Francesca Rollins Got To Use 30 Rock As Her College Playground

hey it's me John Beckerman and you are watching the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum and coincidentally I am Mike Chisum that's your bit right that's your bit that's my bit doing your bit thank you welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum all right I'm excited about this one we had a few months ago we had Hillary Rollins on the the daughter of of of Jack Rollins one of the daughters of Jack Rollins tonight we got her sister we got Franchesca I got the kid sister on Franchesca Rollins spent a lot of time around 30 Rock during the formative years of Late Night with David Letterman she spent a lot of time behind the scenes I actually thought that she was a I knew she had a crew jacket and I thought that she was actually an official intern turns out she just spent a lot of time there uh but we she tells a lot of stories about that and of course many stories about her her her dad the legendary Jack Rollins um my I talk I talk a lot about Jack on this show um because I'm fascinated with this guy I really really am he is um the blueprint and a caricature of of of of something in pop culture in chiz that just really at the same time doesn't exist when you see a a caricature of of of a chiz guy with a cigar and a and and a racing sheet that's Jack Rollins and uh um David Letterman's I I would I think it's fairly safe to say David Letterman's first high power uh manager that he really ever ever had the one he gelled with anyway the one who really um somebody said to me the other day and I I mentioned this in the episode maybe even a couple times but but but the idea that Jack and and and others but we're looking at making the next Johnny Carson uh with Dave and what a what a concept that is um so so Franchesca comes on here and I mean she's so thoughtful and sweet and and I mean she uh allowed me to kind of we've become friends throughout this process and and and um I'm really grateful that Sheed owed me to kind of um she she opened up the door here with the camera on and I appreciate that very very much she's extremely thoughtful extremely sweet and and loves her dad to no end and and uh we have a lot of really cool stories here um mostly that focus on the early incarnation of the Run of David Letterman the early days and uh it's great to have her here uh the Letterman podcast is proud to present my conversation with Franchesca Rollins I've been looking forward to this for months I'm so excited Francesca to have you on here we had your sister on oh man we had your sister on um a while back and uh and and and we've been obviously had a lot of sideline conversations and things that are happening behind the scenes stuff that we'll um uh stuff that we'll reveal moving forward and you know what maybe some of the things we talk about today will be a part of those things what are we talking about who knows but regardless I'm so excited to have you on here uh the the part of Hollywood royalty of Showbiz royalty the daughter of Jack Rollins one of the daughters of Jack Rollins but also lots of uh relationship with late night with David Letterman and and and all sorts of things all of these things mashing together Franchesca Rollins welcome to the Letterman podcast thank you very much thank you for having me Mike I'm excited I'm glad we got to know each other I'm super stoked about all the things we've talked about up to this point lots lots of good stuff yeah um all right we're going to get to Jack's stuff for sure but I want to start with Dave stuff um when because okay really at the end of the day with Jack Rollins uh we can talk about this a little bit to kind of set the stage um you know they they they they discover this guy named David Letterman and they basically set out to make the next Johnny Carson in my opinion that's the way I see it um and and other people see it as well so they the goal is to get them on The Tonight Show they get them on The Tonight Show they get them let's get them a Morning Show they on the morning show The Morning Show doesn't work out let's get him a really solid holding deal the holding deal happens and then Late Night with David Letterman happens and everything changes and the magic all happens and a big chunk of that is because of how your dad helped shape some of these things where are you during that process do you what's your first memory of a guy named David Letterman coming into the uh right the radar of of of of of of you of your dad Okay so so I am in high school yep and Dave was originally with the West Coast office there who discovered him because he was working out here at the comedy store and other clubs in La yep and um and it was Charlie and Larry and Buddy who were you know brought him into the office so the first time I heard of him that was that was the situation ation MH um and then it was a lot of Halal because he was coming to New York that was a big thing and dad was going to meet him and um you know how was that going to go so there was a lot of sort of nervous chatter at home about that a bit um I was my sisters were out of the house at this point both of them so so I was um I felt uh kind of a uh an ownership in a way of the Letterman show I had I felt I I had access in a way that it's not that they didn't but they were already older and off having kind of their own lives Y and I was I lived at home uh obviously through high school but then I also lived at home through college and the College Years were NYU no Mary Mount Manhattan okay yep Y and um uh so I I lived at home but I had enormous amounts of freedom to come and go and do as I pleased which was wonderful but what I wanted to do really was to hang out at the litterman show as much as possible because why wouldn't I and um were you going to 30 Rock at this time because D Jack had an office there right he had an office uh and again let's let's set a stage here too uh one of the things that your dad uh was a pioneer of was the idea that a manager would actually be an executive producer of of of of of shows or or films or things like that and in a sense sort of helped from a revenue perspective I mean there's there's a couple different ways you can look at it but but really at the end of the day if the Network's paying him his fee then Dave or the talent isn't necessarily paying the manager fee on that because he's producing executive producer of the show and that was really something that he started it didn't exist before then that these managers or people who uh were in the creative space in that role would have their own kind of production deals this is something that he brought to it and so when Late Night with David Letterman began an executive producer credit was given to Jack Rollins including an office and you got to use 30 Rock as a as a as a as kind of a playground do I have that right well somewhat somewhat yes somewhat but I think the roots of this for my father father date back to cavid Y and the did Cavit show at ABC yep uh so he didn't have a specific office there but he was very much there uh on a very regular basis and I think for the client that was a natural the the idea of being the an executive producer and having in an office and being on campus so to speak yep uh was a natural progression because the relationship between a manager and their client is so intimate and personal that very often the clients um you know would would feel better to have their manager nearby it's like having their you know it's it's your squad it's your safety it's your it's it's your support system exactly yeah so um I think that that dad's experience with cavat influenced later um you know the need and the desire uh to be around for Dave and I think Dave also wanted that I think he wanted dad to be here be there you know when he came to New York um you know that was a a uh conscious choice to be in New York and be a New York guy and not a West Coast guy Y and so if this relationship didn't work it wasn't going to work and right um so it it did and and that I think Dave very much appreciated and wanted dad around in the early days later maybe not so much um which is also totally normal and reasonable y i I understand but certainly in the early days it it was a a safety thing like somebody here has my back Y and uh I I want to check in with them let's talk about 30 Rock for a second like I mean you know this iconic building that the stories that have been layered for generations of of in the annuals of broadcast history and and entertainment history and and and and and a lot of other histories too probably um you're you're just getting out high school and college whatnot and suddenly like is this the first time that you have spent time in 30 Rockefeller Center and did it capture you oh yeah for sure um I didn't you know I spent some time there I mean know by this point by the time the show was on I was in college as I said and you know and I was also busy um with college life so MH but if there was somebody on the show like my my dad would give me the heads up you know if he knew there was somebody going to be on that he knew that I wanted to see and then friends would always hey can you get tickets can we go I was always I was always bringing bringing