Friends Of The Show Volume I Part II

hi I'm Steve wer you have no idea who I am but watch the Mike chis show because no one knows who he is either welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chism okay we got part two of uh friends of the show part volume one part two that's what tonight's episode is yeah so it's uh um Steve Young Steve Wier uh former writers uh for Letterman and and all around just good guys uh TV historian Allison lips uh the official Warren Zeon um uh historian Adam um anger and um Daniel Daniel Darren Cox Daniel Cox the Alias no Darren Cox host of the irritable dad syndrome our very first guest and uh perhaps even our very first friend of the show other than our boy Shey over here uh this is I just it's just more of the same us shooting the bull lots of fun stuff stories come out um in this episode and I'm just really uh grateful for our friends of the show both who were part of the Letterman um production and uh the people who love it and enjoy um our all of our SLI there's a point here where we talk about the fact that we're all historians in our own way about different genres Steve being industrial Musical uh Steve Wier is a is is a historian when it comes to Comedy when it comes to to to film as well Allison actually is a TV historian uh Darren works for antenna TV where where where where they've basically the entire network is a history of Television where he writes you know and does all these promos for the these old shows and then um you know of course Adam being the official Warren zon historian very very cool cast of characters in The Growing Friends of the show of Letterman podcast please enjoy this episode yeah I mean Steve you've got enough both Steves you've got enough that I believe you both would uh if if it suited you having a substack channel um actually you know what all of us here probably could have a substack channel where where a lot of fun stuff would be released and I mean that would be perfect for it the most interesting thing I probably have along the lines what you would be interested and I think I've told you I have this in one time we were doing the show was before computers when I was on the show when we had we put we had an IBM select to type everything on so I would bring all our stuff home and I have a lot of the original submissions Pages like about pretty big stack of them so it's all not only the jokes that got on the air but all the ones that didn't so that you know I don't know what anyone would want that but I've got five and 3/4 inch floppy discs from the early 90s all stuff I don't know how you even transfer that somebody somewhere knows I don't even no I I wanted to ask Steve and Steve I know you guys have written things that you were proud of that weren't that were passed that weren't used on the show and for you know doing that for years did you save things or did you just throw them away I know no I kept everything I kept everything that I could that I could I don't remember anymore if I've got everything but I've got a lot uh you in a rejected file and a used file or no no because they were all on the same page in those days we' turn in the thing and then Marl would like Circle something she liked and that would go into to the script and we get the pages back I have the weirdest one I have and I found it on the floor one day I said not to come back I found because she would when we did the the viewer mail um she would give the page on usually we type but since we had these these questions on individual Xerox paper we would sometimes handw write the jokes on the back and one day long after like late late the time I was there I found somewhere and that wouldn't come back to us because she would keep that and transfer it to a script I pick up piece of paper on the corner and it's my handwritten thing uh um the question is is the window made of real glass on the back but Dave picks up the thing and throws it through the window and I found that and that I definitely have I definitely kept that nice so so yeah I kept a lot I I Casas I would go back on some other products and see if there's anything I could steal that from the old stuff that didn't hadn't been aired right because you know it's still good yeah intellectual property of CBS though well that let them no it's actually my day was Carson Carson you're good and they have no idea what was produced under your oses no they don't but I will say Steve might be interested in this story because it's a really example of people's writers minds work the way they work period okay and we were doing stuff when I was working on the Disney show they they actually likeed us to Parody Disney shows and movies because they thought that made them hip so I had this idea for like a new version of Herby the you know the Love Bug which was the car and in my version he would be recycled and come back as Herby the love can of cream and mushroom soup and we built the trailer around that now years after we produced that I'm going through some of my old Letterman stuff and there's a m Museum of Hollywood page and so help me there is the line uh Herby the love can recycled and the prop it would have been a prop it's just the prop as as Herby the love cream of mushroom soup and I had no memory of it at all besides it's written the same joke twice you had written same joke twice yeah I had written the same joke it was my joke and I forgotten I'd written it and when I was we were we got the idea when they want us to do Parody Disney stuff my mind immediately went there we it turned into a trailer which was fun I mean we had more fun than we would have had with on letter but I had no memory of having written it before down to the exact same detail of the kind of can of can actually was different it was PE soup I think in the first one that's the only difference everything else is word for word the recycling word for word now is pea soup funnier than cream of mushroom soup I don't know but here's the can I saved the prop nice there's the prop that's that's Forward Thinking by the soup people to say you know this metallic substance was once a car maybe tribute to that in our here's the weird thing about working with Disney okay so we we pitched this in and they said we love it we only want to change one thing because because look we still do Herby movies you can't say it was recycled I said well that's the joke that's the that's the whole setup they said no just just go say it he came back as as the SL can it doesn't make sense no you know what nobody has ever asked us about about it it went on without without the setup and nobody ever asked the question as if it were like perfectly normal so another you learn things all the damn time in this business the connective tissue The Logical connections that made it worth pitching in the first place exactly set aside look here's a thing I guess yeah and they don't care the audience no one ever it's being presented on television I guess it's real okay I my we worked for a few years on the Disney channels new Micky Mouse cup that when all the big pop stars and stuff came out oh I think I was up for that at one point in the late 80s and didn't get it what a that's not possible if they hired us they would certainly have hired you first and we wouldn't still be back in New York which I was nobody I had no credits yet oh okay uh by the way everybody Adam has sent this through and we have uh unequivocal proof of the athletic prowess of mm Merl Marco of course oh yeah 34 to Warren Zant who was clearly taken by her uh her intelligence and wit he shot a mighty 43 so there we go inverted inverted uh inverted score from each other the reciprocal scores that's only the was the problem Oh that the FR Back N oh yeah so she kicked the crap out have the back nine I only have that 27 is and she 27's par she got a 34 so it's Merill got hot early with this hole in one on roll on hole four but by the by the ninth hole she was collapsing yeah the six there was was a brutal uh you know and then tried to bring it back but seven to bring things up they both both got seven though nine look at Warren zon he had a nine on uh I was always under the impression that uh if you get a six that's the that's what you top out at but I think that's Canadian rules perhaps on mini golf rather than American uh the mercy rule this is the first time I have ever talked about Warren Zeon playing miniature golf maybe the first anyone has and not Adam Adam's talked about it before oh there you go yeah witnessing history here folks 152 what is your overlap with Mike Chism in this whole uh shambling glory of the Letterman podcast here Mike how did that happen I don't know if I remember you reached out to me uh you reached out to me and said hey I'm the I'm the official Warren zon historian oh s promoting and then immediately we jumped on the phone and I believe the call lasted four hours ranging from everything from uh pro wrestling all the way to of course the the thing these things here and and and our day jobs how we got into because you know again Adam and I you know we we had this massive enthusiasm for this thing that we love and we decided to you know try and touch the third rail and lo and behold uh it actually worked and the power surged us into um you know at least for myself tangentially but for for Adam completely connected to this thing that he loves so much so we shared that Bond um and and I think there's a McKellan thing going on too Mike I think I was just trying to get in with someone at Letterman to see if I can get a hold of someone who give me the licensing for the zon tracks hey man I'll be your mu I was your mule for that I I I I threw a connection in there and we made it happen and and and it uh and so it it worked but at the same time uh you know it's like stepping in gum I just you stepped in me and and now you can't get rid of me so that's kind of how that went that's things begin with the practical sense of if I contact this person can they help my project and then one time out of 10 20 100 you find the the kindred soul you think oh I need to have this person in my life and they okay what lucky break that I even thought to pick up the phone or send that email because there off we go but uh all right so so people kind of find each other Steve you're kind of meant to find people like that right as as I'm sure we've all had glowing examples of that so that that's really cool and then uh Mr Wier and I of course because of this man because of Rick and um you know it's funny uh we're gonna have we're gonna have uh Al chelino on um so that'll be a lot of fun to have him on the C legendary cameraman and and uh uh he of course married um Barbara Sheen production assistant from the late night days and and uh so Alan and I know that we're gonna have a really really good talk Barbara definitely does not want to come on camera whatsoever but I'm going to try and get him to coax her to come on because I know she had an incredibly high regard for shecky and so I want to get Shey so shecky um after the night I asked if he would be my consiliary for this thing and you know it was a very serious conversation and I asked it in a very serious way it wasn't tongue and- cheek at all and and I was like you know I really okay I really want to do this Allan had died not too long previous and uh and I said to him I really want to do this but I need a conciliary and he said Mike I'll be your guy and the first batch of people that he sent me Steve Weiner was uh was in that group and so you know I I I I was connected they knew I needed early on but Rick was very enthusiastic about that and said yeah you need to talk to Steve for sure I also had an Alex Bennett connection with shecky at that point and Steve of course is involved in that relationship as well those that's how they that's how they met is through is through Steve so um he was one of the very first people and so that was that connection Darren I don't know how the hell that happened how did it how did how did we connect originally Darren we were in um we were on a thread on the alt fan Letterman on Facebook yes and I can't remember whose thread it was but we were both we're gonna say it's Don Giller so we can say that Don Giller is responsible for introducing us we're gonna say that that's what we're gonna say here no I don't need I don't need any more trouble from him um I'm I I'm almost past the point I think where he might have forgotten that he despises me um maybe unless he watches this tonight no we were on a thread and you had said something about starting up a podcast and I mentioned uh I have one I love doing it I I think you're going to love doing yours and and I