Steve Randisi Wrote The Inside Story of The Merv Griffin Show

hey it's me John Beckerman and you are watching the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum and coincidentally I am Mike Chisum that's your bit right that's your bit that's my bit doing your bit thank welcome to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum all right we got Steve Rand DC part two part two of two uh we had it was too big of a conver ation and uh we had to break it up into two episodes in this episode here in this in this uh second part here we talk a lot a lot of Johnny Carson stuff um but also we talk about the comedians that MV broke into the business um and much more his business Acumen we talk more about that um just a really fun um just a really fun episode uh just just the conversation it was like butter Steve and I can talk like this and and we actually talked for about 40 5 minutes after um after it ended we just shot the bull about this stuff it's just so great to have somebody um who appreciates um from his perspective this genre that we all love so much and Steve Rand DC is that guy here is part two of my conversation with author of MV Griffin the Inside Story Steve Ren DC and I remember when when that three-way talk show war was starting up I could remember p people saying you who are you gonna watch tonight Joey Johnny or MV you know now you had a choice no VCRs folks no no VCRs were were years and years away I experienced that I experienced life before vcr and life after VCR at the perfect age as a letterman fan and I gotta tell you boy oh boy that that VCR was a godsend I was the first guy on my on my block to have a VCR I got mine in 78 one old VHS format wow and people thought I was crazy they like how much television could you are you crazy how much TV can you watch oh yeah I said well no I want to be able to tape certain things and certain programs that I miss Y and uh you know that was you know that that was the new technology of the time of that day yeah just imagine if you had had a VCR back in the in the early in the formative years of exactly exactly um oh that is so the journey for the book How long did it take to to uh once he caught up once you got the concept and and you became clear on it was the uh was the work fast was it was it Swift and and and and and come out very easily or was it a grind it it was something of a grind it could have come out uh you know I'm not the most prolific author on the Block and I I write very very slowly I have very very odd uh habits when it I I'm one of these odd people I have to write in a public place I have to sit in a coffee shop dig other where other people are writing they're sitting there with their laptops and their computers and their you know and their tablets and I sort of like extract energy from that yeah I would be sitting there working on MV and a lot of college people would come over and what are you working on I say well I'm writing a book about MV Griffin and then of course invariably I had to explain to them who MB Griffin was they didn't know you know they weren't even born when he was on the air and I said well you watch Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune oh yes sure every night you watch that show until the end of the episode and you'll see it says on there created by MV Griffin I said that's who MV Griffin was he was an iconic daytime fixture and Johnny was the king of late night and MV was sort of like the prince of daytime yeah absolutely he was again and really until Rosie and Ellen Rosie you know you know no one in that Medium I mean Donahue Great you know Oprah great but that wasn't what no we're talking like the variety show um we got to get to answer to answer your original question to answer your thank you for paying attention and understanding because I just go down the rabbit hole I keep going yes absolutely please do you were asking me how long it took to write the book five years five years five years right right oh that is a labor of love my friend yeah and Singleton book was written during the pandemic so we were sort of on lockdown at the time you know when we were all quarantined a few years ago yeah so I couldn't write that in a public place I had to do that at home and that I found that a little bit more challenging different energy well it's a different energy it's a different you know you when you sit the worst thing for a writer is when you sit down and you're looking at a blank page yeah like oh my God I have to put words on that page what am I going to do whereas when I'm out in public and I see people Milling about you know a color or a scent or something might stimulate yeah something in my imagination and that sort of helps with that's just the way I work no it works for me too my wife and I wrote a book and released it uh a couple of years ago now two years we just did the two- year anniversary of it and I know exactly what you're talking about now but sometimes the Gateway is hard to access but once you access it and go through it um I mean I I love writing so much I I'm probably starting a substack actually I am starting a substack um I just don't know exactly when I'm because I just want to get that right that part when you are in the flow I want to get that out again and I'm certain you must feel that as well absolutely yeah yeah it's fun and uh whenever I work on a writing project to have a tendency to gain weight because after I get done a chapter I reward myself with a burger or a milkshake or something like that so after I finish after I finish an article or a book or something like that I have to go on a a diet and exercise program and take the uh the excess pounds off so um okay buying the book I don't have a copy of it I'm getting a copy of it what's the best way for me to get the copy of it uh can we get direct from you signed do you have any I'll send you one no no no no but how no but people who you know the dozens of people who have embraced the Letterman podcast uh who want to go down this this path um what's the best way to get one of these things I you could go on the bar Manor media website Manor media Manor media.com Y and look up the Mur briff and show the inside story and if you want the penny Singleton book that book if I might hold that up well hold them all up man