh Dave says well now I gotta do this stupid how do I follow that yes so these are those are those are those are happy that's a happy example of a piece falling flat oh yeah I'll give you another highlight with Tom Jones coming in and doing his thing and and yeah that's that's ironic give me another I'll give you another happy example of that at least when uh they uh uh Dave and Steve O'Donnell went to did a remote where they went to Washington DC to uh uh spend a day with a congressman and uh I didn't go on it but I was thinking well a bit to do I'm thinking okay the Lincoln Memorial maybe Dave goes to the Lincoln Memorial and uh yeah this is years before Lisa Simpson went to the Lincoln Memorial I'm suing George Meyer okay as soon as this is done I'm yeah yeah okay Stewart did it and uh and Mr Smith I think perhaps he did okay never mind uh uh uh so I'm thinking they've also did it by the way so it goes to ca blanken to the Lincoln Memorial uh you know what's his dilemma and I thought okay his dilemmas whether or not to do one more you know every more every day on the show he'd go uh what do you think we're gonna do one more we're gonna do one more joke that's what it was yes yes so you spin it into a boy I don't know I don't know and he leaves the studio and he's walking around Washington DC gets to the Lincoln Memorial now you know he's how will I ever decide his voice so much at stake so many people counting all right now here's a guy who had to make some tough decisions you know what would he do and and then you know close-up of Lincoln and I actually did the voice of Abe Lincoln saying oh that's cool government of the People by the people for the people you know showing Dave thinks you know let the people decide and it it's getting big it was a we had a lot of uh pieces that uh were sort of uh patriotic you know ended with the American it did it touched even though you were being ironic it would touch the the that third rail of power when it comes to patreon we we got around we never certainly never had writers meetings and said how can we convince our viewers what a great country this is you know nothing like that but but we we you know a show like SNL was still maybe in uh you know uh Nixon socks you know uh some vestiges of that kind of thing and it was a more patriotic age you know with the Olympics in 84 and yeah so forth and and uh so maybe we were a little more uh in tune with the times uh having having it it was it was an audience it was a crowd pleaser go to go to a waving American flag yeah but the punch line to that joke though yeah okay Dave comes back in LC audience I'll let you decide should I do this joke but but then uh when the when the time comes uh uh and he does the joke and of course you know a joke cannot live up never no matter what it is I also I wrote the uh or I've got my name on The Simpsons episode uh uh Lisa's first word which was Maggie's first word which was uh recorded by Liz Taylor and if you recall uh it was at least Maggie's first award at the end of the episode was Daddy yep yep which you know it was kind of nice it was kind of touching but but it was very sweet yeah but on some message boards um it was like what that's it and it's like okay fine you tell me I'm not about practice you tell me that's funny though what word what word would have blown you away just like who would have shot who possibly could have shot Mr Burns that would have uh led up to the excitement of who shot Mr Burns nobody could no my my dear pal John VD uh I think yeah he wrote the Troy McClure uh the looking back at the show where he said yes everyone was crazy thinking about who shot Mr Burns then they found out it was the baby the gag that I loved out of that one was Troy McClure talking about uh Matt granny NRA for like what's the uh what's the uh what's the on the digital display of the cash register and it's Matt Grady NRA for life talking about his right-wing gun toning agenda or whatever it was I liked uh I like that joke a lot um I want to go back to a few things here because we've got a whole bunch of things that Don has given to us uh Tom Jones the supermarket fines was 10 28.87 um one of the uh to go back to the late night theme um one of the kids certified mailed Dawn from North Carolina asking for the clip as she had never seen it before uh that was kind of a neat uh little piece now to go back to LA 85 you guys went to LA um you were talking about the show and its popularity people camped out all that kind of stuff Dave applauding you know or not not enjoying when people applauded too much La certainly wasn't a good place for that then because they went absolutely ape at that point um at this point you're there two years the momentum is just going more and more and more are you already feeling outside offers like are all of you as writers getting offered to go to other shows and things like that no no I I I I wasn't remotely uh interested in leaving yeah for Years also uh well what have you realize at a certain point oh Showbiz is in LA right you know and all that but no listen I uh uh after you know two years of doing The Simpsons which which was uh you know a great job I'm I'm grateful for but you know you do that for like two years and it's like I don't I don't know if spend 12 hours every day you know trying to think of of things for The Simpsons to say it it and it just it it it it does a number on your mind yeah coal miners in particular will will sympathize with with that story here but I'm I'm it it uh that was The Simpsons was a much harder job I didn't even consider uh leaving Letterman for you know at least five years yeah so that break now okay that's very interesting that you'd say that I appreciate the perspective very much we actually use the minor analogy on this show sometimes um and that's the whole reason the show exists uh is because you guys would literally be mining and finding like massive gold nuggets and diamonds casting them aside just because there's another show tomorrow night you got to keep mining we want to pick up some of those things we're doing a great job of that today after I've been there uh several years yeah you know there would be bits where they would go out in the hallway and walk through it for some reason or other and he would he would like things you know to say well while he's uh walking but yeah of course it's just the hallway