folks over there I had a friend from high school um who I who I I don't know what her exact title was but I think get her a job on the show yeah and uh and she was very so so she was sort of a a conduit so I might go in and see my dad right say hello for a few minutes but then I would be hanging with Moren and Ed Hall and Robert Morton and you know like all the rest of the the family there was yeah the family yeah had going out and yeah hanging around the Green Room it was fun it's interesting here uh okay so so first off do you remember some of those names like like early on so and so's going to be on the show what are we talking about here are we talking about Comics that you would have known growing up because of Dad's in the business is it people who uh were celebrities that you you you just wanted to to see do you remember any specific ones um that you would went to go see well there were Comics that he had clients of his y Jake Johansson yep was going to be on or Paula Poundstone was going to be on and so he'd say like yeah come see you know uh you know come see them yeah great you know and sure I'd go in for that um the one that I remember the best was in the summer of 84 yep uh right after the Born in the USA album came out and he told me that Springsteen's band the E3 band was going to be playing East Street Band was going to be there and I lost my mind CU I already had tickets I already had tickets to see to see them I think they were doing six shows at The Meadowlands yep and I had tickets for at least one of but maybe two of them and I went to the to the taping and oh my God my heart you know I was you I walked in that down that Hall there was a little Hall with a makeup up room and the green room and then double doors that opened out onto the stage and that was where you you would enter Y and I'd go through there and then I could go up and they had like a few Chairs set aside and sit there for the actual taping and as I walked by you know I I poked my head into the green room and I was flipping out because you know there was there was there's Clemens there was Gary talent and there was I mean you know everybody they were all there I mean I was just and then so so that was something then at at the when the taping was done came out to I think I went to say again to say hello to my dad for a few minutes and I came out to the lobby and I'm I'm standing there waiting for the elevator yep and I'm standing there and I'm I'm standing with Gary talent and his girlfriend at the time and we're waiting for the elevator and so I'm trying you know to be cool sure you know and not be like a gushy freak so I I'm minding my own business and sort of make eye contact with the girlfriend and she makes eye contact with me and we make some small talk and how how' you think it went tonight and all it was awesome and you guys were amazing and then then sort of opened up I said you know I'm a I'm a big fan I'm going to see the show whatever Tuesday night she we're getting into the elevator she says well do you want to come see some you know you're welcome to come see some more shows when do you when do you want to come and I I was speechless and I was like really she said oh I'll get you as many tickets how many how many do you want when do you want to I tell what here take my number she gives me her phone number she call me tomorrow and then just come down to The Loft and I yeah it was insane so things like that happened I sat in the friends and family section at metal lands 3 days later and because of that moment at the the Letterman show at the elevator bank at the Letterman show I mean so many weird little well rified moments like that before we get to you spending more time there in the internship and all that sort of stuff and and whatnot like here's something that's really cool um you worked with Dave rowski right would you have worked with Dave rowski the writer maybe it might have been a little bit after your time I'm not sure but he's a writer after my time I was you were there early you were there early on for sure I was not working well you did not have internship oh you didn't have the internship there okay okay I just was you were just just there okay you were just there okay so there's a guy by the name of David reg galski and and and and he was a prolific writer on Late Night with David Letterman and he was there um you know second third generation in you know after the after di Jim Downey them left again to go back to he came in after that okay but he when he came in though he was a college student when late night debuted When The Morning Show debuted and then when late night debuted he was a college student and he literally watched the transition with the people at College who went from idolizing Show Business to now making fun of Show Business chiefly because of what Late Night with David Letterman was doing and how much it impacted the college scene it was the college kids that really lit the fire you were in college while that was happening did you see it happening around you and then knowing holy smokes my dad's a part of this and something's happening here oh yes absolutely and there was lots of talk about it it was the it was a it was a unifying it was the water cooler talk of our for Our Generation right it was did you see did you because we all didn't who had jobs that they had to get up to go to right we had in class and you could wander into class and be whatever so we could stay up late and watch the late night which we did because who so then the next day would be like did you see Dave last night y that bit was so funny and da d d d da and then of course then when dad started doing bits on the show then that became a thing and he started turning into a celebrity in his own right sure did they all did all your friends know that that's your dad at this point like is that a is that a known thing or did you keep it kind of on the down low that's really good question I mean I I didn't advertise it except to say that there was the occasion where I might be wearing my late night jacket which I did have and loved um and War but I wasn't I wasn't overt about it we had been trained yes as kids yes too very much downplay while at the same time uhuh also enjoying like we were also invited to invite our friends to things to include our friends and so yes so PE so friends certainly knew and um and I hope I was generous whenever I could be yeah um but I also was there was a fine line of humility and in I don't know how to no I I I you're trying to figure out a balance and it's a balance on a balance beam that really is unique it's a unique one that has unique curves and and and levels to it and you're just trying to negotiate the best way to do it there's part of that that that can celebrate these things and and really embrace them and enjoy them but at the same time there is that line well it's funny talking to the staff like the later generation staffs even the ones that went to to the CBS show and whatnot when they got their jobs um somebody made this compare I actually know it was Don Giller now that I think about it the at a certain part of of of late night the writers were of a certain age and then as Dave aged the writers many times stayed the same age right so so they're bringing on new younger writers and and and so now you're bringing on people who have an absolute like worship and reverence for the show and they have a similar balance that they have to uh they have to adhere to they they're like okay you know what uh this is the thrill of a lifetime it's the only thing I want to do it's going to be the highlight of my life and for many it has stayed the highlight of their life right but I can't show that I've got to be too cool for school a little bit I've got to yeah and so had a little bit of that too you had a lot of that it sounds like actually yes I had a lot of that I had a lot of that uh your dad um one of the things you know we're we're working on a project here and so I'm learning a lot of things about your dad and and and someone just said to me yesterday um you won't see a picture of Jack Rollins without bags under his eyes and the reason was is because he would stay at the comedy clubs to the very end he'd be out late all night he'd be the guy he was so dedicated to it and and and and um your sister has talked about how she fell in love with standup and she went down that path in a huge way uh for her uh because she was exposed to it uh so at such an early age um did you fall in love with standup as well and and and the culture in the in the comedy scene I did I did for sure but I um I wanted to be an actor I was also intimidated by standup yep um but I felt very comfortable in that world because we spent a lot of time in the clubs she waitressed um in the at the comic strip so she was really in it yeah and um and I was in it much more as a audience member and the family business kind of a thing more than more than anything but not okay I gotta but it but it was fun but again it was the it um because I had grown up in it uh and knew so many the players uh I could for instance um you know if we were out and about or bored of a Friday at midnight or whatever um I could say Hey you know let's go over to let's let's go