is called Penny Singleton biography this is a fascinating lady she's one of the most extraordinary ladies that I've ever known in my life life she was the first woman president of an AFL CI CIO Union CIA Union I'm sorry excuse me and aside from playing Blondie you know she was a Trailblazer in her time so that's that's and she's also Jane Jetson by the way yeah oh right I've got a uh I've got a good friend who is getting that uh over the holidays and I'm gonna get it uh I'm gonna buy a copy for him as a as president you're GNA sign it and send it to him that is a really really cool that is very what's that which book is that the no the the penny one the penny one my friend of mine who's a he was a former Letterman writer um absolutely worships that era and and these types of things it's a perfect book for him so I'm gonna get that for him uh what else you got what's the third one oh well the third one is actually the first one that I wrote and that was behind the Crimson Cape it's actually a film by film study of the movies that George Reeves made prior to during and after he played Superman this book unfortunately is out of print you can't get this unless you get it on eBay but this is richly Illustrated and uh this is uh it's sort of like a different genre from you know what we're talking about here but that was that was the first book so George was first MV was second and Penny was the most recent Penny just came out um January of this year nice very cool um I'm just gonna give a shout out to my boy Rick sheckman he was a producer for Letterman for 32 years he passed away he's uh he was my consiliary for this show uh he at his memorial and he's a huge comic book fan and he and I gigantic comic book fans just from different eras and and so we would you know we connected really really really well and um about five months before he died as a DC comic book artist that uh I love and um back in those days when shecky was with L show DC's office was right across the street from the Ed Sullivan Theater so sheeky would go there and he would go to the Mad Magazine floor but also he would hang out with all of these amazing DC comic book uh where they made everything yeah and um and so he had all this stuff he collected stuff like you do like I do and and and you know showing me some of these things and then he just and but he like the old timey stuff and so a DC comic book artist is a friend of mine who lives happens to live in my city I'm like um hey John shout out to John Delaney do you uh did you like the George Reeves Superman I mean he's like oh yeah that's my favorite and I got a picture of a George Reeves Superman and shecky together really and sent it to him and and and and he you know we had a we had we had an amazing moment of friendship from that he absolutely loved the George Reed Superman he was so such a fan of it um where did you inherit that from where did you inherit that love from well that was one of the first shows I remember saying because I was born in 53 yeah which is the year the Superman went on the air and then it played you know until until he died in 59 so I think every kid so you were indoctrinated in Superman the way I was with Star Wars you were just it was exactly that was the Star Wars at the time every little boy you know put a towel around his shoulders and jumped you know tried to LEAP onto the bed or something like that to pretend uh simulate flying or something like that so Superman was our hero you know if you if you grew up at that time and all the girls wanted to be Lois Lane you know they had their notepads yep they wanted to be a girl reporter in the mold of of Lois Lane and Jack Larson and Noah Neil who played Jimmy Olsson and Lois Lane became very good friends of mine they were interviewed for that book oh that I just held up you know just held up and they both are gone now but they we were we were very close friends with you know what let's go down that path a little further um some of the people that you've met along the way that aren't with us anymore I mean I got a few of them already on my in my in my world um isn't it amazing how you can have this moment with these people where you get really kind of vulnerable you talk about some of this stuff and it's you know I my my men's mental Wellness podcast I just I did a a three-part series with my dad who's going through dementia right now and I mean I'm always gonna have that I'm always going to have that moment to kind of keep that alive who are some of the people as in your unique role here you have met that uh have touched you and Aren't with us anymore well I made a list recently of some of the personalities that I met over the course of you know from the time I was got interested in this and I have 975 names on the list so we'll be here until Christmas if you want W but I'll start with the names that would ring out to most people I was fortunate enough to meet Milton Burl a number of times oh my God and Sid Caesar and Danny Thomas I got to present an award to George Burns and these are all people that appeared on The Tonight Show with both Carson and and and M Griffin yeah you know people like that um I went around to all the autograph shows I went to book signings that's how I met MB in 1980 yeah and you know I he invited me to go on the variety Club ton with with him which I mentioned with Monty Hall he and Monty Hall were co-host I have a picture here if I could just show you please do my friend showel is welcome and this show oh my God and what happened was uh you notice something we're holding a uh a portrait a friend of mine had done this charcoal portrait of MB Griffin and so we went down to the studio where they were doing the variety Club telephone and we wanted to give it to them and my friend was too shy to meet MV Griffin he couldn't handle meeting somebody of that stature so when MV looked at that picture he went he said you got to give this to me on the air he said you got to give it to me on the air and I said well Mr Griffin I don't think he said don't think he said just do it and he walked away he's justy I'm being shoved down on stage in front of 1500 people scared the death I mean I couldn't I was like Ralph Tron I was like H the grin on your face it's plastered but I I would I managed to bite on a bullet and