you know I wish you all the luck and then you sent me a private message okay and started talking and then um and I feel kind of bad about this not really but I was was on on your show and um it was going well and I think you had already interviewed one maybe two other people and I thanked you I said stupidly jokingly hey thank you for making me your first guest yeah and then I think that's why yeah that was why that's why you did it so it would line up I shouldn't have been your first guest I'm a nobody no no no it was great it was great Steve I gotta ask you Steve Steve Wier yeah um for the first something I don't know it was almost 100 episodes of the Letterman podcast We spelled the word podcast wrong and it was spelled incorrectly in in different ways every episode okay so is this is this why you spelled your name uh the way you did Steve wer I mean here's the thing here's the thing I'm a decent enough writer I'm a craft typist I cannot I I was when they when we started working on the IBM selectric I thought nothing better had ever been invented on the planet they were hugely expensive in those days and they were built they were like tanks because you could erase right then I spent my entire Che You Youth when I was writing working with carable Bond paper and I was constantly you know scraping oh fix that I got to retype it over and over and over again and uh and I T this was when I first did the first of these with you I put this in and somebody pointed out to me and I've never changed it and now I'm starting to like it so I don't get around to Winder so how did you spell podcast I'm very curious yeah I'm curious too I I would I would misspell it differently every time so it's been everything from dropping the P it was oddcast it was the Letterman podcat uh the Letterman you know uh podcast um it was it was every variation of spelling the wrong the word wrong and then and then a gentleman um an accountant in in in Pennsylvania I believe is where he's from uh he messaged me because my plan the whole time was to do it until somebody noticed and and and and it had been noticed once or twice by a guest before we hit record and so I deemed that no did not count this was supposed to be someone reaching out and and that's what this gentleman did and um and and uh I think I sent him a I sent him I sent him a one of the rejection postcards I believe um as a as a gift for for for for discovering it but uh um yeah so I would spell it wrong and then as soon as it was discovered uh one of the people though who did see it spelled wrong uh to my horror because I wanted to interview this guy forever I wanted to have a conversation with Bill Carter and Bill Carter came on and it was the first impression the zoom came up or whatever and he's looking and he's like looking around at my backr and then he looks in the corner and you see him go you know he spelled podcast wrong right I'm like ah yeah yeah yeah thanks Bill appreciate that like I'm about to have this conversation with this giant in my in my world and uh that's the first thing that happened so that that uh you know I assured him he was the first person to to to to discover it and he he liked that so anyway I appreciate that is your name spelled correctly on the the screen right now is it m i k e c yes c i h o m yeah chol it's Scottish considered branching out from podcast to misspelling Letterman or your own name or did you think no it has to be in this little micro Eco system just podcast just the one word yeah it was variations just on the one word and uh I never Dev that limiting isn't that what limiting uh perhaps but I'm a very limited uh intelligence uh Talent any of that stuff so that sounds about right but it's good to have a project with parameters yeah that you within this zit Zone will play and we'll see what happens and the the universe is larger than we can contain in this tiny little project so that's okay we'll just look at that yeah that's one of my favorite qu questions for for a writer do you prefer to have a wide open field anything goes or do you prefer to have parameters that you can now write your way around and it gives you context that's a question I love to ask to ask writers and you know anyone's on the panel can comment if they like parameters give you someplace to go if you're stuck that's in some sense if if you're if you can do anything then what do you do how do you choose uh it's it's like it's like I don't have a preference particularly what I loved about the early days of Letterman shows we could do almost anything you know certainly when we were there the the my favorite segment was yourl for the same reason because we can go in any direction it could be a sketch it could be a line it could be a gag on the set uh that's fun but but you know the the story of what Barry sanord did for the show when it was from The Morning Show when he came the morning show was really smart was a the when the show first started and they did anything in any order and whatever and people were were kind of what is this and what Barry did we came says no no you can do anything but you've got to have it within a format you have First Act is going to be the monologue second act would be a comedy bit third is is an interview then then a comedy bit then another interview then a music act or another you know a shorter interview that that context putting it in that structure which I think mostly stayed certainly was staying while I was there I don't know how if it went to the end but then you could break it occasionally you could break it but if people knew Barry's thought was if people knew what they were seeing if they weren't lost didn't feel lost then you could play Within those areas forever and I think turned out to be right I think it made a big difference yeah and when you think things like that seem so Primal and eternal and somebody had to set that down as a plan it's it's like remembering oh what if what if there wasn't gravity or oxygen this is like the things we take for granted but uh like I remember learning about uh Jack par was kind of the template of I sit at a desk and there are chairs next to me and people come out and sit next to me and you think wasn't this handed down at about the same time as the Commandments and the stone tablets no it was 1961 or whatever and it like oh okay yeah that sort of makes sense and then you see it decades later and hasn't it always been that way well somebody had to somebody had to do it because what Steve Allen was doing is more of a variety show go from piano to something else and yeah Jack par and then uh and then we get to the Hal gurny connection so it all ties up you know how how gurnie directed Jack Park and uh you know that the the and and one thing I think I very obvious about daavid and you know this Mike is he really revered what we call broadcasters people who had that kind of relationship with the camera that kind of feeling he loved Jack Parr he loved Tom Snider he love you know Steve Allen he loved all those guys and you know he's very influenced by them and I think you know that I think Dave David to the best I mean you know I can't read him but I'm just this my feeling is that he wanted to do that and then then within that then he would could do other things but I think his template I mean I was shocked as get because I you know you never really got to know know him I don't know who did but I was shocked at how much he was hurt by not getting the Tonight Show I never I had not realized that that was what he wanted to be he wanted to be Johnny Carson on some level and I think he became David Letterman which is different and better I think personally I think um but he was not necessarily his first Dream I'm I this is pure conjecture based on what I've read that you've read the you know the bill Carter books and things like that I don't know this any of this stuff in firsthand knowled uh but that seems to be what that that was a real dream of his and and I guess all those people in that line that par Steve Allen you know uh Johnny Carson Tom Snider line that's the line he wanted to be a part part of I think I couldn't and ultimately he was yeah yeah and it didn't matter if it was the tonight's show or not he he was part of that line yeah absolutely was a part of the line I think the interesting thing was I I don't think he be would not admit this that he was not that great at the interviews when we started which is sort of the the Baseline of what those guys do yeah but boy did he get it yeah he just his curiosity sort of overtime develop into this blade where he could have a conversation that was sharp and went here and went there but I I'm far from an academic expert in any of this but for a few years I was teaching TV history at NYU and I went in and went went out but I had to catch up on so much stuff that I did not know anything about basically I was an idiot savant employed writing comedy for a show for a while but I taught um TV history at Rowan for a semester oh yeah yeah well I I'm glad for that experience because I learned so much not only about the lineage of late night like yeah I'd heard the names Jack par and Steve Allen I had no real idea what they were doing but all these people but Letterman was generationally the first one who had grown up watching television and he had ingested from age five onward this mass media in explosion of Television whether it was Howdy Duty or the Today show with the monkey running around or anything else and and all through his childhood adolescence teenage years into college Years he was a sponge absorbing every good idea every terrible idea every cliche every inanity and he was of exactly the right moment in history like like early SNL people say we have grown up in with this in our bloodstream now it is time with our fractured sensibility to spin it out backwards and upside down to America through whether you call it parody Or sardonic or or a satire or whatever he was he was the exact right Leading Edge to blow up everything that had happened in the last 30 years thank you for coming to my TED talk is that what when Letterman was growing up in Indiana they he and his mom watched shows that came out of Cincinnati and he loved watching this guy named Paul Dixon and if you have a moment go on YouTube look up Paul Dixon the chicken wedding is that the guy who threw hams to the audience or something because he told me about that once that that was a thread that he had gathered from somewhere in his childhood I don't remember him throwing hams but I know he like they had a whole episode where two Rubber Chickens got married okay and Dave just loved Paul Dixon yeah he told me about something I remember it was either Cincinnati or Cleveland so it was probably this one that had been a big influence on his uh what what Mike once called the wet cement of his unformed brain you crystallized my thoughts completely it served him well too because with the edict that his had to be different than the tonight's show you know you couldn't have a big Orchestra you had to have a different kind of band you couldn't have panel guests um you couldn't do a monologue which he kind of did um I think it served him well because heu told them they could not do X Y and Z they right yeah monog couldn't do a monog you have to do all these things differently contractually that's what we're going to tell you at the outset I think the great thing is with him having that that upbringing and all those different influences he was able to Pivot and even though he respected Johnny and wanted to be Johnny he could also be different than Johnny Johnny could never have done the sort of summertime fun variety hour or the Christmas variety hour right that came from your your young wide-eyed plastic mind getting all this stuff fed into you from the 60s and early 70s with the sort of sacaran sincerity of the the world of of variety shows and all that and and a cynical questioning mind like Mr Letterman's and many of his writers would say I'm not sure I believe any of this what am I gonna do with this how do I talk about this and then you suddenly are oh we have our own Anarchy anarchic late night TV show where we can finally talk about this combustible mixture of and sincerity and mystery that was the first 30 years of Television I I I don't really wish I had been born earlier but I think what a what a what an orchard of lwh hanging fruit those people of the Letterman era had to say look at all this stuff that's been just put out in the first wave of TV and now we're the second wave and we are going to invert it and explode it and twist it and turn it a different color what what a what a candy store it must