over to catch and see see who's up see if they'll and I could go in and you know talk to Rick Newman and say hey can can you uh can you take me and my friend and he'd be like yeah sure come on in and he'd give us a table immediately knowing that's Jack's daughter like you're Jack's daughter at this point in this that's how you're viewed like everybody's like oh that's Jack rollin's daughter so make nice yeah did you ever find anybody that you ever uh put your dad put your dad's eyes on um yes yeah several times um not that it was official Hillary Hillary did that much more than I did yep um but I remember I I went one one night my friend Kelly and I she went we were in college together she was a singer and an actress anyway that's a whole another story anyway one night Kelly and I go to a piano bar on eth Avenue it's doesn't exist there any longer and there was a a comedy because she wanted to go to see this comedy duo of course I'm not going to remember their names they were hilarious two men uh one played piano and they did songs and patter together they were Tracy and oh hey keep going I don't remember anyway um I saw a comic there it was like an open mic night type thing and this woman came on stage and she was startling and hysterical and unlike anything I had ever seen before she was gentle and softspoken and very feminine and completely charming and disarming and I went home that and I took made note of her name and I went home and that night I told my father listen I just saw somebody tonight at this little piano bar on 8th Avenue and I think she's really special and you should see her and you should see her work he was always looking for comedians um and always had a terrible time finding finding him and I I said her name is Rita rudner it was my guess I wish I would have oh the way you described her I'm like I think you're talking about Rita of course I adored Rita growing up because of that her unique delivery was just picture perfect oh yeah completely unique and he did he did come he did actually come see her and he said he was like yes I I agree I don't know what happened whether I don't know if they ever actually spoke he didn't manage her I think she had management yeah um I think her husband or something I don't remember but it didn't work out but I remember that one time that he did follow up and actually agreed with me and was like oh yes she's fabulous she's she ever she's fantastic just out of I don't think it's I don't think this is the one it's not Tracy and Martin is it the no no okay they're Canadian so that's just that's that's where I was thinking it might have been they're a comedy duel from Canada but um anyway uh that that is that's Charming that like the feeling the unique feeling that you you would have seeing that and being able to kind of make a call or make something happen that's not something that most humans get like I mean sure we recommend our friends for jobs and things like that or whatever we use recommendations and things um boy what a unique place a unique Viewpoint that you had um you want to know about the flip side of it though yes absolutely the flip side is you know there were a a couple times where I was dating somebody uh I had one guy break up with me because he finally came clean to the fact that he realized he was really after you know seeking audience with Jack Rollins and it wasn't so much about that's a tough feel to swallow you know it has it's it's yeah and then there were probably some where you're like hey I'm Jack rollin's daughter would you like to have a never um you didn't have to I uh what what so did you know early on because early on you're obviously the showz family the showz all around you uh trying to say but we're just regular folk this is just something that we happened to do that kind of I know that was the environment that was um you know attempted to be a part of but at the same time you got bit by it early acting was something you wanted to do early on when I was six five seven I don't know element schach was it TV was it Broadway what was the what was the what was what B you you know I did a show in elementary school called The King's cream puffs and boy I don't know getting that applause was you know I could get a laugh I knew where the laugh was I had timing I had natural comic timing yeah which is not a huge surprise uh because my mother was a performer as well um and she's supported my father before his career took off so um you know there there was there was uh you know chiz in my blood unconsciously I guess so yeah and how was the response of support or caution from Mom and Dad um as you're letting them know about this it's going to turn into a therapy session let's do it ah um um I would say um it was also a mixed bag MH I would say it was primarily positive coming primarily from my mother who um who saw everything I did and who uh was a enormous supporter and a help mate and uh filled with ideas and who really should have been a producer in her own right um and my father was late to the party for me in that regard um and didn't really get on board until college and he came to see me in a show um a small a small thing that I did uh in like the little black box yeah at Mary Mount and um afterwards he said well he said several things one of which was not particularly complimentary I thought uh which was the first thing he said was um if you want to get a nose job I'll pay for it and but the second thing he said which for listeners I did not take him up on um the but the second thing he said was you know you you really showed me a lot a lot of promise and if you want to go to grad school for acting I think you you could really do it and I'll I'll support that wow so but that was already I was already 22 y you know um but really A lot of the support came from from Mom along the way so okay he wasn't around that much you know he wasn't coming to the to the Daily you know he was late night talking these are the late nights we're talking about like that's right he was either in the clubs or he was at the track yeah you know the character that is Jack Rollins I mean intim like you know uh um um there's so many people who have uh impressions of a guy like your dad that don't realize that it's your dad that they're imitating like he really is a caricature in so many ways you know the cigar and always the RAC TR the the r suit and always a suit and hard sold shoes there you go there you go and and and and and you know he really was a caricature he really is a caricature that exists in pop culture and it can kind of be traced back to him he really is you know the uh The Stereotype of the the the stereotyp typical old School Hollywood manager guy because he was that's the blueprint it was all kind of made from him old school and definitely not Hollywood old school New York old you you're right show business is where I was going you're right yes that's a better word for it than Hollywood old scho so I used to spend a lot of time with him going to the racetrack I spent a lot of time with him at the racetrack by the way did he ever win big did he win big ever um not usually but he also didn't lose big because okay no because he was this was the other very interesting part about him he loved the racetrack and by the way for the record not the thorough breads he did not go to the thorough bread track he was purely interested in the standard breads which are the guys in the sulky yeah like like the old old timey Country Fair races with the yep yeah why was that um I think because it appealed to his luk collar Working Man kind of approach the thoroughbreds were always that was Elite yeah those were wasps those were the people with money yep those were the east side you know was those were not his people and he because he was a he was just a shnook from Brooklyn you know so I would but and I would go to the track with him often and Marvel at the fact that you could pick him out of the crowd anywhere Yonkers roselt metaland hundreds people but he'd be the only person there in a suit yeah and hard sold shoes and a tie you know he looked like the the accountant the auditor for the racetrack or whatever and he had all these buddies friends there and they'd all be kind of these I don't know messy you know Rough and Tumble but he looked ever the gentleman well there there's a metaphor here a very very simple one that you know what was Jack Rollins known for as a manager he was known for bringing that absolutely and and there's a whole bunch of class uh you know um you know ethics ethics in a huge way never never poach another never poach a client like things like that but also the guy who was really good at taking the diamond in the rough and polishing it off and and and turning it into that diamond you know it's interesting the race sheet that he's looking at isn't the thoroughbreds but it's the it's the it's it's those ones that's correct and the reason why he never really the the you're exactly right Mike you're that's so insightful because the the his obsession with the harness track was living out daily working out in his mind daily searching for exactly what you're describing he the way he would handicap a racing form would be he never ever bet on anything that was you know a two: one or you know yeah whatever the favorite never never not with a gun held to his head never he he would look for that diamond and the rough yeah and and he didn't make a lot of money no didn't win big but he also didn't lose big because he only ever bet they used to have a thing called the Quin okay uh well first they were it was called a you could bet to win place or show obviously and then there was a thing called a uh oh God my brain is so dead uh uh you know where you would guess uh first and second okay and but then they uh started a new thing called a Quinella which meant you could you could it could come in first and second or second or you reverse second horse and you would win either way and that was a$1 bet so on a $1 bet how much money could you make you know if he won big he won $17 yeah that night oh he would come home sometimes despondent despondent I mean just lower than low and he'd say Jane H had a terrible night at the track just terrible and she'd say okay well what happened how much did you lose $6 for real and he was not he was not trying to be funny he absolutely was mortified that he had lost $6 but Woody won the Academy Award so you know it's okay but I lost $6 be like Jack it's $6 did you have a good time well yes okay so oh that's fantastic did you ever smoke cigars I have smoked cigars yeah yes they're awful I don't know how he did it he only smoked you know the story of why he did no please tell me the story of why he he was a cigarette smoker okay and he went to the doctor you know and the doctor said this stuff is bad for you and he's like but I'm I'm addicted and the doctor was once that just smoke a cigar you don't inhale them yes yes that was it he was like oh okay I'm a financial planner by trade okay and part of that financial planning business is life insurance uh folks who are cigarette smokers the cost is let's call it double the cost of insurance is about double if you're a smoker but if you declare on the application that you smoke you know a Cuban cigar every week or whatever you're not even classified as a smoker like it's it's it's yeah and it's funny because I smoke Cuban cigars I usually will I'll do one a month I've got a nice humodor upstairs from can Canada right so I've always been able to get Cubans no problem right and and Okay the reason that I got into it was because of David Letterman and I've always wanted to know did David let get into smoking scars because of your dad I think so I there you go so if that's the case thank you Jack I do love I'm gonna have one tonight I'm going out on the patio tonight and I'm having one um there's been a lot of Jack Rollins in my life over this last week and I'm actually GNA go out and I'm G to smoke a cigar I'm think about your dad tonight absolutely Absol not the first time I've done it either um but but it's fun because that habit that I have that it's not even a habit it's a it's it's it's a pleasure that I have it's an experience that I have every now and then uh tangental is connected to your dad and I didn't even know that up until this point here but I think I I always suspected it was the case um I still when I when I smell it I'm I'm I love you know I mean I hated living with it you know but now when I smell it I walk by I'm oh so nostalgic and I miss him um can we talk about Broadway D Danny rhods for a second here sure Danny rhod um um you know the scuttlebutt is is that it's it's uh you know hopefully we can we can go to the source and find out but the scuttlebutt is of course that it was inspired largely um by your father and you know I'm curious about your take on it you know it's never I I I would be interested to really myself to hear what Woody has to say yeah about that I I think it's probably more accurate to say that um you know elements of him are inspired him or were in there it's certainly not like an exact no you know obviously um but I would think even if it was unconscious yeah I'm sure that there to some degree he's in there yeah and then it was you know was really great that he got to be in it and that wood he asked him to to be one of the guys around the table you know Deli in the deli yeah oh God and Dad came home he came home one night and he said oh Jane I'm I'm terrible I I I've I've ruined the film i' I've ruined it they're GNA have to throw out all the footage it's just I'm so bad I'm a terrible actor and mom was like what are you he said oh and as what is true is that they did cut a bunch of his his lines he does have a lot of lines left he did have a lot more to start with and he probably is not a very good actor but but you know Woody kept some stuff in there but I remember him saying like oh I it's not my thing I'm I us to self-conscious anyway but we think maybe not direct inspiration but a little bit as the kids like to say a little bit of homage a little bit of homage there there there would be would be fair to say for sure and well hopefully we get to explore this a little bit more a little bit I think I think Woody had a lot of um I mean I I know that they really had a lot of love and mutual respect for each other that really was real and genuine and you know and deep I uh oh go ahead no oh I was just going to say and I think that a lot of my parents friends when they saw Broadway Danny Rose felt that it was you know that the character of Broadway Danny Rose was that that Woody was somehow you know that he's like this kind of a loser kind of guy yep you know an ambulance Chaser equivalent right and that he's not so classy and not you know arod and all those things that they thought my father was and they thought it was disrespectful to him and all this sort of thing but I that's why I say I don't I don't think it's a direct correlation I think he took sort of a kernel or some little elements and it you know created something else out of that well and how many stand up bits I mean you and I have been around enough comedy both of us to know you you way more so than me that that you see a comic up on stage and they take a little teeny tiny kernel of Truth and they start spinning a yarn sure and the yarn comes out of that little kernel of of of of reality of relatability and it turns into you know you know a fishing story at that point and and and so but the kernels and some of the things that Inspire these things to turn into that okay um I it's funny I I love stand up and I love going back and looking at the history of it I I uh I have said this in the past without necessarily knowing the Jack connection of of the development of Woody Allen but I've I've gone back and looked at a lot of the Woody Allen standup that available to be seen I really liked Woody Allen as a standup especially when you take into consideration the time and the place and and and where standup was kind of it's in its infancy in many respects I really enjoyed Woody Allen standup and and and I just the idea that that that your dad helped evolve him from who he was there on that stage to who he became it is it's gigantic it really really is yes it is it really is do you know this the story of how that all came to be I would love to hear it I sh love to hear it I would love to hear it from your standpoint Frances so Woody had a job writing a very good job he had a wife and a job and a life you wrote wrote for I believe Jack Parr MH um and uh was making a very good living and came knocking on the door he had heard of Rollins and joffy uh because of I guess Nichols and May at that point and Bella fonte and Felicia Sanders and Charlotte Ray and some other people and so we had gotten around and he had an office on 57th Street um we used to talk that he was we used to tease him that he was the mayor of 57th Street that was what we called him and um grandos office no not that not oh that was that one at this time it was a very modest second floor it was up a same street just up on Seventh Avenue down the block okay gotcha and um uh Woody came and knocked on the door uh looking to sell material um you know he had a bunch pages of jokes and things that he had written and he was looking to you know a little side gig to sell some jokes to some Comics as writers did in those days because standups bought material they didn't write their own material yep they bought jokes yep from joke writers that's how it went right so he came there to say you know do you have clients who might be interested in your material and dad said uh we don't um but if you would like to read me a couple you know while you're here I'm happy to to hear them and maybe I can steer you in the right direction or something like this so the story goes that Woody and Charlie was there too and he said okay sure and he he put his Pages up like this and started reading the jokes and Charlie and dad were falling out of their chairs they were laughing so hard it's Woody Allen delivery but you don't know it's Woody Allen delivery when you're just just reading and I said it then and just like then he's reading like this like you know like he's reading a grocery grocery list whatever it is and he had no no he had no abilities as a performer at that time he wasn't a performer he was just a writer Y and they they howled with laughter at the end of which they said look we think your material is brilliant