Marilyn Sargent

You're watching the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisholm, endorsed by the Hello Deli. Yeah. Welcome to the Letterman podcast. My name is Mike Chisholm. We have got a good one for you today. Uh, I don't know that I would say that about any other uh of of the pod- I wouldn't say that, I should say, about any of the other podcasts that we have. I think I say that probably every single time. Uh, the ones I don't like are the ones that are just me. I like the ones with the guests. The today is a good guest. They're all good guests. Uh, god damn, how do I edify this one and make it seem special by not overshadowing everybody else. Um, they're all special. That's it right there. Jeremy Weiner. No relation to Stephen Weiner, by the way. Wouldn't that be cool? Like the uh the grandson, the legitimate grandson, the son, the I don't know. Uh, if but Jeremy Weiner, no relation. Uh, this the the spelling is different. Uh, or is it? Is that just to keep us off the scent? I don't know. All I know is it's another Weiner. Uh, and a writer, another writer who is a Weiner. Jeremy Weiner is phenomenal. He worked for The Late Show uh well over 15 years. And um just I you know, a researcher, um you know, segment producer, went to all sorts of small towns with Biff Henderson.

Um, by the way, might have some never mind. Shout out to James. James, how you doing? There you go. Anyway, uh nobody knows what that means until hopefully very soon. And in very soon, hopefully you'll know what that means. Uh, that being said, Jeremy, uh all sorts of fun stuff. Uh, Calvert DeForest was his handler for a while, too. Uh, you know, another Weiner who has worked with Calvert DeForest. Uh, just lots of really good things in this uh in this episode. I mean, he told so many stories. We set up the next time he's going to be on his next episode. We've already got a premise for it. Um it's going to be great. Uh the other cool thing is he is a fellow Kevin Smith aficionado. So, not only did he cut his teeth cut his teeth with Conan O'Brien actually, moved over to Late Show, stayed there till the end of the run, and then um you know, he's been doing some awesome stuff. We talk about a little bit about some of the things that he's working on now.

Um but, one of the things that he did was he was a judge for Kevin Smith's film festival in New Jersey, which I thought was really cool. He frequents some of the haunts that Kevin Smith made famous like the Quick Stop and some other things as well. Um I love that. If you don't know anything about Kevin Smith, you probably are not digging what I'm what I'm saying in this intro, but uh that's that's really it. I hope you all had a good holiday uh Christmas holiday season for those of you who partake. Uh my wife got me some pink Jordans, so there you go. I love them. They're fantastic. Uh met Lou Ferrigno. Played the Hulk. Met him over the holiday season, so that was kind of fun. That's for the podcast Good Luck With the Podcast we got there. And um looks like he's going to come on the Men's Mental Wellness Podcast. And when that happens, then you know, if he's got a Letterman story, so we might get some Lou Ferrigno stuff.

Um loved everything that the Letterman channel put out. I mean, uh like right now, big clap for Walter Kim and the team over at the uh at the Letterman YouTube channel. Um great stuff out. Lots of very, very good things. And I'll tell you this, uh the Darlene love love the love for Darlene love, that sounds a little less confusing, uh over this holiday season from the official channel, incredible. Really special stuff. Love that. Trying to get Brian Teta on because she Darlene Love was on The View and I want to talk to him about about Darlene Love while it's still fresh in the mind. Seeing if we can make that happen. Got lots of good things coming. You know what? I I said at the top of the the top of this intro that is it is a really really good episode. It is. They all are. Jeremy Wiener is just another friend, another brother from another mother, I feel like. I'll tell you this, I watched Bathtubs Over Broadway again over the holidays.

And there's a scene in it where um uh Steve Young, well, of course Steve Young, the whole movie's wrapped around the the Mighty Steve Young. Um Mighty Steve Young. There you go. Um if he was a pro wrestler, that might be his name right there. Although he would come up with something way more clever. Hey, let's ask him. We should ask Steve Young. Actually, yeah, let's do this right now. This will be fun, right? I think. Um Let's see here. Okay, there's Steve Young right there. And we'll do this. Hey Steve, it's Mike. Smiley face. Right now, we're shooting an intro for Jeremy Wiener's episode. And I decided to ask you a question real time as part of this intro. Period. If you had a pro wrestler name for yourself, what would it be? Question mark. My vote is Mighty Steve Young. Period. What say you? Question mark. Send. All right. So, we sent that to Steve Young. Um and we'll see what happens in the next intro for the next show if we have an answer. All right?

Kind of a way that we can go chronological order on this thing. Or who knows, maybe this maybe the other episode comes out first. No, this episode's going to come out first. We'll see what happens. Anyway, when Steve answers, we will let you know. Now, I watched Bathtubs Over Broadway, Steve Young, uh the movie of course wrapped around him. And then there's a scene where he's interacting with Lee Ellenberg and Joe Grossman and Jeremy Wein and I got to tell you, holy crap, does that movie ever have more weight? If you really want to go down a Letterman rabbit hole, watch the Joe Grossman episode, watch the Lee Ellenberg episode, watch this episode, and then watch Bathtubs Over Broadway. And um like the scene where Steve says goodbye to Joe Grossman, it it broke me up. Like it's like he's saying goodbye to him on the last day for the last time. He's like, "Oh, Joe, you're my little buddy."

Which is like, "Oh my god, I'm crying." Um thank god I can, you know, send messages to both these guys anytime and we can still talk to them. Uh very grateful to do that. Jeremy Wein is part of that crew. He is and he's got some great stories. And I'm just now just messing with you. I'm just teasing you. Um let's get to it. The Letterman podcast brought to you by uh the good folks at the Hello Deli, Rupert Jee and May Chin at the Hello Deli. hellodashdeli.com. If you want to get any Late Show with David Letterman merchandise or Rupert shirts or, you know, maybe he'll prepackage uh a bagel um or something for you. I don't know. You want to get food? You know, less efficient but pretty darn cool. And you support the good people at the Hello Deli. Um I'm just very very grateful for everybody here and uh this is a lot of fun. Without further ado, I bid to you my conversation with Jeremy Wein here on the Letterman podcast.

Oh, yeah. Work for Letterman. When did you start? Like when was your first inkling there? Um I uh my first I interned at the at the show. I got my internship in the summer of '98. Okay. Yeah. And so, it was the summer of '98. Um prior to that the previous year I'd interned at uh Late Night with Conan O'Brien. So, I did back I did back-to-back late night internships, which is kind of rare. And I sort of got the vibe that like why are you doing another late night internship when I went there, but you know, Dave was always the guy for me. Do you know what I mean? Like I felt I I loved Conan. He's was awesome, but I would just remember being in my bedroom when I was a you know, when I got my first TV in my room and it would every night before bed let's watch the top 10 list, go to bed and get up and go to school the next day, you know? It was like such a ritual for me, you know? Okay, what year were you born?

1977. Okay, I'm a '76 baby. So, so um I I'm fascinated by this. Like when we had Grossman on not too long ago too, I I I said this because I was such a fan like you when I was a kid watching these adults act you know, childishly for lack of a better term but silly. They were adults acting silly and it was a cool experience cuz I stayed with I stayed with Dave the whole way and it was so cool to see his staffers literally morph into people who were more my age. Like I I loved that. Yeah. You know, being from Western Canada, I never had the you know, I didn't even have the idea that I could go and intern for this show that I loved so much and then maybe I could actually work there. When did that first occur to you? And did you try to intern with Dave first and then and then and then went over to 30 Rock after that or was it the same time? How did it work for you?

I grew up in Northwestern Pennsylvania in Erie Pennsylvania, which is right between Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, like right in the middle. Yep. And um I ended up going to Syracuse because I I felt I was at a car dealership when my parents were buying a car when I was a kid and the Syracuse was playing on the TV when they left me in the waiting room. I I fell in love with Syracuse basketball and that became my thing. I always wanted to go to Syracuse, and so I applied and was lucky enough to get in. And um so I went to Syracuse to study um sports broadcasting. Oh, wow. And I cuz I was a big Bob Costas fan, and when I got there I found out like Bob Costas had gone there but dropped out to go do minor league hockey games in like St.

Louis, and you know, the broadcast journalism program really wasn't my bag. So I started doing like the television radio film program. That's what I transferred and changed my major to. And I started working at the campus TV station. It was called UUTV. I linked up with a bunch of guys who were doing a late night show called Coast to Coast. It was hosted by Jack Helmuth, and there was a guy named Rob Le Plant who directed it. And um Jack had interned at The Tonight Show uh out in LA, and then he had interned at Conan, and um that's when I sort of got the real late night bug. Like that's where I had my first writers room meeting. It was in Watson Hall at Syracuse University with like the guys who wrote for Coast to Coast. It was like the coolest thing coming in as a freshman to be able to join a a late night show. And um Yeah. Yeah, so I ended up interning at Conan uh in the summer of '97. Yep.

And after that um you know, that's where I get in? How'd you What How did you Did you just apply for it? Did you just luckily got it? Well, as I said, Jack Helmuth who was at um at Syracuse with me had interned there the summer before, and I didn't even know a lot about internships or anything like that. Yeah. So Syracuse had like a you know, a building that focused like a the building on campus that was you know, you can go and look up all these different internships that were available. And so I applied to a bunch of different places. I think I applied to like Howard Stern's E! Show and a few different other places. So I went to the city and made like a weekend trip, you know, and I interviewed on Monday at like three or four different places. Yep. And um ended up getting the Conan offer. I think Jack, you know, was obviously help instrumental probably putting in a word for me there. And so each step of the way there was always someone I met that sort of helped steer the path.

Do you know what I mean? Um, like when I was at Conan, there was a cue card guy named Mark Lucas who did cue cards at Letterman with Tony Mendez. And so when I applied at Letterman, you know, I think he was nice enough to put in a word, you know, with Janice Penina when I was uh applying for that whole process. So it was just interesting how it sort of the chips just, you know, fell into place. They sure did. Um, what what was your role for Coast to Coast? Was it Was it Was it literally PA starting to learn this stuff? Uh, you know, awesome. Right when you got in, I was able to start um there weren't a ton of people that were as enthusiastic, I don't think, to do this kind of work. And so I was producing, helping to produce that show um my freshman and sophomore year.

It was pretty wild. It was um you know, it was like, you know, trying to book the star uh players in the basketball team. It was trying to, you know, find a a rabbi and a Santa Claus for the Christmas episode. It was all kinds of stuff. And as a freshman in college, you're like, what is happening? But I just remember it being like, you know, immensely just to be a part of something like that, you know? And the show had all these um like Bob Costas did a cold open because he was on campus giving a tour or, you know, giving a an interview to some students. Like Andy Richter did a segment cuz Jack had interned at the uh at at Conan. So it was really a cool show that had We used to shot a lot of pre-taped bits and, you know, it was really neat. Oh, man. And all the while still a Letterman fan while you were there? Oh, for sure. It was one of those things like I made sure in the dorm, you know, we stopped down and watched, you know, the top 10 and then we watched Conan's, you know, as much of Conan as we could. So. Yeah, and that was that was me, too. Like by '98, you know, Dave had had had ascended, you know, past out of the uh out of the NBC, he became what I, you know, the shorthand on this show that we call powerful Dave.

Um and and he's at that point he's got this freight train of momentum. And the one-two punch, I love the one-two punch of of of of your guys's years. In fact, I would probably even give it the edge. I loved Letterman Ferguson, but back then Letterman O'Brien was my years worth of every like ritual almost every single night watching those those guys. Um Yeah, when I was at Conan seeing just just seeing like, you know, I was a script intern. So, that was my first introduction to what it was like with writers like professional comedy writers and it was awesome and it was like, you know, every time there was a change in the script, I was the guy that had to go bring it to the different departments. So, I got to know everybody on the staff and then like right before the show if they're doing a clutch cargo and Robert Smigel's there, I'm in the dressing room as he's doing rewrites and then I'm running them to Q cards and to Jonathan Groff who was the head writer at the time and it was just, you know, it was awe-inspiring cuz you're just seeing all these great comedy professionals and you I'm just like this is incredible. So.

The excitement of being in that environment, um very few things like that excitement. Just that energy that's there. Um you know, knowing that that that that you're starting a show. Let me ask you this. I know with you guys that at Late Show, you guys ran it like it was a live show. That was kind of the you had that energy up there like it was live. Was Conan like that as well by that point? Yeah, I mean it was it was the energy and like backstage before the show, it was we're going to try to start as close on time as possible and you know, just seeing him backstage, you know, he would you know, bouncing around with all that energy rehearsing the cards, you know, standing there waiting for changes.

I remember being there in the control room the night Norm Macdonald was there with Courtney Thorne-Smith and he did the famous Chairman of the Board riff and just it was like one of those things I'm like this is that yeah, yeah, it was it was one of those that was that was that year and by then, you know, Conan the uncertainty had worn off I think for them and they knew that they had something that was really cooking it was good. People were starting to really you know, find it and and like it and dig it. And so there was like a confidence that was developing there, you know, and it was just really great to be a part of so fun. And seeing those moments like with Norm, when you see the host of a show genuinely surprised by something that happens, it's just so great cuz you can see the difference in the reactions. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's almost like they break. It's it's it's like an actor who breaks in a scene. Yeah.

Talk show mode is on, but suddenly talk show mode is off because yeah, no, I And that moment in particular for those of you haven't like we've talked about a lot about Norm Macdonald on this show. We talked about with Steve O'Donnell and who worked with him and other other folks who worked with Norm. He's got such a special place in our heart. Um It's got to be one of my favorite moments of the final six weeks is the Norm, you know, Norm coming back. It was just That might be the best stand-up on a late-night talk show set in history as far as I'm concerned. It was just the it was the perfect it was hilarious and touching. It was just one of those things I just felt like watching history, you know, it was just so cool. Yeah, I I could not agree more. For those for those who who don't know the joke we're talking about, just just Google, you know, Conan Norm Macdonald Chairman of the Board Or Andy Richter Smith maybe if you need to. Yeah, yeah.

It's one of those moments. It's just so funny. It was just so so wild. Yeah. Um did you did you cross paths with Norm over the years quite a bit because obviously there's a lot of cross-pollination there. His adoration of Dave who was who was on the show. Did you cross paths with some of these folks or or as a writer did you you know, kind of isolated from from from those guys? Um Norm, you know, I would before I was a writer, you know, I I started the show on the staff in '99. I became a writer in 2004. So I started doing stuff in the talent department as a researcher and then I was a writer's researcher for a number of years. And so I crossed paths with a lot of different people. I didn't really get, you know, the I didn't really interact a lot with Norm in my younger years.

I was more dealing with like Eric Estrada or like James Earl Jones is on the show doing a top 10 list for New Year's Eve and I remember being in the dressing room downstairs and he's just in a in a dress shirt and his underwear and I had to bring him a cheese platter while he rehearsed the top 10. Like I was dealing with like the comedy guests that would come on for the comedy segments. So it was like, you know, Carrot Top is in a you know, we wanted him to be on for some Act Five segment. I remember he got stuck in traffic. So I had to run down to uh, Eighth Avenue to run him down so he could be in the green room or something, you know, so Dave could, you know, and he was a good sport cuz Dave was just going to mock him for some nonsense, you know, so yeah.

It was pretty fun. I loved I loved those um, those spontaneous moments that, you know, they're obviously they're they're well-crafted and well-scripted to look so spontaneous, you know, why is you know, why is Carrot Top suddenly just randomly showing up? But you guys uh, were were were so good at that. I um, hearing you talk about that, you went so your your first job there was in the the research department? That's where you started? after my internship Okay. So in I interned in '98. Um, Lee Ellenberg was the research assistant who hired me um, as as an intern and so I got to know all those guys. I was on that floor with the Stangles and uh, you know, Carter Bays and Craig Thomas. You started on 14? On 14, yeah. It was I mean I did that round robin interview process where you interview in all the departments. Yep. And luckily I was able to um, intern for them. It was an awesome summer.

Uh, I got to be on the show actually. They did a segment called Dave hangs with the interns. Yeah. And uh, it was a it was like one of those things where you know, he brings me out for like four seconds, asks my name and then kicks me off. They put a clock up, you know, it was like a five-second countdown and I was like, this is bonkers, you know, so I was so fired up to be there and they really embraced me. I was really, you know, thrilled to get to know all those guys. So then when I graduated, they had a job opening in research cuz Tommy had moved up to writer and then his replacement came and then his replacement was leaving. Right. And um, I got the job in research. So I did that for six months. Uh, I submitted a packet to um It was a like a five-page research packet on Ricky Schroder. There was like 12 candidates for the job and he had just taken over on NYPD Blue to be Sipowicz's partner. And so, we had to do a So, we had to do a research packet over the weekend and turn it in on Monday.

And you got to write jokes and questions and stuff like that. And so, I submitted that and luckily I got that job. And I did it for 6 months and then the writers researcher job opened and I was able to jump up there because one of the people who I worked with a lot as an intern was Jill Leiderman, who was the writer segment producer, who went on to be the EP of Jimmy Kimmel Live, who's awesome. Absolutely. And I basically learned, you know, you know, everything I know about producing comedy and how to be sort of how to treat talent and how to, you know, execute these segments from her. And it was awesome. And so, as the writers researcher, she was basically the one who said, you know, come up work with me. And that was sort of the partnership we had for a number of years going forward. And it was awesome cuz she's just the best. Uh I we've heard that a lot from a lot of different people both with the camera on and off. Jill is somebody who I I I would love to pick the brain of here. Um So, you research was rapidly changing for you uh at that time with the with the rise of the internet. Like I mean, Yeah. you know, we we talked about this with a few with a with with a few folks.

Callison, I think is the first person we talked to him about. It's like researcher back in the day was a very different gig than researcher now. Um I remember I was I was with um Dave Puner and Josh Wein Traub in research. And we were looking at some of the old research memos that used to come out. And they were maybe one page, two pages. And by the time we were there, you know, sometimes they'd be up to 10, 12 pages if a guest hadn't been on in a long time. And so, you'd still send interns over to the broadcast center to get the most recent magazines, but you were starting to use the internet more. You know, you're really scouring the papers and stuff like that. And then as I moved up to 14, you know, it became a little bit easier to to figure out how to execute certain things. Like for example, you know, I used to have to help figure out what towns we were going to for Biff Henderson's America.

And the internet was like such a an instrumental component of figuring out, well, what's a small town we can go to in the middle of nowhere that still has some businesses and it finally like you could use, you know, Yahoo's, you know, or whatever it was at the time, AOL. I don't know what we're using. Yeah, exactly. And you could sort of click on and it was like nearby restaurants and you could say, "Okay, oh, this town has 480 people and there's a restaurant 2 mi away." So, it gives you ideas of what you can do in those towns when you're going to go do those segments. I'm I'm fascinated to hear where every staff member came from, especially the ones who promoted from within. I love the Pants culture of promoting from within and so many people like, you know, going from you know, a a talent researcher, you know, writing research full-fledged writer. You know, guys like like Alan Berg and some of these other people, you know, knew they wanted to be comedy writers.

At what point did you know you wanted to be a comedy writer? Is this beforehand or is this you being swept up in the culture of everything and realizing, "No, I can go and do this."? It was a combination of things. It was learning that you can, you know, seeing up close and personal what it was like to be a writer. So, I you know, at Conan and at Letterman, seeing that environment. And I remember being at I was at Conan and I was making copies cuz I was a script intern. And I went to the copier and there was some papers on the copier before um Yeah, as I was making the copies, I found there was some papers that were there already. So, I took them off the copier and I looked and it was like a list of everyone on the staff and it was a breakdown of uh like uh salaries. And I realized, "Wait a second. Wait a second. You can make You can make money doing this. Do you know what I mean? Like I didn't understand the economics of it. Do you know what I'm saying? I was like, wait a second.

You Oh, so you can afford to live in New York City and do this, you know? It was one of those things that was just like, you know, I'm a 20-year-old kid and I'm like, oh, this is all starting to fall into place. You can actually earn a living doing something you love, being funny, writing jokes. Yeah. And uh Yeah, it was that was the sort of the moment I sort of figured it out. But then it was always important to me, too, you can't be so aggressive. You know, you can want to write, but like it was really important for me when I was doing these jobs like researcher, um you know, writers researcher or whatever, to to do the the work first. Yeah.

Be good at the work, you know, and don't make with the writing the priority. That opportunity will That time will come. Do you know what I mean? They'll Someone will say to you, "Hey, do you want to submit something here? Go ahead." Don't be so aggressive. You know, try to pick and choose your spots. You know what I mean? So, make sure you do the work of the day. the voiceover person, find the footage that the writer needs for their piece. Right. get everything everything taken care of. And then when someone says, "Hey, if you don't If you have some downtime, you want to write top 10s, you know, go for it." And that was was one of the things that Stangle was really great about. Justin and Eric Stangle, they basically said, you know, eventually it was by all means when you have finished your work, you can submit some stuff, submit top 10s, whatever. Yeah. And it was it was great. That's really cool. I want to have them on and actually, you know, I haven't met either of them yet. I actually I would love to have them on conceptually, I'd love to have them both both on at the same time. I think that would be kind of fun.

Oh, it'd be great. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. They'd you know, play back and forth and all that kind of stuff. I think that'd be a kind of a unique episode. I'm sure they'd be game, for sure. But we've we've bounced around a little bit. I got to ask this. So, you're an intern. Uh I want to know what your jobs were like when, you know, when you were an intern, the things that you would do. Uh but I I mean, you know, you threw a big, beautiful uh pitch right across the plate there. Was that the very first time you met Dave on camera? Oh, yeah, for sure. That's the first time you met David Letterman. You're doing a segment on the show. I remember Yeah, I remember Rodney Rothman was head writer at the time and he pulled me in the office and he's like, "We want to do this thing to be Dave hangs with the interns." And I remember it was like cued up and ready to go and I was in the wings for like maybe two or three days.

