The State of Late Night With Daily Comedy News Podcast Host Johnny Mac

Hi, I'm Paul Schaefer. I'm Will Lee. And you are watching the Letterman podcast.

Welcome once again to the Letterman Podcast. My name is Mike Chisum. All right, so uh another one of these uh impromptu episodes has uh has shown up at our doorstep today. Today it's uh once again Johnny Mack, the uh founder and uh and and host of the Daily Comedy News podcast. Uh and I are waxing philosophical on all things late night. And I feel like we're going to be doing that a lot in this next 10 months. We hadn't connected since uh the Cole Bear announcement and and and a few other things. um Mort's podcast. Uh I sent him some of the information in that podcast early and uh one thing led to another and suddenly we're just conversing and talking and he's going to use it as a special episode and we're going to use it as a special episode. Uh this is you know a lot of talking about the state of uh late night right now. The franchises of course we talk about Jay Lennena, we talk about David Letterman, we talk about Stephen Cobear, we talk about the business of late night, lots of stuff and uh yeah it's it's funny. I I have I have these four or five in the in in the bank uh podcasts that are in the bank that I want I'm trying to get out there.

You know, I was when I came back, I wanted to surf the wave of having uh some stock in the bank and these new ones keep coming up. So, I'll probably I it's crazy to say I'll probably be catching up and releasing uh a couple a week here in the next uh few weeks over the summertime. Summertime fun with Rupert G, Irene Hoffman, and Steve Young uh from Greece. that's going to be released. We've got Danny Kman. Dan Kman. Uh I'm excited about that one. I'm very excited about that one. It's a fantastic conversation and uh that's a guy I want to talk to more um as time progresses. Um and and a few others had recorded one with a with a former intern the other day as well. And uh lots of good stuff going on. But today, ripped from the headlines, more talk about what's going on in the world of late night television. Is this the Swan song? Is it not? We talked about all the hosts. Uh, one of my favorite people in the world to have a conversation with.

It's like time travel is possible. He and I will feel like we have talked for 5 minutes and it turns out it's 90 minutes. It's crazy. Johnny Mack, one of my favorite people, host of the Daily Comedy News podcast. Enjoy. All right, it's circus time right now in late night and because of that the mashups of shows where hey let's have a conversation and and connect the dots and we'll both put this conversation on both our platforms. Uh it is a pleasure to be um you know with Johnny Mack and and and the Daily Comedy News podcast which I just adore. Um, and we haven't talked in a while, Johnny. And it was like, okay, so are we going to do this, you know, off and we've been trading texts and emails and things like that, but let's do this. Let's let's let's do this with the cameras on, the microphones on. Holy smokes, is it a good time to be a fan of comedy right now. There's so much going on. Uh, aside from Coargate, as I've started calling it, uh, there there's just been so much that I'm trying to do, you know, 15-minute episodes like I usually do, and they're coming out at 20 something plus bonus episodes. It's just been super busy, which if you're me, especially in August, great problem to have.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Especially this time of year. Um, no, no doubt. So, so Colbear Gate, so it's getting a gate in your world, in the Daily Comedy News world, Colbear, it's getting a gate status. That's how big we are.

Well, I think the initial, you know, was it about the merger? Was it about the money? I've landed on I think it was about the money, but the merger sure was a factor in it. Uh, my legal department's telling me that I misspoke there when I said sure. I I meant to say possibly. Um, but um, you know, I think it's a mix of both. Let's start with the money. I assuming, you know, who knows what's true.

CBS floated $40 million loss.

Steven Colbear might have pushed back on that a little, but I don't think anybody is saying we're not losing money at all. We made $40 million. So, the show's operating at a loss,

right?

If you come at it at that standpoint, it's not crazy to end the show. It might make us sad, but it's not crazy. But there there's so many shades to this. One thing I've talked about, and it may apply more to to NBC, it's the who are we, right? So Fox, we're football and some animation, and we don't care.

Yep.

If we're NBC, we are the Today Show and the Tonight Show and some stuff in between. That's who we are as a company at NBC. M and I think CBS as they transition ownership has decided, you know what, we're the football and uh the NCIS network and sitcoms for older people, do we need an 11:30 show? And I'm not sure they do. But we also need to talk about the timeline as once against I hijack your show. Um

please,

you know, one thing that one thing that was brought up was Taylor Tomlinson at 12:30 was renewed. I think Bill Carter is the one who brought this up.

Yep.

It was renewed. Okay. So, if if she had said, "Great. I I love hosting uh after midnight. What's it called now?" Yeah. After.

After midnight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Um if she had stayed, would there have been no 11:30 show? Would they have moved her up to 11:30? Would they have hired either you or me to do an 11:30 show on the cheap? So, so the story doesn't quite add up. Although having worked in broadcasting, maybe Taylor's decision started some conference room meetings of, "Oh, wow. Should we replace 12:30?" No. All right. Well, now that we landed on that, do we even need 11:30? So, I just threw a lot at you, but there there's just so much to unpack with Col Bear Gate. It is a gate. I I think you you have you have uh certainly brought the case forward to say that yes, uh Steven Cobear is deserving of a gate. I think he is too uh for a variety of reasons and and yes um first off I 100% believe CBS when they say it was purely a financial decision $8 billion is a lot of money. So I mean I mean like yeah it's it's financial. Yeah. 8 billion. Yeah. You know we'll put on we'll put on uh the Zoo channel uh at 11:30 for for $8 billion.

Um, which of course then brings in the idea of the business versus the heritage and and and I mean the entire medium is changing. You can't really blame um you know people who don't necessarily have this this nostalgic um you know uh maybe they do maybe some of the people who are making these decisions do have the nostalgic wherewithal to understand the legacy of the house that Dave built. The idea that CBS forever wanted a late night franchise, Letterman and Company built it for them, gave it to them. It had never happened before in the in the history. The medium was changing back then because extra te television was, you know, the the audience was being diluted as you went from your your your your four major networks, three and a half major networks, I suppose, until Fox really uh took the football from CBS and and and and really upped their game.

Um, and then diluted even more. you had never had a competitor to the Tonight Show and and and The Late Show or Late Show became that um transferable. Not only were they able to take their signature star in David Letterman and transfer that franchise to another signature star, that signature star brought it to number one uh to number one status. This is a big deal that they are getting rid of this franchise. Um and and and uh the idea that it is purely a financial decision. You know, you hear I loved listening to David Letterman and Barbara Gains on the Barbara Gaines show talk about this like the idea like was it not floated that they could have cut the budget? How many times in our run did they tell us to cut the budget and we just went and cut the budget? You know, it it like you say um a Keystone could have been pulled with with with Taylor, but wasn't Stephen involved in that show too?

like the way that Dave was involved u I mean Worldwide Pants owned that block of television so it was a little bit different but the fact that uh you know they created Late Late Show and Dave had his fingers in that Steven Coar had his fingers in the property that was after his show as well and it didn't go as well when they changed it from Late Late Show to After Midnight. Um so yeah there's a lot like you say a lot of stuff to unpack here a lot more than just what we're seeing. um on the surface and uh you know the idea you know people talking about free speech is free speech under attack all that kind of stuff. late nighter.com about two weeks before this announcement was made, I think it was two weeks, uh put up an article saying talking about the Sky Dance Media uh merger saying, "Are Steven Colbear and John Stewart in trouble,

right?"