and he's walked down at dozens of times and he wouldn't want to to uh be phony and put stuff there to make a joke about and so he he'd want it to be real so there was a I remember there was a photo up of the live at five the the newscast across the hall from us there's a photo up of them one one member of the team was uh Chuck Scarborough a newscaster who had like sort of a perfect head of blonde helmet hair so I I wrote and Dave did he walking by it he said like oh by the way when I go to my barber I just bring in a picture of Chuck Scarborough and tell him like this and you're very kind it was an okay joke I remember at the time patting myself on the back just in terms of right I actually thought of a joke a new joke for this hallway well along if you want to talk about Dave's record collection a little because this is whatever um I would the guy I don't know who was in charge of it frankly before me but the first year of the show but it felt to me to do it and um uh I actually uh it was different than it wasn't staring at a blank page the only way to do that in those days was to go down to uh used record stores vintage record stores in Greenwich Village yep and and just get out these box and just go through them go through them one at a time and uh just uh take hours to to find and then and then hours of listening I had a record player in the office and and just just listen to them and sometimes I'd dial it up from 33 to 45 yep just to be a little more efficient and uh it was it was uh it was it was very it was very much all right I am if I put the time in I'm going to find the few nuggets of gold in this almost dry riverbed yeah but I actually I liked getting out of the office and I I kind of liked uh it was just a different day instead of staring at a blank page right truffle hunting and I also just just uh the guys in the village who worked there I remember were these very amusingly Persnickety guys oh I know yeah the the music is Awesome with each other oh yeah and and I remember one of them said uh uh you know is this color peach and the other guy goes that is not Peach that has never been Peach that will never be Peach and I'm I just sort of filed that away set to my office mate Jerry Mulligan when I got back and you know for for years after we would occasionally say that that has never been Peach you know and that will never be Peach anyway uh going through those going through those and um you know I'd find something like uh oh Joan Collins giving uh you know life and health advice yeah there's got to be something on this you listen to the whole wrecking oh wait what was that what was that it was Jones saying uh uh you know as as a woman ages she needs less sleep uh 40 year old you know gets 77 hours sleep you know by 950 you make it by with his with six in Dave's joke I gave him was Joan of course has stopped sleeping all together okay but to go back to something you said earlier though that would be that's fun when you have a return moment with Joan Collins on Conan or on uh I think that's what I think that's how it originally played out but but or she comes on to again come on and make fun of herself just kind of like the Tom Jones things you were you were talking about earlier that's where you know Dave is actually setting a volleyball if somebody wants to to come up and say I want to be a good sport about it fantastic uh listen uh come on that's just me I'm not going to give my I'll I'll say in in our my or our mild defenses I just always I felt like especially in those early days just we were uh you know just lobbing these rocks in the middle of the night you know from our little clubhouse and like when we when we won our the enemy for the first time uh in I guess 1984 we go back you know you're walking by Bob Hope going bad down the aisle yep the next stage the next presenters were were the cast of The Love Boat I kid you not and uh you know just Gavin MacLeod just congratulations you know very nice man by all accounts and uh uh you're you know at the ball Governor's Ball afterwards people are there like Linda Evans from Dynasty you know and you just think like okay these These are these are the real Showbiz people we're we're Wise Guys out in the minor leagues we you know surely surely they can rush off our barbs sure in that current moment sure um you know they are but then you've got the people who are watching you the Gen xers like me who are like you know what we don't want Glam Rock we want Nirvana we want you and you guys were the ones that that we wanted you guys were the rock stars to us you guys were because you acted that way and you did throw those rocks from the clubhouse there was a whole generation of people who were like no these are the ones who we want to follow and and you're a you're a pioneer of that you're part of that you're every bit Eddie Vedder or Kurt Cobain uh to Comedy as as as okay look Dave was well okay but it's David again this is the this is well let me tell you uh I I've thought about it is is uh um that you know the show is like it is best it did sort of seem like a three-ring circus and and you do the anniversary shows and you put together the clips of just uh goofy stuff hap you know yeah you know velcro wall and the thrill Cam and and and you know just just crazy stuff happening the dancing waters and it would uh and it would seem like oh wow this show is a zany Carnival of fun but the the essential the the thing that made it all work was Dave's attitude was that the ring Master at the center of it you know paradoxically had mixed feelings about the circus yes not exactly mixed fit just that uh he obviously approved of the nonsense yeah and enjoyed it and yet he is not a zany thirsty performer himself no that that certain Reserve you know that and and I think that's you know other shows have come along you know called you know you're you're in the funny Zone yeah you're in the Fun Factory that that sort of thing oh boy that triggers a memory but Dave made it work oh boy uh do you remember the uh the summertime showcase what was it Dave's summertime laugh time Laugh Factory Dave Sunshine Laugh Factory yes that was uh Chris Elliot and Matt wickline and Sandy I think it was their notion uh it was it was one of the one-off theme shows it was back in the summertime Sunshine summer special yeah back in this yeah back in the 60s and 70s there was uh 85.