genius but there's Dad said there is nobody who can do this material you have to do this material yourself and he said but I'm not a performer I'm not I don't do stand up and dad said I understand but but but that there's nobody I he said there's nobody certainly nobody that we no there's just nobody who's going to be able to deliver this besides you y and if you ever change your mind and you want to do this you let me know and that was it and a year went by you know um it wasn't an immediate thing and a year later Woody came knocking again and said well I'm thinking maybe you're right I'd like some help would you consider blah blah blah and that's how they started working together yeah and so during the standup years of of Woody your dad's already directly involved um in the how that evolved and then also there in the evolution to filmmaker all 100% 100% because Woody as I said because he didn't he wasn't already doing this and he didn't want to do this and you can tell he didn't want to do when you see video of him on stage where he is so uncomfortable it's fantastic it's he's grapping he's getting himself caught in the in the cord on the microphone dad said he used to have to literally push him on stage at night oh my gosh literally push him I said you can do this because he would go out on you know The Bitter End or wherever it was that to there'd be two people laughing Charlie and Jack every night and that's so disheartening for for a comic right I mean can you imagine every night you get out there and the same two people are laughing at the same jokes and nobody in the audience they stared at him they didn't know what he what this was because they were used to you know Henny Youngman and shecky green and yeah it was a different it was deal and and you think about guys like Woody car and some of these people who who started bring the individual voice to it um and again lots of parallels like lots of parallels like I look at a guy okay let's bring it back we're the Letterman podcast let's talk about Dave for a second I mean how many hilarious things have been said I used to be that kid you know and the times where you were hanging around in the hallways and and and and hobnobbing with these people that I just worshiped I used to be the kid that would try and articulate a qu something that Dave said from the night before and it doesn't work because only Dave can take that and sometimes it's a turn of phrase It's a switching of the punctuation a little bit it's a it's accentuating a certain word and and and it's completely unique and the delivery is from that person you know and and Woody Allen certainly has a style of his own and that can be certainly said for for him as well but think about another guy like Robert Klein and and and same thing like like like don't get me wrong I can recite Opera pimp I can I can talk about the Opera pimp bit and and and and it's it's phenomenal it's great but nobody says it the way Robert Klein says it and and it's it's it's Unique to him and it's interesting there's probably as we go down the list of people that Jack worked with there's probably a lot of people on that list who could probably say the same thing yes uniqueness he could find and spot uniqueness that's right and and draw that out and increase it bring it along as he would say bring it along dad would say that let's bring it along what are some other jais that's a he used a lot he used a lot of racing metaphors I one one activity definitely informed the other I can tell you because when a horse is coming along y it would be the same thing as if a comic were coming along oh isn't that funny yeah the development of their skill and their confidence yeah do you still hear his voice oh yeah what are some of the things that you hear well things like that like a phrases like that where he would say um he would use this term I use it I use it now I I used it with my kids when they were looking at colleges and I'm using it now working with yeah High School seniors in College counseling um for uh early decision phenomenon which you know was a binding contract and I always say and this is something the dad would say he would say well is there is there in the world of the racetrack MH it would be if there was a horse that laid over the field mhm that's how he would express it so I myid yeah is there a school that lays over the field then that's the one that you're applying ed2 if there isn't one there isn't one but it has to lay over the field it helps suddenly Focus exactly to where like like to laser laser sharpen the focus a little bit there's there's all these horses but is there one that that I don't know why where he got that from but there's there one that lays over the field and he would he would use terminology like that in the world of Comedy as well coming along um if somebody if a horse won something by a nose he might say the same thing for uh you know for let's say the Academy Awards like sure maybe they won by a nose or by a head or by a length did he ever get swept up he loves Show Business obviously did he ever get swept up by it or was he always surfing the wave he was always surfing it okay never he because when you say he loved it um he didn't necessarily love it ah he didn't he didn't love it he was really good at it okay he was really good yep and he in it he he or maybe he loved it and didn't express it in quite the same way he was never um it was about the work y it was about the finding the thing and doing the work and having the comic come along and making the deal at UA or wherever it was making and seeing this thing he enjoyed that creative process y but he was not the guy who was interested in the trappings right or who enjoyed any of the the part the Pomp and Circumstance that wasn't that didn't even yeah that didn't mean anything to him it didn't mean anything to him and and if that were had only been true for Charlie that would have been good but un sadly it was not the case Charlie was a good Good Time Charlie and it he did fall victim to all the all the trappings of Hollywood and pretty easy it's it's very easy it's very easy but one of the reasons I think Dad didn't well lots of reasons it wasn't who he was yep at his in his core at his in his soul yep and he never left New York right and he refused to leave to New York and he hated California so going out for the Oscars that was not a fun time he didn't enjoy oh my God he hated it and he was um he was adamant and very vocal about what he hated yeah um Rick sheckman told me a couple of stories about about about Jack traveling with Jack uh back in the day to the Emmy parties and things like that because late night you know of course late night gets thrust into this this Spotlight and it's it's it's like literally not ready for Prime Time Players kind of a mentality there they're just you know a lot of these people have got their heads down so so so deep in the sand as to what it is they're doing and then you know we do a show to LA and suddenly they realize oh the lineup is around the block for people who just want a glimpse of of of the show you know like um yeah your dad must have really been proud at the ascent of of what happened that's that's a question I want to ask because you know these Comics that were coming along and whatnot and he helped nourish this uh did he get proud of some of the these accomplishments that these people were achieving the way that a father would like as as Billy Crystal's career you know developed and and all these things start to happen is there a sense of of of vicarious almost parental Pride that he had for these 100% absolutely absolutely was that weird being his kid seeing that uh yeah okay yeah it is a little weird was it a was it a you know you know it took me till College to for him to even notice that I had acting ability like was there some of that there yeah for sure I used to always say that if I had I wished in some sometimes I would wish gosh if my father had only been a plumber you know I I would he would have he would I could get on stage whatever I do he'd think was fantastic yeah yard stick hell of a yard stick you're up against knew the knew the difference right oh God it was rough yeah sure of course and I had to share him ah with these people and these people were important people did any of them become family in your in your mind um that's a really complex question um well the stories about like for instance Woody he really was very much family in the very early days when I was very little so that's before I was really all that aware or conscious as as his career grew their lives even though their professional life was still connected their personal lives started to Veer right yep y but mom always said oh you know Woody taught you how to walk he was the one that taught you how to walk so you know what can I say so I guess that's sort of family like right yeah oh yeah and and we had special relationships with Robin and with Billy MH um that I believe was authentic mhm um but it was not in a day-to-day way yeah I feel you I feel what you're saying yeah but that doesn't mean that there's there's not a bond like there's it's a unique Bond connection that's there there's a connection there oh that's interesting yeah um