have been and then you had Paul Schaefer to that because Paul Schaefer you know was the kind of guy who would watch every minute of the Jerry Louis telephone over and he you know he would he would record it and then he would watch it and he would take a lot of his the things he said today that those thing and they were off of the telephon or some other $1 more T $1 more right d he I mean it got to the point once but late in the first year Paul actually came into our offic so he knew that Carl and I were both into this kind of stuff too he said Hy guys you know I think I'm running out of things to say can you help me can you help me a little bit just help me a little bit and it was great fun we became for a few minutes we became Paul schaer's personal writers we were feeding him stuff and it was great because he he knew he loved that stuff too you know so and what I don't know what else that was about it I was the third third or fourth generation yep and I'd grown up with glimmers of this Letterman show as this bizarre thing and I half understand it and rarely watch it but yes I've watched TV all during my upbringing too but it's not the same TV that Dave Letterman watched when he was a kid and I don't think I've ever seen one minute of the Jerry Lewis ton I'm the charts wrong for half the references that Letterman and Paul Schaefer and you grew up with yet by 1990 that was okay right because we were new people we were talking to our peers right the people who were 24 in 1990 or whatever it was and they didn't care about uh the variety shows from 1962 or the Jerry Lewis thing they they had this glittering pile of junk fragments of their own TV World from the 70s and 80s and and and by that time Letterman was part of that landscape as well and it's so weird to think of how many meta folding in upon itself we'd gotten to by the time the show was mature and established and how many generations of people were were commenting on previous meta Generations all right I've had too much I do I do want to thank 15 years old thank you it's it's something I look forward to in life so thank you um Steve I love it was originally I believe it was Don Giller who who made this observance to me and I it just made so much sense and as Dave got older the writers at least an element of the writers would stay the same age as they originally were on the on the original show they would always be that young and so you get guys like that and then you go to the Next Generation the Grossman you know Jeremy Winer uh some of these different people who who who who came on board and felt the exact same way came on at their age with their sensibility at that point and and and yet but at the same time you still had the Jerry Mulligan who was still there you know you still had shecky who was still there like the sensibility of old film and things like that that would be inserted into the show as well and and um and and going back to the very beginning when it was you know Dave was one of the young guys but the same time he had Hal and he had you know Wendell and he had you know some of these other people that would had had had you know and so the the generational part of of of of the admiration or the tearing apart of Show Business was such a part of that show and I love that we talked about this um Allison I want to get there was there's one thing that I wanted to get you involved in a little bit with Steve Wier specifically because you're both encyclopedias when it comes to uh you know shows of the past shows that have been on things like that and again you said it P you said it exactly right Allison I love that you have the brain that you have in the age and and gender that you have I think it's delightful how you can go 12 rounds on some of these really old shows and and and talking and and you have these opinions about them even Canadian stuff like I'm like hey do you know what password is or not password um uh do you know what definition is you're like yeah that's a Canadian game show with the you know you know these things and so uh Kids in the Hall you can out Kids in the Hall me which is you know nuts yeah I'm working on a paper on Kids in the Hall yeah and I love that so that being said Steve is this Encyclopedia of things and so Alison I wanted to some shows that you have taken an interest in that are older shows that you have you know more than a passing knowledge of give give some examples of that and I'm curious if Ste if if anybody else here but specifically Steve had um reaction to to it okay uh Hogan's Heroes is probably one of my favorite shows I'm sorry what was it again Hogan's Hero oh God you said Mr Ed I remember Mr Ed and I remember Hogan hero yes from the first time na Mr my father kept telling me you know they're not the Nazis weren't all goofy like that you know know uh yeah I saw those and I said I remember Mr Ed and and uh you know I mean I I I was not around when they laid the coaxial cable but I you know I do remember some you know a lot of Television for that period but I was very little and I had weird taste too because I you know I could talk to Hal gurny about the Jack pars not Not Tonight Show because that was that was too early even for me but the his prime time show I used to watch but there weren't a lot of kids in my circle who are watching Jack par either particularly and I I said to Hal that I thought I thought thought I was the only kid junior high who knew who Alexander King was you know as like was like a freaking guest on that show nobody actually knew what he did for a living but he was like a wit the kind of guy that Jack jackp like to have on the show uh so I watched the kids shows but I also watched the grown-up shows too I just liked anything you know uh and and spending most of my childhood trying to talk my father into buying a color TV which he didn't want to do so you know and my father worked in television my father was a WR play worked in the 50s and he wrote for the Golden Age you know so-called golden age of Television he was a playwright and and um hello what are you holding up Mr uh and and and as my father said it wasn't a gold nature telis they just don't remember all the crap we put on um yeah that's exactly I've heard that as well like the uh Prestige dramas Playhouse 90 and right half theater and all that we look at all the stuff that's survived and we forget that 97% was not saved yeah what he said was it wasn't I mean the same shows they were the same Anthology shows but he said look we had to turn out a new play every week my father worked on a show called ma a theater which when F was on the air for one reason only it was NBC and they wanted to sell color televisions they had a RCA showroom across from NBC and there were no color shows on in daytime there were there's no color shows so they created the show called NBC mat Theater which were broadcasting color during the afternoon so people could go in this in the display stores and watch the show color TV and my father said we have to do five original plays a week say you know there's there's no way that stuff's all going to be good so most of it is lost and he was rather glad of that yeah yeah impossible forever were okay with like the Dumont Network their tapes were dumped in New York Harbor when people yeah yeah and probably a few gems were lost but probably 90 something perent was okay we're fine with losing that yeah I I worked for Joe Kates the producer Joe Kates on one of his last things he'd gone back he'd been a he'd been a a stage manager uh at the Dumont Network so he worked with Jackie Lisa when he was first starting uh and uh so and I think again Carl and I were like the only people who want to talk to about that stuff you know we would we would go to lunch with Joe and he' say h what was Eddie caner like you know you know he just loved talking about it and he was the old school producer every story he told about any celebrity was girls there were just all you know there and and bless me OB say I'm going to get away with saying this or not but most of his stories Joe's stories were yeah I stri Lucille Ball yeah I stri Ginger those kind of stories uh but we just love that stuff you know right I have a question for anyone with Canadian TV knowledge uh fellow writer Tim long and this is 25 years ago mentioned a show that he knew when he was a kid called bumper stumpers does this ring a bell yes uh bumper stumpers was I believe was CTV sort of a cryptic almost uh like a a puzzle on a on a license plate that you had to figure out what the letters were trying to say does that ring a bell yeah it's uh it's it's like yeah like when somebody has acronyms on their license plate or whatever what does it stand for yeah yeah yeah yeah bumper stumpers was uh bumper stum I don't know how long it was on for but yeah I remember that it's the you remember do you know that one I know of it I haven't seen it but I know bumper stumpers I invited Adam neiff on here who's the game show historian who's a friend of the show and he was going to try and make it on but he couldn't he couldn't make it uh you let me know at the end hear that he couldn't make it uh I bet you he'd be able to give you 20 minutes on it this guy is like oh yeah oh man he goes deep when it comes to game shows he he knows it all has written many many books and uh you know he's the guy on maybe not Jeopardy but uh on the game show judges he's one of the judges he's one of those guys and uh he would be able to go you know for a long time on on on bumper stumpers that's fantastic ad is one of the greatest guests a person can have on their show because you just ask him just uh Milton Burl tell me a little about him and then 20 minutes later he's he just my God the knowledge he has so much knowledge and he's just fantastic he tells great stories and he's just a fantastic guest you got to have him on your show I mean I know he's been on your show but oh yeah Adam's great yeah like I said I invited him tonight too because I mean there would have been a whole bunch of connections that he knows all about when it comes to you know the stuff we're talking about tonight I knew it was going to go this great I knew it was going to be amazing um and if anybody needs to tap out you can tap out anytime don't feel the need to stay on if you don't want I just want to point out St Steve Young you said you've never seen a telon you're now in one this is what they were we going the third third hour I don't think we' made enough money yet I think we have to go for how much are we is the number across the bottom of the screen forgot to set up the helpline I know I had one job I had one J all people on the phones on the back and rows of people on the telephone you know answering the phones amount raised is dropping as people we're taking money away hour and they and they demanded it be returned by the third hour um I'm a big fan of the uh of of of the quote the man who wants nothing is invincible and with this show I literally all I want is this I just want the conversation I really don't care about the numbers and uh and all of that because this is just so much fun for me like I've needed this all week uh you know the election withstanding we've got a bunch of stuff going on in our in our orbit candy and I good stuff some of it but just stuff that's taken up a lot of resources and uh um I had had maybe six episodes in the can and so I haven't done one for a while and I was like I didn't feel like it was starting to atrophy but and I mean you know Darren will be will will will vouch for me on this when you love hosting a podcast and you haven't done one for a while it literally starts to get like I've never been an alcoholic but I I'm starting to get the Jitters a little bit and going okay no I need a fix I need this so this is this is like beyond anything that I would have hoped it was tonight like I I'm so happy uh that we're just getting along and shooting the the way we are it's fantastic hey mik going back to what we're talking about before about yeah just TV and generations and um you're talking about tapes being thrown in the harbor I think my generation I was born in 1980 um I think my generation is the first generation of people that actually consumed what their parents watched and listened to um it's kind of a thing that you TV and music was a disposable and you know I think maybe it's the Advent of the VCR maybe it's syndicated TV stations and the necessity to fill so much air time we grew up watching the same thing our parents watch so I watched get smart every night um I listen to my parents music every night and I don't know if that is the same with the generations before me I don't think I doubt you know Darren or Steve or Stephen you probably didn't listen to the music your parents listen to and what's interesting you did really okay maybe I'm we we're generalizing then because for me it's neat to see it's neat to see my son get into the TV shows I watched or the music I listen to you know he would much rather listen to Leed Leed Zeppelin than he would Taylor Swift um so well you might be you might be proud of this but we um uh the last gig one of my last gigs we were going through and we had to purchase um they needed to purchase some I Love Lucy episodes to run in the background of this convention they were doing so I bought this box set of I Love Lucy and they're like you can have it if you want we don't need it so I brought it home and the four of us me and my wife and my two boys are watching it and they absolutely loved I Love Lucy that's cool and I was so proud that my kids were digging I Love Lucy yeah you never know it's a funny thing too because you know you have to stop and think about this that if if the kids they don't listen to The Beatles if they do this The Beatles it's amazing that they do because the Beatles went on The Ed suin Show in the Ed suin theater 60 years ago now if you if in 1964 you had said how many of you kids are listen to music from 1904 I I don't think there'd be a lot of them it's amazing that any of the stuff that they do listen to any of this stuff frankly a lot of that stuff wasn't even recorded no it was it was recorded later and some of it but what I'm trying to say is the music tastes changed normally like every taste changes and you know what the kind of music people would listen to you I I I just had this weird feeling this expansion the fact that that some of this music or some of this comedy or some of any of this stuff is picked up by some people I I think it's kind of amazing really if you stop if you really look at it from a you know big distance I think one of the differences is bands become Brands so for me queen is the perfect example the work I've done with them um they're no they're kind of an active band but not really they become a brand and as a brand they become movies they become t-shirts they become commercials so the the initial use for that material whether it be for vinyl record or TV show whatever it happens to be it's repurposed now into something else into a different form um so now it's Tik Tok now it's um videos now it's a movie um and the last time I saw Queen live um I was probably one of the older people there and I'm 44 um there were teenagers there were kids there so I think it's interesting that you know I think it's a very purposeful move but a lot of these things have been able to be repurposed and molded into something else and they're viable again um The Beatles you mentioned are an amazing example like you said they're on the at celan show what 64 after Kennedy was assassinated basically and here we are they released a new song last year a new song and it went number one um and you're able to yeah that's right they able to remix the Cog being able to repurpose these things and reintroduce them I I think that's it's interesting and it's interesting I went to a monkeys reunion concert some years ago and there were still three of them about and there were lot lots of kids there Allison was there oh you there great well I don't know if the same one but yeah I saw uh Peter Tor yeah Mike nouth and and and and the last one still standing now Mickey Dolan I saw them at the Beacon here in New York and uh you I saw two of them at uh count basy theater in red bang New Jersey yeah they dwindled off a bit and then now there's only Mickey but I you know I saw Brian Williams go into this thing and I saw all these families with kids and the kids seem to know all the songs you know who who expects this you know it's just really I think it's pretty amazing and kind of wonderful in a way too you know one those bands that you could take your kids to see that I mean their music was very youthful so of course it was in 1967 yeah or 66 but is it youthful now but apparently it is apparently still works least for some kids so your point Stephen which I love because I've had the same observation that we 60 years later are still feeling like pop music from that era is part of our heritage and the oxygen in a way that people in 1964 did not feel that about 194 I I think at various stages for different kinds of culture in the 20th century almost a platonic ideal Plateau was reached I would say the first wave was probably graphic design in the 1920s and poster design and advertising design hit some sort of boom right in the gut but music was a little bit later and it was percolating under different forms of jazz and blues and all did not converge until postwar America but really early 60s was when the technology the vernacular the the forms of music and the celebrity culture of my God the Beatles wrote their own music Their Own lyrics they went to press conferences and blew everyone away with how witty they were they were people they were personalities they were Larger than Life that had never been done before in music it used to be somebody in the back room writes the stuff somebody has been manufactured to perform the stuff some it it's a but we had 75 different parts of a pipeline now it's this one vertically integrated thing and we're all just looking up at this 2001 monolith of The Beatles and this is the new way that Civilization is so music was never the same after that and right and that has never entirely been supplanted by anything larger yeah it's interesting too CU I remember for a long time there was a joke that got way overused that you know how time had passed and the kids would say you mean Paul McCartney had a group of four wings well nobody knows who Wings was but they still know the beetle they don't they still know the Beatles it's a mix too because I also remember uh one night the on the Grammy Awards Paul McCartney was on and there's Story the next day that the number the number one question that was being asked on social media is who is Paul McCartney hashtag who is Paul McCartney so it's some doe and some do yeah was that after he did the thing with with Kanye no I think it before that because I think they had him on something else Twitter was was a flurry because he had done something some performance with Kanye right he watch Kanye had no idea who this guy was a mix I mean the some people will know and some don't but it's amazing that some do in the same way Stephen you were talking about your film and your production company and and this is cryptic lost information to Future Generations we know this is a thing we don't know what why I remember my younger daughter who's Now 26 but at some point I don't know like 10 or 12 years ago she knew that the Beatles were something but she didn't know really what it was but at some point she said to me okay I I was I don't know listening to something or somebody told two of them are still alive they were British yeah like the the they still are basic information you cannot assume anyone under a certain age has ingested is Flowing to them very imperfectly and radically and and it's hilarious it's just like children are trying to absorb fragments that flow to them on these currs and broken and imperfect and they don't they don't know what they're what they're trying to absorb but they they are interested it's something but they have to get context that is not provid for them well Steve now I'm going to turn around and make you feel old because I you know you get to my age you start going to doctors a lot they always make small talk first before they do anything so it's like uh what do you do and I say well I'm a writer I said what do you work for I've worked for television he says oh really anybody I might have known and I'm now get the point well they're not gonna know Robert Klein anymore nobody knows who Robert Klein is anymore I know this the only thing I got is David letman at this point and so I say uh David love Robert kin I love Robert k Robert well I'm glad you do but but not not a lot of people know him anymore don't tell Robert I said cut this out Mike um I was gonna have him meet him for lunch tomorrow I'll I'll yeah so I I said to this guy who's who looked 30s something I said I said fine uh David Letterman he said oh I've heard of him yeah yeah I mean that was an interesting thing late in the Letterman run I remember the one of the writ who was at some shoot I think we were I don't know what we were shooting was it was like after in the evening with Dave and it was up up on the roof of the Ed Sullivan Theater and there were this and that I don't have no idea what the bit was but there was some uh younger like teenage actress involved in some bit and and I think she went up to Dave Letterman and said oh I'm so excited to meet you and he said oh that's very nice and she said my grandparents love you well maybe if he shaved off that stupid beard people would think she was younger I'm sorry I don't care for that you didn't have the beard during the show you know that reminds me of Britney Spears uh sharing the elevator with Paul Schaefer saying oh you're Paul you're you're Dave's DJ I loved that I that one always tickles me yes it's 5% knowledge of what's going on because we we all have 5% knowledge of something that's outside of our Zone correct that's all we true you know I I realized at some point I can't I couldn't really write I could write some things for television if I were if anybody's insane enough to hire anyone my age but I can't do the pop culture references anymore you know that stuff that was in my fingertips when I was doing Letterman or even when I was doing the Disney show that a pretty good idea still then or at least knew where to find the information I can't do that now and very often I'll be watching The Daily Show or something and I'm fine when they're talking about politics but they start referencing rappers in the jokes section and I'm gone I don't know what like all I could do that stuff also changes every two weeks nowadays yeah well but not to them I think my younger daughter who was confused about the Beatles she's now old enough to feel bewildered by pop culture because it's all uh eight years younger references than she knows yeah guess I'm just yeah that that's the only thing makes me feel good about when the young people say they don't know my stuff and say yeah you're going to feel this too in a couple years so about being a dinosaur I'm a trilobit i i i preceded any of the dinosaurs now what gets really awkward is when I was teaching TV history about two two and a half years ago I had the issue of trying to find which reference I have that my students will also understand if I was trying to explain a concept because the undergraduate students nowadays they all grew up in a world where streaming has been part of their lives so whereas you and I can talk about I Love Lucy and you can be reasonably certain that I have at least seen an episode or two I have students who are like who's Lucille Ball and it's like oh but do people in your classes even watch quote unquote television anymore I was telling Mike recently when we were talking I personally have not turned on a TV to watch a TV show in over a year I don't think and I was telling and Mike you'll remember this anecdote about friend of mine said that his teenage niece told him oh I I love the office and my friend said oh yeah the office is so great what season are you on season she did did not know it was a TV show she just thought it was Clips on on her feed on her phone yeah wow well you know my wife and I were explaining to the kids because you know TV history isn't just so much old TV shows now it's how you ingest it you know we stream shows now and you know we were explaining to them when we were kids and you watched the show you couldn't pause it if you had to go to the bathroom you waited for the commercial break if you missed an episode you missed it and you hoped that over the summer you caught a repeat and then you know it's like I grew up in the mountains of Virginia and we had a antenna on top of the house and a rotary dial that you would turn and it would change the direction of the antenna and North would be would get the CBS Station South would get the NBC station or whatever when that rotary dial broke my dad instead of going and buying a new rotary dial he would climb up the top of the house and move the antenna by hand we can watch another freaking TV show and we didn't anything else about it just assumed your father had to climb on top of the house you were going to watch Fantasy Island dangerous physical labor is involved in the logistics of of this medium that's just the way it is you remember when You' smack the TV when it wasn't coming in you'd start side of it and it would come in clearer I used to try I would spend the entire half hour of a show trying to get the antenna to get a decent picture I wouldn't even be seeing the show they just be doing this all the time yeah yeah or just give up and hold the the antenna and watch it you put aluminum foil on it yeah yeah we did aluminum foil sometimes we did aluminum foil and that worked yeah yeah I'm not I'm a little too young for that I do remember rabbit ears at my grandmother's house but I remember having to watch commercials not being able to pause or rewind to the point where I'll occasionally still forget that I can pause I sort of love that though in a throwback way uh with misgivings I listen to things on Spotify even though I know they give one millionth of a scent to the artists but I refuse to pay them for the premium tier so every 20 minutes I listen to commercials and it's 1978 again except it's Spotify on the internet I'm sort of the opposite I spent my whole life sitting through commercials and now I say I'll pay anything just don't make me watch them anymore I'm done I've seen enough commercials there's so many wonderful products and services uh what was that thing you were talking about again the the earlier the the Lim thing yeah yeah yeah wizard yeah thank you how would I know see you wouldn't know we I would never know about this I'll have to I'll have to send you guys a oh yeah I need we need to see this we need to see this for sure we'll put it up in the Facebook group I guess the idea of destination television is really gone it's no longer a thing that Noels at nine o'clock on Thursday I guess the only exception for that would have been the news and that's gone it would be Sports correct sp% Sports I still there's a barbecue place I like to go to on sun you know if I go on Sunday late afternoon there's a line out here because they're all getting barbecue to watch the game so I I go on S Saturdays so that's like yeah that's the last appointment thing they don't care nobody even watches the awards any shows anymore it's a live thing that we all saw live even when all the other shows were tape or film they still had you know the Oscars like they don't watch that that stuff I would assume that would make Sports the most valuable content you can have on any station then because it be the only destination programming watch live more money local news local news still gets an audience do they I mean I don't know I wonder I don't I never watch I've never I didn't used to watch local do older now I mean they do but a lot of the viewers who watch TV now are in their 60s and older if they're watching linear TV and not streaming yeah everything I watch on TV is on the PVR except for uh except for some some the sports what's that the PVR ISR you guys call it a DVR yeah yeah yeah it's PVR here I don't use that anymore the metric system Allison the metric system that's right I'm I mostly use at this point streaming stuff I don't there's not that many shows that I watch that I I don't watch on stream the DVR is basically not useless now I guess to Darren's point you said about news I I guess like the Fox news station would be the the one thing um because it it appeals to a certain audience yep yeah well that audience just did us a real service this week I mean I'm I'm talking I'm talking like you know Pittsburgh Cincinnati they're they're local local just like local affiliates yeah yeah that still has an audience but to your point about uh destination television or appointment television uh streaming services have started releasing uh episodes one at a time again on Wednesday you see the next episode or whatever because yeah yeah because they were people would watch like eight or nine of them at once and some people I guess would Subs would uh subscribe and then they would watch everything and then they would cancel so yeah uhuh I'm grateful for it I I like you know the what I have a I have knowledge of a lot of the shows that I love um because of that's how it used to be the westwing is one of those shows where I have so much knowledge of the westwing I know a lot about that show like it it Rivals it might even rival Letterman I know a ton of it and the reason being is because it would be released weekly and I would be R if if I was ravenous for a show I would watch the show two or three times I used to do the same thing with LA law as a kid uh I would watch I would watch the episode two or three times before the next one came out and the level of familiarity was just so much more potent then now even watching hacks like I'm watching hacks going through hacks I'm so excited about Merill being on there and I'm going through it again and it's like I forgot I forget some of the characters names because I consume it so quickly we just consume it so fast and you don't get that knowledge the way that you would when it was uh weekly and I I I I love the weekly thing I uh I'm a big fan of that binging is fun too but if on a first run you can watch it that way um I think it means more well the best thing about binging is you don't have to wait a whole year when you go from one season to the next no but you have to you have to wait two or three years between Seasons that makes me crazy because I'm old and I can't remember this stuff oh that is true yeah stranger things I don't know if I'm gonna be alive when they release the final seon I know they're going they're going to be they're going to be 65 the kids how how are they going to explain the time Jump walking around the sorry American television has moved towards the British model of short Seasons with long distances between them yeah a part of it is that they're so elaborate the shows themselves they make it takes them so long to actually produce them and I think it's you know it's and they also want to they think if the stories are really complicated you're going to get more drawn in and I think it works up to a point that a certain point I think it's I think it pushes you away at some point and it's interesting that that for example Star Trek all the new Star Trek shows where what would do one story for a whole season which is a streaming model but when they start they did the one that was set back before the Kirk era the strange new worlds he said oh why don't we try this thing where we do a different story every week that's all we ever used to see the television shows we didn't have continuing stories and I read somewhere that there were there were people who were saying like that was a whoa what is this I'm not I'm not used to this it's a different story every week you know and it was like a new thing to them everything old is new again oh look ads supported television I mean that's also because if yeah if you've got a series that um you really have to pay attention to and you you miss an episode what the hell's going on here now I I there are shows I've stopped watching because I I keep sometimes I need the Recaps right to read before the next episode if I can't understand the recap okay I figur there's something wrong with this show so it's like so some of them get like incredibly complicated I don't not sure they're doing their best that's necessarily the best thing I know I'm old and don't process stuff to same way anymore but I don't think I would have gotten the stuff when I was younger either some of it it's really interesting because I never really consciously took notice that continuity has become such a big part of television as opposed to let's say Seinfeld you could watch a episode from season five or season eight and it didn't really matter because it didn't build on anything the same thing we used to watch shows you know we like we were some somebody else said you know you were if you missed it you missed it but you could come in the next week and still understand what was going on because it was a complete compl complete story in itself that's another thing there now there are two imitations of Columbo on the air Pokerface and elth a same thing a case of the week just like the old days and it's like oh this is a new discovery we oh what an interesting thing to do it's like okay I didn't even think to compare Els what's it Elizabeth is very is very that and Pokerface which I think is the better of the show Columbo very Columbo you come in there's a crime already we know who did it and you wait to see the person Sol it I think of the two of them poker faces fantastic SP this up and down yeah um as we uh move into this part of the conversation and by the way I love it oh hey I'm an Energizer Bunny I don't care this is fun we'll probably break it up into two episodes actually but uh Allison is tapping out and uh she's the first the youngest ironic the youngest uh is going up oh kids get tired so fast these days I do have a job Mike I know you have a job yeah I know I get it I get it no nobody the the rest of this rumors is employed obviously um thank you so much for coming on here I know you had I know you had some fun and uh definitely yeah I know you did I know this was fun for you so and it's great to have you here and I appreciate your brain and your knowledge and your insights as to these things very very much and uh so I appreciate you and and and it's great to have you as a friend of the show uh Darren's supposed to be hosting this show but uh you know I don't know why but whatever yeah that was a joke two hours ago Mike no one remembers right nobody remembers that in the previous segment yeah yeah they'll get the recap Alison it's okay they'll read it there previously on the Letterman podcast appreciate there thought yeah Allison it was nice meeting you nice to meet you thank you pleasure have a good night buddy bye have a good night um well now that the girls are gone good Lord got some fun now what was her deal come on I uh I I hope to have and being on at some point that would be fun to have him on as well because having Bill Carter on is great Dave being uh he has a he has a different uh historical take on some of these things and it would be great to pick his brain about some of this stuff but what were you gonna say Darren Mike you're from Canada yes Steve and Steve what was Letterman's fascination with the country of Canada every time Martin Short was on he would uh hey hey you know you're from Canada right and yes it's like Eugene Levy would come on you're from Canada is that right and it's like every person who is from Canada Dave would just I don't know what his Fascination was with Canada Ann Murray are you from Canada yes yes I am oh that's fascinating I love that you said more somehow that Canada was even more the Midwest than the Midwest itself and maybe like to see everything he knew turned up to 11 on the dial somehow I can't I can't say anything else other than there is a can it seems to be there's a Canadian sensibility with that show that's all I can really uh it just feels like it appealed so much to and and Canadian talent would do so well on there like I think Dave did have uh like if you go into Dawn channel the the SCV compilation I think it's seven Parts Long and it's everybody who was ever part of anv all throughout the years right into into I can tell you this for a fact Mike we used to when we were when we first started the show in 82 we were on four days a week and satv was on Friday night and once a month we would do like a 90 minute special and we always our 90minut specials always got higher ratings than STV all the writers would come in more Monday morning and hear about that and we just complain about it that's so so much better than ours why why are they getting lower ratings it's ridiculous the the two SE two seasons that I was available for writing's guilt Emmy Award nominations one season SCV got four of the five writing uh nominations second time it got five out of five and nobody complained it's like that show was so so good uh I think we're all obsessed with it we used to come we got very excited when people came on the show yeah because we thought they were so great you know it just just having them in the room so that was the show that we revered and and Barry had worked with them on uh for a while too he came down from that from that show too so but we just that was that was the the best and you know when they did the 100 best written shows The Writers Guild award thing got that we got in in a three-way tie for 97th place and all I remember thinking us if satv had gotten on this which it should have been we would not have gotten on it ah there you go you know I think that you know sat was unbelievably great show yeah I and I mean Canadians are are funny in the sense that uh we have this ownership that we take over things that make it big in the US and and and I mean I'm not I'm certainly not speaking just personally I know almost everybody I know uh take some sort of ownership like I'll give you an example in the in the in the 90s when Shia Twain uh went big in the US that was a big deal for Canada we were very very proud of our you know Canadian daughter who who did well uh Jim Carrey of course being an example nctv I mean you know Marty Short and and and and and Eugene Levy and John Candy and uh you know the whole crew um making it big down there it was really big for for for us as Canadians and we would take it as a national pride almost like you know more so than how many medals are are country wins at the Olympics we love it when our uh acts that we have that cultivated here make it big down there there's just a thing that we have hello so there we go there we go people who knew about SCTV but somehow this entirely passed me by I don't really funny check it outy with Martin Short and he told me to look up some sketch and I did and so I've probably seen like five minutes of scv's total output but this is part of the weird glory of the Letterman show you could have people who knew the history of Comedy backwards and forwards alongside people who'd never seen one minute of what you were I the perfect example sorry some voice that could also contribute the perfect example of that was George Meyer who's one of the funniest humans ever lived anywhere one of the best writers you know Carline both were like serious comedy fans you know for everything from all the stuff you know collect we used to collect all radio comedy shows on on real toore tapes would see the old movies etc etc if you asked George Meyer at that certainly at that time what was his biggest compy influence he said I love getsmart and which is fine getsmart was a good joke I couldn't I don't remember him ever saying anything else and George Meyer walked in that room and and just you know day after day after day he would blow us away he was the unbelievably funny man and still is but that that yeah you're absolutely right that had that range of people and it didn't matter the only thing that the only benefit I always felt that we had from studying all this stuff just because we loved it not because it was like work is that we could we had we could jump quickly so we knew so many formats and structures it's like the early first couple of weeks of that show nobody knew what this comedy bits were going to be so we would come in and saywell you know why why doesn't we have Dave perform like a little lecture comedy thing like and we were thinking of Robert benley you know so so we would do something like that do something like that and you know it meant that they had they could draw something we could get something on the air some of those things became regular part some didn't was almost as if like knowing musical Theory you knew what a major chord was and a minor chord and a diminished chord and a ninth chord and some idiot savant who has a great musical gift feels all those things but doesn't know how to talk about them I think that's true and I think there was a lot of that there and it's it's you know and I've run into it on on and off throughout other shows that I've worked on too it's it's the first thing you learn you probably some people are just damn funny that's it they're funny they're born funny they're funny when they open up anything they do the you know and if if there's anything they have to learn it's structure but structure is the easy part yeah if you're funny you can learn joke structure sketch structure all that stuff and five minutes yeah but if you're not funny you can know all I know comedy writers I won't mention any names uh or people who try to be comedy writers who will present you with a sketch that or something a script that absolutely immaculately structured forms set set up half but it just isn't funny you know and it's like what do you do you know on The Simpsons Matt Greening was having some meeting with some Fox people about episode number I don't know 411 or whatever and they said oh we're worried that the structure isn't properly set up here and Matt graining said you know what we all know by now how the structure works we're going to fix that the real question for the long term for the success of this episode is going to be the jokes do you have great jokes that you can help us out with if not leave us alone because we we got we got the structure we'll go in the back room we'll figure out the jokes don't worry it's interesting as a viewer not working in what you guys have done um and as a fan the thing to me you know in my early teens and watching late night it didn't seem that the show did have a structure I mean obviously it did obviously there was writers obviously There Was You Know act one two three but the show felt dangerous as a viewer it felt like the damn thing was going to come off the rails at any time Y and some of that may have been um truly off the rail El some it may have been somewhat um manufactured but there's a feeling that the show was dangerous um you know I remember my sister was 10 years older than me she watched Areno Hall and when Areno went off the air I would watch Letterman and the tangible feeling was so different It Felt Like Anything could happen it's going to be a mess and God I hope it's a mess because it's going to be 10 times funnier because Dave's going to shred it something yeah and that's where that thing of it doesn't matter what it is as long as the person's damn funny and it's it was it felt like it was always better when things did go bad because Dave you felt like Dave could pivot and he was gonna make fun of the show more than I ever could and that made it even better yeah he thrived on that stuff that that's sort of a little that may been one of the things he picked up from Steve Allen too because Steve Allen was very good at that he was a big fan of Steve Allen and he and Steve Allen would be would often go to the point of letting things get out of control because like David he was a great ad Li so he could take it and really play with it uh I think there are probably I think if if things were always going wrong you would have you would it would lost its magic sure because the idea of something going wrong after every couple of weeks or every couple of months then you oh something's really happening now but you did you sort of that again that's that what Barry S put in he put the Box around him you know he said here's all the crazy stuff but here's the box that's in yeah it was such a conundrum because the gold standard is cha chos that produces magic that you couldn't planned you can have chaos every night of the week but not very often will it produce the true magic so you're in a dangerous tight RPP walk if you want to go out on the chaos rope because most of the time you will fall off yeah I that may have been what was the problem at the beginning of the morning show before you know the structure was put into it that people didn't even know what they were watching at for a certain point because there was no grounding you know no no feeling of you know what are we doing here what's happening the producer quit what the Friday before the show started too so I'm sure that didn't help either I'm sorry was that didn't the producer of The Morning Show quit like Frid they fired him they fired they fired him was guy put G show producer yeah and they they said they he kept wanting to give away Buick that was his idea to you know to I would take a Buick but Jerry Mullan I remember Jerry Mullan told the story about leading up to the beginning of the morning show this producer whose name I don't know you may well know I used to know it but it's going out of my head he he sat in all these meetings and he finally could not contain himself anymore and he said to the assembled group of whoever the whole staff if you people think this is funny you're sadly mistaken and there was this long quiet pause and then it was clear that like as the meeting broke up Dave and Merill and whoever said we need to talk to the network this guy cannot here anymore he is not one us he doesn't get it he's not he doesn't get the sensibility he's not the in the tribe that's going to see what we're up to here and enjoy the Glorious explosion of logic and taste and form that we are about to um Undertake and yeah the network would just assign some random because he was a morning guy it was a Morning Show and he was a morning guy yeah how they thought with this new Anarchy that was coming onto the scene and there's no particular reason anyone in a network producing situation gotten that sensibility so it was not likely that it would be a good match but I do just remember Jerry saying this guy finally couldn't couldn't take it anymore and said a you people think this is funny you're badly mistaken yeah I don't it was Bob Stewart that's right Bob Stewart thank you yeah that's it he he going all the way back with NBC I think a lot of game shows it's so in in subsequent years Bob Stewart watched the show and saw the emys and went how this still doesn't make any sense to me but apparently the world is larger than I thought what the hell my guess is you never watch the show again that's my guess okay that you know must have heard of it for like prob heard a top late night Heap agulation comedy oh I'm sure he was baffled and Cal conversation what is wrong wrong with people yeah I don't know well there's a a couple examples that stick out there was the one critic who um wrote just this scathing awful review of how bad the Beatles performance was on the edivan show and he sees no future for them right they their their melodic gifts are minimal they grading right failed harmonies and uh thuing mismatched yeah just yeah that's wonderful there was that uh there was that producer who was trying to tell Stephen Spielberg and Robert zus that they they just can't use the title Back to the Future because that makes yeah absolutely no sense the audience is going to be confused what are they doing and and I can't remember the the uh was the stud the alternate title that they were pitching but I'm like oh my God but of course it's hindsight being you know 2020 well one of the one of my favorite comic artists in the history of the B the world was Buster Keaton and Buster Keaton was still alive in the 60s when I was growing up and he was doing TV shows and things like that recently there's was a quote of his that was floating around online and it's from that that period and he said you know sometimes I I I I'm with the older the people from my generation the old people in the movies said oh it's so boring so some of those people they're so out of touch some of them never heard of Beatles record so you know some people kept keep up which it's nice and I say that now as somebody who I don't think has ever heard of Taylor Swift song so I'm in the wrong wrong side of this but whole I'm in this uh songwriters Alliance now that I'm doing song stuff and this guy who runs it is uh maybe a few years older than me but sort of took a skeptical view of Taylor Swift oh she must be some manufactured pop star who's just this F for corporate infotainment whatever and he at some point had some friend who said no you should listen to her said really okay and he is now a passionate fan of Taylor Swift as a I'm gonna try it I gotta try it and at every juncture mentions her and talks about her puts his song her songs in his playlist he's done like live tributes to her as a songwriter and and made me think yeah I don't know anything about her except the most glib dismissive well she must not be anything if she's like beloved by teenagers but she has caught a hold of uh lightning apparently in the same way all our favorite creative people have and is completely legitimate and a a huge Primal Force so except she didn't help us win the election they told us was going to happen yeah okay yeah there's where she Bel I'll tell you the one that happened to me and it was because of Dave um I it wasn't that I didn't get Billy ish but I didn't like really go down and like it like I would say it's a similar I had a similar uh Viewpoint and and and and when Dave interviewed her and Phineas on my next guest I went down the Billy Alish rabbit hole and I'm like oh oh oh oh oh oh I get this now I understand and some of her stuff absolutely affects me the way that radio ahead affected me you know growing up and and and