these summertime variety shows with with with some very lame comedy some music they weren't trying that hard they were just something to pass the time with at the the end of a long summer day and um uh so we did one and it fell to me to write the the comedy sketch and the idea for it was was something like you know let's look at the generation gap in the year 1999 which was then the distant future when we got Ken Berry you know from F Troop maybe already RFD to to guest host and he was game as can be and a nice man and it's just you know he's home from work everyone's wearing big triangular collars and Carol leafer played his wife and he's like oh yeah here's your Martini pillow your neighbor David Letterman's coming up the teleporter oh David Letter oh that moocher I wonder what he's going to borrow now you know it's okay it felt to me to write it and I just I really did start getting flop sweats for good reason early on just I I it cost me sleep for like a couple of days just like how do you do this how do you how do you put on bad writing yeah before an audience that is a very difficult tightrope walk and and uh uh and now the Simpsons did it like you could do that on SCTV and The Simpsons did do it on their uh Cory McClure hosted probably summertime you know or Simpson showcase spin-off it was yeah some Smile Time variety hour one of my funniest favorite bits The Simpsons ever did it was after my time uh where they did a lame skit where we've been working like beavers putting on the show have you wondered if we really were beavers their their clip shows had that feel to them yeah yeah definitely but they you know you you can you can do bad writing you know if but you can in front of a bat in front of a live audience so I you know we we got through it but uh that that that that's one I remember is this this is too hard but uh you know John Hartford performed on that it was the summertime Sunshine happy hour and it was in 1985.

yeah we got through it it was it wasn't as good as some of the other uh uh Team shows but I'll uh did you know something that I will say In fairness there's another side to the uh uh right the broad obvious joke I remember there was a viewer mail response somebody asked like I have a late night t-shirt any cleaning tips and uh Dave says oh well uh you know I guess uh you probably want to maybe watch uh uh washing it in in hot water because it might shrink uh boy I had that problem and he holds up one that's like the late night t-shirt this is big as a postage stamp yeah okay so I think of that and I think like well you know that that could to get a laugh all right that's pretty funny but you also think that's pretty that's awfully Broad and corny that could be in an Archie's comic joke book and I'm yeah and so so yeah okay so I put some addendum on he says like you know hey you know what do you think of that Paulie you cut the pollen we had a pre-tape of tiny Paul standing on his keyboard you know going like you know you know yeah I I wish I'd uh you know heard that before I took that hot shower by the way occasionally when I'd be explaining to Paul what I wanted him to do I intentionally lapse into and then you go and again you know and you go you know that very well sorry sir you would do Paul for Paul yeah yeah I just just forgetting myself anyway and then um El magory who would play Grant tinker and we could talk about that too uh mispronounce words mispronounced and called Dave Tom yeah uh he he uh uh you know Tom you know and he like gave gave Dave an award for you know for that classic piece of a visual comedy you know he gave him an award Okay so that was a way of you know covering my backside sort of like you know hey look we know this is corny you know we're we're done we're and all that you know we're we're hip and but the the fact is the T-shirt got a nice big satisfying laugh you know everybody was happy and then tiny Paul got an okay laugh and then a little smaller laugh and and I uh I left that sort of thing and you know don't don't you don't have to be funnier than funny don't don't you know don't be don't be so hip don't be such a big shot nothing you know nothing wrong with a good laugh but taking it to the next level then taking it to the next level then taking it to the next level where it gets maybe less less less less and then the last level is where sometimes the the big laugh is and and and you guys didn't happen this time yeah exactly what did uh I'm just looking with Elmer okay uh don Giller is happy that you mentioned Elmer yeah the humanities plaque he has a grant Tinker yeah that was that I love that bit just because he was a guy who worked in the office I think I uh people worked in the we we were you know as you said we were like a big family uh there weren't boundaries between the interns and the money people and the segment producers and then right and the unions for that matter too everybody was just all yeah it was due a genuinely yeah you had Mark Carson on your show and I'm like oh yeah he was a photographer at my wedding you know for example oh that's yeah it