but not not necessarily with with Dave by the way well well and I mean this is one of the things that I just I I I i' i' really like to explore like again the idea that um I was talking I was talking to Morty about this the other day and and and and you know when he kind of laid out the idea um you know that that that that uh that your dad and Company were basically wanting to blueprint and make the next Johnny Carson not blueprint him but make the next Johnny Carson and that was an intentional kind of a kind of an idea that they were doing with Dave I mean you know it doesn't doing that can be strictly professional it doesn't have to be beyond that but I can imagine that during those early years with Dave that there would have been a lot of Reliance on like I think about a guy like Hal gurny you know the thing I loved about late night so much and in the morning show as well because a lot of that crew just transferred over yeah is you have this Alchemy of old school show business at the highest level and then new Young Voices Young Voices and they put them all together and mashed them like two Play-Doh colors and and and and and to make a new color completely and your dad certainly in the former Hal gurnie certainly in the former some of these other people who've been around forever um you know but not so entrenched in the former that they're not willing to look at new and creative and and and okay let's take this and turn it on its ear and it's just interesting to me how your dad was a part of that and the role he played in that there were times when some sometimes to be honest he'd come home and be like I don't know these folks yeah they think this is funny I don't know to me it's absolutely sophomoric but whatever they think it's funny I love that okay do you remember an example of that like do you do do you remember of an example of anything that happened on late night where your dad was just kind of I don't get it or just like well yeah like when they would throw drop stuff from from you know drop things out the window or from the rooftops he be like what what oh that's like pranks we did in junior high school that's the level oh that that that warms my heart so much he's shaking his head at what the kids are doing like like that is just but riding the wave when the popularity takes off with it obviously okay oh yeah sure get on board yeah yeah of course I mean he got on board enough to do bits on the show which which he really had a fun time with he did he enjoyed that oh he enjoyed that you know Broadway Danny Rose not necessarily the the funnest experience but he enjoyed doing the late night bits oh yeah those were absolutely Sil you know like you know with Biff y or Chris Elliott or whoever was being called in y yeah he he had a good time doing that he didn't do him that often but now and then yeah he was part of it he was part it was fun it was fun for him he had to join Afra yeah for that there you go completely tickled him he was now a union member um when you were there did you know Merill at all uh I did not I think I met her once or twice I didn't really know her so who were some of the people you talk about Ed Hall and by the way I think maybe I did tell you this when I was in Cali I have Ed Hall's late night with David Letterman jacket I have his original Late Night with David Letterman jacket someone gave it to me I like I I I have that crew jacket you still have yours do you still have your crew jacket I still have my short right on oh that's excellent It's one of The Originals right oh yeah um who are some of your running buddies at uh from from there that you you enjoyed spending time with I remember po oh let's talk about Bob Po Mark carsen is gonna be so happy right now and and and and Bill Shortridge are gonna be so happy right now as talking about Bob Po uh tent remember P yeah really talented guy a lot of fun yeah I remember PUK I remember Ed Hall I spent a lot of time with Ed yep um Rick of course yeah um and what's her name um who left to become an actress in her own right she was the most bubbly wonderful assistant um oh my God I'll come it'll it'll come to me okay other people have talked about her I'm sure oh okay it'll probably come to me too I I don't know who you're referring to early days uh mar Mario Mario Mario Donnell oh yeah okay yeah absolutely Mario Donnell yeah bubbly so fun I adored her um Jude you and Jude BR I that's a person I I there's a few people who are in the in the annuals of these people that I'm scared of Jude is one of them I'm intimidated by Jude just by reputation I'm totally intimidated by Jude I would have Jude on in a second if I could to perfectly Frank um Rick gave me an email list and and contact list some of it's accurate some of it's not I don't you know some of it's old or whatever um I actually have an email for Jude and I haven't dared to email it I'm just I don't know what it is I'm intimidated by Jude I I don't blame you but but drop Hillary's name my name dad's name yep I think Jude would be a amenable that would be a phenomenal conversation I mean the perspective Ive from Jude about everything is one that fascinates me to no end yeah Jude came to the funeral and came yeah back to the house afterwards hung out y I think you could do that Jack died um in the same year he turned 100 right yes he He Turned 100 and then it was within months that he passed yeah we had a he turned 100 on March 23rd 2015 and we had a party on April 8th yep for him and everyone came kleene by the way kleene is another one I want to mention who's who for sure feels like family oh I'd love hearing that that's fantastic I mean I'm Facebook friends with him and you know we're I I was when kleene I I'll get back to that yeah just one second just a little tangent know please illustrate because I would feel bad if I didn't mention this but when I was 10 uh Robert co uh guest hosted the David suskind show for a week uh and one of his ideas for one of the show was that he wanted to talk to Youth of today and he had three kids on me uh Keith Gordon who I knew and was friends with who lived up my block for me and who later went on to become a actor and director and another kid named Clarence something and I don't remember his last name or whatever happened to him but anyway he had the three of us on and we talked with Robert about uh zero population growth and um pollution and all you know whatever it was so we go back he and I he still has the tape of that somewhere from when I was was 10 years old so yes Robert feels like family back to my Dad Steve Weiner by the way uh who I adore more than like he's you know Shey connected us way early on and Steve and Lori and I are just amazing my wife and I like we we they're they're they're they're family to us we just adore them so much lovely guy I love listening to Steve now Steve only wrote for Dave for a year but he can actually go into Dave Letterman uh voice uh with things from back then uh but it's it's not as fast not even close to as fascinating as to listen to him going to Klein's voice it is amazing listening to Steve suddenly his Cadence changes and he can come up with like modern lines on the on the Fly that are in Robert Klein's voice and that is a to me that is just endlessly entertaining I'll never wait to see wait till you see Klein's in uh imitation of dad that he does at the funeral it's classic hilarious does I ask what had more laughs which had more laughs the party or the funeral where were they're born I can imagine hard to say that yeah exactly you know that funeral is actually kind of Legend it's it's one of those legendary events that that that that that happened um but the the the party also his 100th birthday party also you know considered that way as well the party was amazing yeah and everybody came Woody cavitt kleene everybody came it's amazing and then that was April 8th and then he died June 18th so yeah yeah yeah yeah but unbelievable Legacy truly amazing story was this will give you a clue okay okay yep so my mother was gone already and I was home for a Christmas vacation and we're sitting you know Dad and I were watching television and Dad's like 90 he's 97 at this point mhm and I say to him gosh dad you know you're looking your 98th birthday is coming up 98 wow that is really something huh he said yes this I said wow what do you think you gonna aim for a 100 he doesn't miss a beat he looks at me with disdain and he says but what do you think I'm gonna aim for 99 I thought yep still got it yep and still with the dialect of the old Showbiz dialect you know that's a perfect that that that that line could be uttered in any decade from the 40s on you know that's great that's a great think I'm gonna aim for a 99 who does that um I want to talk a little bit more 30 Rock stuff if it comes to your if it comes to your head more Letterman stories that that sort of a thing and and I do want to I do want to move to when you know and and and and uh I believe there's there's irony attached to you know The Parting of the ways and things like that I believe there is it's it's it's an ironic thing in in many respects when you zoom out and look at it but um I do want to talk about if there's any other uh you know fond memories that you have from the