Two weeks before and the announcement comes out, they're ending not just Colbear, but the entire franchise. You got to wonder, is John Stewart next? And what comes next for these guys here? Um, you know, you were involved in in in as a as as an enthusiast of this stuff in '92, '93 when Carson uh left and Letterman moved over to NBC. That's why I call that circus time. Anytime that there's uh an opportunity for Bill Carter to write a book, you know, it's a good time to watch late night. I think we're there right now and I think we're going to get 10 months of it and I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Uh I call it circus time. I don't know what you call it, but uh yeah, so that's my initial thoughts and we can kind of go from there. So yeah, like you said, lots to unpack.

Again, as somebody who has spent bulk of my career as a media executive, especially with a number one show, you would think, and others have pointed this out, a conversation would start along the lines of, "Hey, Stephen, this thing's losing a lot of money. Uh we got, you know, we'd love to have you back. We got to we got to renew you for less." That has been done before. I think that's even been done with the current generation of hosts. So, we knew you for less. Uh, we need some added value. Like, look, dude. Uh, you know, Kimmel, look what he does for ABC. You know, we have this idea. Can you host uh, you know, the nighttime prices, right? Or something like that. Just get more out of Co Bear.

Uh, somebody else had floated.

Hey, we're not going to do a show at all. On Friday, we'll show, you know, Friday night cartoons. And, uh, on Wednesday, we'll double tape, so we only need people there three days a week. Do we need 200 people? Can you do this with 180? Yes, we can get a ton of money for the Ed Sullivan Theater, so it's going to suck. But look, uh, look at how Late Night with David Letterman was in a tiny studio, so we're going to move you to CBS Studio 7Z, and you're going to do the show out of there, and maybe we can make this thing work. Like, why wasn't that conversation had at all?

Exactly. And he, like you said, he's number one.

Like, you know, uh, uh, write your way out of it. Here's your here's your predicament. Write your way out of it. And to me, uh, late night writers, uh, when they are given, like the good ones, the really good ones and the good franchises, when they're given a piece of adversity, that's what they do. They write their way out of it. They turn, uh, you know, you know, uh, chicken into chicken salad. That's what they do. And and and to be not given that opportunity to do that certainly certainly um, you know, points the finger uh at the executive saying that, you know what, maybe they just want it to go away. Um, yeah. And and and there's there's probably, you know, you just listed four or five things and there's probably 20 other things.

No, sorry to cut you off because my brain is going now in executive mode. I'll give you a couple more. Uh, Stephen, love you. Uh, we're going to cut the salary instead of hosting I don't know. It does 40 weeks. Uh, why don't you do 24 Kimmel's off all summer. The world doesn't end. So, you have the entire summer off. I can't pay you for it, but you have the entire summer off. And then we can look at it and go, "All right, should we get just some comedians and and pay them a lot less to guest host the show all summer? You want to get super radical? Let's not even air the show. Let's just have the season finale in May and let's run CSI reruns all summer long." And then bring the show back in September. Hey, it's an all new season of The Late Show. Isn't this exciting? It's back. It's back is exciting rather than it's just on. Uh, you know, if you're on the crew and you don't get paid all summer, that sucks.

But it sucks less than not having a gig at all. You know, I I feel like there were things that could have been done here.

Yes. Those, by the way, I'm glad you mentioned the crew uh because, you know, it is c if if it is circus time and guys like us are going to have a lot of fun um you know, talking about this stuff and watching it uh watching the implosion that seems to be happening happen. Um we're going to make popcorn and talk about it. Let's let's let's talk about these people that work for this show. Uh many of these people who have made entire career sacrifices to get to the place to work on a show like this. It is the dream gig for a lot of the people that work in that building. I've talked to some of these people. Um I I that's where my heart goes out to. I'm make no mistake. I'm going to have a lot of fun making fun of uh CBS this next 10 months. I'm going to I'm I'm I'm I'm uh uh I'm stricken. I'm heartbroken. I'm sp I'm like a I'm like a spurned lover uh in the fact that they're ending this franchise that that that the house that Dave built.

But and I'm going to make fun of that uh for I am so sad for the people who work for that show. Um and and it's it's it's really a shame because like we're talking about here, we're making the case for the idea that it could continue and and and many would say should continue and uh and and yet so callously like a line on a ledger being crossed off. That's what this sort of feels like. Um so yeah, but the people who work for this show, like my heart goes out uh to these the these people. You've seen that happen where mediums change and and and and and uh it's like a game of musical chairs and suddenly the music stops and and a lot of these people won't have a chair uh or at least a similar uh place to sit that they have had in this show. So we we think about them a lot as we as we talk about this. So you know not to be a downer but our heart does go out to the people who work for this show and this is happening too.

You know it's interesting uh as times change technology changes. I I'll tell you a story from my own career because I I I've started thinking about this more. I worked at W radio in the 90s and into the morning show was the world's longest running radio show rambling with gambling. It was started by John B gambling in the 20s or 30s. He passed the show off to his son John A gambling and then I worked with John R gambling. This thing ran for 75 years. I was John's producer for a while and I remember, you know, one point being a punk kid in the 20s being like, "We should do this. We should do this." And John said the smartest thing. He said, "We've been doing this a long time. It works. Just keep doing that." And he was right.

Yeah.

And then for reasons that we I won't bog down in here, uh, W management decided to end the show. And then what happened post Rambling with Gambling was the station sort of lost its identity because we were the Rambling with Gambling station, an AM radio station. So AM was dying and AM was going to die no matter what you did.

But

it died more quickly. The station became less relevant more quickly without that anchor show

to the point where about 10 years later they brought John Gambling back who tagged his career with a few years back as the morning host.

But you had broken the continuity. It wasn't Rambling with Gambling was the John Gambling show. 10 years had passed. you you know anybody who remembered the old thing was kind of gone or 10 years older or perhaps even dead at AM radio.

Mhm.

So I I come back to CBS. If you don't want to be in the 11:30 game, fine. But who are we? So we're just we're just football and CSI and maybe that maybe that's okay. I don't know.

Yeah, I I don't know either. It's it's it's funny. Um, one of the things on uh I love your show again I everybody out there in our world uh subscribe to the Daily Comedy Podcast uh Daily Comedy News podcast. It's so good because it is so short despite you know the the content challenges you're having because there's just too much these days. It's so good the sum ups and one of the you know of of comedy of the day, comedy news of the day. Uh, a few episodes ago, you talked about before Dave uh, went on the Barbara Gain show and officially commented, you talked about how telling the super cut was of Dave making fun of CBS. You know, the Tiffany Network and and and they they released that was Dave's, you know, what does Letterman think? Well, they released this thing on their YouTube channel which is a compilation of Dave talking about CBS and and and and the ups and downs over the years and making fun of that network.

Obviously, he didn't make fun of CBS the way he made fun of NBC back in the day. Um and and and when it came to, you know, gigantic messups in late night, NBC certainly is the reigning champion when it comes to these things, but CBS Now is joining them and they're looking to say, "Oh yeah, hold my beer. We'll show you what a real late night debacle looks like." Um and and and just the fact that um we're watching this happen is I think you just nailed uh you hit the nail on the head rather in saying what is their identity because if they were the Tiffany network, I certainly see no resemblance of that now. Although perhaps the cop shows, the CSI shows now are the, you know, Murder She Wrote when Letterman came over. It was Murder She Wrote used to be the punch line back in the day. And is CBS the the network for the older crowd, whatever that is. Um,

it's Go ahead.

This week they announced, no joke, Murder She Wrote coming back with Jamie Lee Curtis.

That was an actual headline. Yeah.

So, are you nostalgic? Are you like like and and why like my question is why wouldn't you want a late night show still? um back in the day, you know, and again, everything has changed and I get it. Like if we're watching it change, uh great. I'm glad Netflix is starting to figure trying to figure out like everybody's live. I you know, everyone's talking about the we can talk about everybody's live actually. That's something that we probably should talk about a little bit, but but but Netflix is trying to figure this out because clearly there is still an audience for this. They're just watching things differently than they did before. So the metrics, if we change the metrics, you're going to see that people still people are up in arms about this co bear thing. You know, 250,000 signatures on that on that petition in a very very very short period of time. There are people who who still love this stuff.

We're just watching things differently. And I hope the television networks can figure out a way to stay in existence, never mind relevant, to figure out a way to stay in existence. And these types of shows to me, um, you know, there are still sitcoms out there that do well. They're nuanced. I think we need to do that with Late Night as well.

I I continue to think about why didn't they try and reinvent the wheel now? I don't know how long it takes to edit one of these things, but they tape around 5:30 p.m. Eastern.

Mhm.

Could you have thrown this up on Paramount Plus at 8:00? Uh, one of the cases on why Gutfeld is doing well, um, I see pointed out on threads, it's live at 8:00 p.m. in Pacific time. It It's not a late night show. It's a prime time show.

So, what if you had kept the late show, and don't worry about the name, it's just a name. But what if you had done Cobear at 8:00 PM Eastern on Paramount Plus and and put something shiny on Paramount Plus and gotten the clips out there and then let's be real, Fox News loves to pull clips of uh the opposition and make fun of it.

So you you do the show quote unquote live at 8 and then Sean Hannity can make fun of it at 9:00. Maybe that was a situation you could have done. Why didn't they take a look at that and then you run it at 11:30 uh for the old people?

Yeah. And again, we're just all we're doing is just throwing pot shots, showing that the network made this decision. Um, you know, halfcocked, you know, spur of the moment, whatever you want to call it. Clearly, clearly, um, if they wanted to fight for the show, they could have fought for the show. Uh, that's got to be smarting on on, uh, you know, the egos or the the feelings of of the people who run this show. Um, you know, really at the end of the day, I don't know that Steven Cobar when he started this show wanted to be the guy who opposed Donald Trump. I I watched the first year and a half as they tried to find their identity. We got to remember when he slipped, he was number one and then he slipped and he slipped and people were criticizing and then saying, "Oh, maybe they should swap with Cordon and swap them." And there was all that stuff going on. And then Trump start and then uh I should say Steven Coar started pushing the pedal down towards Trump and that's when he surged back up and and and and now you've got a winning formula. Okay, so you've got a winning formula. Do we change that formula or not? Uh well now it's turned into a typ cast thing and it's like John Ritter walking around, you know, rest his soul and everyone calling him Jack Tripper because that's just who he is or Michael Richards. He's now Kramer, right?

Colbear is the leader of the Trump opposition in late night and he does it so well. Um that's the identity that he's created. I'm curious if he can create another identity and what's next for him. Um I think about Conan O'Brien back uh you know circus time in090 and what that I would say three weeks did for Conan O'Brien. It was probably about three weeks total you know you know maybe a month or two. uh you know with the rumblings and then all that. But it was like three hardcore weeks of him getting a show taken away and then producing phenomenal Tonight Show, him going on a live tour, becoming one of the biggest podcasters in the world, never mind the fact that he still got a late night show where he could do whatever he wanted afterwards because he hadn't quite scratched that itch yet. Um what do you think? Do you have any thoughts as to what Colbear might do or you know, have you thought about that at all?

I I tell you what I think the move is. I don't think he'll do it. I think if the Democrats aren't on the phone with him right now, I I think they're making a mistake.

Wow.

He's 61 years old, so he'd be 63 64 at the time of the next election.

Y

um he's well spoken. He's telegenic. He looks nice on camera. He can debate. He can speak. I feel like he could give an old style uh Reagan-esque and Reagan was a Republican, but a Reagan-esque, you know, as a country, who do we want to be the shining city on the hill? This country can be great, and here's why. He's not a yeller. He's not a screamer.

I I I think if the Democrats are not on the phone with him right now, I think if the Democrats are not on the phone with my uh I used to produce David Pluff's podcast, Pluff ran the uh first Obama campaign. Y

and tell Pluff, hey, you can't sit on TV anymore taking shots. You got to work this time. I think if the Democrats are on the on the phone with the Pod Save America guys, go and get behind this Bros. Um I think Co Bear would be a very interesting candidate. The people who don't like him already don't like him, so there's no loss there. I think he would appeal to the me to the middle as just a decent human being who can speak and be calm. That's what I think he should do. Um, what he will do, I don't know, a podcast. I mean, I I guess is is that interesting though?

Well, it would be interesting. There's no question it would be interesting. Um, you listen to them on, you know, Strike Force, the Strike Force 5 guys should all quit their shows and and and do something. One of our listeners suggested that to me. uh you know yeah that that that that's the the idea that he and John I I imagine Steven Cobar untethered again because the one thing about Steven Coar that that that we've seen the last 10 years is he's been the statesman guy. He's been the guy who has looked at this as the Tiffany network. I'm their late night signature host and I have this all on my shoulders. Um I think that is the reason that he went with the winning formula. But really at the end of the day, um, his mischief muscle has certainly it's not atrophied, but it hasn't been given the chance to flex the way that it can. I believe that this man is a very mischievous, he's got a lot of mischief in him.

Like when you think back to his time when he was a correspondent on the Daily Show um you know and some of the things that he would do and then creating the Col Bear Report. I mean that guy went hard in the paint created a character that who cares if half of the country thinks I'm actually this guy which was the case you know um you know like it's almost like pro wrestling the footage showing of the good guy wrestler and the bad guy wrestler emerging. There's a video online showing where where Colbear is behind the scenes of the Colbear report saying, "Oh, no, it's just a character.

You know, it's just a character and he's talking like that." And people were dismayed. It was controversial. The guy commits to a bit. And uh you know, to the idea that he could be untethered and can do something like that uh is exciting to me. We just had uh at the the time we're recording this, actually the episode dropped. We just had uh Uber producer Robert Morton uh one of my favorite people on the planet on, you know, former executive producer of of of both Late Night and Late Show with David Letterman. Um and uh uh you know, he he he's gone a different way. He thinks Co Bear's going to pivot. He thinks uh Colbear is going to do Broadway and and and do at least a run or two on a Broadway show of some sort because he's got those itches that he likes to scratch as well. I thought that was a very interesting idea.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yep, it does. I think a lot of people would pay would pay uh pay money to go see Stephen Cobber on Broadway. I certainly would.

Yeah, I I I think that makes a lot of sense. especially, you know, he's got the money, so the the next gig, I mean, everything's always about the money, but it doesn't have to be about the money.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I I think that that that Yeah. And then the idea that uh like I don't know I don't know if John Stewart's days are numbered um over there or not and if they're just waiting to reload the gun before they before they start firing again. But um the idea of Colbear and Stewart doing something together, those two are a tour to force. Um, and when they, you know, when they decide to do things, uh, together, the, you know, the possibilities are endless. And again, when you take the the shackles of network TV off somebody and give them the freedom to do that. So, I there's a part of me that wonders like if I could ask Stephen, I I wonder if there's a part of him that's looking forward to this, you know, and and uh it's it's it's it's I think he the staff obviously is one of those things where, you know, I I think Steven Coar has shown that how much of a giving person he is. I've talked to people who are on the staff and they talk about how he is as a boss and um the idea that it's out of his hands and all of this responsibility that is on his shoulders is suddenly going to be gone. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens. I'm curious if this is going to fatigue. I I was I've been watching every night again and I haven't watched every night for a long time. I DVR them all. But and I do all of them like I in case something happens, right?

I have it that way. I have it. Uh but I've been watching all week and yes, he's still kind of he's still dancing. he's but he's not throwing a lot of haymay makers and it's going to be interesting to see if there's a fatigue over this next 10 months uh with that or if it can get to a fever pitch and it just crescendos. Um it's going to be very interesting to see what the momentum of this looks like.

Now not to give you a hard time but I think you just illustrated the problem Mr. host of the Letterman podcast. Letterman the former host of Late Show. You weren't watching.

Yeah.

So So why are we making this thing?

Yeah. It's it's a great point, you know, and and and that you know, I was talking to the the founder of late nighter.com not too long ago about this and and it's funny. Uh we the episode dropped the day of the Colbear um announcement and and and and when we were talking, we were we were bullish about it. We were bullish about late night and because SNL in SNL the SNL50s season um it was the most profitable year they ever had and it was because they put a lot of thought into how they can be profitable and it was partnerships with advertisers and it was different different ways of being um you know creatively profitable in in all the positive ways not not uh not not the way the mafia is creatively profitable. Um, it was it was a and and and that thought could be put to late night uh where you are doing what Seth Myers is doing. Yes, you're cutting the band, but you're also uh integrating products within the show.

You're doing other ways kind of like what you're talking about here, what you talked about earlier. Um, but yeah, is the medium changing? And this is where we look at like Netflix and what they're doing. Um, did you you liked you liked everybody's live, right? You enjoyed it. I liked Everybody's in LA. Yeah. I did not like Everybody's Live. There was just something wrong with that second series. I I I I honestly feel like it was misproduced, underproduced. Uh you know, going to the callers and that's a thing I know from doing talk radio. Don't let the inmates run the asylum. Don't let the civilians steer the show. Mhm.

Um I I get the idea of the controlled chaos of let's just throw on, you know, you know, part of this is I if if you ever book David Letterman, here's what you should do.

Hi Dave, thanks for doing the show. And then stop talking. You have David Letterman. Don't go, "Hey Dave, uh you know, Frank from Chicago wants to say hi." Don't do that. Um, don't say this week my guests here on the Letterman podcast are David Letterman and a guy who owns a florist in Tampa. Like, what are you doing? And so, I think the show was all over the place. Um, I I said at the time I didn't think it was working. I kind of quickly noticed just because of what I do for a living, there wasn't really buzz on it outside of the the trades were writing about it and, you know, the cool kids sites were writing about it, but the civilians weren't talking about it. And apparently was getting 500,000 an episode. That's not a lot.

No. And and uh this is the other part, the unfortunate part. I was just on um I was just on the Greetings from the Idiot Box podcast and we talked about this earlier. Um Conan was given two years at NBC. He really was. And and and don't get me wrong, they were looking for the escape uh pods along the way. They were renewing him for 13 weeks at a time and all that. And that two years could have easily been truncated and and and cut short, but he was given two years and then he became Conan O'Brien. Like he was given that time to do that. Now Netflix does have the time, patience, money to give somebody time to find their footing. The thing about the second se see and and you and I are in disagreement about that. Like I loved the second season of Everybody's Live. Every single time there was a cringe-worthy moment. Everything you're just talking about was some of the stuff that I loved.

You know, you have this person call in and they're trying to turn they're trying to turn it into something and if they can't turn it into something, they're just kind of looking around and it's awkward and it's I don't think that there's enough of that these days, I think. And it's because I was raised on it. I loved The Office because it gave me the same vibes that Early Letterman did when they had some of these awkward moments, you know. Um the the show the thing about it was it was clearly um a lot of time, effort, thought was put into it compared to Everybody's in LA which was during the Netflix is a joke comedy festival and and and there was a lot of spontaneity to it. This one here had running jokes throughout the whole season like building up to the kids fighting him. Uh the the the bone thugs and harmony thing was was to me was very very very funny. the through line of that through uh running running through it.

But and then also some of the the the produced pieces some of the produced pieces I thought were misses like no no no no question about that but the awkwardness on the show the chaos of the multiple guests and yes you're throwing enough to me we've got an alchemy here that could be mixed into a pretty good potion if given the time space um allowance to do that. My question is is is is is what everything I've heard of how hard everybody worked on this second season to do this. Um I'm curious if Melany is is is is a guy who has the Letterman Leno Colbear um you know gene or if he has the Chvy Chase Pat Sjack gene you know and and he he now knows that he now knows the work ethic that it takes to make a show like this work. Does he want to do that or did he scratch an edge? And that's the question I more want to ask. And if he he still wants to do it and commit to it, I hope Netflix gives him the opportunity to retool it uh how it needs to be so it can it can have that Conan effect.

Well, next year Netflix will do the comedy festival again. They've been doing it every two years.

Yep.

So you you do it in LA. And again, uh you know, hey, welcome to everybody's whatever we're calling it this time. And my guest tonight are

Nikki Glazer, Shane Gillis, and uh you know, the earthquake expert. And

again, I'm not saying I'm talented, but if you spot me, Shane Gillis and Nikki Glazer, all I really have to do is go, "Hey, Shane," and shut up and and let him do a Trump impression. And and we're halfway there.

Yeah. True. Um, the other thing I want to note about that show is is there was clearly somebody whether it was the EP or whether it was John himself um clearly had a nostalgic value for music and that's what the other thing I love about the show and and and the thing about network uh late night television shows is music was becoming the bane of the existence. They put them at the very end of the show. uh many times they weren't even including uh when they were looking at the ratings, they weren't even including the musical act and and whatnot because of the business of television and how that works. But at the same time, you have a host here clearly who has a very very um like having Alanis Moriceette on there as an example. That's that's one of the examples that I have there.

A lot of the the millennials, Gen Z's, millennials maybe, but Gen Z certainly, they don't realize that when that album came out, it crushed the continent for the entire the world in fact, for the entire summer, you know, and the idea that they're having some of these people on there to me is a bit of a flashback to some of the musical acts Late Night with David Letterman would have on, you know, old acts that were really big but hadn't been around for a long, long time. And let's celebrate with these people and let's see what's going on. And sometimes we can shine up that penny again where you know it's glistening and blinding you in the sun. Um I love that they did that. Like I said, they had a lot of cool ingredients that they used and you're right. Um if the puck is going in that direction anyway, Netflix is moving towards, you know, so much comedy. Morty and I talked about this on the episode of the show. They he thinks that they should buy the Ed Sullivan Theater.

They can use it for comedy specials. They can use it for all sorts of stuff. Maybe you put John Mady in there when he's going to do a run of shows. Maybe you you bring Steven Cobar on for a special every now and then. That kind of a thing. Um it certainly seems that Netflix is embracing this type of stuff where the network television just because the medium is changing. Um they're they're they're losing out on these things. That's what it appears to be.

So what you're getting at and and when I was at SiriusXM, we really uh played this card and I'll also tie it into what I brought up earlier about as CBS, who do we want to be? As Fox, who do we want to be? Yes. You're talking about the cool party to be at. So, if we're Netflix, hey, we have this cool John Melany show. You don't you don't need to know the viewing figures. It's cool, right? It's cool. Uh we have football, we have wrestling, we we have cool movies, we have Happy Gilmore, too, even though Johnny Mack thinks it's terrible. Uh we have all these things that people like. It's a cool party to be at. Now, what and we ran this playbook at Sirius. What that allows you to do is you get to go to the other cool kids who are going to be like, "Well, who else is at the party?" Oh, yeah. No, we we do the Melanie show. We let him do whatever he wants. We'd love to be in business with you, Mike. Um, you know, talk to John.

He'll he'll tell you we don't interfere. It's just uh you know, we're creatives and we get it and we want you to do your thing, Mike. So, why don't you sign up with us? And now another cool person is at the cool party. And so, so there is value to doing that Melany show. And again, in 26, just go to the comedy festival and and book Alisters and and do seven days like you did two years ago. And it it that show will suddenly seem like it's found its footing.

That's where I see it going. And it just like, you know, we talk about the idea that CBS could have gotten creative uh with with with solutions for Colbear if they truly wanted him. This is where I, you know, I it feels like they truly didn't want him. I believe that Netflix truly wants John Melany um and his immense talent all over the place. My gosh, we just watched season four of the bear and I his acting ability, you know, he made a cameo again in one of those episodes. Insanely talented guy and I believe it the you look at the way that Dave talks about how he's treated at Netflix. Um, and he can kind of do whatever he wants. I feel like if he wanted to do 20 my next guests in a year, they would let him do it, but he wants to do a handful of them, so they let him do it. and uh and and and and you like you just said, nurturing the creative uh muscles that that's what that's what creatives dream that they can have a a scenario, a sandbox that they can play in where they can just make whatever they want in there. And I think Netflix is extremely intelligent in how they're doing that. Um the playbook that they've created is is is is it's astounding. It's it really really is. And uh I hope it comes back.

whatever it looks like, I do hope it comes back because of exactly what you just said. Um, the alternative music section may have been the smallest in the music store, but that was the section I went to and that's what kept me coming back to the store back in the day. So, yeah, I think you're probably right.

Also, as Melany ages and his children age, I don't think he's tired of the road yet. But, uh, you see many artists reach the point of whether it's a Las Vegas residency or just taking a break. Hey, John. Uh, you know, here's 30 weeks of steady work at a good paycheck and you can just show up on Wednesdays in Los Angeles. Like, I know they don't just put the show together in an hour, but no.

Um, but he could be home every night with the wife and kids and and not have to tour and make a good living. That could appeal to him.

I totally agree with that. And I think I think it also um the sensibility of the fact that you know you look at the British British uh television model for a long time the original office had what 11 episodes 12 episodes with a special something like that right they they they had they didn't call them seasons they were series um and and I think that uh there's appeal to that as opposed to the the daunting you know 21 25 episode uh sitcom season where it's grueling. Um, I do think that you're exactly right. That is where the puck is going. And if that's if that's uh what they're going to cater to, Melanie is a great guy to do that with and they're doing that with so many different people. And again, comedy, like is is Netflix I you you would be a better uh you'd be you you'd have a a good knowledge on this. Is Netflix the place that has the most specials? Is that the platform right now that has the most standup comedy? Um is Hulu even in the in the picture? Uh where are we from?

Hulu is doing one a month. who listen. They're positioned as a curated one a month. Uh Netflix has most often a new special on Tuesday, but not every Tuesday, but usually there's a new one. Uh Amazon somewhere in between.

We'll talk about this some other day. You know, define special because, you know, everybody's recording a set at the Chuckle Hut and putting it up on YouTube and saying, "Hey, check out my new special." It's not a special. It's an hour and you whatever. Yes. Um,

but in terms of things that us oldies would consider, you know, sons of whatever HBO used to do 30 years ago, Netflix has the most there, the paychecks are not what they were 10 years ago. There was crazy money for a while.

Uh, but the exposure is good and and this was another thing we saw at Sirius. At first, the comedians were like, I don't know. And then they realized their name was getting out there and they were selling a ton of tickets. So, if you're a known commodity because you had a Netflix special, that's good for your career.

Absolutely. Um, yeah. H,

it's funny the I I can tell that I'm becoming an old man more and more and more every single day because I think about the things that my father and his friends they there was an auto body shop like a sitcom could have been shot, you know, in what I'm about to say. My father would hang out at this auto body shop and at 10:15 in the morning every day it'd be coffee time and they'd go into the coffee room inside this auto body shop and you'd listen to these characters talk about the old days when it came to music, when it came to movies, when it came to all of these things and how and and I'm becoming that now.

Sure.

But I feel like I'm becoming that because I'm the thing that I had as a as a as a backbone almost network television is a backbone to me. Um and and it's and it's going away. It's it's it's clearly going away. Um, you know, I don't believe CBS is, by the way, going to give 11:30 back to the affiliates. You know, let's face it. You know, they're going to they're they're going to land on their feet. It is going to be profitable for them. I don't think it's dead yet. Um, but you just brought up the HBO comedy special or or or special on HBO. That was almost a sacred thing back in the day when a comic would be able to go up. Um, like I think about Chris Rock special on HBO. That was that was such a major thing. and now it's become pop music and there are these specials all over the place. I do believe Netflix is handling it well. Uh I'm curious what you think about the idea of okay if if if a special is no longer a special, it's now a a featured hour, whatever you want to call it. Um is the next frontier, and it seems like Netflix is starting to master this now.

Um is the next frontier a standup going up and doing a live special? Rogan did it, which I give him all the credit in the world for doing. Um, is that gonna be the next uh jump up and the next echelon of comic? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. You think you could do that? Was an hour shot over three days wearing the same clothes and three shots, whatnot, edited. Let's do it live. Is that Do you think that's where the puck might be going when it comes to to comedy?

Yes. Because live's an event. So, here, let me give you a premise. Steven Cobear is going live on Netflix Saturday night at 10 p.m. You're going to watch. Now, you could watch Steven Coar five nights a week, whatever he's going to say, but oh, Saturday night at 10 live, that's it's somehow more dangerous, right? What's he going to say?

Yep. I I totally agree with that. Like Like I liked Rogan's live special. Um I think a couple of his previous specials were probably tighter and better and whatnot, but they weren't live. And and and the fact that he walked that highwire act, uh that walked that highwire, I should say, um and did it. Anytime Co Bear did the Late Show live, I always thought it was a better it was a better presentation. There's an electricity that's there and the event is that's that's the only thing that's getting people to get organized is when things are an event. So, um yeah, I yeah, I'm with you on that.

Uh I want to talk about the letterman of this all. Dave

Dave is not Johnny. Johnny went quietly into the night.

Dave is still around. I could see if I'm Jimmy Kimmel, I'm asking Dave to do a guest spot and I know what that conversation would be like and it will be feisty and it will get news pickup and I won't be surprised at all if it happens. I imagine David Letterman will be one of the final, if not the final guests on the Colar era late show.

And you know, again, Johnny was happy to just be like, "Okay, that happened and I'm not really going to talk about it." Uh, but Dave Dave will throw a rock. He doesn't throw a ton of rocks, but he'll throw one really good rock.

I think that's a good uh a really good analogy. Like like it's summertime and Dave's in vacation mode, but yet he still did take the time to shoot an episode of the Barbara Gain show, which I don't believe he's ever done in in in the summertime like this before, uh you know, to talk about it. Um he in that in that interview or that in that uh you know, that that conversation, uh he talked about going and kissing the ring. He talked about, you know, he alluded to it already. Um, every time he opens its mouth, it's going to be really interesting. I, uh, I would love to ask him. I don't think Dave's particularly nostalgic about the franchise that he created, but at the same time, I know other people are. Um, there are a lot of people in the Letterman world who worked for Late Show that the idea that this franchise is going away, this franchise that they busted their ass to build um to compete against the Tonight Show is going away um is extremely emotional for a lot of these people and uh you know, well, I say a lot, a handful. I've talked to a handful of them, you know, between five and 10 uh at length about it. And and and um Dave is a cat. He's an interesting cat, a different one. I do believe that he also doesn't like injustice.

You know, you think about Dave when when he talked about uh during the Conan again, the last circus time 09010

and and some of the most interesting Letterman to watch was that era and just every single night just commenting on the events of the day of what NBC was doing with Conan and Leno and all of that stuff. Um you know that that muscle is sitting there with him. So if it's a one rock, okay, it's going to be a hell of a rock. But then there's that part of him that you wonder if they if if CBS flips that switch in Dave and he's just going to want to talk more and more and more about it. I believe that he will have many venues to do that because all the talk show hosts are happy. They're Strikeforce 5 now. He will have many places to do that whenever he wants. Um including on his YouTube channel. It's going to be very interesting to see this fall when they get to a a more regular recording uh schedule of the Barbara Gaines show on on on the Letterman YouTube channel. It's going to be very interesting to see how often he comments on it. And my I I I flat out say this, I hope it's going to be like it was with Conan and Leno.

if every week we get Letterman going off with Mary and and and Barbara about this and and just throwing, you know, throwing these rocks like you say. Uh oh, that would be so much fun. And there's a part of me that thinks that that's exactly what's going to happen and is hoping for it. I I find myself this week feeling bad for Jay Leno. I know Jay Leno is the worst person who ever lived in the history of humankind because um somebody offered him his job back and he said yes. I I understand that he's just just just a terrible terrible terrible human being. Um but he is catching so much grief this week for the comments he made before

before the announcement. Yes.

Before.

Yes.

They surfaced after, but he made them before.

Uh you know, I I'll tie this into Jimmy Fallon. Uh Jimmy Fallon catches a lot of grief. Jimmy Fallon can do a lot more than Jimmy Fallon currently does, but Jimmy Fallon un understands the gig. It's You're hosting the Tonight Show. That's what the gig is. You're not guest hosting the Howard Stern show. You're you're hosting the Tonight Show.

That's right.

So Jimmy Fallon runs The Formula. Jay Leno ran the formula very successfully. Apparently, America found Conan O'Brien a little too weird for the Tonight Show. They like him as Conan O'Brien. They liked him as son of David Letterman, but they didn't like him at 11:30. Well discussed was NBC too quick, all that, whatever.

Yep.

Um, but Jay Leno understood the formula. So his comments about not splitting the audience.

There's some merit to that. We can debate it, but the amount of grief he's catching for those comments, I just think is just crazy. I'll let you go and then I I have I have a a notion that's going to make me unpopular, but I'll let I'll let you address the L thing here on your own show that I've hijacked.

Yeah. No, no, no, no. This is this is good. And and and I mean, yeah, like it's not like it wasn't consistent. I can point to many many interviews and and and and conversations that Jay Leno has had with many different people. Uh Rogan, his his appearance on Rogan is one of them for sure. That's the one that comes out. I believe when he talked with Bill Maher also, uh there's I believe a conversation with Howie Mandel where where you know these are recent more recent ones, but he's talked about it for years. It was a Carson formula. You didn't know Johnny's politics. You know, it was a reason why Carson was differentiated from and and some would say why maybe perhaps a guy like Dick Kavitt didn't make the inroads that he could have made. um because you knew Dick Cavitt's politics in in in many respects, right? Leno firmly believed you don't want to isolate half the audience. You don't want to piss them off. If you're going to make fun of a politician, you do it equally.

And and and and and the goal is to not know what their politics are. Leno has said this forever. It was his it was his mo. It's the reason he was pop music. It's the reason why the Tonight Show in my opinion um with Leno Helming beat David Letterman mostly in the run in the in in the ratings was because of that. that's his and now he's in his 70s and and and he's just saying the same thing that he's always said but for whatever reason in this time and place he's being um as far as I'm concerned unfairly uh unfairly uh uh uh judged about that because he's got a point. you know, if you're talking about, you know, if you're Jerry Seinfeld and you're talking about Ovaltine or you're talking about, you know, um um um chocolate covered raisins and that's what you're talking about, you're not really pissing anybody off. And if that's the goal, you want to stay away from politics and you don't want people to know what they are.

So, the the part that that that is ridiculous to me is he's being consistent and now being rad over the coals for consistency.

Yeah. Jay played to middle America, I'll call it, and Cranky Dave played on the edges. And some of us I'm cranky and I'm from New York City, so I'm over here with Dave. Um, you know, calling hogwash the things we see is hogwash and Jay played in the middle and did the Hey, did you see this thing?

And but that was the gig.

Yes. Yes. Uh, I I saw an article this week claiming Jay was clearly right-wing because of who he made fun of or not. And I reacted to that. So, if we look at the presidents, if if we just head backwards

Mhm.

whatever your politics are.

Mhm.

Trump is a character. There are clearly things you can have fun with. As a comedian, there are things you can have fun with. Biden, not so much. He wasn't a fun character to take out for a drive on SNL. What are you going to do? We wear sunglasses and, you know, maybe you make old jokes. It's not that much fun.

Y

um Obama,

y

there wasn't that much to make fun of. Nobody really ever nailed a definitive Obama impression, you know, because again, whatever your politics were, he was from a presidential standpoint cool because he just wasn't an 80-year-old guy, so there wasn't much to make fun of.

Yep.

George W. he would misspeak. There was something to grab on to. Uh Dana Carvey figured out how to do George H. Bill Clinton. Fun character. And Jay is catching I think some revisionist history grief about Lewinsky jokes. And we should feel bad for an intern who was taken advantage of. Absolutely. I just want to put that out there.

Totally. But the Bill Clinton jokes were about this guy that's clearly cheating on his wife and pretending he's not and Hillary's going to kill him. And that it was the married husband got caught Yes. humor, not the preying on the innocent intern uh part of it. And I think that has gotten conflated over the years that I've seen a lot of this week of well Jay Leno made Lewinsky jokes. Um Jay Leno made Bill Clinton jokes if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean like like Letterman called Clinton Bubba. Like it wasn't just Lewinsky jokes either. It was also McDonald's jokes and other it was it was it was because yeah Clinton was a character. The Phil Hartman impression of him on Saturday Night Live um you know accentuated all of all everything that you're talking about and this is what the late night guys were were talking about. Yeah. I it's so funny. um the idea of trying to as you were talking about that I'm going back in the way back machine of my mind and going okay yeah what were what do you think Lenel's politics were I could have seen he made fun of everybody equally there's no question about that back then if there was a scandal of any sort you could make fun of them and the the the collateral damage was not taken into consideration in the same way that it is today the idea that people are saying oh he was clearly right-wing because of Lewinsky jokes um in my mind clearly weren't there at the time and place and they're taking things completely out of context which is the MMO for um in my mind a very uh vocal but silly minority out there like like you know you give the megaphone to some some some if you give the megaphone to ignorance um you know a lot of silly things are going to be said and and and and to me that's just ignorance and and not not even in a malicious way it's a lack of knowledge.

It's taking today's standards and putting them back into a time and place where those standards weren't even a consideration at that time. And I and I love the fact, by the way, that you have um people who have made um you know, apologetic remarks or or or or shown regret for making jokes particularly about Monica Lewinsky. I've heard many people uh comedians um and talk about the idea that you know what yeah we used her as a as a piñata um because it was an easy joke but really you know time and place if it was today we wouldn't we wouldn't do that um so so I love that there is thoughtfulness about that but to say that that was Leno's politics because of that no no no no no everybody was making fun of Clinton at the time in fact it shows to me that uh that pop culture and entertainment is able to make fun of both a Democrat and a Republican. Okay, you think they're making fun of Trump right now. They made everybody was making fun of Clinton back then. He was a punchline all the time.

And I think that's a great point. Like it's it's it's it's I don't think the comparison is there because Trump is more of a gregarious character than than Clinton was. And he and Trump kind of welcomes it. Talk about the pro wrestling thing. He's like he's trying to get heat. I don't think Clinton was trying to get heat, but the media was not um afraid to make fun of Bill Clinton back in the day. So, it's it's it's a great discussion point to compare the two actually.

And they'll they'll make fun of the next president and if the president's persona has more room for comedic fodder, they'll make more fun of them. And if it's not a good target or whatever the news of the day on that day is, they'll make fun of that. At some point, there's a rhythm to comedy. And I'll get back to just understanding what the gig is. So if you're hosting an 11:30 show,

you're commenting on the news of the day and you're playing till the water cooler and the joke has to go down the middle. You can't set up like, "Hey, Mike. Yeah, so this thing happened in the news. Let me explain it to you." D and here's a joke. You You can't do that. You just have to go right down the middle with, "Hey, did you see the tsunami warning the other day?" Punchline, right? Yep.

Straightforward.

Uh uh the great Bob Hope. Now, Bob Hope aligned himself in real life with Republican presidents. Bob Hope, if you go back and look at the body of work,

made fun of all the presidents. Whoever the president was,

the jester made fun of you.

Um, Hope had a rhythm to I I like listening to his old material. And because the structure of the joke is solid, you can follow along even if you don't know the the particulars. though uh to do a poor man's Bob Hope style joke. Uh it's great to be here at M McGillicuy Air Force Base and uh I saw General Johnson just went for one of the free hot dogs. Now I don't know why that's funny, but Hope would make it funny and you'd be like, "Oh, I guess General Johnson likes his hot dogs or whatever the joke was." But the soldiers would laugh at it and there was a rhythm to it. And if you go back and listen, he tells a variation of that joke over and over. Just replace the details. Hey, it's great to be here in Ohio, Governor Smith, da da da punch line. And it if you're hosting 11:30 and the news is Bill Clinton's affairs, uh, if the joke, the same article I I had a problem with was giving Leno grief for making fun of the woman in the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit.

Yep.

No one wants an old woman to be burned. Of course not. Jay Leno didn't want a woman to be injured. But the joke is, did you see this? Did you not know coffeey's hot? That's the joke.

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. It's it's it's the foibless of human nature and and and and um that's exactly right to I do like that we have a thoughtfulness in our in our um in our culture now that perhaps didn't exist back then. I do believe the baby has been thrown out with the bath water when it comes to this stuff many times. And and there are so many things that we can make fun of Jay Leno about. This is one thing that in my opinion is not worth making fun about when there's so many other things that we can make fun about him for. So, you know, um yeah, it's it's uh it's interesting times that we are in for sure. I uh you know, I would say that uh it couldn't be scripted if it wasn't real life some of these things that are happening and it's it's just uh um and and time and place and changing. But I like I say, I like being able to to make the bowl of popcorn and just watch it happen and see what what things uh transpire from it.

It's it's it's an interesting time. And I'm grateful again, and I hate to say that we got to wrap things up, but but um uh but we got to wrap things up here soon. Um I'm grateful that there are people like you out there who have this width and breadth of knowledge and experience within the business that are commenting on the business. Like I like again, I cannot endorse your podcast enough. Uh, I'm glad that the numbers are are are are steadily going up and and and you're doing everything with your network there. Um, and by the way, Alex Bennett says hi. He told me to tell you to say hi. So, so we'll do that. So, thank you very much for hosting the show that you do. I appreciate it very very much. Uh, until we connect again, is there anything else that we need to Do we miss anything before we uh No. Uh, I I kind of sort of want to talk about Seth Meyers, but I don't really have anything to say about it, and I think that's my point. Um, I like his comedy special. Seems like a cool dude to hang out with.

Um, whereas I feel like Jimmy Fallon is hosting Jack Parr's show. I don't feel like Seth Meyers is hosting David Letterman's show. Conan did.

Fallon might have, but I just feel it has the same name and it's on 12:30 and I don't feel like it has any cultural impact. Um, again, I don't dislike Seth Meyers, but I I have said that phrase, cultural impact, on my program many times. It's just this weird thing that exists to me that I don't know why it exists. Um, it exists to give us Wally Ferstein. That's why that's why to unleash Wall-E to us and and introduce the gift that is Wally Ferin to all of us. That's why Seth Myers exists. Um, I could not agree with you more where it has it has gotten to the point where, you know, like originally Fred Armistid was in the band, you know, and there's there there's a there's pop there and it's different and it's got a personality and all that and it feels like, okay, now Fred's not in the band anymore cuz they're just going to and now we're going to get rid of the band and now we're going to, you know, there is no monologue.

He's at the desk now and and it's and it's is it weekend update except it's just weekend update daily. Well, no, it's not quite that either. And and and don't get me wrong, some of the bits on that show, the stuff Seth can't say. I that that is a tremendous tremendous bit. Uh I love that. Uh you know, where you bring out writers and they can they can make certain jokes because of their the cultural approp the appropriateness of the joke. Seth can't make that joke, but they can. Love that. Clever. Um, and I do I actually am really starting to enjoy Seth more uh as a conversationalist, but I am curious what long form would look like in that regard as opposed to his podcast and things which are more specific. The idea of what his conversations would look like more in a long form sort of Tom Sniderish type situation, I don't know. I it'd be interesting.

But to your point, I don't think the show has an identity so much other than him being at the desk and being kind of like he's Weekend Update Seth, which I loved. I loved him at Weekend Update, by the way. So, yeah, I don't know. And maybe perhaps he's a little bit maybe he's in limbo a little bit too because maybe there are Saturday Night Live conversations going on in the background. I don't know. But it does it does certainly feel of all of the shows u like and you know you brought up Fallon you look at Kimmel right the one thing with Kimmel everyone says he's the most like Dave and maybe that is true in some respects but there is one massive difference with Kimmel and Dave and that is um whereas Dave the network you know with NBC especially uh but but even with CBS is that super cut on his YouTube channel has shown was a rival. Kimmel, that's not the case. Kimmel is into Star Wars and comic books and all of these sorts of things.

And Disney owns his thing and he is the promotion machine for the network that owns his or for the the company that owns his network and his show and all that stuff. And to me, it seems like he has happily accepted that role. So would I, by the way, because all these franchises and things. I would totally be interested in talking to Robert Downey Jr. about the differences between playing Tony Stark and Dr. Doom.

Let's do it. This sounds like fun. Plus, I got a a team of uh ninja-like writers where I can skewer whoever I want to skewer. Yeah, let's do that, too. And I can use my rapier wit um and and and and and exercise these things as well and and have some mischievous fun the way Dave did. And I get to do that like to me. And I get to bring guest hosts in and I can get to the point where I don't care and I can work on the schedule that I want.

Man, Kimmel's got a Kimmel's got a good gig right now. And um it feels like um you know he's the happiest guy in late night right now. Um to me Seth, yeah, if we could find a more of an identity for him the way that Kimmel's got it, you know, that might save that show, but it is not late night.

Conan O'Brien hosted late night in my opinion. I

if that show ends in 2028 when his contract is up and that wouldn't be shocking. I I don't think we'd be like, "Oh, I can't believe they got rid of Letterman's franchise." It just doesn't feel like the same thing.

Yes.

Um maybe he'd be smart to grab the Lauren Michaels gig and you know, you can make your own rules. No one's saying as the showrunner, you could put yourself on your own show that you run because no one can say no to you. You you could do three minutes on weekend update every week if you wanted and turn that into a thing. Um, as for Kimmel, I think he will benefit from there being one fewer 11:30 show. Um, because people have to tune into something and just from a psychoraph, all right, where should we go? I think they're more likely to go to Kimmel um than Jimmy Fallon. Uh, you know, Kimmel loves floating. I think this is it. Um, you're in your 50s. You got plenty of time left.

Yeah. You clearly can say to ABC, "Hey, I want summers off." And they go, "Yeah, maybe you want a longer Christmas break." They'll say, "Yeah." Yep. Hey, uh, you know, Carson had a guest host every Monday for the last 15 years. I don't want to do Mondays anymore. Let's let Anthony Anderson do Mondays and I'll do Tuesday to Thursday and Friday is a rerun. Sure, whatever you want, Jimmy. And I I think he should and will stick around.

I agree fully. And I'm glad about that, too, because uh I I I enjoy his show the most. I mean, don't get me wrong, Colbear, like I really really do like Co Bear and I I I I appreciate them all. I actually really like Fallon, too. How talented he is and and and and every once in a while he brings out

He is

He's so talented. He's so talented.

He catches so much grief. We've we've beaten this horse already, but

he's he's running the Tonight Show. Don't judge him by that.

That's right. That's exactly right. Uh it's it's a lot. And again, like we said with Co Bear, it's gonna be interesting to see what he does when these shackles are off. Those shackles are massive and heavy, and you've gotta you've got to tow the line. You've got to be you're hooked up to this machine, and you've got to be uh a whole bunch of things that your personality and your your talent um get left behind in in that. And uh yes, and so Fallon, he catches a lot of a lot of crap, but I I I really appreciate his talent a lot. I certainly hope out of this whole thing,

I certainly hope we get to see more Strikeforce Fives here soon. Um, it would be a great time to start seeing that and to and to bring on like, you know, when they when they did their first run, they brought on John Stewart, they brought on David Letterman as guest. They, you know, that would be really really cool to see more of that happen in this next 10 months. It's certainly going to be fun. And in this next 10 months, you and I, I'm certain, are going to be talking, uh, both in front of the camera and behind the scenes as well, uh, during one of the most exciting times that we've seen in recent memory in comedy in late night. Thank you for doing what you do. Johnny Mack, uh, everybody out there, subscribe, uh, get a second uh, email account, and then subscribe a second time to the Daily Comedy News podcast. Please do that. Johnny Mack, you are amazing. Thank you so much for showing up in this uh, mashup of your show and my show. and it's just this beautiful delight. Thank you for showing up today.

Now, I always love doing your program. You do a great job as well. I have uh it it'll be a week later or so by the time people hear this, but uh I grabbed the Morty episode to listen to later today while walking the dog and looking forward to it.

Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much, John. I appreciate that very very much. Uh this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast and a special episode of the daily uh comedy uh podcast news uh daily comedy news podcast rather uh show. This is uh Johnny Mack. I am Mike Chisum. Thank you and good night.

Overcoat and underpants.