get through it so when I saw show the picture again show the picture again that thing is just great look at this this is my favorite picture of them because it's it's a candid picture I'll try to hold it so it doesn't shine look at that no it's it looks great oh my God right you you could tell he's he's joyous in that picture and uh you know these are experiences that you have and when I went to work uh the following Monday morning that was over the weekend it was good uh water cooler conversation oh yeah right we don't get to do cool stuff like that anymore you know the world is so the world is so different now well it is it is um but at the same time I'm I'm having the same experiences in the Letterman world right now it's just with today's times like you know um you know going to some of these functions and things like that it's it's an amazing thing uh I also want you to talk about the Johnny Carson Story that you have which one I wanted you to say that well I went which one I'll start with the first one I want and I went out there and then people said to me you'll never meet him he's very very guarded he's very very private he doesn't talk to people doesn't like being approached by people you know he's he's somewhat aloof he's almost Sullen you know at times if you but uh I went to The Tonight Show and I saw the first broadcast on a Monday that was at a time when the show was taped and then played on the air the following day there was a one day delay yes before you know this this is this is 73 yeah and he was not in a good mood that night I remember at the end of the show the audience applauded and he kind of sneered and he walked off and he didn't but two days after that he was in a jovial mood he was really really in a great mood and he came up and he played stumped the band and I didn't talk I didn't sing I mean I could barely talk little on sing on National Television that wasn't going to be my thing but he said to me during the commercial break he said are you going to sing with this lady and I said no she's she's gonna sing so she sang a song called three babes in the woods and you know it went over she was she was very very nervous and she said oh Johnny I don't think I could do it and he said take three deep breaths he just take three deep breaths so she did it and then she took the microphone away from him and she went to town with it and Johnny said there he said my God he said for somebody who didn't want to sing he said you just cut an album so when it was over he you know he interviewed about three or four different people that night and we were right in the front uh I asked him for an autograph and he completely walked past me and I remember the lady saying to me she said don't feel bad she said he can't sign an autograph for you because there 500 people here you know he'll be he'll be you know bombarded with autograph requests yeah but when he got back to the stage he pointed to somebody and he said see him after the show and to make a long story short he sent the autograph we they kept us waiting in the studio for about an hour after the taping yeah in an empty Studio which they would never do today they would never leave people alone yeah in a studio unattended like that but this guy came back with an envelope and in it was a nice signed portrait inscribed to me by Johnny Carson well there was a guy in Philadelphia who was a restaurant tour whose name happened to be Steve and he wanted to borrow this picture to put up in his restaurant he said let's put this up on the wall he said because people will think Johnny Carson ate here yeah I let him do it and when the restaurant closed several years later I went back to reclaim the picture and it was gone so I wrote Johnny wrote Johnny a letter and he was nice enough to send me a replacement I still have the envelope that it came in yeah I'm that way too yeah keep the envelope yep that that night uh you know the second the second taping I saw which was the same week uh he was in a great mood that night and I remember at the end of the show Bob newart was the lead guest and when the when the audience was filing out yeah the guests that I remember the guests that night were uh The Pointer Sisters Ronald J Fields the grandson of WC Fields Larry Kurt who was a hot singer at the time and Bob newart was the lead guest good Lord so when everybody was leaving Johnny remained on the set and he was talking with Bob newart and whatever he was telling Bob newart I couldn't hear because was too far away right Bob newart was cracking up and Johnny was very very animated you could tell he was really into he was really in a good mood this night which is probably why I got the autograph and uh you know and then I saw him many years later in 1991 on the parking lot at the Beverly Garland hotel in our I love this story I love this story yeah I was I was walking towards the um the end of the parking lot and I saw there a little red Jaguar coming towards me and for some reason or another I didn't get out of the way I should have but I didn't and when I finally did and he was practically right up near me he never honked he never said move your butt get out of the way you know he was right and he drove past me went oh my God I said it's Johnny Carson good God we know am I in the is this a Twilight Zone episode what so I went in to the hotel and I said to the desk clerk I said I just saw Johnny Carson in the parking lot what is he doing in North Hollywood in the middle of of the middle of the afternoon this was June of 1991 now I'm not sure I think I I think it might have had something to do with the fact that his son had just died a week a week earlier this is June of 91 yeah so the guy the desk clerk said me he said no he said he's been seen here a few times nobody nobody knew why but there there he was the interesting thing was later that when Johnny died in ' 05 2005 I was sitting in the restaurant of that hotel telling this very story and then over the PA system guess what we heard no The Tonight Show Theme yeah and I said to our wait I said what is that I said what why are he said oh that's The Tonight Show Theme I said I know what it is you know why in God's name are we hearing it but it came on just as I was telling this story of this parking lot encounter with him and that was 91 that was the last time I saw him because the the following year uh he he retired and then uh I think he did his last appearance with Letterman that was what 93 93 or 94 the California trip in 93 I believe is that the one where he came out and he didn't talk yeah that's the one yeah yeah yeah and and there's a there's a few different stories floating around of he had laryngitis yeah and there are some I've actually even heard it where um oh that's the that's the story Johnny was overcome with emotion that's right I think it was the lad and I oh I like to think it was the ladder man like I I do listen um any insights as to mv's reaction when Carson passed I mean near the end I mean yachts and and I mean one of his last things that ever did on on Letterman was the yacht thing um do do we know how you know there's a there's a record of it because the night that Johnny passed away that was in January of 2005 yeah uh um Larry King did a special tribute to Johnny Carson on CNN and MB was on it so was theck CIT right okay so we got to throw that on the watch list I don't remember if I've seen that that's that's a very important that's that's okay yeah and Carson and Griffin were they were they were friends at that point you know they had uh they had become good friends you know they were having dinner together and socializing going on you know they had been on each other's shows yeah and they had nothing but nice things to and of course murv had nothing but nice things to say about U Carson you know have you read the zi book yet no I have that Strang you should mention that I got a notice today in my email box it's due on Monday cool so I'm very much looking forward to the Z book it's a shame that he he passed away before he was able to U bring it to F to completion you know it is but I look at it I'm looking at it a little bit differently because this is like the ultimate a phenomenal writer don't get me wrong but but the ultimate Fanboy who also happens to be a phenomenal writer and and and the idea to me I'm looking at it going okay so this guy writing a book it's going to be different and it was the tone was um I just I really really liked it but then throw in the fact that uh Thomas had to come in and um and and and finish it for him and and kind of break the break the fourth wall kind of a thing almost a little bit in it and and that adds a dynamic to it that makes it unique so so that's my that's kind of my without spoilers I'll spoil one something little bit you probably uh know this already but it um in the book it talks about how Johnny Carson developed an email relationship with Jack par kind of right up to the end and Jack was Jack par or was David lman no no no no Carson and Letterman always yeah Carson Letterman has talked about his appearance on on Johnny's yacht and then for for a nice night up and down the Hudson um but I was more thinking that um it's fascinating to me that near the end of both of their lives that Jack par and Johnny Carson were corresponding via email that just kind of made me feel kind of good there well you know they had mellowed up by that point you know now you go back to 1963 right after Johnny had taken over the show for a couple of months yeah par and Carson didn't have nice things to say about each other yes par did make he made the one coaching comment he said well he said I go to bed early he said but what little I've scene I liked yeah but here's the thing in the 80s here's another crossover Jack par did three appearances on The Tonight Show with Johnny Yes in the 80s you know and uh I think that speaks volumes absolutely you know of of their I met Jack par one time I I didn't actually meet him I was at 21 in New York and I was there with with a lady who was an actress who was a good friend of mine and over a few tables over was uh Arlene doll yeah Miriam par jack par and somebody else I can't remember who it was and at one point I had to go to the men's room as we were leaving and as I was walking into the men's room Jack par was walking out and I said oh Mr par I said I enjoyed your latest book very much it was called um something this something it had saber in the title uh that feels like it's the perfect thing to say to Jack par and then he said and then he he patted me on the back he goes well he said you'll like my next one even better and the next one was called PS Jack bar which ultimately I I bought I was able to get a oh don't bend my saber or something like that it has had the word saber in the title okay it was a much earlier but he he wrote he was he was a prolific author he wrote a lot of books and it's important to remember that when he left the Tonight Show Jack par did a prime time show on NBC on Friday nights the jackp program yeah and then later in 73 he was opposite Johnny most people forget the jackp and Johnny Carson were actually opposite each other at one point yeah there was a program called Jack par tonight on AB which was produced by Bob Shanks who was M's producer because Bob Shanks had become the head of uh ABC late night programming at that point but that was very very shortlived but that was the fir that was that show became famous for giving America the first glimpse of um a young Freddy Prince he was on the par show he was on the par show before he went on the Carson Show and of course when he went on the Carson show that was when it happened yeah you know that's it's like you uh okay so I'm gonna got to say this uh number one um you need to have a podcast and I'm I'm sorry like I'll take you you can come on this show as much as you want because I know we can do this forever but you have like like seriously like the great Randi in you like I'm saying you would be a you have a a phenomenal um and I'm going to M I'm going to mind this as much as humanly possible uh you know you have a phenomenal phenomenal um width and breadth of experience it's unbelievable so you should have a show I'm happy to hear that because I talk about this stuff all the time and my family is Bored to tears with they couldn't care less it's like who cares my wife my wife made me start start this show so she could get away from that a little bit get away yes we're gonna do one other Carson thing here um you blew me away with something that you told me that you have showand tell for this is something that I okay so remember we talked about Don Giller yes I checked with him okay am I gonna bury the lead I have always wondered about the origin of Dave's double eraser pencil which I am so proud to have and I don't just throw out there that I have this to people it came up in conversation today because I was asking Steve about some of the things he was going to bring and he blew me away with one of the answers and um I don't know if this is out there or not but if I didn't know it uh clearly there's a lot of people who wouldn't know it so right can you please show me the item that you had here is one of the I don't know if I'll bring it as close as I can so you see I you got to pull it back you gotta pull it back for maximum effect so Tonight Show start keep it going as you can see as you can see there is an eraser on each end and that is because Johnny was a a drummer he was a frustrated drummer and he would sit there and he would tap these pencils while the band was playing you know during the commercial breaks and he would throw them at his producer Freddy DOR and uh so I got one of these this is one of the iconic Tonight Show pencils and it says on here The Tonight Show star in Johnny Carson prior to that mine says the Late Show The Late Show he he had uh NBC pencils which were red and they say National Broadcasting Company CBS pencils that are gray and there's a gray eye on there right I happened to be at at Tonight Show one time with a friend of mine who worked at NBC and uh the prop man was there and he had a box of these and I asked him I said would I be able to have a couple of those and he said oh help yourself so I grabbed I dug in and I took a handful of them and I gave a lot of them away these are the only two that I have left now these did come from NBC Burbank this this was given to me and I'm sorry to say that I don't remember who gave it to me but this is one of the Holy I call it one of the Holy that is I I don't say this very often but I have hold on hold on hold on seriously Steve I I don't say this very often but I have pencil Envy I do man that is incredible that you have that and that also solves a bit of a mystery now the mug let's talk about the mug the mug uh again this did not come from Johnny's desk yeah but it was made from the same mold that Johnny's was it came from you know the same mug shop and on the back it says you can see it says Johnny fantastic now this was the early picture yep in fact this is the shot that he autographed for me that night in 7 oh my God you're killing me it was that same shot that got stolen that was his publicity picture at that time now towards the end of his run he updated the picture yeah to this to this one yep and you got them both of course both right and they both say Johnny on the back and this is um Johnny's first TV Guide oh man 19 this is jod his wife his first wife Jodie the date is um September what were you doing in 1954 you remember what you were doing in 1954 I was probably cry I was probably crying in my CRI uh yeah I mean he was on he was on over the years he was on the cor of TV Guide many many many many times absolutely but that you never forget your first and then there's one with there's one when mer was a big hit on The Tonight Show in the summer of 62 he was on the cover of a lot of magazines wow W this is this is Young MB Griffin yep at the dawn of his uh talk show career so hey um you know what we haven't gotten to yet and we have to we cannot have this first of what I'm C certain is going to be many uh conversations um and I'm grateful for it but we got to talk about comedians I mean oh sure I mean you know we can't not because Johnny gets um you know there's the there's something called the Carson bump but there was also a a griffin bump and and and I mean um one of the things that I Marvel at the when there's pride in his television career the pride of discovering new Talent some of the some of the talent you know that he has discovered uh Woody Woody Allen I mean you know and I mean talked about this Jack Rollins documentary that we're doing was you know Woody's manager um you know who's also Dave's manager right and so there's lot so many connection here U wood but MV Griffin you know kind of broke Woody in in in many ways and George Carlin oh go ahead yeah yeah please M was crazy about he loved Woody Allen and I think he had him I think he had him on when M was still filling in on The Tonight Show when par was still hosting Y and that didn't go over too well with par but then during the summer during that interim period after par left MV had Woody Allen on a lot and then he was also he also had Woody Allen on his NBC show yeah and MV had Woody Allen on his very first CBS show in 69 y Woody Allen was the Le was the lead guest he had just released released uh his film Take the Money and Run yeah and so the guests were Woody Allen mom's May um not the on war Leslie Uggams and Ted Ted senson who was President Kennedy's uh Speech writer and Mom's mably mom's mayy was the denm mother of the murf Griffin show in the 1960s so that was but he he thought enough of Woody Allen to have him on as his lead guest on his CBS opener in August of 69 so but you know a lot you talk about the Carson bump and all that a lot of people associate Jerry Seinfeld was making his appearance his debut with Johnny but it actually happened on MV exct America didn't see it because MV was delayed for a couple of weeks because MV was syndicated whereas Carson show went on the same night that it aired but there's another one that history has forgotten about murv Griffin was the first person to put Tiny Tim on the air now that happened in 1967 and you know tiny tin came out and you know with the long hair and the high falet of voice and all that Mur didn't know what to make of it and it bombed it didn't it didn't go anywhere but then Tiny Tim went on laughing in 68 and became something of a phenomenon then he went on The Tonight Show with Carson and he was a big SM with Johnny and then ultimately the following year December of 69 is when he got married on The Tonight Show and that that was the highest rated tonight show up till that time that was December 17th 1969 I was in high school at the time so two years earlier he's bombing on MV Griffin and then two years later he's that is he's a national that's a crazy yeah that's a that's a fad of fads that's crazy but Mur had murf had a lot of people that so so I'm gonna go down the list Richard prior Richard prior uh Lily Tomlin started with M oh my God okay so so Richard Richard prior like like you think about that like what many still refer to as the god oh by the way the Godfather of Comedy uh but but I I have an aside uh is MV Griffin The Godfather of syndication I feel like no no no not not really no you know he's he like he liked to say that uh you know that he um was sort of like the Godfather of syndication but there were always syndicated shows prior to to uh Mur Griffin the thing is I think he was probably one of the first syndicated talk shows but don't forget as I mentioned Steve Allen had a syndicated talk show and so did Regis philin but the run like nobody touches the run in syndication right no syic syndication up to a certain point in TV involved um reruns of old Network show sure yeah Superman was a syndicated show Absolutely so was Highway Patrol so was whirly Birds there were a lot of syndicated shows yeah shows that you know on a national level but they were syndicated to individual stations where they could run them in whatever time uh frame whatever time slot best suited their Market but um MB was a big hit in syndication but I don't think he was he was an innovator in that he was an innovator in bringing the theme show into now he was not the again he was not the first Steve Allen did theme shows yeah on his version of tonight but Johnny Carson was the one who elevated it see each host who came along the way elevated they they added a little bit something more to the genre you know Steve Allen was very very you know frantic very very ad liid you know nothing was scripted Jack Parr uh formulized it a little bit more he added the sofa you know the Davenport next to the desk which later became you know he he was the one who popularized that format and then Johnny picked it up from there but um you know each host brought something new to it and then if I could add that David Letterman brought brought in if my opinion is uh I don't know whatever it is rock and roll that was the element that Letterman added you know like Carson um you know his that was rock and roll I think was one of the major differences that attitude and also you know popularizing uh the music there that that wouldn't play on Carson right and that was something that he added to it arcenio of course that's an obvious one like like but like even guys like Gary Shandling who is an honor member of the club you know he had his own oh absolutely was Gary Gary was featured on MV I believe he was yeah I believe he was I think you know there was a great Frost over anybody who was on Johnny was on MV and and vice you mentioned earlier today we were talking you mentioned Charles Groen he was one of my favorite he was one of my favorite Tonight Show guests oh absolutely and no that cat and mouse that Rapport that he had with Carson was just it was it was it was classic have you seen David Letterman and Charles groden because Letterman continued it with him did he really no I haven't seen Don Giller has one of those compilations he's got a Charles groden compilation and it is like if you have an afternoon where you're just trying to you know just want to you know immerse yourself that is a is a phenomenal compilation watching the evolution of groden because it includes him getting his own Show on MSNBC because Letterman P Snyder and gets them for late late and so any anyway yeah there's another top Ms comedian who made the rounds of all the shows was rodie Dangerfield of course absolutely I mean my god the guy is the guy is phenomenal he and he was on Joey Bishop he was on murv he was on Carson yeah you know I always Don Rickles Buddy Hackett uh Rodney Dangerfield Charles Roden those you to a lesser extent I would say Robert Blake a little bit you know not quite up to that level but there were certain guests you know that you didn't want to miss uh you know whenever they were on but uh it's sad that you know but fortunately they they saved a lot of these shows and we could enjoy them over and over again they're gonna yeah well I'm gonna I'm gonna be doing some absolutely and and and I'm gonna be doing a big MV Deep dive after this I'm excited I'm really excited to do it um oh I was going to ask if he had contact with yeah Franks and atra did did um MV and Frank cross paths very often I to the best of my knowledge Frank sinatro was never on the MV Griffin Show yeah you know I I don't have the data in front of me but I can't recall ever seeing him and I don't think you know it certainly would have been mentioned yeah in one of mb's books if he had yeah yeah yeah because Sinatra even Sinatra even filled in for Johnny in the 60s totally yeah right and then you know he had him on and then he had him on again I think um the final time would have been November of 70 in fact November of 1976 they just reran that episode on the antenna TV rerun that they show of course but no I I I know that I know that MB and Frank knew each other and MB spoke highly of them but I don't think that that a another person that MB never had on was Jackie Gleason oh interesting and I I suspect I suspect that the reason for that was because there was a bit of a rivalry between Mike Douglas and M Griffin right and and Jackie gon was very very close friends with with Mike Douglas so maybe he maybe maybe he felt he was being you know disloyal to uh to Mike Douglas yeah but interesting you know I grew up in Philadelphia where Mike Douglas taped his shows I worked about two blocks away from his Studio at the fifth and Market studio in Center City Philadelphia I'm sorry to tell you that I never saw one single Mike Douglas show my mother my mother and my grandmother adored Mike Douglas and went to a lot of his shows I never saw one show but I saw I saw six or seven shows with Johnny I saw a whole ton of shows with MV don't you love irony like that's that's so ironic well I figured that was saying Mike Douglas that was too easy he was right down the street but to see Johnny Carson or M Griffin was more of a challenge yeah because that involved getting on a plane and going uh to California and as soon as I was old enough you know I did just that you know George Carlin's another one that he broke and and and and I think about these people that just the ones that we just mentioned right there that he broke um he broke voices of their generation yeah PR was a voice of his generation yeah Carlin was a voice of his generation hell Woody Allen a voice of his generation you know what I'm saying like like and and these are people that he broke um you know people talk about Johnny breaking comedians like look at what MV Griffin did to break comedians yeah exactly he liked it when he was able to give people and not only that he had a lot of First Rate singers you know like mentioned Whit Whitney Houston and Leslie and people like that was on and then there were a lot of lot of young up-and-comers like um Gilbert price was a singer that he had on a lot and reny santon was a young Talent uh the guy who sang I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus I think was a Jimmy Boyd I think that was he was on murve a lot in the 60s and early 70s I love that you I just have to note this just because this is the Letterman podcast and some of us go obscurely deep there's a David Letterman story that involves Leslie Uggams and and uh just automa poetically Uggams is funny to me just I just if I'm gonna open for somebody Leslie Uggams is a good person to open for just it's just funny so there's a David Letterman Leslie ugam story and I just find it funny that that name has popped up in this episode twice so anyway so other other anyway I just wanted to note that so other singers though uh they're the ones that come to mind I'm sure he had Whitney Houston I mean my God right you know you oh there's there is another one when MV filled in for par that night in January of 62 he introduced a hot young singer and her name was artha Franklin oh God that's right that's right how can you forget that one the Godmother of soul I mean right my word um a billionaire before people even knew what billionaires were you know he was that guy and and and like he was as Fierce of a of a of a force in television with the Instinct of a of a you know you know a guide Hunter just in business same thing same thing he was a very he was a very smart man and he he took advice from people well you know oh that's a he had he had a really good team of people behind him and uh you know he he listened well he took advice well unlike a lot of people in Show Business who like to do things their way you know and they wind up shooting themselves in the foot so to speak but mer was very very smart very very astute businessman you know and uh you know God love them I mean you know again they don't make them like him anymore I you know I tried to make my I I tried not when I did my book I tried very hard not to Fawn to you had mentioned the Fanboy yeah aspect of the zi B and I tried very hard to uh avoid that yep and I I think if you read it you know you'll see that I was objective and I like MV a lot I mean you know I spoke to some of his people and said you know he could be difficult he could be temperamental he didn't like it when things went wrong and he would blame other people and one of his guys uh his head talent talent coordinator um Don Kane told me he said finally I had to tell him he said murf he said the problem is you and every in the room was like whoa you but you know he had to tell him but like you said he was a good student he heard that and he he took it well yeah exactly he took it well right because there you know I I don't I won't name names but there were some people who didn't want to go on that show there were some people who didn't want to go on with Johnny yep you know and uh there's a reason for that and Dave had him too they all I think they all do I think they all do but it would have been great to see Frank sinatro on H the M Griffin show because murf had a tremendous Orchestra you know Mort had a 16 piece band as Johnny did you know with with Doc senson and it would have been wonderful to have Frank uh perform at the Little Theater in New York or on CBS out in Hol uh the Little Theater New York uh and there we go thank you right said it you spike it you're going to earlier earlier today there's a connection between Carson and Griffin with that theater because Johnny did trust at at a little theater from 57 to 62 yeah and then uh legitimate plays the people who love M Griffin with the sherts because he insisted on doing his show in a theater he he didn't like he did not like the starkness of a TV studio he liked the intimacy of a of a theater so the people who loved MB were the sherts yeah because he rented um The Little Theater from them and then he went around the corner when he went to CBS and he taped out of the the court theater which is now I think James Erol Jones I think that has changed names is that's on 48th Street in New York but right next door to uh the little theater is Sardis which is my favorite restaurant and all these guys after the taping they would go in there and they would hit the bar yeah you know and they would party they would have these after and sometimes they would get lit before the show yeah I think Johnny and Ned McMahon would go to Sardis and have a few before taping uh you know who I gotta go there next time in New York I gotta go there there next week yeah I'll be well you know what next time I'm in New York you're going to meet me there we'll eat there that'll be good oh you would love it they have great lasagna oh man I'm I'm down for that yeah Sardis is and of course iconic like they gave away yeah I gotta mention if you go to Sardis they have a display of books theatrical books and my M Griffin book is on the Shelf there oh that's fantastic yeah I'm I'm very honored and when I whenever I go there I'm like a little boy I say that's my book that's up on the B shelf they're probably want to take it down now since I mentioned it oh it's so great it's so great um I've got okay I've got notes that I wanted to get to I just want to make sure that we've got to all of them okay original Late Night War breaking Comics prior Woody Carlin failure all the shows erased oh man the the walk-on with Brook Shields on Letterman did you uh did you catch that one of his first appearances on Late Night with David Letterman uh I believe she was 17-year-old Brook Shields came out uh during their appearance and and and she's like America's sweetheart slash you know National sensation kind of a thing right and she's out there with MV Griffin and uh oh yeah yes I and I think I think Christopher Atkins was on the same show yeah I think that was 1980 when they were doing blue when they had done the film Blue Lagoon uh yeah I think that's exactly right I do remember yes um there was a joke oh hey okay I don't know if this is serious or not okay a MV made a joke something about on his Tombstone um after these I will not be coming back something was that the quote something like that is is it actually on there that's true for many years he said on my I want my epap to be on it'll be on my Tombstone I will not be right back after this message and if you go to the cemetery he's not in Forever Hollywood Cemetery I think he's in I've never been there but I've seen it it does say that it does say Mur Griffin and it's got dates 1925 to 2007 and it says underneath that I will not be right back after this message it's true how tacky would it be to get your picture taken beside that not tacky at all I know people who have done it I have a friend who came up to me one day he said oh he said Steve I'm like you I got my picture taken with MV I said really I said let's see it and he shows me this picture of him standing in front of merves gravestone I said well I got him when he was alive now people do that all the time they pose with their favorite they do it in front of Marilyn monrose grave they do it at Charlie chaplain's grave over in Switzerland they do it with Clark Abel um um Rudolph Valentino all the great iconic Stars yeah their fans go there and they they take photographs in front of the um the Crypt if it's a musim or the you know the grave if they're inter and what what city is it it's in La it's in La okay okay right um I was uh in uh California in May to go see Dave and and I just had a good trip down there I met with Robert Morton and had a really really Letterman Centric um trip it was awesome and I would constantly be cutting across whether I was going to Kimmel going to see Letterman one of the two times I went and saw him or whatever and I'd be walking down Hollywood Boulevard and I probably took five pictures of mes the star on Vine Street yeah yeah on Vine yes yes that's did you know that did you know that Johnny Carson star ironically is a few feet away from the Hollywood Palace Theater where MV taped his show from 72 to 76 if if you go on Vine Street across the street from the Capitol Records building y a a few feet down uh is Johnny Carson's star on Bine Street and it's I always thought it was ironic that that star was not far away from uh mer Griffin's home his home base of the Hollywood Palace because when he went back to syndicate for Metro media he taped at the Hollywood Palace Theater which had been Jerry Lewis's home when Jerry Lewis did his talk show it was from the Hollywood Palace so that place that theater goes back to 1927 that's where Richard Nixon did his famous Checker speech Lucille Lucille B did her famous radio show my favorite husband with Rich Denning from there Ralph Edwards did uh this is your life it's a very famous facility good Lord right I love I love that stuff I again I think I think I've mentioned this I don't believe in coincidences I flat out don't no I don't I don't either right it certainly wasn't a coincidence um that you and I were to meet hey uh special thanks to Rob Kates for setting up this intro you were exactly right brother we are just peas and a pod um before we finish up here uh on your first appearance on the Letterman podcast um let's put the book up again and say the best way to get it ah Griffin the inside story is available from um bare Manor media bar Manor media.com or you could get it quicker if you order it from Amazon um is there a way to get it signed you have to mail it to me okay well I'll be happy I'll be honored to sign it for uh I'm constantly going to the post office with a shopping cart of books that I mail back and then people say oh I got the envelope but there was no book inside it and then I have to I have to I've lost a fortune recently Place Books because the post office oh my gosh you know they uh they um e either it goes through a conveyor belt and the book falls out and the envelope gets delivered and there's no book inside but I'll be happy to sign it for anybody they could email me and and uh work it out that way but the best way to get it is either through bare Miner media.com or through Amazon I think I think the penny Singleton book is also available from um uh Barnes and cool yeah our Books & Noble too yeah couple of other platforms that's available on so uh no I would appreciate it I'd be honor I'm I'm always happy to sign a book for anybody oh that's that's fantastic I really appreciate this um I'm gonna do a uh a really quick out stay on the line here I'm gonna do a real quick outro um and I'll be right back and we'll say our goodbye privately uh Steve you're fantastic thank you so much foring letter podcast I hope next time you have me on with Rob so we could have a uh oh yeah oh that episode's going to write itself I'm just going to make the popcorn listen to you two go um this is amazing I appreciate you very much uh just stick here and I'll I'll be right back uh ni oh of course man of course my friend uh that's why that's it that's why we do the show and I mean I said it this show was living proof as to why we do the show it explicates that term and explains it puts it right in front of you very very simply and easily and and uh to understand this is exactly why we do the show we're so grateful for Steve uh for coming on here um I don't have the MV Griffin book I'm getting it I'm excited about the inside story and um just really really grateful for uh this show we got one sponsor one sponsor only with the Letterman podcast hellodd deli.com if uh Rupert still has merchandise you can get Leo with David Letterman t-shirts you can get Leo with d Letterman mugs and much more um this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chism coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night Bravo overcoat and Underpants