and and uh and that is anyone who knows me in my musical taste that is extremely high praise I get it with her now uh I haven't gone down that rabbit hole with Taylor Swift I I can tell I can see why her music is catchy I can understand it's very very pop it's very it's it's it's good I get it but I haven't gone down that rabbit hole where it's actually fused to my soul but Billy ish I either and Billy eish from what little I've heard sort of mopy and mumbly and what did she I can't understand what she's saying and never felt older than when I try to understand something like that I'm sorry go ahead I say I've heard a couple of her songs with like the James Bond one a couple other things it's I don't I'm not crazy about it but I could sort of get it I mean it's not something I would probably choose to listen to on my own but you know I also they they there was a story and this was years ago already they said that that kids don't think Melody is they don't they Melody is not like a part of music to them anymore yeah you know what I mean and it that seems so weird to me so and I don't know if that's still a thing or not but there very often I'll hear a song that I keep sort of waiting for the for the chorus to come in or for the bridge or something that I recognize as a melodic structure and it never gets there a one Chord song with a beat yeah and I and they love it and and you know I'm old I accept that it has some seing lyrical examination of The Human Condition and the agonies that we're all presented with in some new refreshing maybe but mostly and again old man I don't I what I I understood one word out of ten of what was just sung yeah in all fairness our parents didn't understand one we the 10 other stuff we heard to it too it's see year has to be tuned to it a certain George Martin made sure that all the fre song was clear and the freight was my late friend Hank BBE when he wrote Industrials and you had an audience full of Ford tractor dealers who were hearing a song for the first time and they were only going to hear it once the freight had to be delivered absolutely clearly the first time and so I prized that as if you don't hear every word on the first hearing you're you're not doing it right but these other people now just think it's all part of a Sonic landscape of sort of a Vibe and you're disaffected and whatever and I just think okay good for you if you're doing it my father was from Chattanooga Tennessee and he would listen to The Beatles and he would say to me why are they all seeing with Southern Accents and it's sort of funny because when it's actually sort of true they do not sing with British accents they don't have a they they they have a a sort of Mid America kind of thing and the reason was they that's the music they grew up listening to that mean it was the early rock and roll that they listen to it was all from the the south of you know that kind of area and it's sort of seeped in it's not it's not a hard southern accent but it's but my father recognized it as Sou they were doing Buck Owens while Baker field notth yeah right that was what their influences so but now we take it for granted that that's the sound of of pop that pop ear of popular music they love they love Chuck Barry yeah Chuck yeah exactly that's that's stuff they love Rich they were performing on the same bill with him for like months at a time yep and is anyone still listening I I may tap out soon Steve before you tap out I do have a question for you and it's about Hank it's about Hank Okay so Hank BB right yeah okay uh when when when um Tim tomerson uh was given the gig to do the uh Tales from the old west his name was Bob BB poon was the BB did you was that you was that you no I had nothing to do with that segment it it was one of the things in the later Realm of the show that utterly baffled me and I understood okay this is Dave sort of carving out airtime for his old friends or whatever but I just thought uh I I don't know what this is I don't know is I I have it's like a something from another extremely cryptic planet has fallen on my head here I don't know what is I love I loved it so much who was behind that segment do we know do we know who wrote that I I was wondering if Tim was a was was a part of it um you know an engineer of it but uh I got to talk to Altman again because Alman was gonna get me in Char in touch with Tim and then he had a I think he had a he had a s a surgery maybe like a knee surgery or something like that I'm not sure if that's what it was but it was something like that and so I never really followed up on it but I got to get Tim on here and and and talk about some of the stuff the I I just funny as hell yeah but then I was like why are they doing three for them a night it's like I I didn't know if they were intentionally trying to bother people yeah I mean there was a sort of weird passive aggressive let's see how far we can alienate the audience before canels us Mike I'm gonna have to tap out too I'm afraid I don't know if Steve's going or not I I have medical tests first thing tomorrow morning so another fun part of being old so I'm going to do that and my my intention is basically get it get if I have any of this at all I want to get it done with before RFK Jr takes over the health department so I'm going in now let check out I love you my friend tell tell tell your wife I love her as well well we love you too and thank you I'm sorry I didn't hear you what was that Darren tell laor I said hi as well oh of course thank you so much you you guys cheered me up tonight because it's not in a great mood today so thank you for doing this take care talk to you soon I don't I don't even know how to do this I'll I guess I'll pop out sometime take care guys bye bye bye W and Mr Young same thing thank you so much for taking time out of your night to be here Steve this is so much fun well I I remembered oh nine o'clock wasn't that the oh there's the email oh there's yeah let me pour myself a martini and see what happens okay quantifier that's that's that's Steve Young's uh Martini ladies and gentlemen and next time the former bartender will come on and reveal the secrets of the quantifier the quantif fire that's good all right I'm going good night all Adam pleas nice to meet you see you all right bye bye see you later how much one was that boys all right Adam between me and you who's gonna last the longest well I have to be at work in seven hours so it's not gonna be long for me yeah I'm how much fun was that though I I I knew it would I knew that this was something me and Morty uh have been talking about doing this with a reunion with some of the folks on late night and I want wanted to take it out for a test run before we had you know potentially the names that we're talking about here um it was actually mine smithsburg's idea who hasn't been on the show and she wants to come on with Morty and a couple other ones and it all spawned from they they they talked about this text chain that they had uh going when Richard Simmons passed and it was just one liner after one liner after one liner of hilarity they're just you know going through these memories and stuff and meline says to me she goes I'd like to have all these people on your show at the same time and I'm like yes meline I I I would like that too I think that would be very great and uh but I wanted to take it for a test run first and so this was I think as a a guest it works like when I was on your show however many months ago it was y it felt easier when Don Geller hopped on because it was someone else to play off of too and when you have four or five people one of those people are going to say something that oh I can do a Zinger off of that or something so yeah yeah it's it's good bring them on yeah so that was a lot and if I have nothing then I have four the people that can fill in well there we go like that's it that's Friends of the show like this is the one thing like one thing that I wanted to do and it was funny Daren you know made some jokes at the beginning why he was the first uh guest on the show I totally sh him the original idea was collecting a community of us that all kind of felt the same way we're affected the same way but in our own different Slants and I I thought the first 20 to 30 episodes of the Letterman podcast was going to be kind of this like what we're doing here what we're doing here I did not suspect that by episode seven dreon was gonna be on or some of these other like it just Cy again he just came through in such a such a way um you know with the staffers but now the cool part is we can merge all of us who have this fascination with some of these guys and we can ask questions to them and it keeps the passion like I just I love the whole idea of it and um we have enough people that are friends of the show that we can do this anytime and and really at the end of the day it's Limitless you know um when we have certain people on even for a first time I like the idea of having a couple of us on here I think it's I think it's a cool cool gig so well Adam I I wrote the joke um you know um the best thing about this podcast is if you've seen Letterman show Once you can be a guest on this podcast so and that's what I thought podcast was going to be you know I thought it was just going to be fans of the show talking about how much they loved it and uh and you know their favorite segments and that type of stuff and I was like good good for Mike it'll be a cute little you know show and then three episodes after I was on he had Mark meloff and then he had the dude who uh wrote the the bumpers book and then he had Tom dreon and then he had I'm like my God and it just totally evolved so uh it evolved in something amazing something much faster and bigger than I had uh anticipated and not like I I never thought that it was capable of doing it I just didn't think it would I thought it was going to be a fan podcast so it was my episode I think was one or two episodes after dick Cavit I'm like holy hell I have to follow dick Cavit that's not good yikes well and that's the beautiful thing about not caring about the numbers and and and the people who come on the show don't either you know Paul did not care what our numbers were when he came on um you know Morty either and and it's because I think there's the the fraternity of people who have been on the show they're like oh so- and so was on okay I'll jump on um like and there are some people who are going to be coming on because of because of some of the folks who have been on the show and it's just kind of snowballing and like I said if I get Rory on and Rory leads me to to to to uh you know to Ray to Ray Romano then it's gonna be like oh you've had Ray Romano on okay why not Adam Sandler and all that that's kind of what I'm seeing sort of happening and and it's just I'm just trying to enjoy every moment of it and I love talking to you guys I love you know both of you you know will jump on the phone or whatever and we're 45 minutes an hour uh talking just shooting the bull yeah uh from the things that we love from our different perspectives I I I I love that I'm so grateful for this thing and the whole thing I wanted to do from the very beginning was build a community and it's happening it's totally happening and it's it's it's so much fun I'm grateful that you guys are a part of it mik as a listener obviously you can tell you're having a great time with it but also seems like you're fitting into it like it's easier for you so how has it become easier for you well what has clicked or is it just repetition of doing it or you've got all the you you've interview Paul Schaefer you didn't mess that up that went fine so is a thing that I mean that in the best possible way no I I appreciate that I appreciate that but is it a thing that like I've done the hard one now it's this this is pretty easy this is there's no stress to it yeah um I'll tell you it was at the beginning it was the impostor syndrome uh sure like it was it was thick like I didn't even want to I was sick to my stomach even sharing the episode in the alt fan Letterman Facebook group um I I was like really really really worried that I wouldn't be accepted or whatever and Shey was like ah what's the worst that can happen like he he just he he he really you know kept me centered he's like no people are gonna know that you're a nice guy um that you're not just a psycho obsessed fan of this you have many other interests and are very good at those interests as well um you know people will find out but they will also find out you've got a big brain for this stuff like he he he liked the questions I would ask him compared to other maybe you know quote unquote super fans um that would ask him but I didn't know that and so I felt the need to prove that early on and I would talk over guests and things like that and and that was one that you know get doing this over Zoom there's a there's a learning curve to that as well um so that was that was a The Imposter syndrome part once it started to go away Paul's episode I wish I could have a take back and I know it was like I've I've listened to it again a couple of times and I've cringed at at some of the things that I've done uh most notably uh uh uh trying to draw some sort of bizarre connection between the world's most dangerous band and Fish the band fish I don't know why I would do something like that but if I could take back any I I wish I could take back that moment um but after Morty then it was like okay like Bill Carter was a big one Morty was a big one cavat was I was scared out of my mind in a different way like cavat I was just really right uh you're gonna be a talk show host to Dick habit yeah and by the end of it he says like he actually said it on camera he's like and I like you I really like you I'm like oh my God like are you and I've had conversations with with with he and Martha since and I mean telling them about this Jack Rollins project we're working on they're like oh we want to be involved please keep us posted we want to be more than just interviewed for it and it's like oh my gosh like you know I'm not an impostor anymore I'm part of this stuff whether you know countless staffers have welcomed me to the family speaking at Rupert's thing I mean that all adds to what you're talking about Adam it's really um I get charged up like last week I had a guy on named Alex Hazard who was an intern and then he was part of the audience coordination right up to near the end of the show I was just as I'm still just as stoked to talk to him as I am talking to Robert Morton on the phone like I I still I I haven't lost that enthusiasm for it and I'm stoked to talk to you guys tonight about it too so I think that the enthusiasm is the thing that is the Silver Bullet um and as you said just getting used to the format it becoming predictable becoming a more relaxed like on a on a different level just more relaxed even though I'm still as enthusiastic about it it's just uh yeah something I've noticed about the evolution of your show is you ask conversational questions you don't ask yes you you clearly don't have super fan questions like you know on episode 414 when hooting and the Blowfish were there what were you holding in the cup you know that type of you know yeah yeah you're it's a very conversational podcast and it's that's what it is it's a conversation it's almost like you don't have questions the texts and the cameramen have uh um and and Amy Sharon is a good example that I I I like to to to use because Amy was like oh man I'm not going to be good for this show I won't be very I'm like no no no it's not an interview it's a conversation you and I just gonna have a conversation I said did you enjoy your time at letter and she's said it was the greatest time of my life outside of my family I'm like okay can I ask you why and can I can we talk about that and I'll tell you what we'll do it on camera and if you don't like it we won't air it and I've made that promise to a few people and and and that's the difference I think and this is also the reason why some people who hate the show um because I great on their on their whatever and I do talk a lot because I get I kind of Kickstart the conversation with people like with Amy I did the majority of the talking for the first four or five minutes or whatever but once she starts conversing back and forth then I can kind of sit back and let them talk more and more and more and more and more and the majority of the of our guests that's what they do um so yeah a conversation rather than an interview is certainly an intentional intentional part of the show and I mean I'm preaching to the choir IR irritable dad syndrome it's a total conversation with the two of you and and and you just kind of bounce off each other right it can't be an interview um to have that that sort of show it it it's interesting Mike a few years ago um I interviewed Richard edland you guys know who Richard edland is by any chance yep Darren has that look in his face like the name the name sounds familiar and I'm trying to think aware of I can't place it so he was one of the founding members of industrial it of magic so the opening shot of Star Wars where the um Star Destroyer comes over the camera that was Richard edin he worked on Raiders of Lost Arc um Ghostbusters I think back the future um I think he was in The Screen Actors Gale I mean he has more Emmys and Lifetime Achievement Oscars than anyone you could imagine yeah um he also happened to take the photography for Warren zon's first album and he also developed the pyos amplifier which George Harrison used Bob Dylan used Warren used and I just got this idea one day I'm gonna email his website and interview this guy because he knew Warren zon and you know what he said yes and I interviewed the dude for two hours and to Mike's Point I didn't know what I was doing and I did not shut the hell up and it wasn't a conversation yeah and you it's to watch mic progress and to become a conversation and I still have the audio to that I'm still editing it down but I'm editing myself out of it and just making it a narrative from him yeah I'm just like God damn it if I could get that back and do that better I would um especially with someone of that caliber well when you have a okay so a good conversation goes both ways you need to be a good conversationist and then the person you're speaking to needs to be be open to that and needs to be willing to have the conversation many years ago uh I Billy Bob Thorton was coming to town and he was coming to this bar up the road from me and a friend of mine is buddies with the guy who runs the place and I said I would love to meet Billy Bob Thorton can you arrange something where I can get a backstage pass I'll buy my tickets I just want to meet him he says let me see what I can do so he comes back the next day he says it's all arranged uh you're going to be there you're going to be the only one uh doing the interview and it'll be good and I'm like I'm doing an interview o okay I totally wasn't planning on doing that so I bring the camera and the lights and microphones and uh brought my buddy Dave with me to shoot it because I mean you know and his manager tells me he says you got 20 minutes that's it don't go more 20 minutes and he only wants to talk about his music um so don't talk to him about any of his movies or TV shows he's only wanted to talk about his band his music so those are the only two guidelines that I had I I started talking to Billy Bob Thorton and he would not shut up he talked and talked and talked and was just having he was just relaxed and as good as could possibly be after about 40 minutes or so his manager walked in and said Billy Bob we gotta go it's thing you know and so I was so nervous I was under pressure cuz one I had heard that Billy Bob uh he got really pissed off during the radio interview in England or something because somebody wanted to talk about uh movies instead of his music right and he got really pissed and he walked out and I didn't want to bother I didn't want to piss him off I absolutely did not want to upset him because he's one of my favorite actors but man he was laidback in cool as hell and just talked and talked and talked and talked and talked and he would have continued talking to me had his manager not come in and shut it down yeah so I think what's interesting is how do you talk to a movie star and not talk about their movies I think that's very difficult yeah well he was in town with his band yeah the Billy Bob and the box cutters and so I asked him um I kind of cheated a little bit I said is writing a song easier than writing a screenplay or you know I asked him about his musical influences and you can open it up maybe to other topics like his movies that's smart yeah they cross thank you it's the first time I've been called smart they uh it crossed over a little bit I didn't say you were smart I said the question was smart smart yes I'm gonna tap out I'm not I'm done talking to Adam hunger um I uh I love you're not the first person to say that today I uh I love you guys and uh this is uh this has been a lot of fun this has been fun thank you for inviting me uh yeah I mean and this is hopefully the first of many I I almost I almost invited Morty like I was I was I had it the message ready to go and all that and I just thought okay you know what let's get one under our belt and then we'll bring Morty on because you know he'll he'll love every second of he'll he'll deny it up until the point that it happens and then he gets here he'll get here and he will have so much fun uh talking about this stuff the stor to be honest had I had I not uh met Steve and Steve and i' I've had lots of conversations with Steve Young since and of course I follow Steve Wier on Facebook and we've interacted a lot I I don't know I would have felt comfortable if I hadn't have personally met them I know you wouldn't have yeah but but it's great it's it's it's it's it's great and if Morty were to come on Foster syndrome yeah but yeah if Morty were to come on here he would have more questions though so that helps yeah well that's just it that's just dumb guy I smart questions um you guys are awesome and uh uh you know the first episode of Friends of the show I'm so grateful you guys were here there's a couple other people I wish could have come on but Logistics and uh um and other things uh have have stopped that but at the same time um you two are are are very special to me and I appreciate you both very very very much and uh we don't talk enough but we'll keep doing more of these and and that'll give an opportunity to do that so uh this has been the first inaugural this will be a part two like God we're three hours now right eat it Rogan you can see how you know you can see how Rogan can go three hours that that that didn't feel like any time went by uh we'll probably break it into two parts but um oh hey no we got to talk about the sponsor first somebody say something nice about rer G or hellodd deli.com if you go to hellodd deli.com you can get a coffee mug just like this one right here okay this one yeah all of the all of the worldwide pants show with David Letterman merchandise can only be purchased at hellodd deli.com and yes uh if if uh if you ask nicely he'll throw in onions that's right I stole your joke that's right you stole the joke I stole your joke there's the badge from the hello Deli from the last night last night of uh of rert there um this has been great I love you both very very much I'm going to do the outro right here unless oh no Darren you want to do the outro no I'll let you do the outro I'll do the outro okay um hey before you do that Mike yes sir yes sir good to meet you Darren hey Adam it's good to meet you as well so we'll do this again yeah this uh I'm a fan of Warren so um it was nice uh chatting about that because I was going to mention you know Jordan's appearance on the show and then you beat me to it cuz I was overwhelmed I could not believe how much he sounded like his dad yeah when he's saying the lyrics you can't stop it like or you can't start it like a car you can't stop it with a gun wow I talk to him on the phone quite often and sometimes he'll imitate his dad and it is oh creepy but great but great well yeah well pass along my fandom all right we'll well we're gonna know guy we haven't talked about it lately we got to get Jordan on here as well we gota we got to do that finally after yeah he would be great he be amazing gu yeah we've been dancing around it for so long um there we go everybody that's why we do the show uh man that was a lot of fun I just appreciate this so much the first of hopefully many uh friends of the show episode so this is Letterman podcast 151 whatever it is 152 all that but friends of the show volume one is uh is is this episode um we appreciate every single person out there and uh check out the official Letterman Channel on YouTube check out check out Don Gill's uh channel on YouTube for Letterman archive stuff this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night you can start anytime oh I'm waiting for you to to say hi and and do your intro and I'm saying why don't you do the intro why don't you welcome everybody to the Letterman podcast oh oh I'm do the you take over the show man okay okay hold on overcoat and Underpants