And Jill was great and she was coaching me, but it got cut and it kept getting bumped. And I was like, "Oh." So I And then I started to realize like, "Oh, this is one of those things There's a lot of things ready to go that aren't ever going to see the light of day just for time or whatever." Pre-tapes that are sitting there that may or may not get used. even live elements. You'd even book actors and have a whole piece ready to go and something will happen that'll spur Dave's curiosity and it'll just take the show in a different way and you know, it'll bump to the next day or whatever. But then on the third day I came out and that was it. He just said, you know, "Nice to meet you. Where are you from?" I think I said my name and I said I was from Erie, Pennsylvania and he goes and the clock expired and he kicked me off the stage. It was It was really funny. So, okay, how Like, did your mind melt? Like, okay, that What a surreal way to meet David Letterman. You know, you've been worshipping him for all these years whatever and then, you know, working for him, but working for him does not guarantee you're ever going to ever even be in the same room with the guy.

Um and then suddenly you're doing a segment that's going to be on TV. Like, are you calling home and saying, "Hey, everybody in Pennsylvania, guess what? Your boy's going to be on TV tonight." Yeah. You're Yeah. I You're making a lot of call You It's just one of those things You You want to actually So the the other thing you have to worry about is even if you get on the show during the taping, right? You have to make sure you make it to the air version, yes. Right? So it's one of those things you're always calling and you're always hedging, you know? It's like, "Hey, this could happen." You know what I mean? If it doesn't, it's okay. Yeah. But there's a a chance it could happen. So yeah, that was It was a lot of fun. It It definitely was mind-blowing and you know, just being backstage with the music and it's freezing cold. Yep. And the uh you know, the audience But then once you're out there, you just sort of laser focus in on you know, I didn't have much to do. So, it wasn't like, you know, I just had to walk out there and sit and not, you know, pass out. So, uh but it was it was it was fun.

Uh so so I mean, again, so many of these we just had Lee on and and I mean, you know, he's he's he's paged for 5-6 years, right? So, you know, you ask him, how many episodes did you see? And it's like countless episodes that he saw. All these magic moments where he was actually in the room as a staffer. Yeah. But but then, you've got the exact opposite as well. Folks who who show up on 14 and they don't even necessarily go into the theater very often. Um did you see a lot of uh either as an intern or in the early years as a researcher, did you see any of the stuff that was making it on air? Did you watch the show uh while you were working there? Like like it's just such an interesting um that's such an interesting thing to me, that situation. Yeah. There was um there were a few there was a lot of opportunities to do that.

There were um like when you're working at in the research department, you're one of the people that often get pulled for comedy segments to be extras in the background. Yeah. So, Jill would call down and be like, if you're not we you know, working on your packet at the moment, can you come down to the stage and just be in the background of this, you know, quick pick up we're shooting or this, you know, quick little sketch we're shooting? Right. So, a lot of times you get to go down and be a part of it in that way and then you get to watch on the show later. Right.

to be a far more involved, you know, when I became the writers researcher. So, after the morning stuff that I was doing, which was like, you know, booking voiceover artists, it was helping to find footage for comedy segments, it was uh you know, a a bunch of other different tasks. We would do things before the show. Like, for example, Jill and I would go downstairs uh to help uh find audience members for Know Your Current Events or um uh Stump the Band. We'd have We'd go out and interview people or um you know, like sometimes I'd have to walk Calvert DeForest around uh when he came back on the show for a while. And so he would for I think maybe 6 months, maybe a year, he would come out during the monologue and just interrupt it like every night. Yeah. Yep. And so I was like his sort of you know, wrangler. You know, he would go out into that alleyway and I'd make sure he got got to you know, to where he had to go. Like before the show. I remember there's one story I've told a couple of times, but before the show Calvert had to go to the restroom. And this was in the year 2000.

So it was it was the guests that night were Crosby, Stills and Nash and Al Gore, I think because it was election season. Wow. So it was a weird night there because Secret Service is all over the place. You know, there's bomb-sniffing dogs. There's you know, this iconic band rehearsing and Calvert, he has to go to the bathroom, which is right across the from the sound effects booth under the stage. Yep. So I take him from the alley under the stage to the bathroom. I'm waiting outside the door. I think I'm going to make it small talk with like Gary Kiefel, who's the sound effects guy, who did all the glass crash sounds and everything. Yep. Next thing I know, four Secret Service agents come down the hallway and sort of push me aside and then I see Al Gore, who goes right into the bathroom while Calvert's in the bathroom. And all I hear is Calvert's scream and I just see Al Gore walk back out and I'm just standing there like what just happened? Like you know, Calvert I guess didn't lock the door and someone told Al Gore where the bathrooms were across from sound effects.

So it was you know, it was I saw there's just some insane stuff, you know, like one night I think you talked to Steve Young, right? You said? Yeah, oh a couple of times, absolutely. Yeah, Steve had Steve like the writers sometimes are my best friends and sometimes they created massive headaches, you know, like he pitched we do a Civil War reenactment on 53rd Street. Right? With two, you know, you have two different sides, you have, you know, different guns. There was like they were going to fire a cannon, right? And so it was my So it was Jill found the people and it was one of those things I had to help wrangle them all that day. Yeah. And Jack Hanna was on the show that night who he brought a water buffalo, but the water buffalo couldn't be near the cannon, so we had to move the water buffalo around the corner. And then in rehearsal um we didn't shoot the big cannon because they didn't want to waste the I don't know ammunition or whatever. Sure.

And um but then the actors who were they didn't want to they didn't want to pretend to die because they were on TV and they wanted to be on TV as much as possible. But the whole point of a Civil War reenactment is some people have to get shot and you know, and it was just insane. And then we did another show. Steve Young. Let's let's make From the mind of Steve Young. I I I could I could be wrong, but I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty sure it was Steve Young. And then I remember during the show just everyone is shooting their rifles or muskets or whatever and then the cannon goes off and it's just insane and it reverberates throughout the entire neighborhood. And then it got so smoky with this it was just, you know, I saw a lot of crazy stuff. Uh and and and again, I love I love talking to the folks who helped put this stuff together. I mean, you and I could do an entire show just on the writings that we haven't even gotten to the writing stuff, but this is the stuff.

Like Lee and I were talking about him as a page and I know that we could do an entire episode of him as a as a page. Yeah. You guys the logistics of putting all these things together, you know, the I I I watched recently um uh they they they they they they recapped Remember the cannon that was supposed to shoot a pumpkin across the across the Hudson to New Jersey? You know, just the logistics of that and and I love when things um you know, real time came into the show when it came to the logistics of things, you know, that cannon or the night where they talked about playing the Eagles. uh You know, I loved I loved that episode so much. cannon were you were you talking about the cannon and how it got pushed to the second show and it got dark? Yep. Okay, yeah, yeah. And you couldn't see it and then it became how much does Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, that was just it was crazy. Yeah.

And and to me like I love that our and I say our cuz we're we're we're both Gen Xers. Our Tonight Show was that as opposed to my dad's Tonight Show which was Johnny and all the glitz and glamour and all that. I love that that was our Tonight Show like Yeah. Yeah. And and you were part of the logistics of some of these things. That to me is just Do you have any other Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. What was your question? No, no, I was going to say do you have any other like logistics stories like that? Like that that Civil War reenactment, that kind of stuff there. Like do you have any other stories like that before, You know, we it was we like for example, for me I did a lot of traveling, right? So I would go and help be like sort of the field producer for like Biff Henderson's America segments, right? Yeah. So like I would go it would be like a director who would go and it would either be Randy Grossack or Jessica Santini and and a writer would go and Biff would go.

But you know, you know, I was just learning on the job at the time. So for example, you see Biff driving that Winnebago all the time, but that's only in when the camera's rolling. When the camera's not rolling, Jeremy's driving the Winnebago, right? So you know, when we were in the first time I ever did I think was like Calhoun, Missouri and I was I was driving the Winnebago or actually I think the it was the first time I was driving this very big Winnebago. I backed it right into a ditch like within 10 minutes of driving it, you know what I mean? It was ridiculous.

Um Okay, hold on, let's go back just just let's pick that for a second. Yeah. You're in your you're in your early 20s Yeah. and it's okay, yep, we're you're flying out here, here's your plane tickets, that kind of thing. Oh, we get you land. Okay, kid, do you know how to drive a Winnebago? No, you're about to. Like, and then you jump behind the wheel of a Winnebago. Is that Is that it? Yeah, and then you're driving and you're responsible for getting the whole crew in the Winnebago to the location. So, here's another example. We did this We did a uh Defending the America in uh I was thinking about this the other day. It we It was in Whiting, Maine, right? And I was talking It was Chris Harris was the writer. And they wanted to do a joke. It was, you know, the joke was Biff was going to go on a lobster vessel. You know what He's going to go on a lobster boat. He's going to pull up a lobster trap, and in the trap is going to be uh an AOL CD uh because those were everywhere at the time, okay?

And then the joke was going to be, "Oh god, these things are everywhere, right?" So, this is my first time doing this sort of thing. So, I'm like, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to call a authentic lobsterman. I'm going to set this up. We're going to go out with a lobster vessel. We're going to put the CD in the thing. And we're going to shoot the joke, right? So, I call the guy. He goes, "Awesome. We'll take you out in the boat. You have to meet us at 3:30 in the morning, and we'll be back by sundown." Because they're going to go out lobster fishing all day. And that was the first time I realized I was I realized, "Wait a second. I got to think this through. I got to figure out What does it mean to produce this joke? Do you know what I mean?" And so, you know, I stopped down, thought about it for a second.

I called a a lobster restaurant in the nearby town, and I just said to the guy, "You don't happen to have a like a boat that could take us" He's like, "Of course." So, within 20 minutes, we were on the guy's boat in the harbor. He He put the CD in a trap and dropped it. So, it wasn't as um organic and natural, do you know what I mean? But it was one of those things I was learning to produce the comedy on the fly uh and saving us 12 hours in the on a boat for one joke, do you know what I mean? So, you're just sort of learning as you go a lot of times, you know? And that happened like, you know, um we did a live show in Bosnia uh for a the USO, and so I got to fly over to Bosnia with Biff, and we did the top 10 with soldiers. And so, you know, I've been to Europe a couple of times and both of them with the show. Once was to a military base in Germany, and once was to Bosnia, which was wild. So.

You went to Ramstein? Yeah, we did a top 10 with some troops there, which was really cool. Wow. And then we did the show it was Christmas show, I think, with the USO and it was like Ernie Banks was there, Al Franken was there, the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, Biff was there, and so we did a whole taping of the show. Uh it was pretty fun. That's um that's spectacular. Did you go to any sporting events with Biff as well? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um yeah, I did, you know, Super Bowls, uh we did um World Series. Uh and then as things transitioned, as I was a writer, so as once I became a writer, I became the writer on the pieces. Yep. But before that, before I became a writer, so up to 2004, I would be sort of the uh field producer on those pieces. Yep. A field producer for David Letterman, and that is a that is a that's a badge right there.

Like you think about I mean, I don't know if there's any I mean, Steve Allen did man on the street and all that kind of stuff, but I mean, David Letterman's remotes, I mean, what they what they were and what they were the standard of them all the way to the end. Mhm. Um you know, phenomenal. Can you like is it is it weird now looking back going I I can't believe I was one of the guys that helped create those moments? Yeah, it feels it it feels weird. You know, it's all a blur some of a lot of it's a blur, but then there's some moments that really stand out, and then, you know, obviously getting to work with everybody at the show was such a great experience, and I have so many, you know, really positive memories, you know, I spent, you know, the formative years of my professional life there. So, it was really you know, positive and such a great looking back, it's really cool.

And sometimes I try to you know, talk to my kids about it now and just sort of you know, share some anecdotes, and it's just it feels like a different life sometimes, you know? How old are your kids?

Uh my oldest is a senior in high school, and my youngest is a sophomore in high school. So, we've been spending a good a good amount of time traveling this last year, sort of checking places out, and uh getting ready for uh you know, that whole process next year. So, it's going to be fun. Oh, that's fantastic. I am back to the producing those moments uh those things. Was there anything that you guys ever did that got cut that you were like, "Oh, I wish they would have aired that. That was a really cool package." Cuz you you know, you alluded to it earlier, and I mean, we've heard legends of uh of of these some of these these comedy pieces that just never made the show for whatever reason. Yeah. Anything that you can remember off the top of your head? I'm trying to remember pieces that got cut. I don't know. I mean, I mean, I remember Tom Ruprecht had The Late Show the Movie that we ended up shooting a ton of awesome pieces for that never aired.

Yeah. Um I know there was some off the top of my head I can't think of anything, but I know there was I know there there are so many. So, I will have to save that for another time. Okay. Well, and that's Or if one comes to mind as we're talking, I'll I'll definitely jump in with it. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that, too. And and I mean, you know, this is something that I I'm I I don't know what I don't know that I'm quite a mosquito, but I'm probably a bit of a housefly in my annoyance level to Walter Kim. And and this is the kind of stuff that I mean, as as the box kind of slowly opens back up again, and and and it's so beautiful to see all this official stuff happening. You know, these are these are the archives that would be it would be really fun to open some of those archives, stuff that was never aired, and and and things. So, it's it's good that we're talking about this. I I just find this this stuff endlessly fascinating. Yeah, for sure.

So, okay. You become Okay, actually, no. First, I mean, obviously, the first thing you got on on the air was your 5 Seconds with Dave. But do you remember your very first uh any whether it was it was something that you just submitted or what as a writer do you remember the first thing that you got on TV? Oh, that I got on TV. Wow. I'm sure it's a top 10 joke, but I I I might have it. You know, I have a I have a box up in the attic that has all kinds of stuff in it that I should next I should bring it down at some point and we'll go through it. But I remember things I have in there I I remember I have we did a top 10 list with astronauts in space. Uh and it was they threw pencils at the camera in space. And so you saw the Late Show pencil floating through the air, you know? And I remember afterwards the astronaut sent me a note saying, you know, thanks so much for coordinating this. And it had two of the pencils that were in outer space. So somewhere up in the attic there's like a a Late Show pencil in like a little case that has like space dust on it. That's been to space and back. So yeah, there's some, you know, And I'm sure I have other weird things, too. Right there. Are you the dude that coordinates that? Okay, yeah, it's going to go up in the shuttle. Let's get these guys some pencils. Let's make sure we FedEx it to them.

Yeah, see that was the thing like so when I was working with Jill, Jill would be Jill would she she was A-list in the you know, she would handle all of the the big celebrities and I would handle sort of more, you know, transport logistics, other people. Like I was the guy who had to like we had a sumo wrestler on once and I had to help wrap him in his little uh you know, underwear. Yeah, exactly. So or like is this anything? That was the thing I had to deal with for many years of, you know, looking at acts and booking them and bringing them in and rehearsing with those guys. So um yeah. So she would have sent the pencils to the astronauts that went up there cuz I mean it's not like you just get Late Show pencils anywhere. You guys would have had to coordinate that. I remember having many conversations with an awesome guy his name was like Bill Wallish from Colorado and he really was instrumental in getting it done. I might have sent the pencils, but then that might have been something that was like uh props or scenic had to handle just through that chain of command. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

So, it was one of those things like I would sort of put in the request, but I wouldn't have to necessarily ship it or whatever, you know. These are the types of things as well that on the show that we wanted to talk about, too. Like, you know, okay, this is a coffee mug unless it was from this and this play unless it was like a um uh a weekend Late Show coffee mug, then it then it was a prop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They all had different rules, and there were different different departments did different things, and you did not encroach on those things. Yet, at the same time, you had this entire Worldwide Pants family where, you know, it didn't matter if it was Pat Farmer or who you know, the guy with the deli around Rupert, you know, like it's such a um it's so unique. It's so unique. another part of the learning curve is just figuring out what's the right order, who do you ask for what, and how do you approach it the right way.

And the thing is, you know, my goal was just to sort of be as respectful as possible and try to learn everything uh and do it by the book. And that way, you know, no one felt like you're stepping on their toes or you were going, you know, uh staying, you know, you're out of your lane. So, I was just doing my best to stay in my lane, uh do the best job I could. And then when I could help more, you know, like for example, when we were on these remotes, it was just a real skeleton crew. So, it was a lot of like I would have props in my backpack or, you know, we would do different things. Or with Biff, you know, we would have little cue cards for him or something like that every once in a while or stuff like that. So, it it changed a little bit on those in those situations.

Uh I imagine in those situations as well, it would be a lot of get in, get out. You didn't get a chance to see a lot of the places that you were, you know, you got to business and then you went back because of the breakneck speed of of the production, I would assume, right? Or were there times where you would stay Oh, go ahead. No, I I was going to say um there was one instance Yeah, it was usually get in get out because you just had to get back to work. There was one time when uh I was going down with Biff. We were going to do a live shoot in Miami on the beach in Miami Beach. And Biff was going to have a um metal detector. And during the show he was just going to look for stuff with the metal detector, which I thought great, this will be perfect. Biff and I get to go down to Miami Beach. I remember we got there, we had dinner. We were at an outdoor restaurant and Mel Brooks was like two tables over. And I just remember sitting I just remember like being really nervous. And I remember Biff and Mel having like a little exchange and it was just like the coolest thing to be witnessing it. And we were supposed to fly right back. Um but Dave got shingles.

And the bit got canceled. So then Biff and I ended up having to stay like an extra day cuz we weren't sure what was going to happen. Right. And so and we didn't have any extra clothes. So I remember it was like me and Biff in Miami going to like the Gap to buy, you know, another shirt to wear. I don't know, it was just, you know, things like that. That was like the kind of the only time we got an extra day to hang out really, you know. Cuz it was usually after you shoot like a Super Bowl or whatever, you're coming right back. Or in a lot of cases towards the end you'd feed the footage back. So like the AD or the director who was there would facilitate getting the footage fed back and you'd fly back, but you probably wouldn't arrive in time to edit it. It would already be being edited. So for example like if I shot a Super Bowl uh generally it was like Lee who'd be editing it. Um and so by the time I got back I could sort of chime in with any other things I remembered to look for in the footage that we could incorporate in the piece, but it was it was pretty much a team effort at that point, you know.

Uh I loved hearing that too. I love every time I I I hear about the writers working together and and and and and um collaborating rather than cuz I mean you hear these stories about these writing writer rooms at you know, Saturday Night Live being the famous example of course and Shark Tanks and you know, Us vs. Them. And and and and it just seems like uh for the most part, I mean notable exceptions of course, but but it seems like the pants crew were really a crew that gelled together and collaborated more than anything. And it certainly must have helped in the in in in in shaping you and your skill as a comic. sure, cuz I feel like you know, I have a certain sort of style and a you know, way you know, that I think sort of may have helped fill in gaps with people. I mean there are people who we work with you know, Steve and Lee and Joe and Tommy.

I mean these are guys that were you know, just awesome and you know, and the Stangles were so great and it was you know, I just tried to find my niche, contribute as best I could, you know, and then you know, everybody got a chance to step up at times and sort of take the lead. And you're doing so many shows, you're doing 200 shows a year, you know, everyone just it's like we got to buckle down and work together cuz we're just trying to put on the best show we can given the you know, the limited amount of time we have to produce them, you know.

Um fantastic Or even just seeing Jerry Mulligan, you know, just being near Jerry it was one of those things you're just like oh this is like we would be in the room in the writers room having a meeting and sometimes Jerry would be going down to rehearsal cuz he had a he was going to be on the show that night and he would just walk in and he just yell like I don't know something about the movies and he'd walk out and it would just everyone would laugh and it would just be you know, one of those moments you're just like that's Jerry Mulligan, you know what I mean and you're just it was just so cool to sort of be around all these these people all the time. 14 years I feel very grateful, you know. Well yeah yeah and and that's the other part too is how many like this culture of the Panthers you know, very few of you can take a compliment without deflecting it you know, ninja like you know, subtly just you know, reposition the compliment and then put make it about somebody else or something like that.

That one and then and then grateful like you're all just humbly grateful. Um, you know, you know, were there times where there was imposter syndrome there where you're like, I shouldn't be here or did you just grow so organically because you did come from a different department and and and we're just growing within this company that was Yeah. fielded. I mean, I feel so to some degree I feel like I had, you know, being at the show and working there for a few years before becoming a writer, I felt like I was really able to sort of capture the voice and understand the show. But absolutely, like when you, you know, when I had the opportunity to be a writer, it was you know, you spend the first every 13-week cycle you're like, I mean, this could be it maybe, I don't know, you know, you're just sort of trying to find your footing and eventually you you have to put that aside and you have to say, you know, we've been here long enough, you know, you've you've shown you could do the work.

So now try to relax and try to figure out, you know, how to not worry about just getting something on, but how to get something on that's meaningful and different and and helps, you know, evolve the the form and the thing that we the things we always do. Yes. Can you try to create something So you're trying to not just fit into the template that exists already, but try to push through and find new things to do or new and it's really hard, you know, but it's you're you're just trying to push yourself so that you have to, you know, forget about the the imposter syndrome angle and realize you're here for a reason. You've proven you can do it, you know, 13 weeks has come and gone and you're still here and people are still, you know, seem to generally like you being around.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So. Um, okay, so so I'm going to ask you one question then I'm going to ask you a question about the 13-week week cycle to let your brain think about the question I'm going to ask. A moment like what you're describing where you're not and I I want to be very very very careful as I say this, you're not merely helping uh, you know with something that has been around like stump the band. I mean you know or something that has been around but you're you're wanting to create one of these moments that's new that does move the rock a little bit or or or is one of those magical little things. Yeah, I mean yeah okay, just create that. Create magic out of nothing, right? Like that's a tough tough order. The question is you know were there any of those moments in your mind that you were a part of that you saw that you helped create and and and and and did. So that's that's the question there. Like what's an example of one of those moments? Now I'm going to ask you this to so you can think about that in your subconscious.

The 13 week cycle, you go from being you know working with Jill you know in this this this job. Obviously you know salary bumps and all that aside but but you're working with her in this job, this stable job that is a lot of fun where you're doing a lot of cool stuff. Stuff that the kid in you is just I can't believe this kind of a thing. If you correct on that. I don't want to say that. You're doing a lot of great stuff. Making the jump over to 13 week cycle of the the the life of a writer, was that difficult? Was there trepidation there? Oh for sure. Yeah, but it's you know you you you have to have that belief in yourself that you know and and I again I had had the opportunity to be writing a little bit beforehand. So I had had the opportunity get it that's why it's a little confusing cuz I had had I had gotten some jokes on the show before becoming a writer. So I'm sure there's the first joke I had as a you know officially as a writer but you know I felt like I understood the job.

I felt like I wasn't where I needed to be yet but the people around me were so supportive. You know I mean obviously you know Lee there was no bigger supporter you know of me than Lee and he was such a great sort of mentor and sort sort through the process and seeing how he transitioned to that role and then obviously when Joe came in and being able to watch Joe and how smart and funny and just his unique style and ability. So all these things you're just like seeing all these different people and you're trying to like will various aspects of from them to sort of become part of you know sort of how you operate so you can you know just push forward I don't know. I don't really think you know it's hard like Tom Ruprecht always said it's impossible for when someone says you know write a hit single. You know you can't it's it's it's it's really hard.

So for me it was little small victories figuring out a new thing to do you know like I don't know Lee and I at one point we you know pitched something it was I called the technical maintenance minute and it was just a way to feature different members of the show in the technical maintenance department and the technical maintenance guys would come out and talk about some new piece of technology they had in some very you know tech speak you know gobbledegook and it was just one of those things that it was fun to find new people on the show to feature.

Um just to sort of mix things up and give you a new a new thing to try to write for. Did you um how how many how many in front of the camera experiences did you have? In your run? Um I'm trying to think. There was a few you know when I was the writers researcher because I was around you know I got to sort of be in a couple of shots. I had a couple of lines you know I was a pretended to be a page once but you know and opened the door and it was like a swarm of bees outside and I I don't know it was something like that. I remember too I think one of the guest host shows when Dave was out for the heart surgery. I think Dana Carvey was hosting and there was a I'm trying to think I was in the audience I was like an audience plant that night. So there was there was some moments I have them written down somewhere, you know. Okay. But, yeah, there was a few There was nothing There was There was nothing really, you know, oh, you you know, remember when Jeremy was on the show or whatever. So.

Right. Uh that that that question was setting up this one here. Um Some of the writers, uh performers already, you think about Bill Scheft and and some of these other people, some of the, you know, natural performers, some of the writers Joe pushed into it, you know. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um as in as as potentially, you know, let's mess with Joe from the other writers, that kind of a thing. Did you ever have Did you get bit by the performing bug at all um through your time working there? I was very comfortable sort of in my role, and I I enjoyed being the person who would, you know, occasionally give the push to people that were uncomfortable. Do you know what I mean? Um no, I I I enjoyed um you know, performing for the writers, you know, and just sort of being in the room and sort of letting that be where I sort of did my thing, you know. Yeah, I didn't really have an itch for that. I enjoyed sort of being behind the scenes, you know, and doing what I had to do. Yeah, I got you.

Um have you thought about one of those moments? Has there Was Was one of those moments where it's like, yep, we moved the needle a little bit. This was more than just getting something on the air. This was something that I'm proud of that was um to me, anyway, you know, really important. I don't You know, when you're talking about that, I I don't remember I remember when the um the whole Leno-Conan thing was happening, and I remember I just remember and not so much me individually, but I remember as a group it being one of those moments where you're like, we really need to, you know, try to tackle this in the best way we can. And I just remember um feeling sort of overwhelmed by that whole situation, but I remember you know, everyone was coming to the coming to play, you know, like you know, Lee and Joe and Tommy and Steve. Like I just remember and the Stangles were back there and it was just a lot of like we got to figure out how to do this and it was just a one of those moments where it wasn't individually me moving the needle in any way, but it was figuring out how Dave was going to address this situation, which was so linked to his own previous situation.

That's where I felt like wow, just being in the room here for this and contributing whatever I can felt like an interesting sort of tipping point there just in terms of, you know, we are the ones who have a very specific need to say something here, you know, and that was one of those moments where it was like wow, this is crazy. Yes. Um I think Joe had that Leno victims unit, right? Yeah, oh yeah. Is that what So, yeah. There was like That and Hall came back for that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Like yeah, I I just So, so for me um the Okay, so the last 6 weeks of, you know, plug for Scott Ryan's book. I mean I love you know, Zinneman and Carter's books. I mean I love them. I've you know, they're fantastic, but this book here to me it's my favorite 6 weeks in any television run of any broadcasting show and like the last 6 weeks of this show to me was was the It was everything. If there was a quote-unquote golden age of TV, that would be it. But if I had a favorite time of David Letterman's entire run and I had to I had to kind of pin it down to one moment, it was either Late Show one or Late Show two.

And and they both asked me on different days, right? Like Right. The what you got to be a part of you know, that those moments um, I'm fascinated by them. I'll watch Don Giller's, uh, you know, compilations on on on every moment kind of that happened there. All the shots being fired back and I think there's even one where it showed, you know, some of the stuff Kimmel did and some of the stuff that other everyone else was doing. Um, like would you guys Okay, for example, when Kimmel goes on uh, and does his entire show as Leno. Um, you guys as writers, you're in a room together, you're seeing all this stuff that's happening, you know, Conan releases his letter, that kind of thing. Is that all you guys are talking about those days? And it's like, you know, that's this is what this is what the show's going to be for the next um, you know, for right now anyway, we're going to be talking about this and doing this.

Like it must have been an amazing perspective to see everything else going on around you. Yeah, it's surreal and you're just like you're just you're just trying to find your way through it. And there's a lot of, you know, writing things that never see the light of day and it's a lot of, you know, we can't we can't push this far, we have to pull back, you know, we can't quite say it this pointedly, let's figure out a way to say it that gets the message across but is a little less harsh, you know, you're just you're trying to realize cuz it's, you know, people everyone has feelings in this whole process too, so. Absolute Well, yeah, and and I think I think you guys did a really good job of of of just making fun of everything going on around. Like I think you guys did a really really good job of that, making fun of everybody and not, you know, obviously Leno was the was the the focal point, but at the same time, I mean, I think you guys did a really good job of of just making fun of the situation and of course bringing it back to Dave and Dave's situation, you know, well, I'm so, you know, I been rejected for the Tonight Show again, you know, that attitude. Yeah, yeah. Did Dave ever surprise you guys?

Because I mean, I apparently there were nights, and I don't know if it was just him feigning it, but but it apparently there were nights where he's like, "Okay, I'm not going to talk about this." And there were comedy there was a blue card with the comedy piece sitting right there and he ended up just now just talking about it anyway. You you'd see it and you'd be like, "What are you doing? Come on. Let's go. Come on." Like you you just you you'd be confused and you're just like, "Wait a second." And then you'd realize, you know, this has a very specific window of time where you have to put it on the air and it just you know. And at the end of the day, it's just like it's his it's his show. His name is on the marquee. It is what it is. And you just sort of roll with it, you know. Yeah, I think there was one night, too, where he even said, "Oh, do we have time for this?" And Barbara just screams, "No!" Like like Yeah. exasperated Barbara. No.

Okay. Shrug. We'll be right back kind of a thing. Um Yeah, I I can imagine that those would be electric moments when things like that would happen. I don't know if it came with frustration for the writers at that point or if you were like, "This is kind of cool." Um the sponsor came in You know, you know, it's it was only frustrating you know, if it was like, you know, you you were there really late working on like a a video quiz or something and you had, you know, it took forever to figure out what the jokes would be and, you know, and then the graphics department cuz you was working on it all day. And so, you know, it was really I don't know. There I wish I had specific moments, like specific things that got cut. I should have kept a more detailed list of those just cuz it would be fun to sort of go back and go through it and be like, you know, yeah. Oh, and and that will happen as as you know, as this show develops, you know, that's going to happen. I I can't wait to have a couple of you on at the same time and then just sit back and eat the popcorn while you guys just kind of, you know, bring these things up. And I'm so glad that it's happening.

I don't know if you go ahead. No, I was just going to say I think it's great. I think it's really cool that you people are you know, you've put this together here. It's such a unique you know, it's it's fun to see people's perspectives and and cuz it's been a while now, but you know, as we as we've been talking about it, you know, memories have been you know, have come flooding back, you You so It's really cool. That's good and that's thank you for saying that. That's that's fantastic that that's happening. The enthusiasm that I bring to this the genesis of that enthusiasm I've talked about it before in the show a little bit my you know my daughter-in-law you know she is sweet little sweet little blonde 20 you know 2-year-old you know oh I want to show you something she knows I love comedy and all that. I want to show you something shows me something that someone did and I just kind of go no I'm going to show you where that originated and then I bring up the Letterman clip of it. Right right right.

Um I'm astounded. And you you might be able to kind of identify with this cuz our age is similar. I'm astounded how quickly the world has forgotten Johnny Carson and Johnny Carson was the biggest star of the world. Right. And and and to me it's like I don't know what it is Jeremy I swear to God it's just this weird little itch where it's like no we're going to transfer some knowledge here and we're going to show you know we're going to we're going to show future generations and the generations now about the innovative stuff that you guys did. It's so it's so amazing watching Walter and company put these these these moments up on YouTube now because you never had the opportunity to have the YouTube moment the next day and the viral moment. You had the water cooler moment which is why your numbers you know and and and and before the dilution of TV and all that kind of crap we can talk all all sorts of that but but you never had the opportunity to go viral.

And there were thousands of moments on that show that would have gone viral. Sure. And and so to me us doing stuff like this and and and collaborating with the you know getting the old band back together and talking about this stuff it just it adds a richness to it and I'm I'm really I'm really stoked about about what we're we're all doing here. This is a lot of fun. Yeah that's cool. Um It's only going to grow. I mean I there's so many people that you know I'm sure your list is huge but I'm excited to sort of see some familiar faces and hear their stories again. Anybody and I'm going to ask you this, anybody from any position within the Pants family of any sort, any intros are welcome. I will take them. There isn't one person, you know, you talk about the sound effects guy, yeah, I want that guy. I've got to, you know, I'm telling tales out of school a little bit here, but I'm about to record with David K. I am Oh, awesome. fascinated to talk to him.

We mentioned Janice, I would love to have Janice on and talk Sure, for sure. some of these things, you know. Everybody had a had a had a part in this very unique situation in broadcasting history. And and yeah, so Let's go to the end. Let's talk about that last six weeks that Okay. I know we're jumping around here and I I like to I like to, you know, do it differently than that. to jump however, yeah, absolutely. However you want to do it. Okay, cool. Cuz you've already you've already said that you'll come back on and we'll get the box out and we'll go look through the box and that'll be that'll be I will bring the box out and we'll just go through it. I won't even look at it. OH MY GOD, THAT'S YES. That's a that's a fantastic We'll go through it organically. It's fine. Oh, oh, Jeremy, you're making my night. Um the last six weeks at the time of this broadcast, you know, Brian Teta's staff favorite moments just came out.

And and and I loved I loved watching the evolution of of him and his career. Anybody who was an intern and evolved and then waited and made it to the end. I love that story so much. Um Let's go to the night that Dave announced his retirement. It's about a year and a half, I guess, before you guys finished up, a little bit maybe a little less than that. He tells the Eagle story and all of that, you know, um and and and announces it. Um were you part of the meeting beforehand where everybody gathered and and it was hey, Dave's going to announce his retirement today. Okay, so you saw it on air. Yeah, I think I think maybe we had trickled upstairs a a bit. Um, I can't remember exactly, but I remember being with the other writers upstairs, probably, you know, cuz it was almost showtime, so we were probably getting ready to uh have dinner or see what happened, or you know, watch the show together. And we might have heard right before Um, yeah.

But yeah, I just remember being you guys, that's what you're doing at showtime. The writers are meeting together, right? In a room? Yeah, yeah, it depends on what time, you know, what if we're taping two shows and one is or much earlier, we wouldn't be, but Yeah. You know, you're basically waiting to make changes Um, after Dave seeing everything in the dressing room. And once those are locked, you know, then you go and you sort of hang out together. Cuz sometimes they might throw out the whole top 10 list during the show and you have to write a new one during a commercial break, you know. Tommy talked about that. That was uh those those would be crazy moments. Yeah, yeah. And uh or there'd be even be moments too where you This is This is a a digression, but you know, there'd be moments moments where you have to write a special top 10 list also for some random group that you know nothing about and you're trying to write top 10 jokes for a special event that Dave's going to record during the show.

And it's like for, you know, I don't know, some Elks Lodge in Montana that, you know, it's going to do a special top 10 list for and it's just it's just an interesting, you know, process. And then we try to stay together so we can all bang these jokes out together. That's really cool. Uh how often did that happen? Not that often. It was every once in a while there'd be a special event or things like that that would come up and he was going to record a second top 10 during the show. And um you know, every once in a while it'd just be it was really hard to write specific jokes for like a group or organization that you don't know anything about. You know what I mean? It was just a a challenge. So you'd do your best to just come up with, you know, random non sequiturs or, you know, odd puns with people's last names.

And so, there, you know, like that it was one of those things like Steve Young was always the best at coming up with, you know, the random thing that seems so obvious, but it's so funny, you know? Like one day we had we were it was like a random middle of the week and we had nothing for for segment, and he ended up just pitching a commercial about uh you know, hump day. And it was uh you know, just some different questions about people and humps and it was just one of those random funny things about it was just a commercial for hump day because it was the middle of the week and we had nothing else to talk about and there was nothing topical. You know what I mean? Just people would come up with and people could have come the way he approached things from such a unique skewed point of view was just awesome.

And a lot of times, you know, you know, Lee and Steve and Joe, they would they could just come up with something so clever and unique that bailed us out of jams time and again, you know. Yeah.

I uh I I I got to be I love Steve Young. Like I love his mind. I love his perspective on on life. I love Yeah, he is just he is clearly one of the smartest um most skewed um views views skewed. We'll get to that in a second. Um I'm going to I want to talk about Kevin Smith. I can't wait to talk about that. Yeah, sure. But I just Steve Young's mind is just so impressive to me. And and and there's so many things that he hits that just speak to me that I identify with, but I just could never I I look at that. I get intimidated when I talk to guys like that. He's just He's got this unbelievable uh perspective on things that's so fresh and unique. I I just Yeah. I just appreciate him so so much. Um who were some of your mentor Steve Young obviously one of your mentors? Who were some of the other mentors on the show for you? Lee you talked about him. I mean um so when I was an intern, it was the Stangles were there. It was Carter and Craig. Um I'm trying to think. Um Chris Harris was there.

I mean these were guys I I looked up to. There were so many great people. But like you know, the Steve Steve, Lee, Joe, Tommy were some of my contemporaries there and it was just so fun to sort of you know, be in the room with them. Um you know, the Stangles gave me my shot and they you know, they gave me the opportunity to write and so that's one of those things where, you know, it's interesting how every step of the way there always seems to be like, you know, someone who's look just I've been from someone looking out for me and sort of giving me that extra nudge to sort of give me the get me to the next step and it was such a great you know, those guys were really instrumental in sort of helping formulate my comedy, you know, world view. So. Yeah. It was very cool. But just you know, Jerry Mulligan and Bill Scheft, I mean seeing you know, I didn't get to deal with those guys you know, as much cuz you know, Jerry by then the night, right? Jerry had just kind of retired as you were.

I mean I got to work with Jerry as the writers researcher a lot and just being there but yeah, when he retired it was you know, I regretted not being able to you know, be on the staff longer with him.

Oh. But um, Yeah, it was one of those things what a what a what a sweetheart. I can't I can't wait to have him back on the the show. That was that was talking to him was an in insane honor. Um, Yeah, yeah. And And then as the new as the new folks came in too like after that core group, you know, like R.J. Fried and Paul Mecella and those guys it was Jill Goodwin was there too. Um, Zack Smilovitz. I mean there was a great you know, as we got to the end there it was just fun to sort of see the next generation there too. Um, you know, ready to take the mantle and go. Man, you're so good at the segue and bringing us back again to where we were going to talk. So so you the night that Dave retired you're probably in the room or said that he was going to retire, pardon me. You were in the room and you know, shock all that. Um, at that point did you kind of in your mind hit the video record button a little bit more were you a little more present for that next year and a bit?

Um, you know, Yeah. It was one of those things I just it was um, you know, I just always said to people you know, I couldn't it just like I would have been three years old so I couldn't have been there at the beginning but you know, I I absolutely want to now be there at the end. Do you know what I mean? And just to be there to sort of be a part of that final run to help shape in whatever small way I could, you know, um you know, how things how things went, you know, at the end. It was just such a I was just grateful to be a part of it and uh it was uh it was one of those things you do you do try to be more present. You do try to say, "Oh, we really now have to figure out how to land the plane, you know?" And it's it was fascinating. It really it really was. Um and and I mean, you know, right now at the time of this broadcast, it's it's it's around the holiday season, you know, and we think about I've already we've already shot our our uh Christmas episode. Oh, nice. And and and it has a a beautiful focal point on the last Christmas episode for you guys. And I mean, I I you know, Darlene, that last uh I'm going to have Glenn Borders on here um and and he's going to talk about uh the snow and all that kind of stuff.

Oh, great. That last that last moment. Like, were you in the writers' room when Darlene was singing Christmas with you know, her her famous Christmas song? Or or or did you sneak down to the studio for any of those moments? think. There was Yeah, I I we just ended up I think I ended up just staying upstairs. It was one of those things, too, cuz I just I don't know. It I I I kind of wanted to sneak down, but at the same time, you know, I don't know I didn't want to get like too emotional or too I don't know. I didn't want to just get, you know, I just wanted to sort of again, like it's one of those things you stay in your lane. I didn't want to be somewhere where I didn't need to be and sort of be in the way. Uh and I just sort of took it in from, you know, upstairs, I think. Well, and that's what you did formally, right? You know, when you were the when you were the the the the production assistant or the the research assistant, you know, get your job done well first and then do the extras and things. And and and that kind of they're almost the same thing.

That's it. I think I maybe got one I think I got two autographs in my entire time at the Letterman show. It was um I had Tenacious D they signed a CD for me, which was awesome. And it just cuz I just I don't know what happened I don't know what came over me. I tried to avoid doing that, you know. And then so I was a Syracuse guy and we had like Jim Boeheim on and Carmelo Anthony and Gerry McNamara after they won the national championship. So they signed a Sports Illustrated for me. So but yeah, it was one of those things other than that I kind of did my best to sort of you know, stay upstairs and mind my business. Um okay, that being said there were there probably would have been times I mean I love talking to Lee and Joe well Lee in particular but Alan Coulter celebrity interviews is a good example where where you might be end up as a writer working with some of these big stars and and and and helping to create content for the show with them. Any any moments there that anybody that you worked with that come to mind as I say that?

There was a there was a Maria Pope at one point had asked me to write something it was like um I got to there was like a run of Steve Martin was going to be on the show and he was going to be promoting his Friday appearance every night during the week leading up to it and it was one of those things I just got had to write the scripts basically based on what you know, they had come up with but just even seeing that being part of that process and seeing that up close was great. I mean obviously working with Chris Elliott on pieces was just incredible. I mean he's the best. Um you know, I got to do a lot of work at the end. I did a lot of pieces with Andy Kindler. Oh wow, that's awesome. So when Andy is a dream guest for me for me as well. Oh you should you should definitely get Andy on the show. We did I think we did we shot maybe 25 remotes together all over went to space camp. We went to like the unclaimed baggage center. We went to spring training. We went all over the place.

And so he's a lot of fun. It was really fun working with him. Um Yeah, it was uh And part of me part of the fun for me too was like working with like with the with the voice over actors that we had booked to do the voice overs and there would be guys like Rob Webb and Ralph Gunderman and J.R. Horn who like you know played like the chief of police in like Die Hard 3 I think and he was like and like Sarah Krieger and we had all these awesome people that I got to know in the business that weren't like they weren't in front of the camera but their voices you would absolutely know. Sam Freed was another one. You'd know their voices from any commercial you'd hear and it was just so cool getting to know them. Um So yeah, I just felt you know like it was overwhelming sort of all the people you get to meet and then you're starting to piece together you know where you've heard that voice or where you've seen that person before and even commercial actors that would come on and just do little guest spots you know for day players that would come in. It was really cool. I we we had a great interview with with Jody Ebert the Yeah, the you guy right? Can you say that on this show?

Can you what can you say on this show? This show absolutely. Say whatever you want. Okay. Okay. I I I I loved I I loved the perspective again this is why I want to get Kindler on as well like the perspective of people who didn't work for the show but were on the show and and because they all everybody has a a different perspective. The Steve Martin thing right there I'm not going to let that go. Famously there were people who when they would come on the show they took it very seriously and weeks beforehand sometimes they would be wanting to make sure that it was going to be really really good. Bruce Willis is one. Steve Martin is another. That's so and that's and that's like like Lee used to work with Steve all the time and was so integral in like a lot of the Steve and stuff and the so yeah, it was always interesting to hear him sort of talk about you know that process. But Bruce was you know always coming on. He's like it was always Bruce is going to do like four or five things.

We're going to shoot these different things. Um yeah, you know like there were certain celebrities too like Tom Hanks for example would give a special he wouldn't necessarily record comedy bits but he would give special care like when I was in research, you'd see how thoughtful he was preparing his segment, making sure that, you know, there was engaging fun stories and it, you know, helped Dave it set Dave up for, you know, great jokes and it was it was really interesting to sort of see that part of the process. Um okay, so this is just on the fly here and I don't know if you remember this or not. Uh you certainly would have been a writer when it happened. Um I can't pull the year out of my head, but uh one of the greatest Tom Hanks bits that I ever ever saw on that show. Uh famously of course Dave's last late night that Tom Hanks was phenomenal on that talking about the stories about being a bellhop, but there was a bit that you guys wrote for the show where Dave looked at his desk and he's like, "What?"

He's looking down at the desk and he's looking around and there's a button on the desk that was never had never been there before and he looked and he's like, "I I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do." And then he goes and he he presses the button and out runs Tom Hanks. He jumps into the chair beside him and he said, "Hey Dave, I'm here for you." It's like That's really funny. And I don't know if you remember that or not. I remember it. I don't remember when it was. I don't remember who wrote it, but I remember it and I I remember moments like that, you know, we there was a mandate at some points where it was like we're trying to come up with these just little quick things. Yeah. You know, and then you find out you have a slight, you know, Tom Hanks is available, but he can't do a full panel segment or whatever and so that's it's the perfect thing. Yeah. It was so funny. Love that stuff. Love that stuff. Love that, you know, I mean this was probably before your time when it when it came to your time in the show. You had Tony Randall would just randomly appear.

Manny Patinkin would just randomly appear and and Yeah. again, you guys were so good at creating planned spontaneity and Yeah, yeah. Right. Um just an amazing thing. Um going up to the show's end, uh the last night, let's let's I mean again, I I know that there has ever been a perfect, uh more perfect, uh final show, you know, culminating with with Barbara's unbelievable I mean it was the team, but Barbara led that that that um Yeah, that montage was unbelievable. to live music which you know I want to do an episode just on that cuz there's a lot of drama around how that that that whole whole whole ordeal went, but I mean just a beautiful beautiful piece of piece of television there culminating there. The last night um where were you during the last show? Were you in the writer's room? Were you in the Were you in the theater? Were you already at the party? Um where Yeah.

No, I remember the last day it was a lot of going around taking pictures with you know my you know at by that time we I'd worked with the editor the editors so long you know so long. So I wanted to make sure we I was down there. I saw you know Mark Spatny and Dan Bajio and Andrew Evangelista and all the and and Jessica and Randy and everybody that was down there we took pictures. I saw the graphics department took pictures with all of them. And it was so that the day was basically doing that and then it was like down in the studio I remember taking a picture on the set with I think I have one with like Robert and Jerry Foley. Just people that you know you know anyone that I could sort of take a picture with. We did that that day. And then during the show we were in the conference room. I remember I think Carter and Craig came back and we all watched together on the TV in the conference room. And it was awesome. It was one of those like can't believe this is happening moments you know.

Yeah. And then I just remember I have vague memories of the after party and you know standing across the street just looking at the marquee for the last time. It was it was pretty wild. Yeah.

You know. Um What did you Okay, oh so so what was the 21st like? Like I mean you know, we hear we hear the stories of the confusion of the you know of course of the set. So glad it got rescued and and you know what was that like? Did you did you grab any souvenirs of any sort? Uh not so I mean, I probably have a couple of like, you know, bumper cells upstairs somewhere. Yeah. Um I had I do have one thing framed in my office and it's a when I left as an intern, uh they gave you a a late night bumper and all the writers signed it. And so, I was it's a super cool momento to have from that from my internship. But, um yeah, no, I didn't steal anything from the set. It was it was weird, you know, most of most things were packed up, but just sort of being around for a little bit and seeing, you know, everything in the dumpsters was kind of, you know, just it made it seem very real very quick, you know, you're like, "Oh, maybe we can just come back and do a show on Monday." But, no. It's uh that's it.

Uh from this guy's perspective, traumatizing as well. I I I I I was there a month before I was there at my show was on April 20th. That's when I my little moment happened. Yeah. That was that that moment there. April 20th? April 20th. Okay. Cool. was was my night. And so, it was very fresh in my mind. Like, cuz we were down there it was all about and then like, you know, getting our picture taken behind the desk and then the having that moment with Dave in the audience. Like, that was to me it was like, "Okay, my video record recorder was on like crazy." So, you know, going and meeting seeing Rupert again and all that stuff thinking, "Okay, this will be the last time I have anything to do with Letterman." Yeah. God, was I wrong. And and so, when I saw those dumpsters, I in my head was literally like, "Okay, well, wait a second. This is happening right now. Is there a way tomorrow I could be there with a U-Haul Right. to try like I I literally was I could I could picture it all like right there in my mind's eye.

It's like, "Oh, no, this needs What the I I don't get it. What the hell is happening here?" Yeah, yeah. And uh you know, this should be all in a museum and and and um So, now what was the So, now what Now, Chris Gethard somehow it part of this, right? He got rescued rescued some of the set. Is that true? I don't know all of the people who rescued like I don't to be perfectly put all my cards on the table. I don't know who it was that rescued this one. Yeah. That's the Verrazano. Yeah, it looks awesome. your set. Y'all so I got crazy that yeah. Yeah. So so grateful. I do know three or four I do know where three or four of the bridges are and maybe after I stop hit stop I can talk about who who might have some of those. Yeah yeah awesome. So but I mean I'm just glad they they survived in some capacity cuz it's such a cool, you know. For those who did did do the dumpster diving but there's so much that didn't survive and I mean to me that's just a shame of shames.

Now that being said, you know, Thursday came, Friday came, Monday there wasn't another show. What was re-entry like cuz I mean this is a huge part of your life like you said your formative years. What was it like when it ended and where did you go? What have you done since? It was I think if I'm not mistaken the Monday after the show ended Lee and I had a meeting in Brooklyn with the Gregory brothers from YouTube. Do you know they do the songify the news? This is the is this the music Yeah, there you go. So and yeah they like the from Tik Tok like the corn kid that song. yeah yeah yeah. We met with them I think the following Monday and ended up doing a a digital web series with them over the rest of the summer. Um That was the song voyage. which was our first thing back and so it was called song voyage. That's song voyage. That was it.

And so it was basically they went to different countries and we're going to make like their whole thing was making viral songs with different artists and so they went to Vietnam and Japan. They did a song it's on there was one they it was a guy who like a he was like a chicken farmer and they have a song called chicken attack that you know it was just silly and weird and fun and it was just cool to sort of and and just some entree into the digital space, you know, because we had been sort of analog for so long and then, you know, to move right into that was really fun. And then we you know, bounced around doing a bunch of different things. Um So, the Nightly Show, Tom Ruegger invited me to write for the Nightly Show for a little bit. So, we did that. Um it was important for me to try to do as many different things as possible because I felt like, you know, I had done some time in late night, so I wanted to really explore different opportunities.

So, you know, Leah and I worked on a pilot with Dan Harmon for the show called Great Minds, um which is really fun. And then, um With Dan Harmon, wow. And then we did a um I did a an awesome It was It was a really fun experience. Ethan Berlin invited me to write for a game show called Paid Off with Michael Torpey. And it was a a show where the contestants all had enormous student debt. And the whole goal was if you won the show, they paid off your debt. Um Oh my god. If you won the episode. So, we shot like we shot 32 episodes. We shot them in two 16-episode Junction in Atlanta. It was really cool because I had started to notice notice this trend for jobs I was, you know, you meeting for. It was, you know, a lot of advocacy and, you know, different social aspects of not just comedy, but it was, you know, it was something that had a maybe a little more of an impact or Social enterprise. a difference in someone's life.

And so, it was really unique to sort of get It was like the goal was to sort of make sort of a sort of modern-day a new version of Remote Control, but it had this sort of social angle to it. And uh you know, Michael Torpey is just one of the most talented guys and getting to work with that show was just a lot of fun to sort of help be a part of something from the ground up and figure out what it's going to be and uh it was really cool and getting to shoot in Atlanta was my first experience getting down there to shoot um So, it was really neat.

That's really meantime, just working on other things like, you know, writing pilots and writing scripts. So, it's been it's been it's been good. And that's What are you doing right now? So, right now I just finished uh writing my first feature. So, I'm waiting to sort of uh you know, take the next step with that. So, yeah. So, I'm just trying to figure out what's next with that and just um you know, playing around trying to figure out what's next. A comedy, I assume? Yeah, it's it's it's certainly my sensibility. It's a little comedy, a little horror, a little uh little sci-fi. So, it should be a lot of fun. So, I'm hoping that it uh you know, turn into something special. Uh congratulations on that and and and of course uh you know, with the little teeny tiny voices that we have, we will be shouting your praises and and excitement for you and and when everything when anything moves forward with it, we would love to to talk to you about it and and and be a part of the of the hype machine getting that going.

Oh my gosh, that's so good, Jeremy. That's that's fantastic. Um I got to finish because you know, the other night we're going back and forth and and you're like, "Oh, I I have to go." And and immediately, you know, you drop a you drop a bomb to me anyway that's like, "Oh my god, that's what you're going to do?" How did you get wrapped up into the world of Kevin Smith and what did you what what did you do recently with him? Well, um so after it was during the pandemic, my wife and I said we needed a change for the family. So, we wanted to figure out um you know, what we could do to sort of help everyone reset. So, we moved um from the town we were living in we moved down to the Jersey Shore um to Highlands, New Jersey and um that's Kevin Smith's hometown. Did you know this before? Have you been a Kevin Smith uh Yeah, yeah, I've been a fan since yeah, since in college when I saw Clerks for the first time and I've seen, you know, everything. So, I've been a fan and then you one of the things we did for the show actually was we shot uh Biff we did a remote on the set of Cop Out in 2009 maybe? I think it came out 2010.

Oh my god, I forgot about that. It worked out because Tracy Morgan and Bruce Willis and so because Bruce was doing it and they were shooting in New York, Biff went out for the afternoon. So, we interviewed Bruce, Tracy, Kevin. Uh and so that was a lot of fun and um cuz Kevin had done a a of stuff um for the Tonight Show for many years. Now you're shooting in New York and so it was really great to have the opportunity to um um you know, interact with him there. And then um so when I moved to town, he had been um you know, he just he just shot Clerks 3 here last summer. You know, my kids and I every once in a while we'll stop into the Quick Stop and just get a drink or you know, whatever. So it's like interesting to be a part of that world. And so then he bought the movie theater in Atlantic Highlands. And um they announced that they were going to be doing a a film festival. And so Ernie O'Donnell, who's the the coordinator, he's the like his right-hand man who runs the the theater, you know, we were talking and Ernie O'Donnell is also in Clerks and He's in Clerks. He plays the personal trainer. He's in Clerks 3, which is great. Yeah.

And so he's um he's been instrumental in getting the theater back up and running. It's like a five-screen theater in the town over and so they've rebooted the whole thing and uh you know, it's coming along great. And so they were going to do a film festival at his podcasting studio, which is a couple of towns over in a different town called Leonardo. Yep. And they realized when they opened the festival up for submissions, they got like 700 submissions. And so they realized they had to really figure out a venue for this. And um the movie theater thing just made sense and Kevin bought it. Wow. uh anyway, so I got to judge the festival, which was great. Um and so you know, it's like Sorry, sorry. No, I is he like, "Okay, well, yeah, but I know a former Letterman writer and I we So I reached out to Ernie and I just said, "Hey, listen, um you know, so I'm So basically I called Ernie and I said, "Listen, um you know, as a New Highlands guy, I'm a huge fan. I've I've supported this theater.

I'm I'm a fan of that movie theater." I said, "If you need anything any help with the festival, let me know." And he's like, "Would you want to judge?" I was like, "Absolutely." And the next day I got a a link and there was 700 movies. And it's like he's like, you know, "The first batch is watch watch as many as you can until we can narrow down the first batch." And then for the final round, uh there was like 120 shorts and features that I got sent and it was really really cool. It was just a whole just a diverse array of talent, horror, comedy, drama, really really talented up-and-coming filmmakers. Some real I saw some short films that were just dynamite, out of this world. So, it was really fun to be a part of. And so they had the the festival was this last weekend and it was like 5 days. So, I went and attended a couple of the blocks of the of movies and then attended the awards and it was really neat.

And there was Kevin did a great tribute to this guy Bob Hawk, who was also one of the judges, who was one of the guys who was instrumental in his journey from getting Clerks. He was getting Clerks.

Well, basically when he saw Clerks, he was one of the the people the early advocates who got it into help get it into Sundance. And it was just such a nice um such a nice experience and really fun to be, you know, those guys are so fun and it's just so fun to listen to Kevin tell stories. You know, so Um I'm I'm going to throw the I'm going to throw this out. I want him on this show so badly it's not even funny. Not not only because he's got a Letterman connection. He was he was a guest on the show once, but also there was a time where he had the opportunity to have a top 10 made about him and he didn't do it. I don't know if you know that story or not and I'm not going to go into it anymore cuz I I want to have him on the show and I want to ask him about that. Yeah. He regrets not having it done, you know, with the hindsight. If there's any way that we can get connected to Kevin Smith, oh my gosh, it'd be so fun to have him on.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um my gosh. And now you can talk about the you can talk about the remote we did with Biff and see if he remembers that Oh, yeah. There's so much There's so much because Plus, you know, his whole roster of people. Yes. Um you know, you can talk to them about all their all these movies and stuff. That's the goal of the show. There What we What I just did there is kind of blueprint the the example of what the show is cuz Kevin Smith was a gigantic Letterman fan. Like I'm a big Kevin Smith fan. Any any podcasting influence that I have uh is because of him and when SModcast came out I was an early adopter of of that show. Um, and and Kevin is he's such an inspirational guy because he's the guy that says, you know, just like when he went and saw Slacker uh when he was 19 years old um and he's like, wait wait, this counts? And it kind of wrapped his mind around the idea that, oh, I can do this. And and he has perpetuated that to everybody.

You want to do a podcast, go do it. And and um I I just appreciate that about him so so much how he is so encouraging for people to do things. I want to tell him that. This podcast doesn't exist. I've talked about the lily pads about the Letterman podcast and if one of the lily pads was not there, this show doesn't exist. Kevin Smith is one of those lily pads. So, um but that being said, folks like that who have a connection to Letterman um in any way, big fans, you know, you hear about how how how some of these up-and-coming comedic actors who are sitting beside Dave and have been warned very sternly, do not talk about your adoration to Dave to him, please.

You know, I want to have some of those people on this show so they can talk about the adoration uh for for for what Dave and company did. And Kev's one of those guys. So, um yeah, that's that's a very cool experience. I must have felt really neat being a part of that. It was really cool. It was it was just it's you know, just a small part of the that process and just, you know, for the community I thought it was great to sort of bringing people here and um you know, seeing the the young filmmakers accepting their awards uh it was just really cool to see them get recognized. And obviously, you know, I I think they're going to keep doing it every year. So, you know, I hope to be involved going forward and I think it'll be a lot of fun. And I hope it just continues to grow. Like this podcast is one of those things where pieces will start to fall into place and then once one person does it, someone will say, oh, I'll do it to, you know You know mean?

It just becomes this thing that grows and grows, so and then it'll be this great archive you'll have of just this awesome It's the weirdest thing in the world. I I wanted this podcast for years to show up. I wanted it to be there so I could listen to it weekly. And and it never did and it never did it never did and then and then um and then Alan died. Um and I had already become friends with Shecky at that point. Shecky's again another one of those very very pivotal um lily pads is Rick Shecky. Essential, yeah, for sure. I'm so grateful to have Rick Shecky in my life. Like he is just I yeah, he is just uh Shecky has many memories of me walking to his door and leaning in the door when a writer has asked for some random piece of footage and I would say, "Shecky, do you happen to have uh footage of Bill Clinton on the phone or, you know, do you have um I need, you know, girls in sequin dresses uh on uh on water ski, you know what I mean?"

And it would just be He'd be like, "I don't have that, but I have this." And, you know, for many years he was a such an essential help for me, you know. Oh, I love that. just tell he'd like roll his eyes when I'd walk in the door. He'd say, "What do you need now?" So. Oh god, yeah, and I love that about him. I you know, I And he was always super helpful to me. He was the He was so nice to me and so helpful cuz I was just floundering sometimes. I'm like, "I don't know the first thing about what I'm looking for here." And he would be so great, so. You and I are brothers in that. I have felt the exact same way. Um and and and and and if it wasn't for him, this thing wouldn't exist either. Um you know, And again, it was Alan dying cuz it was like are you kidding me? If If someone was doing the Letterman podcast, Alan would have been a guest five times. Like he would have been He would have just kept it like he Alan would have been a guest.

He would have recorded your intro. Alan was the consummate professional. He was hilarious. He was so such a pro. Like he was a He would just nail it every time, you know, he was so good. And he was game for He was game for almost anything. There were a couple times he's like, "I don't know about this, Jeremy." cuz I would bring him a script and he's like, "I don't know." But then he was always such a good sport and he would end up doing stuff. Um you wrote stuff for him for him? Did you I I wrote stuff for him yeah, but even before that when I was, you know, producing segments, I was definitely the one who sort of got him his material. But there were times I wrote stuff for him, but not as um not as frequently as some of the other writers, but he was anything that I did write for him, he was just knocked out of the park. I don't know if you remember this remote. One of my very favorite moments of all time uh on Late Show was this remote.

They come back from commercial break or whatever and and and uh they're about to do something and and you hear this Dave Dave and Dave's like, "What What is it, Alan?" And he's wearing a sailor suit. And uh Oh my god, yeah. And yeah, and aren't we going to do my sailor sketch? And and and Dave's like, "I'm sorry, we don't have time. The sailor sketch has been cut." And Alan, he doesn't I don't even think he rages at that point. I think he just goes off dejected. Mhm. And then we see a a remote of of uh or a a taped piece of Alan's descent into madness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He breaks the He's I want to find who wrote that and shake their hand. Really great. I don't remember who did, but I remember I remember that piece though. I mean, he and he could really sell the hell out of it all of it, you know. So good. Yeah. Okay, I have I've taken so much of your time and I I did it. I got to the end of the episode being able to ask this question. It is Wiener, right? Yes, correct. Thank you so much. Yeah, no no no. I wanted I thought it was. I wanted to make sure. But I can I can imagine having that name uh Yeah, it's a you know, it presents some issues growing up, but otherwise it's all good. You It helps to develop the comedy skin, you know. So, it's all good.

Um Jeremy, this has been so much fun for me. For me, too. Thank you so much for having me. I I was flattered to be invited. I really appreciate you taking the time. Oh my gosh. You anytime open invitation anytime. Again, I want to have a a writer's round table similar way Malkov did with the Carson podcast. He would do that from time to time. I want to do that here too. Anything else that you want to say at the end of your first appearance on the Letterman podcast? Oh, I just just thanks. I mean this is just such a cool thing that you're doing. I'm I'm excited to do a deep dive now and you know, watch all these and sort of catch up with everybody. And then you know, I'm happy to anything you need along the way let me know. And at some point I will dig out that box we can go through and figure out what's what other weird stuff I got, you know. I think I took some I think I have a couple of things too. Just like odd writer-y things, you know, like maybe a couple of dinner menus that the writers defaced at some point that might have some funny jokes we could talk about so. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that episode is very appealing to me.

The moment you're ready, standing ovation. Like like next week over the holi Yes, absolutely. Whenever you want to do it, we'll do it. Thank you so much for taking time. And again, I I say to all of you whether it's in the first email or or or on air. Thank you for helping to create some of the gray matter pathways in in my brain that have made me the the odd human that I am. Like I swear to God, man, that show is so entrenched in my heart. Everything that you guys did, you know, going through life it was one of those things at the end of the day no matter what I was doing, I always had that to look forward to. And and I just want to say thank you so much for your contribution to that. It means the world and I'm so excited to see what's up for you next, man. Well, thanks and then thanks so much for saying that and thanks for having me and I can't I share those sentiments exactly. It was like a beacon of light at the end of the night.

It's just you know, such a great such a great thing to you know, to be have been a part of. I just it was I consider myself very fortunate. So, thanks so so man. Oh, no problem at all. Okay, I'll do a quick outro and then we'll say our goodbyes privately if you're okay with that. Absolutely, absolutely. Awesome. Okay, well, there we go, everybody. This is why we do the show. I love this experience so, so much. I we talk about the imposter syndrome. I can't believe I get to be the guy that does this. I'm so grateful and I'm not alone. I want to thank every single person who helps contribute along the way, who helps support along the way, who helps fact check me along the way. Everybody, this Letterman podcast community is growing. It's so fun to watch it grow. You know, I'm going to say it till I don't have to say it anymore. And believe me, I'm going to stop saying it a lot sooner than a lot of other podcasters say it.

But until I have to, please like, please share, please subscribe to this podcast. Let's get us to that place where I don't have to say that ever again. And of course, we have one sponsor on the Letterman podcast and that is Rupert G and the Hello Deli. Go to hellodashdeli.com for your only source of official Late Show with David Letterman merchandise. This has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisholm. Coincidentally, I am Mike Chisholm. Thank you and goodnight.