was very much that sort of you know Mark would you do this yeah sure your friend you know it was it was it was very much all that sort of thing and uh but anyway um yeah Elmer was just uh he had white hair and he had glasses and other than that you know Grand Tinker was very was handsome and Suave looking I just looked and sounded ordinary yeah you know if not even a little frumpy like yeah we always got to laugh right at the top of him saying Tom what Dave's name was and uh boy a bit that I had totally forgotten that was on the Letterman channel was somebody from the audience was getting some reward from the show you know presented by Grant tinker and what it was it was a bowl full of golf tees and Dave invited the guy to take a fist full of golf tees for the guy reaches in and I had forgotten this and Elmer says easy easy like you're taking too many and oh that was oh that that sort of thing would just kill me it's just just the notion of uh uh hey there it is Don Geller is holding up the humanities uh plaque A Fistful of golf tees that yeah I just love that easy no yeah thank you Don we did another bit where yay went up to the we sent Elmer up to the NBC commissary and uh he'd say what are you eating there and uh I got a ring ding Junior and uh what'd that cost you you know uh 3 45 and I'm gonna get out of water bills and yeah peel it off you know like it's on NBC great fun great great great fun uh uh just using people on the show uh yeah you really seem to appreciate that that uh oh we really strayed outside the uh the the home yeah people people who turned out to be good actors like uh Jimmy Fitzgerald who is the guy in the crew who just an older guy with a very gentle delivery and he would do technicians corner where he'd just answer questions and and uh the solutions were always using Firearms but I think those were all written by uh Joe toughlin and Sandy Frank who knew a lot about uh artillery I love taking a moment to single some of these guys out just just because uh things like there would be like an NBC bookmobile and if there was you know I've seen the scouts handbook uh uh be prepared and here's a special handbook for New York City Scouts kill or be killed flit around and because these names came up please like this is this is heaven this is a beautiful beautiful show I think if I'm ever going to do it this would appear to be the place outstanding anytime you like sir by the way standing invitation to come back whenever you want so yeah I'm I'm sure release the debris this is the place well well it it it it since you invited me I did you know sort of thought about it all weekend so I need to do this so I can think about something else that's good we are happy to be the receptacle yeah just everything everything I heard okay we're gonna end it right there uh I like I love long form okay so having the the conversations that we're having with these uh folks who worked with Lettermen that go on and on and on This Is My Jam this is what I love I love listening to it in podcasts uh I love how into the weeds we got uh with some of these things Jeff I mean oh the recall that was coming back and it was almost like uh certain people Don hates it when I use this term but it was like jazz we're just going all over the place and it was just such a beautiful conversation let me tell you a part two just as much in fact part two is a little bit longer than this one here I just appreciate Jeff Martin so much uh we've gone back and forth a few times since uh since shooting that episode um lots of good ideas I certainly want to get maybe him and O'Donnell on a on a um a call here and just let them go off and riff off each other as well if if that might work um or people like that just just people that that used to work together and have this uh camaraderie these amazing memories I just appreciate Jeff so so much I don't know that in that episode we did a hello daily shout out so let's do that uh the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only and that is Rupert G and the hello Deli Rupert in May uh over there on 53rd Street nothing within the womb of the Ed Sullivan Theater uh head on over if you're in New York go have some soup go have a sandwich go give Rupert a high five tell him Mike says hi and uh for those who would like to order Late Show with David Letterman merchandise you still can at the hello Deli go to hellodashdaily.com and uh and Order away mugs and shirts and all sorts of stuff Rupert stuff Letterman stuff it's a uh a consumer uh Wonderland uh on a very specific uh plane so anyway thank you so much for all of the uh all of the words all the stuff going on in the background um for the Letterman podcast I'm just having a blast doing this I haven't even more of a blast knowing other people are having a blast because of the the show that means so much to us here please join the Facebook group please like share subscribe here all that crap um that is another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisholm coincidentally I am Mike Chisholm thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants