Darin Cox Went To The Late Night Exhibit At The Broadcast Museum And Laughed To Tell About It

Hi, I'm Paul Schaefer. I'm Will Lee. And you are watching the Letterman podcast.

Welcome once again to the Letterman Podcast. My name is Mike Chis. All right. You never forget your first, especially when your first is Darren Cox. Uh Darren Cox, good friend of the show, uh our very first guest, host of the Irritable Dad Syndrome podcast, which has just celebrated its fifth anniversary. And the fifth anniversary uh clip episode they just released is a banger. It's the best of stuff that happened this past year. Uh I highly recommend it. Darren's such a great guy. He he and Mike are doing such a good job uh with irritable Dad Syndrome. It's it's it's very very entertaining. Highly recommend the subscription. Um and uh yeah, he comes back on the show here. He just um went on a a field trip for work um to the broadcast museum in uh Chicago where they have uh for the next uh year and a bit um a a wing or a section dedicated to Johnny Carson who would have turned 100 this past week and um and all of late night the evolution of late night television. And you know, for any of us who love this stuff, Darren's, uh, Darren's, uh, you know, his declaration is that we've all got to go and see it.

It's all worth it. It, you know, we could spend hours there. There's so much good stuff there. So, uh, we talk about that, uh, and a few other things. We talk about what's going on in late night, uh, as a genre right now. We bring some Letterman memories, of course, and, uh, it's just great to catch up. I love these episodes so much with the people in our community. Uh, we talk about Warren Zevon, whole bunch of other things. I'm just really really excited to welcome back our good friend Darren Cox.

Oh, I'm so happy to see you, man. How you doing?

I'm doing really good.

Ah, this is so good. This is so good. We got lots of good stuff to talk about. Um, and and I can't wait to go into all of it, but I want to I want to start by talking about irritable Dad Syndrome. Just celebrated their 5year anniversary.

That's right. We did. Thank you so much for bringing that up. When uh uh five years ago when Mike Odel reached out and asked if I wanted to do this podcast, I I without hesitation said absolutely because Mike and I we we're just we're brothers from different mothers and we and this is a testament to the the question. Don't you guys ever run out of things to talk about? 5 years later, we still haven't run out of things to talk about.

Yep.

Okay. and we released our best of volume five and it was our longest best of episode ever. We were trying to cut stuff down and then we just eventually said, you know what, just just put it in there. It was a three-hour long best of special.

Okay, I got to ask a question about this because um I I need clarification because is it a best of? Okay, so yeah, obviously if we're going the best of the entire series every year it'll be easier to make a clip episode. This is the best of just year five, correct? just year five.

Okay, that's crazy to me because I'll tell you this and I I got to ask if this goes back to a conversation you and I had. I could not believe that the Carl story, the Bob/Carl story appeared in year five, but then I thought about I thought about that cuz that story is fantastic. That story is me. I was that guy when I worked in a place with a lot of people like that story. I love that story. And please everybody go and listen to the irritable if if you ever wanted to try find a place to start the irritable Dad Syndrome podcast. The 5-year anniversary special is really good because they're serving nothing but Homers. They're they're they're so good.

They're very You know what? You have been more supportive than uh most people I know. Seriously. I mean, you know, Mike and I, we have our family, of course, our wives and our kids, and and my mom's a big fan of the show. And we have uh we have patreons, we have patrons, we've got the three Chris's who have uh kept us afloat. I mean, you have Rupert G. We have Chris Hughes and Chris Callaway who are our biggest supporters. We have a a handful of others, but the three Chris's keep us afloat really. But you have been so supportive and I really can't thank you enough for the kind words that you uh have said about the podcast over the years. But we're very proud of it and we've said as long as we enjoy it, we're going to keep doing it. We haven't gotten tired of each other yet. And it's just a lot of fun. And then the the episode that comes out after our 5year anniversary special, it's another banger. It's one of those, how have you guys not run out of things to talk about? We don't run out of things to talk about. We just keep finding things to talk about.

I think that's the point of of of why podcasting has uh become as big as it has. The art of conversation is, you know, it it it basically as long as there's a new day happening, there's some new things to talk about and that new day will be compared and contrasted with the old days and then we can compare and contrast that and go from there. You're wearing a Sound Garden t-shirt, but great great choice of apparel. By the way, today, including the beanie, as you mentioned off camera, I haven't seen your pants yet, but I would bet pretty good. Um, you know, Sound Garden talking about there's some sort of a Sound Garden presentation, a tour of some sort coming forward. How do you do that without Chris Cornell? You and I could go for 20 minutes on that. Even if we've known each other for 20some years and and I think that that's conversation and human connection um is is such a it's something that people love and and gravitate towards. Your podcast with Mike,

fantastic conversation, but then you take a look, you know, comparing there is no comparison between this show and your show. I mean, I, you know, hit record and like a monkey try and, you know, try and get it all onto one thing. This show is so well produced. I'm halfway through your show. Yeah, T-Rex arms. I can do it. I can do it. Um I'm halfway through your show and I had to send you a text going, "God damn, you produced this thing is so well produced. It like you the sound effects, the the commercials, um all the stuff that it's so good. But to go back to the Carl story,

I have a memory that I've either implanted out of um imagination or this actually happened. I feel like you told me the Carl story and I'm like, "Okay, so at what point did you tell this story on the podcast and you were like, I've never told it on the podcast." And so then you guys went and told it on the podcast. Did that happen or is that something that I Cuz I heard the Carl story. You definitely told me the Carl story.

I've told you the Carl story before.

You told me the Carl story before I heard it on the show. Absolutely. We talked about it.

Honest to God. You see, I'm 55.

Yeah. Yeah. I over the past seven or eight years, I've really gotten to that point where I'll tell somebody something and the next day I'll be talking to them and I'll tell them the story again. I've turned into my father

very very very prematurely cuz my father told me at least six times that when he was in the army he thinks that he saw Bob Dylan. Did I ever tell you about that? Yeah, Dad. You run a bar in California that I was in a bar in California and I walked in and there was this guy and he was playing guitar in the corner and Yeah, he was playing this guitar in the corner and he was singing. I'm I think that was Bob. Yes, Dad. You think you saw Bob? Yeah. Dad told me I don't know how many times that he's pretty sure he saw Bob Dylan when he was in the army. And I do that. So if I probably did tell you the Carl story cuz I'm one of those guys. I can't shut up.

I know. But the thing is the Carl story is so good

that and I mean relatable to a lot of people who love Letterman like that is a perfectly that's a Letterman thing to do to the nth degree to the point of when and I don't want to spoil the story but when Carl removes himself Carl yes removes himself from your situation and puts himself in another situation you caused it to follow. And that to me is like it's such a good story. And so that my my question is how in the heck did you wait four years and however many months it was to tell that story on the podcast? That'd be the story I'd be telling everybody. It's such a good one. Anyway, you guys,

I think that was episode one. Okay. Okay.

It's so good.

I've been I have been the the truth is I've been blessed with a uh I think I've led a good life. Okay. I've uh I've been blessed with uh good jobs and over my years my many years on this earth I think I have met many many great people who uh I've absorbed and I believe that they have absorbed me. Yes.

And you know I have uh I have friends in high school who I could do two hours on just you know just Nathan or my friend Cheich or you know and um a lot of that stuff it's like in the movie um um Inside Out. Okay. You know, a lot of those memories are are pushed back and then bing it pops up and then you just it it just comes back into the forefront.

And I can't remember what sparked that story that I I told Mike, but and then you know that story that I told Mike reminded him of the Lonnie Stevens story that he had never told me.

There you go.

And so there it goes. And I really if you compared me to Letterman, that's too kind. It's not true. But uh

I'm saying your antics are inspired by that is a perfect antic inspired by the antics of Dave.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

And I do them all the time, too.

That that's fair. But I I I live my life and I try to do it kind of like David Sedaris. And that David Sedaris can walk from his front porch to his mailbox and he could walk back and write a chapter about

Yeah.

what he saw, what he heard, if there was anybody who happened to walk by.

Yep. And for many, many years, I've believed that David Sedaris is lying to us. He cannot possibly meet this many people. Okay? He cannot possibly find this many quirky things uh on a a subway ride or when uh going to the doctor's office or say he was riding on the subway. Okay. So, but then I meet the woman at Kroger who says, "You want to touch my beats?" And that's not a fake story. That that was every single word of it was true. And my wife is like, I don't know how you meet these people. And I just do. And I think my universe, I open myself to the universe.

By the way, the answer I open myself to the universe.

Yeah.

No, we're going to get to the metaphysical part of it in a second. I just want to note I just want to note the answer to would you like to touch my beats is always a resounding you're damn right I do.

Yeah. Hell yeah. Where you've been all my life. Yeah. But now let's go back to the metaphysics and and yes it is. I I do believe like

like it's funny like you were totally dropped into my life.

I was totally dropped into Jay Ryan's life. He talks about it all the time. Like like I didn't exist and suddenly there's Mike and Mike exists and and like

I just love when that happens and it's happened

so many times when I attach myself to doing things with no outcome but things that I want to do like this show for example. I I you know literally okay let's try it. Let's see what happens. And suddenly all of these people uh including the mighty as you mentioned Rupert Gee dropped into my life and and and like it was no that's this is meant to be. It's like two car parts interacting with each other doing their own thing because of of each other and and I just it feels so great. I love that. You and Mike certainly have that. But the show is so good.

Well I believe I don't believe I met you accidentally. I mean, I I believe I was supposed to meet you.

Yes.

I just There are people who are put into your lives for a reason, and I honestly believe you were one of them.

Yeah.

And I'm very thankful for for the podcast world and for the internet and for everything because you and I would not be friends have this this internet scientific world we live in.

Yeah.

And thank God for that. Seriously. But I I just happened to stumble upon you talking about something about you're starting a podcast and I sent you a message. Hey, I hope you enjoy yours. I love doing mine.

Yeah.

And I didn't do that with the intention of of being a guest. I just

I just sent you a wellw wish.

And here we are all these years later

and we're good friends. I consider you a very good friend. And I believe that Yeah. I believe that if we lived next door, we'd be going out and getting a beer a couple times a week. So,

100%. uh doing hammocks. I don't know what that means. Um my wife and I were at brunch.

My wife and I were at brunch and uh and I just like saying I said it twice because it sounds so pretentious. We were at brunch. There's a third time. And we were talking uh you you you and I are messaging each other. I'm like, "Hey, can we do 2:30? Brunch is taking too long." And and you got back and you said 2:25.

And I'm like, "We have an Accord." And uh cuz you know, Canadian, Canada, US relations, Accords are good things. and and and then you made a a Honda joke and I'm sitting there laughing at

I have a Civic but I don't know what that has to do with anything.

That's right. That's right.

Proud of myself for that.

And and and so I'm just laughing there and I said to my wife I said I just love this guy like like like just such Yeah. And and and and uh again thanks Al Gore for connecting everybody.

Thank you Al Gore.

Right.

Yes.

Right. He's a champion. He's a hero. Um, and so but uh there was a question I wanted to ask you and it just went away because now I'm thinking of uh Vice President Gore in such reverence. Um I I I want to talk about your field trip because you took a field trip this week.

I did.

You were on a great field trip. Isn't it great when work gives you a field trip and then when work gives you a field trip that is like

right up your alley, so far up your alley, it's like going to the ice cream factory. It's it's it's you know,

right? I mean Yeah. So, uh, a lot of people know that I work for Antana TV, okay? The classic television network. My wife is a nurse. She saves lives for a living. In contrast,

in comparison, I tell people what time they can watch Mor and Mindy. Okay, that's what I do for a living. I tell people when the Jeffersons comes on or I tell them if there's if we're going to do an all day marathon of Archie Bunker's place, that's my job. So months ago, we uh were in a meeting and they said, you know, Johnny Carson's 100th birthday is coming up and we were going to go out to Norfol, Nebraska to the Johnny Carson Museum where they were going to have like a three-day thing.

Mhm.

And they decided, nah, we're not going to do that. We think we're going to uh there's budget reasons and there's a lot of other things. And I'm I'm so glad they didn't because they said, you know what we're going to do is uh we we'll figure out something to do with Johnny Carson because we're very happy and very proud of our affiliation with Johnny Carson and having him on our network. He is one of our most popular shows. So they decided they've started doing these theme weeks once a month with like Carson versus the Critters and then you promote a week long of Carson and Joan Emry Zamble animals and that's a that was a fun promo to make.

I'm conf I'm confused. Is it they or we?

Who?

You said they've been running these these promo. It's we like you like you're part of that, right?

We Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We I'm

okay. No, no, just Okay.

We've been running these theme promos for Johnny Carson. One week was Carson versus Critters and then it was uh Carson's crazy characters where the whole week was Art Fern and Carac and him as Superman and him as uh Aunt Blabby. God, he used to beat the crap out of Ed McMahon with his cane when he was Aunt Blabby. Ed could have seriously said, "Look, back up, dude, because Ed could have taken Johnny."

I I think I would think so. You've brought up a whole bunch of things here that I think we should talk to Mark Malov about, but but yeah,

that's true. Anyway, so we're doing a um

Did you do any Reagan? Did you Did you get any Reagan in there?

We did not. Reagan was not a lot of people.

He did an amazing Ronald Reagan.

He did. Anyway, keep keep going.

So, for October, the special theme week is going to be Johnny's 100th birthday party. Mhm.

And so this it is really tough to to say who Johnny's true favorite guests were or most memorable because for 30 years I mean it's hard to pick six episodes that were truly the most memorable. We picked handpicked six episodes that we believe Johnny would have loved having for his uh birthday. Bert Reynolds was on a couple nights that week. Buddy Hackett was on. Dean Martin the episode the only time where Jackie Gleason was on the show was on that week. Jackie Gleason may have been the best guest Carson ever had.

Yeah.

I mean, seriously, Jackie was absolutely incredible. And so, I'm doing all those promos and then um so the deal was it's going to be a week long with special appearances by Doc Severson. Okay.

Years before I started at the at Antana TV, they had ordered I'm sorry, they interviewed Doc Severson. And let me I want to say something incredible about Doc Severson.

So in this I'm going through this all this footage a couple hours of Doc stuff.

Yep.

They they bring him in and he's sitting there and and God he's got the greatest Doc Severson suit. The most wild outlandish thing you can imagine. Beautiful suit. Beautiful.

And they had him do all these affiliate promos um on Cleveland's own WW, you know, whatever. And so he does a Cleveland promo and a St. promo and a something for Houston and something for St. Lewis and and he does all those and then he does all the Antana TV promos and you're watching Johnny Carson on Antana TV and he did it again and if they'd asked him to they you know ask him to read a little faster he did everything that they wanted him to do but perfectly just absolutely perfect. So he does all these promos and then they were good and they took a break and they said, "All right, we're going to sit down and do an interview and so they, you know, fixed his makeup and he got some water and they said, "Okay, doc, you ready?" He goes, "Yeah, but hang on one second." Hey guys, listen. He says, "If there was anything that I did that didn't sound right or I could have done better, let me know and I will come back on my own dime." Oh my gosh.

And I will redo it.

Doc just wants out of that serious.

He says, "I am I am absolutely serious." And they said, "Doc, that we are not going to need you to because I mean he did everything exactly like they wanted to." But he offered to do that. That's the type of guy Doc Severson was. So I I I've never met the man. I'd love to meet the man, but I feel like because for like almost three weeks I'm going through and doing all these Doc Severson promos for for Johnny Carson. So,

y

anyway, so that was what Antana TV did. In Chicago,

there is a little museum, a pop-up museum called the uh the Museum of Broadcast Communications.

Okay. It's a popup.

It's a popup. They they used to have this museum at another location before I was ever in Chicago and it closed because of the pandemic.

Okay.

It had been it had been out of business for a while. They reopened it and it's going to be open for 14 months. So, if you're going to go to Chicago, go before January of 2027.

Yes. So, they've got the Museum of Broadcast Communications and they had the Johnny Carson Centennial Exhibit, 100 Years of Johnny Carson. Amazing.

Absolutely amazing. And you know, I'm a diehard fan of Letterman, but before I knew who Letterman was, I was all about Johnny Carson. Okay.

And when Johnny Carson retired, I I cried. His last episode, I cried. And when he died, boy, did I cry. I had tears. And I just felt like part of me was gone. And because without Johnny Carson, we wouldn't had David Letterman or we wouldn't had Gary Shanling or we wouldn't had Drew Carey or we wouldn't had Ray Romano or

Yeah. Essentially one of the entire scopes of our comedic vision that we know

Yeah.

can be can be traced back mostly can be traced back to somewhere uh within Johnny Carson's mythos.

Absolutely. Yeah. So they uh my company Antana TV is uh you know we sponsored the Johnny Carson exhibit. We were one of the sponsors of the Johnny Carson exhibit. And then what coincided with that exhibit was the evolution of late night television,

right?

Okay. And you know who's in that exhibit? Our boy Dave.

Absolutely. Pat Sjack.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was tell Jack got mentioned. Tell me SJack got mentioned in the display. Please tell me. that got mentioned. Yeah, I was going to say I felt bad for James Cordon cuz James Cordon hosted the Late Late Show I don't know how many times. His face ain't on the wall, but you can see Pat Sjack in a little bitty picture.

Oh, that makes me so happy. That makes me so happy.

Floor there's a there's a little segment on the wall of shows that uh hit and miss or just didn't last or whatever. They mentioned Chvy Chase, Pat Sjack, Thick of the Night with your boy Canadian Uh, hero Allan Thick. Um,

Thick of the Night.

So, James Cordon's not on the wall, but by God, Pat Sjack,

that makes me so happy.

That makes me so happy. Okay, but anyway.

Yeah. So, so I'm going through this uh I'm going through the Johnny Carson Museum and they've got Aunt Blabby's wig and Aunt Blabby's uh sweater. Uh they've got one of the Johnny Carson mugs that he had on. Some was sitting there picking up the mug and yuck yuck with it. And I don't work there, but I wanted to go. Hey, put down Johnny's mug, you ass. What are you doing? That's Johnny Carson's mug. I They Well, they could kick me. Drag me out of their kick and I'll see you in hell. But he's touching Johnny's mug.

They have one of these.

They did not. I do not either.

No. No. Johnny I don't. Mark Brownov's got one. The original came from Carson. Carson had these.

Yeah. No, they don't have

They didn't have any of Johnny's double-ended pencils.

No. Okay.

No. It's all right.

They did have

Malov does.

They did have a Yeah, Mark Malov's gotten a lot of this stuff.

And I'm not saying that negatively. I like

No, it's Envy. Everything is

spread the love a little bit.

I pimped his book. That's all I'm saying.

Oh. Oh, how good is this book?

So good. So good.

Yeah, we had him on the show. Mark Meloff was amazing. He's an amazing guest. He was he was a guest of the I love Okay, so your show every once in a while has guests.

Very rarely. Yeah.

Yes. But Malov is one of them. That's

Malov has been on there. Adam Native has been on four times.

Has he really?

Yeah.

Okay. I got to get back on. I think I've only been on twice.

Yeah. Well, we we'll have you back on. Yeah. I thought you've been on three times because we did the crossover with the Letterman YouTube thing

with the YouTube episode. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Which Dave's EP watched. Like that's the crazy. Like that was weird. That was he came up to me and talked about

I heard about that and I'm like

so uh but yeah

except this is his report. He had a little clipboard looked at it. He he he viewed it and he's like yeah it's harmless. Don't we don't have to worry about that's all he had that's all he had to do.

He's like put the dogs back in their cage. They're fine.

That's right. Is this anything? No, it's not anything. No, it's

No, they're not they're not a threat at all. Not anything whatsoever. So, okay, you go to this thing and it's up for 14 months. Very good calendar math, by the way. Um, so, so, so for those of us who love this stuff here, it's a great reason to go to Chicago. Do you think somebody could spend like somebody like you or I who who goes and reads through things and and and could we spend four hours there, five hours? Like, is it it sounds like it's pretty in-depth from everything you've told?

You sure could. You sure could. If you you know, I breeze through it several times. Um, if you read everything and then there's all these QR codes on the wall to where you can click on the QR codes. I don't know the the kids today in their phones and their Donkey Kong and

I don't you know if you if you hit the QR code thing if you tap it if you if you swipe the QR code Mike if you

swipe it

double tap it

you can watch these clips on your phone. So there's all over the place where you can watch these great clips of of Conan and and Letterman and Carson and stuff. So yeah.

Yeah, it's absolutely worth the money. And uh but yeah, Carson had the you can sit at the desk, you can see Aunt Blabby. There's a Johnny Carson suit, there's an Ed McMahon suit, there's a Doc Severson suit, all encased in glass. Bonk bonk bonk one after another. There's a wall full of more to come. Uh gels. Okay, they had the artist who designed some of these more to comes and they donated I don't know how many a ton of them and there's one giant wall full of more to come

and I mean I you would who would have thought that more to come would have become a thing.

Yeah.

But there's a thing in the museum about more to come.

Do you do you use more to come in your daily life in any way? I should.

Well, well, I suppose we all we all should. Yeah, I I I use it.

Actually, actually, I have. When I host when uh when I was in college, I hosted a game show called Useless Knowledge

and we basically ripped off remote control.

Sure.

Yeah. As one does.

Start to finish. It was remote control. And we would use more to come going in and out of the of the brakes.

Oh, you would? Oh, that's a cool homage. I love to Johnny. Yeah,

I love whenever I see it. I know, you know, almost always I I I feel I I I don't ever always ask, but whenever I do see it somewhere, I assume it's a it's a Carson um homage and and and I do it when I sign off

certain emails to certain people, I will sign off more to come Mike.

And um

yeah, I I uh I certainly love that turn of phrase as well. I mean, you're right. You know what? It just makes me go, okay, we got to get Mark Carson on the podcast more. Like here we have the artist who did so many of the bumpers, the bumper art,

and they're all good. They're all so good. And we have him like at our disposal right here. He's a friend. He's a friend of us.

And you know, I got to talk to him more, too. There's just

What's that thing on your desk in front of the late night bumpers book? The the with the letterman face on it. What is that?

This?

Yeah,

this is a piece of wood.

Okay.

Yeah, it's a piece of wood. Um, I'm gonna be releasing a video soon. Uh, and by soon is when I get around to it. Um, I have a friend who owns a memorabilia shop.

And, uh, he does,

uh, he's built this business over 25 years, almost 30 years actually. Um, he used to be the kid that would go to like hockey card or baseball card conventions with like a briefcase, right?

He had like a roll of 20s. and he turned that, he was like a 15-year-old doing that and he turned that into this massive memorabilia business. He has two stores. He has a sports store and then he has a toy store. Um, collectibles of all all sorts of stuff. Every range from, you know, the smallest all the way to,

you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars or some of these items. He's got like a bunch of game used Wayne Gretzky goal sticks. Uh, you know, like like

that's cool.

Yeah. So, so, so they recently decided to do their own in-house framing. And so, what they did was they've bought all this equipment and and are going to create all of these customized pieces. So, you could take your ticket stub and the poster, the gig poster for the YouTube show that you went to when you were a kid, and then the band signed it afterwards. You hand it to them, and what will come back to you is this framed piece all with like laser cut YouTube art inside it and all this sort of crazy stuff. So, I have one now in my office. Yeah. The other version of the picture, my picture with Dave that I won't stop talking about. Similar to your dad, like seeing Bob Dylan. I won't stop talking about that. I have

I saw him. He was in California. A little bar.

He walked into a like a bar, right? And then in the corner there's a man with a guitar. He was playing. Okay. I'm sorry.

Um

Oprah, call Dave. So, so my friend Jason, um, he's also he and I have been doing standup together and stuff. We're both, you know, a couple businessmen in the community that are really trying to chase the things that we love. So, we've been doing standup together and a few other things. He's been a friend of mine for a long time. He gave me um a framed piece that has my other version of that picture um the picture that Jay gave me um of Dave. So, both two signed pictures and then they actually created the graphic

to laser cut of Letterman's logo which is on your beanie cap toque toque up here in Canada as we like to say.

Um and and and and they put it into the picture and it's just it's beautiful. By the way, shout out to Walter Kim's daughter who is uh the one that designed this. Um

and so anyway, it's this beautiful beautiful piece and it's just it's absolutely gorgeous. I shot a video of the reveal and that's the video we'll release here soon. Um, just an absolutely gorgeous piece. And so then they gave me that piece of wood that had the original test laser cut of the graphic.

Nice.

And we've actually gotten some some some rock actual stone coasters uh with the logo on it. I'm sending that I'm You know what? This episode's going to be out whenever it's out. The week that this episode comes out, I'm actually sending a Canadian care package to them, including coasters with that. And so this was the prototype for the coaster.

Okay, cool.

Well, anyway, that's a that's a five minute answer to an eight-second question.

But if you ever wanted Well, I shouldn't say that.

Well, speaking of the Dave logo.

Yes.

When I was in Chicago, I had my blue uh Letterman uh this shirt on.

Yep.

And I uh because we went to the museum a couple of days before the uh before the big grand opening of it.

Yep. to to put some things in because we also did an I Dream of Genie exhibit which I'll talk to you about that in a second.

Um, but I had my Letterman shirt on and I got my picture taken with part of the Letterman uh the the war for late night exhibit

and anyway I wear it back to the hotel and I get in the elevator and these two uh gentlemen and they ain't from here. Um, not that there's a problem with that, but they looked at me and they said, they pointed at my shirt and pointed it at me and I says, "Is that you?" said I said, "No, no." I like one, why would I be wearing my own face on my own shirt? But I said I said, "No, THIS IS DAVID LETTERMAN." OH, DAVID LETTERMAN. I said, "Yes, yes." Fantastic. I'm not trying to sound I'm not trying to make I don't want a Hankazeria apoo. It's nondescript. It's perfect. There's no country on the earth that sounds like that.

Oh, David Letterman. Yes. And I said, and and one guy says, "He he's not on TV anymore." I said, "Well, he's got my ne Oh, my next guest." Yes. Okay. So, so they they knew my next guest, but Oh, David Letterman, they said. I'm like, "Okay." But yeah, is that you? No, it's not. It's not me. Wish I had the money.

Oh my god.

Oh, man. But um so so there was a Johnny Carson exhibit y and then there was the evolution of late night TV. Okay. And this one you saw

and this is where I got kind of annoying with my co-workers who were with me at the exhibit. I'm like I've been that guy that I've got that got that on the wall. There was a CBS employee of the year poster framed and there's me you looking at it and I'm like I've got this I've got this poster up. Yes. Darren, you have almost every

Yeah. the TV guides in the in the case. I had almost all of them except for one. And I've got a stack of TV guides here that they don't have.

And I was talking

to some of the museum curators there.

Yep.

I'm considering I was like, "God, if I I should donate some stuff and on loan from Darren Cox."

Oh my god. Is that a thing?

Well, it's possible. Yeah, you could loan stuff to a museum. Oh,

be on loan from and then there would be my name, right? Cuz I mean th this ain't in the museum.

No. Gosh, no. Of course not.

Oprah called Dave. These bumper stickers. That's not in the museum.

Mad Magazine.

Yep.

No, that's not in the museum. Um, this this really should have been in the museum.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

I don't know why it wasn't. That's This absolutely should have been in the museum cuz it was and then my the cream of my dog world magazine.

Oh, see

I only know one other person who has this and that's my friend Sandy Skane and I bought it for her. So, but I mean this TV guide could

I feel like Don Giller has that in a filing cabinet somewhere.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this should have been in the museum. Letterman's first Emmy one from his morning show, right? H how do I have it? I shouldn't have showed that. You need to delete over that. They're probably looking for that.

Are you okay? Something that is in the museum that I have is Johnny Carson's album.

Oh, that's lovely.

But they have the gold the gold and its frames. So I was

cuz uh But yeah, I mean,

do they have any of Johnny's clothes?

His clothes?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they do mine.

Yeah, they Yeah, they've got uh they got a suit of his, one of Ed's and one of Doc's.

No, no, no. But like Johnny Carson had like I've got a sport coat upstairs that's like Johnny Carson.

That's what I'm saying. One of Johnny Cool.

Yeah, cuz he wore he wore his own suits.

Gotcha.

Yeah. But you know, it's like and you could learn so much because you know there's still people today who forgot that Johnny was on a show called Do You Trust Your Wife which eventually became Who Do You Trust? Yep. And that's where he first met Ed McMahon. They worked together on that show before they did the Tonight Show, right?

Yep.

But you move over to the evolution of Late Night and there's a lot of stuff of Letterman. There's some stuff uh uh from Conan O'Brien. Triumph the insult comic dog.

I know. I love that picture of you with Triumph. You're going to send me all these pictures so we can overlay them throughout the conversation.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put do whatever you want.

Yeah. Okay. Good. Because like

Triumph is in there. That was the picture you sent me like because you had told me about this and I was going to try and figure a way. I was in Toronto last week and it was just bedum. Um, but you had given me the opportunity.

Hey, cuz you got to go in early. You got to go into this thing a night early. Like you had a sw what they call a suare. Were you at a suare at this?

Yes, I was. I was I was hobnobbing with Chicago elite.

Pinky up.

Really?

Pinky up while you drink your while you drink your can of PBR. Mhm.

Yep.

Um they had Yeah, they had some Conan stuff. They had the Will Ferrell Harry Kerry costume.

Oh, that's fantastic.

I know. But then, you know, you read along the wall and they've got the whole thing about, you know, when Johnny left and it was Dave and Jay. Was it going to be Dave or Big Jaw? Jay. But by the way, I also have a Jay Leno at 10 poster that I got from my little TV station.

But I'm like, "No, I'm not going to donate that. We don't need more Jay in this museum. I got a late night with Conan O'Brien keyring that I've had since uh I bought this in the gift shop the day they gave me the tickets to see uh Conan O'Brien.

That's fantastic.

So, uh but you know, yeah, it's like I I love the museum. The museum was awesome. Uh could they have had could they have had more Letterman? Sure. Yeah,

they could have had an entire warehouse the size of Maryland

full of David Letterman stuff and I I don't think it would have been enough stuff. So, but they did might suggest that Dave deserves his own exhibit somewhere.

I I Yeah, I agree.

If exhibits were a thing anymore that people go to see I sure hope people go to see this thing and and and and populate it.

I'm telling you, you got to go. If you're in Chicago, go to the Museum of Broadcast Communications. You absolutely you just have to. You really really have to. Also, in the museum, they have Bozo the Clown. Okay. Chicago.

Yep.

That's famous for WGNTV. Bozo the Clown exhibit. And then we had the I Dream of Genie exhibit. Okay. Celebrating 60 years of I Dream of Genie.

And we created this. Dan Brown, one of my bosses, was the brainchild of this. Designed this wall that looked like the inside of Jeanie's bottle. It's a great picture. On a couch, have your picture taken inside Jeanie's bottle. And Libby, my wife, God, love her. I love her so much. She was so jealous. She says, "I want to BE IN JEANIE'S BOTTLE." NO WAY. That's beautiful. But this is this was the thrill for me because here it is. I've worked in television since 1993. So that's 32 going on 33 years.

Mhm.

I edited a video that was part of this loop that we have in the monitor at the I Dream of Genie exhibit. So there's a video that I made on loop in this museum.

That's fantastic.

How cool is that?

It's super cool. to a very select few. That select few. It's really cool.

Just to a select few. But again, to that select few, you are the cream that has risen to the top, my friend.

People would walk by. I'm like, you know, I edited that that video.

Oh god.

This wasn't in the museum.

Yeah, that's OG, too, right?

That's OG. Yep. Yep. So, uh, yeah, it's it was so amazing. Barbara Eden was supposed to be there, but or we heard she was coming, uh, and then at the last minute either either she wasn't feeling well, her

either she wasn't feeling well or her husband wasn't feeling well and they were unable to come. So, but yeah, they would have it would have been a mad house if Barbara Eden had been there. I feel like if Barbara Eden had a chance over her post Genie career to get out there into like

the convention show circuit and the circuits where you know folks like her are are brought on for appearances and things like that.

I feel like she in particular would have a lot of eclectic stories of interesting things interesting things that people would have come up to her and said

oh yeah

women and men. I just feel like because of who she was and what she did, I believe there's a lot of people who would throw a lot of maybe inside voice type stuff at her,

right? Well, she's done those not ComicCon, but um whatever you call the something consens

conventions. Yeah, she's done those a lot. and they uh were fortunate enough, my company, they interviewed her a while back and she was absolutely just the nicest, sweetest, kindest

and she had great things to say about Larry Hagman and the producers and she the her costume felt just like pajamas and she loved it and it was such a great experience and she just had so many great things to say and she couldn't have been more pleasant. So, I was bummed that I didn't get to meet Barbara Eden, but you know, that's how it was.

Yeah. Uh, we're a couple of 50-year-old guys, um, that are, you know, in our 50s. I'm almost 50, you're 55. I think it's important to note that distinction. Um,

yeah, I'll always be older than you.

That's right. That's right.

Um, it's interesting the idea, and you and I think you and I have talked about this before. I certainly have on the show here before. idea of passing the torch of knowledge

to different generations and how like it's so interesting

that broadcasting when you look at the scope of human history is such a small speck

of time and oh yeah and and and but it has impacted because I would say you and I are probably you know the kids if not the grandkids of of of broadcasting you know our grandparents both of our grandparents came before television and they were radio people like and and and and that was So you

Yeah. If I can Yeah. My dad

Yeah.

Um so they didn't have a TV when he was a kid,

right?

And there was one person in their neighborhood who had a TV and they were friends and they would uh let them come over on whatever night and watch Groucho.

Yeah.

And so the the the cable was I think he said it was thrown over the branches or something so that the people wouldn't drive over it or something. I mean, he listen Yeah. He listened to the radio before he, you know, watched TV. And when I was a kid, I mean, we had three channels.

Yep.

And sometimes you could get PBS in, but not all the time. That's uh with with Sesame Street.

And then with our with our house, we had an antenna on top of the TV and he had a rotary dial that changed it. And when the rotary dial broke, okay, instead of buying another rotary dial, my father, Marvin Cox, would climb on top of the house with his hand and turn the antenna north to south so that we could get the CBS station instead of the NBC station.

Wow. So dad would literally risk his life climbing on top of the house to change the channel with the rotary dial, you know, cuz seriously, North I think North's got the NBC station and South got CBS. I can't remember which one it was, but you would change it and it would I'm not going to

What What would it do? Sorry. And it would take three to four minutes to to get it. You would slowly slowly go from snow and then you would you would like catch and that's why TV shows I'm think had like the fourminute intros and was like Alan Alda me. Yes. Mash mash is on. Yes. And the opening credits plays half the song. Yeah. No, it's uh it's funny. My wife and I just started Parks and Wreck again. And in season one of Parks and Wreck,

it had a longer intro and the intro just shrunk throughout the series of Parks and Wreck down to like

very very very very short. But to go back to the original point, you and I Okay, so we're the grandkids of this. We're the kids are the grandkids of what you're talking about here.

Yeah.

And and now I look at like my granddaughter

and when she has some screen time, she has

sweetheart by the way.

Oh yeah. She's the best. Yeah. Goodness. She's the best best human walking the planet is my granddaughter. She's she's she's she's so bent in such great ways. I'm going to be doing some stuff with my granddaughter. The other day I I I I shot sort of a test episode of of my granddaughter watching Dave throw off towers and she was immersed. Ain't no distraction there. She was like the entire segment she and every time a new item would come up she'd BE LIKE, "OH, LIKE WHAT'S it going to do when she throws off the tower?"

There's hope. There's hope for the future. Yeah, we're gonna be we're going to be doing some watch along stuff and I'll I'll put it out here. Um because it's so funny because she is she's seven, but she's also hilarious and um

yeah. So anyway, but I look at what she watches and and just it's like 8 seconds of this and six seconds of this and scrolling or or or watching very very very short attention span, right? And and I mean yes, I worry about that, but I'm also like well, you know what, the human spirit is uh it will endure. It's endured everything, but we're just enduring a lot of change really really quickly. I don't think you can fight it. I don't think the

You can't You can't

You just It's That's You're going to have to embrace it.

Yeah. It's a new normal for a new generation. And as you and I get older, we get entrenched. The cement dries that much more for us until we become statues that are no longer capable of learning anything. And but but

what a metaphor. What a

Is it the mushrooms?

Must be. It must be the mushrooms. That's cool.

I'm sending this to you.

There's one right there. There's an

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sending this to you, man.

Thank you, brother.

For that metaphor alone.

Um, but like there's this like I wonder if Allara is going to have a need

to tell her kids or her grandkids about the cultural phenomenon that is K-pop demon hunters when when when she's older. Like I just I don't know. I don't know if if if that's going to stick with her or not. Uhhuh.

Because I just like even I Dream of Genie, you talk about it. That show ended five years before I was born, right? But yet I would watch it after school. It would be one of the the the the uh syndicated shows that I would watch. I'm pretty familiar with that. I'm pretty familiar with the Beverly Hillbillies, even though that show was off the air before I was even born. Right. and and and then of course the things that we really really attach to like you and I and and and these other you know few dozen people um who who have attached ourselves to Letterman and and and

it's it's such a part of us

and yet it's so temporary

like you look at now how fast things are going and and and changing when it comes to this broadcasting is going away in so many respects

but I got to tell you I sure like the last breath of fire that late night television is taking um when it comes to it's not going quietly into the night and I love

it's going down. It's going down swinging.

Is it ever?

You're you're grabbing it by the arms. We haven't talked about this. What's

and it's kicking its legs saying I'll see you in hell.

Yeah, Late Night TV is is absolutely going down swinging.

Let me let me ask you something. I know this is your show and I'm not trying to take over as host. My friend Cod and I were on WGN radio promoting the museum and the uh the anniversary uh the birthday editions of Johnny Carson.

Yeah.

And the lady asked us if uh you know cuz I told her you know Johnny Carson has been off air longer than he was on air. Okay. He was on air 30 years. He's been off I think 32 years something which it's crazy. Hard to fathom that.

That messes me up.

She said she said you know and people are still talking about it. She said, "Do you think people will still be talking about Colar or or uh Jimmy Kimmel or David Letterman or something?"

I know I'm biased.

Uhhuh.

But I think 30 years from now, Letterman Yes. I don't know so much about I I don't know if Co Bear will be remembered this many years after. And mainly because I'm I mean, he's talented and he has a good show and he does a really good interview. Okay. He does a very good interview.

Yep.

But he doesn't do the things that um that really make him stand out like Art Fern and Carac.

Yeah.

And uh throwing off the building and putting on the Velcro suit, you know. And uh so as talented as Steven Colbear is, I don't know if if people will still be talking about his episodes that many years later or Kimmy Kimmel or Fallon.

It's it's Yes.

See, and I think part of the reason that of that is it's it's ironic in so many ways because these shows

many many people have made the comment that these shows have taken things that Dave has done and run with it, right? Mhm.

The problem is is that the shows are also to me presented the same way.

Like how many people are talking about, hey, that very memorable episode of the five:00 news 25 years ago, you know, it becomes a daily consumable that gets then recycled. And and and and the thing about

that Johnny and that Dave did is they created moments that transcended that by far. They were not shows that just talked about the events of the day like the evening news is, you know, just with with video or um, you know, entertaining style or or or whatever, they they created stuff that I think has a lot of substance to it. I think I think that the stuff that that that that that uh the entire team at the Daily Show did as an example. Yeah.

In the Daily Show's first, you know,

five years,

the stunts that they would pull, I mean, Colbear

on the rapport before he went over to Late Show or The Late Show. um you know the stunts that he would do I think not only Lettermanesque but worth a generation looking at and and and saying hey

this was important the same way you and I are doing that with Letterman. Um you know I think that there are people out there who like John Stewart that much.

I don't know I don't know if like I I say this all the time about

like it appears that Jay Leno doesn't have a Don Giller. It just appears that it like like it's the cult following thing, right? Where where these people who are like,

you know, expert level, whatever it is they are, Dawn being an archivist,

um attach themselves and and can identify so much with a show or or or something. It's almost like team sports, you know, people who really get into a to to a team. I don't know how many how big Leno's following still is who aren't car enthusiasts. And that's no offense to him and and what he does. I I hear you.

They're selling out everywhere still. People still want to go see them. That kind of a thing. I just think it's a little bit different with certain ones. Like certain bands become up in Canada, Rush or or or or Pink Floyd or or or some of these bands that have or The Grateful Dead, uh Fish, you know, these bands that have these unbelievable cult followings where the people, you know, whatever that number ends up being really really go to the mattresses to support them.

Yeah.

And and and I think Letterman's got a lot of that. I think he's got a lot of that. And you know, and and to to that point, and and not to offend Jay, but of I'm a bigger fan of Letterman.

Yeah.

Jay was Jay was talented. Jay had his Jay had his niche. Jay was a

Jay was talented. Okay.

Yeah.

And I know Jay's not on my algorithm,

but you would think that you would see more uh Leno stuff pop up, especially as much as I'm on the Facebooks. And the

That's my point. Yeah. I I just, you know, randomly don't see that. Al Conan stuff will pop up. Uh Jimmy Kimmel pops up and I'm a fan of late night TV and all all sorts of that stuff, but I don't see stuff of uh Big Jaw popping up on there.

No. Like, see, the only time I really made a point to watch um Jay Leno's Tonight Show was um was when Kevin Smith was on. There was a he did a run where he and where where where where Jay would send him on remotes and I'm a big Kevin Smith fan so I would yeah I would I would watch that but like I'm curious why and Kevin Smith has this huge cult following of people.

Why aren't there people who are Leno enthusiasts and Kevin Smith enthusiasts that are celebrating this body of work that they did together which is you know I don't know 30 30 appearances or whatever whatever it was. But I just don't see that either. And um

and it's funny like like when it comes to cult followings, the guy who seems to me that that that that might have the ability like somebody discovers it if they can get enough episodes and whatnot is is Ferguson. I think I honestly think Ferguson I hear like it's so funny people will ask, "Oh yeah, okay. You host that Letterman podcast about Dave Letterman." You know, I love Craig Ferguson. I get that all the time from people. People loved him.

Yes.

And um you know I Yeah. It's it's it's interesting the idea about about this uh the fragmentation of things and that's what happened when the when the genre expanded you know

you know cuz cuz Letterman wasn't you know it's famously told that Letterman wasn't allowed to do anything like Johnny. You weren't allowed to do the monologue. You weren't allowed to have a big band. You can't have these guests on. And they said well okay. They told us all the things that we can't do. So these are the things that we can do. We can put on a Velcro suit. we can ride down the steps and we can throw things off the building and we can do all those things. So, I mean, Letterman just totally took that format and made it his own. Yeah.

I mean, now he he even admits that he stole some stuff from Steve Allen,

of course,

you know,

but whatever. and Johnny too by the way. And by the way,

yeah,

um when folks read this book,

um Love Johnny Carson, and please do read it,

you will see how much stuff that Carson did first that Letterman did do. Like there's there are so many things. Um Mark and I had a had a big two-part episode, which I'm going to talk to you about here in a second. um big two-part episode where we actually talked about how many of these things that we thought Dave invented, but actually they were little remixes of things that Johnny did. And and like Johnny, his first 10 years, he did a lot of stunts.

I don't remember Johnny Carson as a stunt guy, as a guy going out of the studio doing a lot of things. In the first 10 years, he did a lot and and Malov talks about it in the book here. And and it's funny, you think about the first 10 years of that show

and then it moves over to Burbank,

you know, and then it gets to the place where it's an hour instead of 90 minutes. And that's about the time that I kind of came online.

Yes.

And and saw it. And that was my impression of the Tonight Show. But that previous 20 years was fascinating. Just the same as somebody who came on board with Letterman in high school at Late Show time and that's all they knew was Late Show Dave,

right? I would say that the comparison between that first 12 years at Late Night and Johnny's first 10 years in New York um had a lot of comparables to them

and and from everything from um you know the host finding themselves and getting better and and and battling from adversity but also the content and then after that first you know 10 years for Carson, 12 years for Letterman when he moved over um everything changes, everything evolves and it grows and it and it it moves into something different. Um but certainly the comparison is apt. Um you talked about 30 years ago, what 30 years from now what people are going to be talking about, you know, 32 years from now. Um one thing that I do think will be universal is that people will be making uh jokes about Jimmy Fallon having no talent. I believe that will still be happening 30 years from now. I think that'll I think it'll endure. I think it'll endure. And now I say that tongue and cheek because I think Fallon has a metric ton of talent. I think he's very talented, but I just love making the joke whenever we can.

I I don't know. I mean,

I saw the clip of him I think it was we I believe he hosted Saturday Night Out Live after he after he left.

Sure.

And they did

Yes. Yes.

They It was what's it called? Um Time Travel Family Feud. Okay. when he played the young John Travolta and then went around the camera and changed outfits and then played the current John Travolta and I'm like my god that may be my favorite impression.

It's so good.

Seriously, cuz you know it started out so weird you know and you know came Mr. Connor and there's like I'm very happy to be here and this is what's going to happen and so I can't do it justice but I'm like I didn't I wasn't paying attention. I didn't realize that John Travolta became a completely different person. But Jimmy Fallon's impression of new Travolta, old Travolta, I'm sorry, man. That ranks right up there with whip my hair back and forth. Neil Young.

My Here's You didn't ask me. Here's my problem with Fallon.

Yeah.

He keeps smacking the desk.

Yeah. Yeah.

He keeps smacking the desk. And there are people who say he's too nice. I don't care that he's too nice. I like nice people. Okay. If I didn't like nice people, I wouldn't be on your show. Okay, I like nice people. I don't want to watch an host a show all the time, right? Yeah, he's nice to his guests and yeah, he laughs a lot and he wants them to do well and okay, but he keeps smacking the desk and that bugs me. That just bugs me.

That's that's and that's in cement now. That's one of the things that he has it's become a it's like Conan has one that um he he's broken it for the most part since the podcast but I hear him on the podcast as well guest comes on and he's like oh hey great nice to see you so much to talk about that's the thing Conan used to always say there's so much to talk about

right

that was just his his thing like it was his thing to the point where it did not fade into the background for me it came into the forefront every single time he said it kind of like found and again I love Conan like love Um,

oh yeah,

I'm Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Conan and I I mean I remember because uh I started in TV in 93.

Yeah.

And uh that was a I started a few weeks before Letterman moved to CBS

before the late night show.

Before Yeah. before the Late Show uh evolved or came on to CBS

and our NBC affiliate in there was Johnson City, Kingsport, Bristol. Okay. The WCYB station did not run late night with Conor O'Brien. They ran something else in its place

and it was months before they figured he's not getting cancelled and then they put him on. So, I missed a lot of the uh the beginning of Conan O'Brien show

and then it came on and you could, you know, you watch him and yeah, he was awkward and yeah, he wasn't getting the great guests and and some just like this is and why did they hire him, you know, like how did you get this show?

But I never disliked him. I never once disliked him cuz the first time I saw Conan O'Brien, Letterman had him on and he brings him on. He and he he wishes him luck with the new show and Conan said that if he tells a joke and it doesn't do well, what they're going to do is go to a shot of that Native American Indian who uh is down going down the creek and his canoe is seeing all the trash and they're going to do the close-up of the tear coming down his eye. And I said, "Okay, that's brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant." And it was from that moment on I'm like, I like this guy.

Yep.

And I have been on team Conan. I've wished him well ever since day one.

Yeah. Me too.

And when he when he got screwed and taken off the Tonight Show, I was Don't blame Conan.

Don't blame Conan.

I'm still not I'm still not despite still not blaming Conan.

Conan is a family man.

Don't blame Conan. So, and then it's like he's he's got that incredible podcast now. My god, my this my show

is nothing to go podcast.

But like, okay, so the guys who get the cult following or the guys who in my opinion move the ball down the field, like Carson gets a pass, and I shouldn't even say gets a pass. Carson,

he went the longevity route with one franchise

because by that point, you know, Par had been on, I think, five years and Allan maybe four and and and and

they considered that a marvelous um achievement. It was marvelous that he could be on five years and then Carson's like, "Okay, hold my beer." And and goes and becomes the most powerful man in

in television certainly if not if not up there in entertainment um throughout that legendary run. Okay, there's Carson's mark.

Yeah,

there's Carson's Mark. Okay, so and it's the Tonight Show. Okay. And it's the, you know, the impenerable impenetrable fortress. So then you got Letterman. Okay. So he goes and makes his own like why does Letterman become the cult guy and maybe the air apparent um you know leaves and and literally goes and creates a franchise for the first time in history that not only can is competitive but can actually is capable of beating the Tonight Show.

Yeah.

And and and showed Okay. And I'll win the longevity game now too.

Right. Okay. And and of course the differences of the shows and and and and Dave sensibility, all that stuff, right?

Yeah.

Jay gets the Tonight Show. He takes over the the mantle and and has said many many many times, all I cared about was staying number one. I just wanted to write the ship. You know, his his his um uh the the narrative that he likes to put out there is I, you know, got the Tonight Show at number one. I you know, had the Tonight Show. It was number one when I left it. It's like a I'm supposed to hold on to it. Like that's his rule. like that that that wasn't what Johnny that's not what Johnny did. Johnny, you know, made his own mark and Jay was like, I'm just going to take this mark and I'm going to coast with it from a franchise perspective or at least that's the narrative he likes to he likes to put out there these days.

Whatever. Okay. Now, you look at a guy like

Co Bear

30 years from now, I think they're going to be talking about Col Bear because Colbear went, "Okay, the rapport is amazing." And anybody who does any research into the rapport and realizes the achievement that that man did for that whatever it was, seven years or nine years, whatever it was,

something like that,

doing the rapport and then taking over for David Letterman,

and then getting screwed with his pants on when he was number one,

right,

to then move into whatever it is he's going to move into now, which is going to be awesome.

Conan O'Brien, same deal. like like Cole Bear, that's what Kod No has a cult following, you know, took over for David Letterman. Okay. And that show was awesome and and and and kept, in my opinion, the franchise of Late Night

consistent. I don't believe it's been consistent since Conan left.

Conan kept the spirit of Late Night alive.

Yes. It seemed like the same show.

It was wacky, quirky. You know, you had uh someone who like why are they on television?

Yes.

That was a Letterman, you know. Why? Like what's like my uncle Bob, I remember when I was a kid, I'm at his house and the one of the commercials or promos for the morning show comes on and Bob's like, "Oh, I like this guy." And he's like, "Hey, our show's coming on and it's in color, you know, whatever." And I was like, that was the first time I ever saw David Letterman. I was just a kid and I missed all the appearances on Carson and the guest hosting and and and all that. And so I was so young

that when Letterman was on late night, um it's like it was during the school week and I couldn't watch him until the summer.

Yep.

And then

that was me too. Sleepovers and summertime and and whatnot was mostly

Yeah. Cuz it's like on Friday nights you couldn't watch them because they had Friday night videos. He was once a week.

So I missed so much of that. But then, you know, it's like when I started my career and uh and I would watch him, I would record him every night and I would watch Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, usually on Saturday and on Sunday I would watch Thursday and Friday because I would record him every night because uh I you know you got to go to work the next day.

And so that's how I kept up with Letterman all those years. And so but

same thing for me. Uh and and and I think you're exactly right. When Conan took over, it was like if Late Night had a voice,

Conan still used that voice, but yet entirely um made the show his own,

but it still felt like late night. Kimmel or Fallon, I should say.

He played

like Saturday Night Out Live to me.

Seth feels like weekend uh weekend update.

That's right.

And I like Seth.

Me, too.

I like Seth a lot. I do too. But doesn't feel like late night. There it is. Yeah, there you go. But doesn't feel like late night in the from the tradition of what we're talking about with Dave and Conan moves over to take over the Tonight Show,

right?

Then Conan goes to move over to take over the Tonight Show and it's like, okay,

the wrong has been writed and and that's that's that's going to happen. And then and then that debacle happened and then he goes and has this amazing show. Like I love the TBS run. I love the TBS run.

This TBS show was phenomenal.

It was so good. and and and and so and then then what's the different thing moves over and is trailblazing in podcast

and and and his deal with Sirius and all of these things that he's doing that way.

So Conan to me

it's the the the through line is these people that are doing things that are different. They're taking it they're showing they can do the normalization

stereotype of what late night is as a genre, but then they go and do something completely different with it. And Dave's still doing that because he's doing the long form now and he's doing other these other things that he's doing. Um, so you know that that's why I think that that that Conan will have that that that that enduring cult following. I believe that Colbear will have it as well.

Um, Kimmel I'm not so I I don't know. Um, Kimmel to me is like

I think he will now that his show was

ripped and four days later he's like and then came back. I think that's we're gonna be looking at that 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now. Maybe

that they tried to take they tried to take his show away and he's like,

I don't think so. Well, actually, the fans said, I don't think so.

Well, and and I mean that number just came out uh you know, Disney, they said it was a million people. Like it was three million total, but the net uh result as of because of the Kimmel,

an entire million people

um canceled their Disney Plus subscription. That is, you know, I'm grateful.

That's what happens when people unite.

Yeah. Yeah.

And and say they're tired of this

Yep.

That's what happens.

Well, and like you said earlier, late night's going down swinging and and and uh I love that. Kimmel to me is like, okay, so you or I are are are are very much acolytes of everything that Dave did. And if we have any talent in this world, if we can put it to use in a way that is sort of similar that can show that it was inspired by Dave and even be in that world at all, we're very very happy. I would put Kimmel into that category. Yeah.

And and and and to me where he and Dave are so different.

Um like don't get me wrong, I love Kimmel show. I really do. I I love the I love the things that he does with his family members. I think that's really the the the remotes and the and the extras that he does are good. Um he's a good interviewer

and I believe that he's a phenomenal interviewer as well. Yeah, absolutely. But then he's also like where Dave was the counterculture, counter the boss, counter the network, you know, um be um you know, be perhaps a little bit contradictive um just as in in nature.

Um Kimmel is exactly the opposite. He's he's also you and I in the sense of wait a second, Disney owns this You mean I get to have every Avenger on my couch? I get to have every Star Wars I get to Wait, we hold on. We can do like things at their events and extras and Okay. Yeah, I'm in, you know, and imagine, you know, and and and is just as excited.

Mhm.

To not be counterculture because he's he's he's the guy for Disney. And then now he's at the place where where I love where Kimmel's at

is he's also saying, you know what, my family's important. Work life balance. Work life balance. As a late night host, I'm taking the summer off. I'm having guest hosts again. Hey, I'm gonna take one pages out of Johnny's book and I'm not even gonna care about the idea that this person is popping more po and and and I'm not gonna be worried and have a scarcity mentality. I'm gonna enjoy this job while I have it.

Holy smokes. Like to me, um I love Kimmel for that. I I I think he's fantastic for that. I don't know that that gets in the cult following though that that these other f hosts get,

right?

So, I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. You're you're a damn good listener, sir. Um,

hey, can we work on something? Can we can we do something here? I need I need you to shoot some We're gonna shoot something right here. Right now. Okay.

Right here. Right now on this very stage.

Yep. Right. Yeah, we're going to do it. So, so

I don't do part one, part two episodes very often.

Um, I probably should with some of the longer shows that we have. I probably should cut them up into two parts. That's something that Shecky appreciated. Like when I had my my my uh

uh my my interview with or my conversation with Felicia Collins, I broke that one up into two and Shecky was like, "That was a smart move because I was interested in the entire conversation, but not everybody can sit around for two and a half hours."

I've noticed that with our uh almost all my episodes now are under an hour.

Oh man. Yeah. If I can get them, if I can get them between 45 and 50 minutes, uh, that's just dandy because that seems like, and for us, yeah, it's what's worked for irritable dad syndrome.

Sure.

Uh, people seem to be very comfortable with that amount of time, uh, before they really start getting tired of listening to our

Yeah. Um, man, you get 45 minutes. You're lucky. I get 45 seconds if people are tired listening to my Um, I uh I I I got to tell you. Okay. So, so, but we're breaking. We broke Mark Malov's episode up into two. And the reason we did is because it's very meaty. Like I like we dive in. Like it's a it's a deep dive

because this book here is is so well researched, well written. I've said it so many times. It has 40 pages of of sources at the end. Like the bibliography section.

It's not even an index. It's a bibliography. 40 pages. Like it is so well researched. It's such a beautiful book. because it was written by Mark Meloff, the king of research.

The king of research. Yes.

Yeah. Who knows how he blows my mind.

He does. Just his his mind is incredible. And uh and and I can relate to it because there are certain things that etch themselves. They brand themselves into my long-term memory banks and and I'm able to pull it out very very quickly. Where I'm astounded with him is the depth of it. like like I can I could probably do two seasons of Saturday Night Live hosts from my formative years and I wouldn't mess it up too badly.

Mark can do almost the entire run. Okay, in '89 it was this person and then this person, then this person, then this person. There was the musical guest but they had to cancel because such and such happened. Like he knows it and it's just

amazing to me. So, so when we had our conversation, my goal was um to have a conversation with him that was unlike anybody else. I wanted to go so much deeper and ask questions that he has never been asked before and and and have discussion points. So, it went two and a half hours. And so, what we decided to do was go two parts. Okay.

Um, so part two is going to come out next week,

but I'm at the point now where I have to shoot like a separate intro. Like, I shot my original intro not knowing. I was kind of hedging if it was going to be two parts or not, and then I never shot a second one. So, what I would love is would you please do the intro and the outro to the Mark Maloff episode? And I'll give you some notes of things you can talk about, but like like like would you introduce and uh and outroduce Mark Malov's part two episode for me?

Sure.

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you very much. This is great. This is going to save me a lot of work. I

know how to do that though. But but by

Yeah. You welcome everybody to the Letterman podcast. You say who we're going to be talking to

and then uh and then we'll finish that and you say enjoy and please enjoy part two of our conversation with Mal Mark Malov. Talk about what Mark means to you. I don't know. You she visited on your show. I feel like I feel like you could easily easily do an intro for this and then the outro. This might be the part where you're fing fudging a little bit because you know you haven't seen the episode but hey, wasn't that great? We love you know and and finish that. But, you know, I think I think you are uh a professional enough that uh that you could do this and do it very very well. So, what we're going to do is we're going to

How long has the How long has your Letterman podcast been on?

Uh so, three years.

Okay.

Three and a half years.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. 22. April of 22. And now we're past April of 25. So, yeah, we're into we're into the fourth year.

So, yeah. Um, let's just go here. This is going to be great. Okay, so anytime you're ready, as soon as you speak, this the screen will go back to you. And if you wouldn't mind, uh, shoot me an intro for this week's episode of the Letterman podcast, which is part two of Mark Malov.

Okay.

Greetings. Welcome to the God. See, this is a bad idea.

It's a great idea. And you're going to cut all that out.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. I muted myself. Okay. That was perfect. That was awesome.

Um it was I'm going to I'm going to cut that out of this episode. So they will be seeing you and I talking and hearing talking now. But unless they go back and watch last week's episode, they will not see the intro. So this is a good reason to go and rewatch what we just cut out there. You could see that at the beginning of last week's episode. I love time travel. And now we are all in a time loop of some sort. We've just created the opportunity for a time loop. And now we're gonna do one more.

Um, you're going to do the outro for the episode.

Wait a second. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

Okay. Okay.

Hang on. CALM DOWN.

DON'T HANG UP. Oh my god. Oh. See, again, an entire generation of people. That was our generation. Hey, but don't hang up. Don't hang up. I just got to go.

No. No. Stay right there.

Stay right there. Don't. I got to go. Don't hang up, man. Like seriously, like one generation of people who are, you know, 0 to 60 years old in the history of Earth understand what that is. Don't hang up.

Don't hang up. Okay.

Oh my god. Okay. Still here.

Are you ready?

Okay. Hold. Almost. Um. Okay. So, we're going to shoot the outro. And if you wouldn't mind, uh, do a plug for the Letterman podcast has one sponsor. Oh, thank you. Okay. You're a pro.

What do you think I went? What? I don't know.

That's what I was doing.

Okay. All right. I'm sorry.

That's not true. That's not true. I will You You've got the gig. Congratulations. You've passed the test. Oh, that was Yeah, that's right. Oh, this has been great. I just I'm so happy. That worked out so much better than I even thought it would. That's going to be great. Um,

you sure I wasn't rambling too much? If I need to record it again, I will.

No. Gosh, no. Oh, as if. No, no, no, no, no. That's that's that's perfection.

Okay.

Perfection incarnate right there. Um, no. I I uh I've been trying to think of little ways to to to start having some more fun with this thing now that that my life is kind of getting back to a to a reasonable uh pace as opposed to um unmanageable and insanity and and all that stuff. Right.

I'm really trying to lean into the things that spark joy again and things like that spark joy. Uh we changed the outro to the show. Uh the outro to the show still has the underpants uh logo which you know again silly but that's what we've used so that's what we're going to continue to use. Um but now we have Arty. Arty does the voice over. Um

okay.

And as it was one of his clips from uh uh from Coach's Corner and he says bang zoom in the in in the quote. And and so to me, bang zoom is one of those things that there's no way bang zoom would be in my vocabulary were it not for Letterman and

bang zoom.

Take the slo and cut off. Get out of your car. Cut off your sloen. Get back in your car.

Bang zoom. Um so we're doing little things like that. And I have other ideas of things that I'd like to do if uh who knows what happens with the show. But um

we got to do the top 10 list sometime.

I you know what? It's funny. I did one um I've been doing standup

and uh and enjoying it and and uh um there was a a special night that they were doing a um a standup show for a local pro wrestling group that we had.

I saw that. I watched that.

Did you see it? I did a top 10 list that night. I did a top 10 list in the Yeah. And um the the club the club owner who I've been going out to the open mic nights for, he just kind of looked at me and he goes, "Why aren't you doing a top 10 list when you come out on the other nights?" I'm like, "Well, it's kind of too on the nose, but every once in a while doing one."

No, you got to do the top 10 great things about the Letterman podcast.

I know. Oh, I know. And that's still there. That's still That's still something I want to do. I'm actually calling

to me the lynch pin on that one is Dick Cavitt. If Dick Kavitt does it,

then all the rest are going to be really really really easy. But Kavitt's the one, but I actually uh I I'm trying I got to get a hold of him here in the next couple weeks. Um so so

in doing so, I will see if I can get him to record that line. It would be pretty great if we could. And that's the only, you know, hint we'll give about what Darren is referring to there. Um that's it's it's a killer idea.

Yeah.

Uh so we will do that special top 10.

I didn't realize we were still like this is part of the podcast that's airing. I thought you and I were just shooting the I was waiting for you to cut back into the thing. Oh,

no, no, no, no. This is all show.

Oh, great.

Everything is usable when we hit the record button on the Zoom. Um,

everything is usable.

Um,

oh, hey. Oh, I'm in a weird spot asking you this. Damn it.

Hey, no, wait. When is this going to be out? No, it's not. It's going to be out.

You You know better than I do.

Oh, no. It's pretty close. Okay, this episode will be coming out very, very close to the induction ceremonies at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Yes.

Good.

Have you heard anything about that lately that's excited you?

I know that Letterman's going to be inducting Warren Zevon.

It seems that way, doesn't it? It certainly seems that way.

And I'm wearing a Sound Garden shirt, but man, if I only knew somebody who could hook me up with a Warren Zevon shirt, then I could wear that. You've had him on your show four times. That's Adam.

Adam, excuse me.

Adam Munger.

He hasn't been on my show. No.

Oh, Adam hasn't been Oh, and Adam Need has been on your show.

Adam Need has been on my show.

Oh, you got to have Adam Munger. I mean, Adam Mer is like

I'm not opposed to having Adam Munger on the show.

Oh, you you've been close.

Oh, we've we've chatted a little bit. I mean, we've been on your show a couple times together.

That's true. That's right.

On the uh on the Facebook instant messenger. I can't remember about what, but he's a good guy.

He's a good guy. really good,

insanely talented.

He's carrying the torch of Warren Zeon. God love him for that, you know. And somebody, you know, somebody needs to be carrying the torch of Sound Garden. I know they're they are re uh

not redoing it, but they've got a bunch of uh songs in the vault that they're digging out and they're putting on a on an album.

Yep.

There's that. But I mean, you know, with Chris Cornell gone, I'm sorry, but somebody needs to somebody needs to play a Sound Garden song at their show, they need to just divvy him up like I

You do Outshine, we'll do Jesus Christ pose and we'll do Black Hole Sun and that that music needs to be kept alive. I gotta tell you, like it's such a it's such a hard um it's such a hard needle to thread like like like watching the LA uh the LA Fire um you know uh fundraising show and they had

as close to a Nirvana reunion as you'll ever get,

you know,

and and it was it was cool. And I'll tell you this, um I went and saw Lincoln Park uh about a month ago, and it was a transcendent experience. It was one of the craziest experiences of my life. Um, yeah, it was I I it was a crazy crazy moment. It was that night, but but but having Emily come and replace Chester was the only way. And they threaded it beautifully. Like the new Lincoln Park album,

not only does it sound like a Lincoln Park album, it sounds every bit individual on its own. And listening to Emily sing

the Lincoln Park standards,

I was blown away. like like it is it's one of the best

live shows I've ever I could start crying right now. It was so powerful. It was so powerful.

Um and there we go. We have a replacement singer for somebody who seemed to be irreplaceable. Chester is one of those people who had a voice that was

How do you replace it? Well, you bring in Emily and it's a completely different dimension but at the same time can hit the same dimensions that he did.

Yeah. I don't know if Sound Garden could do that with Chris Cornell, but it would take something. It would take

No, I don't I don't think so. But I mean, but it just it's just sad that I don't want the music of Sound Garden to slip away. I'd love for it to I just I I and I love Sound Garden. Ever told you the story of why I fell into Sound Garden?

Tell me.

So, I knew who they were. Okay. I had heard um a handful of of Sound Garden songs, but I wasn't big into them. I didn't know any of their music. Didn't have any of their shirts. I didn't, you know, I just knew a couple of songs. I'm in a bar one night and we're sitting there drinking some beer and we overheard Johnny Cash doing Rusty Cage.

Yes.

And I and I and I I said, "Shannon, shut up." He's like, "What?" And I'm like, is that is that Rusty Cage? Is that Johnny Cash doing Rusty Cage? And he said,

so good.

Oh my god, I think it is.

Now, the same thing with Johnny Cash. I knew Ring of Fire and False and Prison Blues.

Yep.

And Walk the Line. I probably knew those three Johnny Cash songs. Love those songs. Always thought Johnny Cash was cool, but I wasn't big into Johnny Cash, right? So, I think it was the next day I went and I found the CD that had him, Johnny Cash, doing uh uh what's the song that I said? Rusty Cage.

Rusty Cage. And I listened to that CD a thousand times. And then I went and I and I bought some Soundguard music and I got into Oh my god.

I got into them simultaneously. And so as I fell in love with uh really fell deep into Johnny Cash music, I did the same thing with Chris Cornell and the music of Sound Garden. I was into Sound Garden, audio slave and then his uh solo albums. I saw uh audio slave or I saw uh

Sound Garden.

Yeah. Yeah,

I saw Sound Garden at the La Palooa tour. They were there with Rage Against Machine. Mind blown. Okay.

Okay. So that was the second time they were on the tour, right? I don't

because in 92 they were with Pearl Jam

was it? Okay. I think I saw him in

I think I saw him in maybe 96.

Okay. Okay. So that would have been so so so the first time this is how I got introduced to Sound Garden. I knew Pearl Jam cuz 10 had come out and and and I'm a big Pearl Jam fan. Always have been. I was a Red Chili Peppers fan. So when 92 Laooa 92 was announced, I was like, "Oh, cuz the Chili Peppers, but then Pearl Jam, Sound Garden, Ministry, Ice Cube,

uh, Lush, Jesus and Mary Chain, I forget the other ones, but those were the Okay. So, but but I had heard that Pearl Jam and Sound Garden, both from Seattle, like Nirvana had blown up and and all that stuff was happening, and Seattle is pretty close to where I live, right? So that that that music scene was blowing up. That type of rock

uh rock changing itself a little bit from sort of the glam stuff into more of the the the the grungier.

That was all around me. Vancouver was like that as well.

Yeah.

Um

but I had heard that Pearl Jam and Sound Garden had done

uh a collaboration together.

Yeah.

And that was the Temple of the Dog going, you know, Hunger Strike and and all that. And I mean, so at La Palooa 92, you have Eddie Veter on stage doing Pearl Jam stuff or maybe maybe it was Chris Cornell and Sound Garden and they're making fun of Pearl Jam

and and and between and then they come out and do Temple of the Dog stuff together and you realize, oh man, this is just something really really special and

and I mean Chris Cornell I still to this day like

going back and listening to stuff like Jesus Christ pose or or or I mean I mean Black Wall Sun of course um some of these you know, blow up the outside world. But then you listen to the stuff that he was doing near the end. Like there's a on Apple Music, there's a huge Chris Cornell compilation that you can just, you know, get and it's got, I don't know, 60 or 70 songs on it.

And um

phenomenal.

He does a version of Nothing Compares to You with his

and it is like I I'm covered in goosebumps right now just even thinking about his daughter singing that song with him and they do the course together or he does a version of Billy Jean by Michael Jackson.

Yep. It's

there's a version of one the he he meshed the the Metallica version of one with the U2 version of one. Yep. He took you two's guitar riff but sang Metallica's lyrics.

One of the most amazing things you could ever hear.

It's so

tying it back in with Johnny Cash. A few years after Johnny Cash had passed away, they released they found all these uh uh lyrics that he had written and so poems and stuff and all these artists got together and recorded these songs that he wrote and it's called Johnny Cash Songwriter.

Yep.

And Chris Cornell is on there. This is after Chris Cornell had passed away. They released it after Chris Cornell died. There's and you've got to listen to it. You never really knew my mind. And Johnny Cash wrote it, but it tells the story almost of what Chris was of going through.

Yeah.

Right. And so for me, the Johnny Cash, Chris Cornell thing started and ended together. And I would love to have like a 45 of Rusty Cage,

Johnny version of Rusty Cage on one side, Chris Cornell's version of You Really Never Really Knew My Mind on the B side. And those two

coming soon with AI, you'll just be able to wish it in existence and it'll be there.

Well, I mean, all you got to do is all you got to do is just, you know, burn it onto a they exist. But listen to that song. It's phenomenal. So,

it's so special.

I'm so excited that he's finally finally getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I wish it wasn't posumously. I wish Warren wasn't involved or inducted postumously, but hey, better late than ever. And next year, Billy Idol. Next year is gonna be Billy Idol. I

And and again, the rumor has it that Dave hasn't it hasn't been fully confirmed. It's funny when this whole thing ends, I'm gonna be releasing a video that just

oh, it's frustrating to to say the least. But um but you know, a little cryptic, but a week after this episode airs, I will release that video and and and people will understand what I'm saying. But it it hasn't been confirmed that Dave is it's been written about. Vulture wrote about it. Lateer.com wrote about it. A couple other places wrote about it

uh about Dave being a presenter. It's He's listed as a presenter on the on the on the on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame site. Yeah. But they haven't confirmed who Dave is inducting, but I think we all know. Um I know it's ridiculous.

Wouldn't that be some if he comes up there? And ladies and gentlemen, I've been a fan of Salt and Peppa for 40 years.

Yes.

I like to push it real good. Paul, do you like to push it? I like to push it, David.

Yeah.

Do you know Salt and Pepper once had a wardrobe malfunction on Late Show with David Letterman?

Uh I believe I did hear about that. Yeah, they had to reshoot their uh they had to reshoot their performance because I don't know. Uh you know, the salt or the pep got loose. I'm not sure exactly what what did, but

Oh, My pepper got loose.

Yeah.

Shook out some pepper. Uh you know what? And I've I've seen them on stage. I've actually danced with Salt and Peppa on stage uh live. It was It was crazy. Um I if my money uh were to if one of them were to have a wardrobe malfunction, my money would be on Pep. That's that's what I would be saying. uh that if I if I were to bet on it, I would bet. Talking about these these these uh worlds colliding and and Warren Zevon, it was neat talking to Jordan on here a few months ago about I'm worried about Willie Nelson and I'll tell you why. Um I'm a big Ninch Nails fan and back in the day when Johnny Cash released uh his version of Hurt

Hurt.

Um you know, which is of course a Ninch Nails song. Uh

Trent wrestler said that it was no longer his song. It's now although seeing Nine Nails three months ago in in in concert, they finished the show with Hurt, so they took it back, I guess. But but Johnny Yeah, the video I mean you watch the video for Hurt by Johnny Cash and you're like, "Oh my god, this guy is not long for Our World and and and and so this uh this past year, Willie Nelson released a version of him singing Keep Me in Your Heart by Warren Zeon."

And I'm like, "Oh god, Willie, why' you do that?" Like, I'm I'm scared about Willie. I'm scared about losing Willie now. Because

yeah,

a similar I would put hurt and keep me in your heart

in a similar category. agree

um of of of song and and it's beautiful. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful. But I can't listen to Warren Zevon singing Keep Me in Your Heart

without tearing up. And I haven't been able to ever

I haven't ever not,

you know, um it was in a

It was in a movie.

It was in Funny People, Adam Sandler, Jed Appetile's movie. It was in Seth Rogan, Adam Sandler. It was in that movie. Like I heard it in that movie and I couldn't

not tear up. And I'm curious as to what the Hall of Fame ceremony is going to have in the in in as a as a presentation.

Um, you know, Jordan, hopefully Jordan will be up there singing as he says, you know, he can do his dad like he does his dad very very well. He can imitate his dad,

but it'd be cool to have um

you know, some of these interpretations that we're talking about here. Uh it'd be it'd be neat to see that.

Um you know, on the covers album, Adam Sandler does Werewolves in London.

I love it.

And uh I think that's I think that's very funny. I I love Enjoy every sandwich CD, right?

Yeah, that's right.

Um, but uh and speaking of Adam Sandler, uh the next my next guest that's going to come out is going to be Dave and Adam Sandler, and I think that that is going to be a pretty neat that's a that's a cool one. Uh a lot of people have been saying Steve Martin and all this sort of stuff. That's great, too. And I can see why they would say it, but to me having Adam Sandler on, I believe that's hitting more my or our demographic

because we got to see Adam on on on uh grow and show up on panel on both the late night and late show

and uh there there there's a lot of cool things that I'm looking forward to that.

I remember Adam was on I don't remember if it was late night or or late show. It's probably late show. Yeah. because he said, "Uh, the last time I was on your show, you said something that was kind of mean and I didn't have a comeback and after I left, I thought of a comeback and so I'd like to do the the comeback now."

And Dave says, "Okay." So he looks at me, he goes, "Oh, yeah."

That was the comeback. And I love that

me in my mind, Dave, too.

After he left.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, it's good stuff. Oh, and then uh one more thing. The um the Triumph the Insult comic dog.

Yes,

Robert Schmeiggel was in Chicago and dropped off the Triumph the Insult comic dog at the museum. I didn't get to see him do that, but I heard that he asked that Tribe be put on a newspaper with Jay Leno's face on it, but they didn't do it. That's what I've heard. That's what I heard. Now, since I said it on a podcast, it's true. But that's what I heard. Whoever if that story is made up that I I think it's brilliant.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like if somebody is like fleecing us by saying that, it's so like it's so believable. Like I have I

This is a good exhibit FOR ME TO POOP ON.

OH, that's good. Oh. Uh,

good times. Um, thank you for coming back here, man.

Hey, anytime. Anytime. I've told you I will be your Tony Randall anytime you want.

I know. I love that and I appreciate it very, very much. Um, yeah, it's uh,

it's so much fun. the friendships that have come up through this. I again I I've said from the very beginning I thought that this is exactly what I would be getting from the show is is is the chance to kind of build community of of those of us who cuz that you know it's there for bands it's there for movies. It's there for all sorts of other things but it just didn't seem to be there for Letterman. I mean the AFL group has been around forever but those guys I mean to me and I'm grateful to be a part of it. I'm grateful they invited you and you and I to be part of it but to me like those are the Dave Con people. those were the the people who

you know

it was it was a certain group and so so building the community and having people like connections like ours and other ones. Shout out to so many of the people who have reached out to me. Oh sh I want to give a shout out to a special guy named JT. Um

hi JT.

Yeah, we'll say hi to JT. Just been there from the beginning. Uh one of those people that was very very patient with me from the start. Probably still is patient with me um due to you know the obvious lack of skills. Um but but but at the same time stuck with us and and uh I've got there's there's there's so many JTs is the first one that comes to mind but there's a lot of people who have reached out um and they know you know who you are. Some of them who have done it through you know anonymity um which I don't blame you for to be perfectly frank. Um but I just want to say thank you to everybody who has uh who has thrown out some well wishes lately and and uh and again everybody like you know we're not on the payroll of any sort. This book is that good.

Yeah.

Um my gosh, why can't he have a stand of these books in that museum? Uh gosh, what a perfect companion piece for the people who go to the broadcast museum. Maybe we should get Bark out there busking uh selling some books out of a out of the back of a pickup truck outside this thing. Um it's so good. I highly recommend it. Um

I wish you've read it. I can't wait till you read it. I can't wait. Like

you know, we got you're going to love it so much, Darren. Um, irritable irritable dad syndrome can be found on all the places podcasts can be found, right? Or Yeah, you put a YouTube version up, don't you?

Yeah, it's on it's on YouTube. Everywhere you get your podcasts and our website is irritabledads syndrome.com and uh from the bottom of my heart. Mike, you have been a supporter and a fan uh since we first met. And you know, I put so much I put so much work and effort into my podcast as Mike Odel, my partner does. Anything you see on the uh interwebs, any of our videos or whatever, Mike produced those. The audio version of the podcast, I do those. So, we have split it down the middle and he puts a ton of work into it and I put a ton of work into it. And the only reason we do it is because we love it.

Yeah.

And if you guys, you know, check us out and listen to us, I would appreciate it. But yeah, Mike, you have been a fan and a supporter of me uh for ever. And uh that just I I I can't thank you enough for that.

It's so easy cuz the show is so good. I mean it just it's so easy. So yeah, reach out watch the watch the 5y year ann listen to the 5y year anniversary episode. If anything it's for the Carl story but but everything else. It's so good. It's so good. And uh uh Darren, thank you for being my friend. I appreciate this. Um this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum. Coincidentally, I am Mike Chisum. Thank you and good night. Love it. La.

They don't talk to me.

Yeah.

I don't talk to them. Bang. Zoom.

All right.