Letterman show that uh that have popped up in your head knowing this past couple weeks is that we're going to do this today anything else that has popped up that you that you're remember fond times there I mean I you know Dave was a little intimidating for to me yeah so even though there were I I was there he knew who I was um and he would say hello briefly I never felt kind of entree y with him the way I did with so many of the other clients so I kind of there was a a sort of a distance that was okay yep um so my my good times my fun times hanging out there were not with him yes of of course and I think that that's a something that many people would say as well you know our show is about Le Letterman and Company and and and the company many times to me are are and don't get me wrong I believe David Letterman is the greatest broadcaster in history I really I I truly do uh but it's David Letterman company because the company that were around him yes were at the highest level at whatever it is that they did from their perspectives as well corre your dad being a chief example of that and they were all to a person really warm yes and friendly it was as though all he was allowed to be kind of chilly and on his own because everybody else could be so personable and that was a good balance and he's the host he needs to be the guy he's the guy he's I mean Dave has said it throughout his entire career everything rests and lays on on on on him and what he does in his performance and all of that stuff um but the support team that he had around him was just uh astounding um when it got to the end you know we're at this place where where where and and this is a question I would love to ask him uh I've asked many people around it you know with with with cameras off and and whatnot you know the irony of ironies um you know there's this very very very uh strong narrative that everybody seems to agree on that David Letterman did not want to politic for The Tonight Show he talked about uh a meeting that he had with Johnny Carson's lawyer uh uh Mr bushin where they came along and they had this idea for a succession plan and and and and um you know he's very been very public about this and and and once he found out that Johnny really didn't know anything about it he's like don't let those people come in don't let those people ever have a meeting with me ever again again um I do not want in any way shape or form to dishonor Johnny by making him think for a second I would betray him including that you know that from everything I've learned the idea that saying to Jack Rollins who's instincts are always to help grow his clients but to give the instruction don't put something in place with the Tonight Show don't politic for this job don't do this that's the narrative that's kind of out there M but then when the time comes where the the issue is being forced suddenly and and here's the part that I kind of love about this when I think about your dad you know Letterman moves over Mike Ovitz and and and CAA and now what we have here are an old school the guy who really created the blueprint created the whole industry of of of of of talent management and then you have people who kind of came up after him who went really big with it and and and took that blueprint and and did something with it and and you've got this sort of Mike Ovitz comes in and gets Dave the big CBS you know uh off job you know after being courted by countless suitors as to where he's going to go next and there's a split that happens and and and I'm I'm curious if you have any insights onto the split and how it made Jack feel at that time uh yes I do um felt it was a double-edged sword for him okay in some respects he was happy to be done specifically with Dave he's passing the Baton yeah I mean he he you know at this point who was he working with wood he and Dave mhm you know he didn't have oh he had some uh newer clients who were Rick Reynolds was uh had made a a run and Jimmy tingle had made a run um but neither one had really taken off and now they had both sort of receded and uh and he was getting older MH and you know he didn't want to work that hard or be having to go in all the time or on the phone with Dave or whatever he didn't want to do it that that much anymore and and so on the one hand I think he was relieved to be relieved of that responsibility yep on the other hand I know that he was also hurt mhm and was somewhat bitter about feeling he felt squeezed out he felt that that he was not given uh a respectful way out a comfortable way out that it was sort of like um that there wasn't a great deal of gratitude or acknowledgement um that it was just kind of like well thank you well there yes of course thank you for everything you've done but I'm G to go this way from here on yeah in this direction which is fine that's his was his right and his you know it it's perfectly fine I think that Dad was you know felt that a little more he wasn't quite ready to do it he wasn't quite ready to leave on his own gotcha I think he would have liked to have had made that choice of his own accord right um and if he if Dave had been gracious enough to sort of have him come along and he it would have happened naturally he would have eased himself out of there yeah but I think he felt you know a little disappointed and I that it happened the way it did absolutely and I mean I think about you know you go back to to you know what you're describing here um and everything I've talked to you and Hillary and other people about like back with the split with Harry bellonte that was a dramatic hor like like there was a lot of real bitter tears and and and and and and things with that compared to this one here where it's like it's so like I find I I love irony is my second favorite literary device I love irony so much and and and it's there's something almost ironic here where you've got the old warhorse that that that that really and and again um you know uh self- admittedly gets really excited about running when it's developing young Talent when it's taking the rocks and turning them into the diamonds and and and then at that point there the Diamonds shine and they do their things but but really it's not a matter of okay now we shine the Diamond up that much more now it's kind of business as we go and Dave was at a pivotal career U juncture right where you had somebody coming along who had really fancied themselves as taking the diamonds and now really shining up the diamonds and presenting the diamonds like like like to me as awkward sometimes as a baton handoff like that can be it certainly wasn't the Harry Bellon split that in that regard and and you know so so I hear where you're coming from and I I just wonder if Jack when he saw Dave who didn't get the Tonight Show that always what he wanted but he basically got to take Johnny Carson's deal and sort of take it to CBS and extend it and grow it and make it this big thing and that's because I think that was probably oit's speciality yes you know there there must have been I just imagine I wish I could ask your dad if there was some sort of professional kind of like yeah right on like like a little bit of oh that's cool like you know I mean think if I think he probably felt that I if this had all happened when he was a younger man yeah that he might have been the one to be able to do that y but at the juncture where you know how where he was I think he was I don't know how old he was when oh in 93 he's still he's he's what 80 he's in his 80 he's older than that yeah there we go you know so um he's old yeah you know well somebody even said You Know Jack was old when he when he started working with us like like you know how same thing I get the same thing for how like like like people said the same thing right um but experienced and and and at an expert level of experience you know I'll tell you something interesting now that we're talking about it I'm thinking you know when the whole bellante thing you know went when the biography came out and the documentary that was uh 20 uh 2011 I believe and I went down to my bookstore down here and I walked in and there was a big display of the book and okay so I pick it up and I go straight to the index yep and I find dad's name a few times and I read the straight to those pages yes okay fine I read R read and I get to this one section which is about uh Harry's um a stint in Vegas mhm and this is the story of how from Harry's perspective the how and why his relationship with dad ended MH okay was about this and it was about this big agent I forget the name it wasn't Mike obitz it was a you know yeah Swifty Lazar or somebody you know was somebody Swifty right on okay I don't know some big Hollywood agent a great who who was a heavy hitter yeah and who had the juice to uh put Harry into a have him do you know whatever it was two weeks in Vegas or whatever it was yep and how this was the juncture at which he had to dump the loser Jack Rollins because he was a coward he used the word coward wow and he he was he's like this was over his head and this was he couldn't he couldn't have negotiated this deal for me and I think and I was very you know angry at the time thinking like wow this is 60 years later and this is what he's still mhm you know this is how he interprets that but now when I think about that perspective M and I think about later on this moment with Letterman and Ovitz I do I it does make me question actually if there is a kernel of Truth in that not that he was a coward I would have never used that word to describe my father in any way anybody who I have talked to says that your dad and it's multiple people now at this point say that your dad would stand up to anybody about anything that he felt was was worth standing up to and it was his yeah that's like that's a Hallmark of people who knew Jack and the things that he yeah that might be true heard that the idea of coward is so it's a strange choice of words for him but but I do wonder if there was sort of a like a finite point for him like a Line in the Sand where it was like I'm this is what I do and this is where I can take you and I'm maybe perhaps not the guy to take you or I'm not interested in that exactly as you said like I'm I want to take the diamond the piece of coal yes yes and find the diamond yes and somebody else can put it in the glitzy setting gold setting that where it wants to it I'm looking forward to asking this is this is a Hallmark question that I am looking forward to asking multiple multiple multiple people um because I think the perspectives are all going to be uh very interesting but I think they're going to be pretty much all the same perspective you know when you think about this idea of this guy again I love the description yeah you'll never see a picture with the bags under his eyes because he spent so much time in the clubs and he didn't go home he spent he was the guy who would stay there later than anybody else he was on the hunt he was like a blood hound he was on the hunt looking for those pieces of cold that you're talking about like like clearly that was something that he was passionate about and and and and could see that he was he was good at um but again yeah it just to me it's just the irony like Ovitz doesn't exist if it's not for Jack and the blueprint that he created and you look at William Morris how big they like you look at something like like the WWE and the UFC are owned by a company called TKO that came from Endeavor which is management F like like like this all goes back to your dad and and it's just it's ironic to me you know oit went on to run Disney after like like crazy crazy stuff and literally just kind of following the blueprint but bringing uh a modern You Youth Vitality to it for sure but you also have so you needed you needed the Jack Rollins and the you know whoever else to Y to pave that way but then you also need the kind of hubris and ego to be that person to then go on to run Disney and think that you can and so yeah this is something that would have been an aneema to my father like yep there we go there we go yeah it just would have been just why would you you know and why and no you would never have in a thousand years have considered such a thing so there you go um from the very start of this show I I think maybe the first time I might have mentioned it might have been to Steve O'Donnell early on and in one of the first you know within the first 20 episodes uh I might have mentioned it to dreon whatever I have always had a Fascination about your dad my very first conversation I had with Rick sheckman was about your dad it's the very first conversation he was talking about the plane ride episode and and and what he and your dad were up to during the plane ride episode and and and and and that was that was one of my very first conversations with Rick was about I love that picture I can see him right there from his from his memorial um his his niece gave that to me um at the end of the memorial and and it's this this show doesn't exist without shy it just it doesn't exist without him and and uh I will never I I it happened it happened during an episode Franchesca during an episode it it came to me that I had now been doing the Letterman podcast longer with him gone than when I had been doing it with him here him helping me and it it me up like it really did I'm just he he is just what happened what did he die from it's complicated um well will just use broad Strokes uh he had collapsed and he had been found um probably a day later and in that time yeah and in that time I think some things had set in and and and the body just kind of went and shut shut down is is is that's how I would describe that as best I can and feel it's appropriate for me to say it but yeah it was uh I I literally talked to him the day before he was found on the phone and the last thing I said to him was I love you and it was it was just one and Rick and I were like like I would say that because I a big cuddly as you know I'm a big cuddly like relationship that's who I am right and Rick is very much not that guy um and and and so there were times where we would be talking on the phone or something I'm like oh Rick thank you so much I love you man and then it was like this little That Awkward thing that guys have you know where it's like you know oh hey brother hey yeah back at you yeah yeah yeah it was we had a we actually had a couple of those a few of those along the way and I always I always liked them but but he had been sick and and and and and he was about to go on a on on a cruise and the reason I phoned him uh was I had an episode with uh uh uh Jeff Martin and and and Jerry Mulligan on at the same time and and I I I phoned him up and I said hey man I'm gonna send you the zoom link just in case because he always said never I'll never come on the show but he he I know that there was a part of him where he thought he would like at some point like it was it a little bit of he was my consiliary he was my Tom Hagen and and love that um but he would play with the idea oh maybe I'll come on this week but like he would say that and and and that's a good invitation I H H you know you know um that's uh but I called him up and I said okay I got Jerry and Jeff coming on in 15 minutes I said but I know you won't come on but I'm gonna send you the link anyway he's like well and and and I said uh but tomorrow you're jumping on the plane to go to Florida you're going on a cruise and it's your first trip again since the the pandemic and all that stuff and I just got to say Rick I hope the sun heals you and I hope that you feel like and and I just I hope it's a great trip and I dude I love you man I just thank you so much and I love you so much and he's like ah we'll talk soon and and and that was it the next the next day he was found that was on a Tuesday on the next day he was found and and and and then it wasn't very long in the hospital after that but um jeez but he had a reverence for your f i I mean and think about it like when you think about the copile that Rick was of course you would have reverence for your father you know like he had reverence for your dad yeah and um it was the first thing he and I ever talked about when when when we went past the online thing it was the first thing first story he ever told me was the story about your Dad wow and uh I've been fascinated uh ever since and hopefully this is a path we will continue to move down we've talked about a little bit on the show here we're we're we're we're we're trying to figure it out um to get this out there to yep whatever that looks like so um can I just as long as I have you just do you want to get off of this and then I'll tell me some other stuff and do do the business of this other of the other project or Franchesca and I are gonna talk business uh so we're gonna we're gonna end the show just not for your ears yeah not yet hopefully hopefully not yet um I just want to say thank you for for for I I I've really really really enjoyed becoming friends with you and Hillary like it's and Steve and like I feel like you're all just uh family and and I I Adore both of you I adore you very very much and and feel the same way oh thank you so much for this and and thank you for I know this isn't something that might be your favorite thing in the world to do and so I just want to say thank you very much for letting me take advantage of our Dynamic and you coming on here today and and sharing some of these things it means it means it means the world to me Franchesca it really really does uh we'll do you know what stay on here while I do the outro the the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only it is hellodd deli.com rert G may not own the hell Deli anymore but he still owns hellodd deli.com where you the only place where you can get official Late Show with David letman merchandise mugs and hats and shirts and all that kind of stuff so go on to hellodd deli.com uh it's all throwback it's been 10 years since Letterman signed off the last time for late night almost from The Late Night show uh so it's throwback stuff I just saw a shirt a picture this week of Miles Teller the actor Miles Teller and he's wearing a lake show with David Letterman shirt it's on a boat it's so cool to see that uh go to hellodd deli.com that's where you get the shirts and stuff from uh this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum that is Franchesca Rollins um coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants