Wally Feresten Is Cue-Card Late Night Television Royalty And Has The Stories To Prove It!

you're watching the letman podcast with Mike chisen endorsed by the hello Deli yeah welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum uh really excited about this guest uh Wally fiston Wally fiston has been in the epicenter of New York show business for 34 35 years um he has worked at 30 Rock got hired in 1990 by a guy by the name of Tony Mendes Tony Inky Mendes uh and and and Wall-E I don't know if there is a if there's a more influential um person in the Q card business than Wall-E at this point if there is I just if you ever watch Late Night with Seth Meers uh Wall-E is featured as he's a character he's a device that Seth Meers us see this is the thing about late night there's so many people right now that that like like to kind of throw stones at the current late night offerings and and and and uh because you know thinking about yester year especially with Letterman um or maybe that's just the echo chamber I live in I don't know but that being said there's a lot of folks who think oh Late Night with Seth Meers really isn't late night it's not the it's not the franchise that Dave built well there are elements that have survived one of those elements being um Seth utilizes folks um in the production of that show as on camera Talent you know you think of the the writers that he brings on jokes that Seth can't tell that segment which is in my opinion a really uh fresh great segment that that that that talks about where our culture is right now um and and other C other crew members as well Wall-E uh the qard guy has been on Seth many times and Seth and him and and and he have a really nice Rapport uh that relationship was built over the years because Wally basically when Tony Mendes hired him while while he was at Saturday Night Live uh Tony went over to Late Show when Dave left and Wally ascended and and was working Saturday Night Live and was working Conan and all of these other places and has a crew of of folks and and in ' 04 actually started a qard company and does all of these shows and in fact when Tony Mendes left late show um and Todd took over that's one of Wally's employees um you know it's a very interesting story and goes into all of it now that being said I'm going to grab some Q cards Wall-E actually has a qcard company uh very very smart how he did it Q cards by wall.com go to qcard by.com and he will customize a q card and send it to you so this is a this is a q card from Dave he immediately when he saw it recognized it being a joke uh one of Tony's and and and you know if you ever wanted one of the the uh um you know probably the foremost qard uh person of all time to write a joke to write something for you uh for a friend to put it up on the wall that sort of a thing go to Q cards by wall.com super super cool uh I'm gonna get we're going to get to the episode right now because it is way better than me just talking uh the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only and that is hellodd deli.com go to Hello deli.com if you want to purchase uh Late Show with David Letterman official merchandise um yeah that's it please enjoy the Letterman podcast featuring Wally fison okay Wally fiston I uh I'm really really excited to talk to you today thank you so much for taking time out of your insane schedule to come onto the Letterman podcast I know this is your last day off you're going back to work where are you going back to is that Seth that you're going back to work or where no we we this was we had a week off from Seth this is our first week off since we came back from the strike y so since um September no since October uh 2nd so this is our first week had a week off from Seth I go back to SNL tomorrow yep with the lovely Emma Stone hosting for the third or fourth time maybe yeah it was wonderful we get along great she's a pro I'll have an easy week I'll definitely I like hearing that I I can't wait to unpack a whole pile of this here we're gonna get to Letterman stuff everybody don't worry we're gonna get to Letterman stuff but at the end of the day Wally um I just love the fact that I get to pick your brain about stuff this is not going to be the only time I ask you here because I'm a huge Saturday Night Live fan as well as of course uh all the late night stuff from yeah uh from from what it was just Carson and Letterman all the way to when it mushroom clouded and the late shift and all of that happened it seems that you've been kind of at the epicenter of all of these things I'm gonna start with an SNL Letterman question Letterman's never been on SNL of course there's the Paul schaer connection and whatnot yet the two orbits of these two uh Powerhouse uh franchises seem to be linked up I mean there's the Jim Downey connection and other connections too but do you find that as well being in the epicenter of it a lot of SNL people also are also Letterman people yeah my brother was one was one of those of course yeah he wrote for both shows started at started at but you know Letterman was why he got into the business in the first place but we won't talk you're gonna get him on later so I'll let him tell his story but yeah no without a doubt especially being in the same building two floors apart and that's when you know when I started and stuff and it was just you know um I think Will Forte was a writer on Letterman too right he went to SNL tons of connections and I know when I when in the back in the day when when Farley and Sandler that's when I started on SNL if Dave didn't have need the guest they could just call up and somebody from SNL would come down um they used to do that Conan did that as well so they so they you take advantage of people in the building Seth still does It To This Day Late Night with Seth Myers he'll if a guas cancels or something happens he'll get one of the news people in the building or SNL somebody like that or I I filled in once even as a guest too so that was fun so yes it's all in the building and I've been around it since 1990 so I've seen a lot I don't remember everything you know but but it's been a lot yeah how could you remember everything because it everything is like you you're you're not exaggerating everything is big in in in your world there um let me ask you this every time I go to New York uh there is an energy around certain places in New York I mean the whole city has an energy to it but 30 Rock certainly has it and there are so many people who um are just absolutely Blown Away by that place you've been there for you know 30 years uh does it still have Majesty for you or is it just the office okay 33 30 going on 34 and it I it is it's the weird thing I get to brag that um I've been there that long but you know because I my run New York City Q cars I have my own company I'm a vendor for these shows um I have free office space there I have under the bleachers in 8 that's my area I keep my supplies there all my you know that's where we do the work for SNL we do the work for Seth and then you know that and Jimmy's downstairs that's where Letterman used to be downstairs but I basically have rentree office bace of the most expensive office building in the world maybe you know for for for so long I I don't I should probably stop saying it because they might start thinking about charging me for it but um I don't think so with the you know it's so cool that this part of your career um you know I I I know show business is something that you wanted to get into it was such a cool thing you got into it and how it's evolved for you over the years is just astounding uh Seth using you on camera as much as he is and and you're you are a character in the show and the cool thing about that I love about it is you have history with the original oh there's only a couple people I think it's just you and Jay Johnson I think you're the only two people that yeah are are are currently uh with late night that franchise that David Letterman started and you have roots in the original franchise of it the original franchise of it using these uh support players as characters in the show I current incarnation of Seth Meers many people don't think it has a link but that is a link right there to the original franchise and you're one of those guys did you ever think you would be one of those guys like the the Chris Elliots of the world or the Jerry Mulligans or whatever no like I watched the show in college I went to Syracuse and we used to watch every night we' get stoned and after we did all our work and we we watch the show and no none of my wildest dreams I mean that I think I would bect not the character just working on the show was like not was beyond my wildest dreams my brother was was just starting out there as a writer um worked his way up you know joke writing jokes at SNL and he got hired and no not in my Wilder dreams I was an actor in high school but I always wanted to write writing was the thing I knew acting was you can be the best actor in the world but you're never going to get discovered you know so um I never aspired to it I like doing it I like being on camera but um this is the greatest thing I'm I'm getting all these parts and I'm doing all these parts on I've been on SNL I've been on 30 Rock I've been on you know on all these shows and now I'm on set so much I'm I'm in I'm in sagaa and I'm I I'm one year away from a pension and I never have to audition for it you know the writers just write me into it and it's and it's the greatest thing in the world and that Seth trust me to do these parts without you know I see the script I see my part maybe two hours before the show while I'm writing a closer look while I'm writing the SketchUp so I have no time to prepare um uh a little time and that he trusts me to do a good job and that he keeps on trusting me is you know puts me over the moon but no never in my wildest dreams that I think I would be a character on on the show never it's so it's so great like and and I think a lot of folks you know a lot of folks uh and they do this with everything you know they did it with with with with with Letterman and Leno oh yeah but it wasn't like Carson or par or Cavin and all that uh uh people do the same thing with the current crop of late night they think about the yester year and I think a lot of people throw the baby out with the bathwater when they think a lot of these franchises don't have some of that magic that is a key ingredient the way that Seth uses his writers and brings them out and use them in bits that are fresh you know jokes Seth can't tell things like that using you and and and other uh devices like that it's such a great thing to see uh the way that I want to I want to start this thing asking um you know you've got coar and these other guys that are now using teleprompters and whatnot a lot of folks talk about oh the Q cards are still a thing you know it's not just a forgotten um you know heirloom to this thing there's there's a lot of work that your company is doing yes we were like I don't know maybe five years ago I was busier than I have ever been yeah uh I was doing Conan on the west coast with guys out there and I had uh you know the tonight's Show with Jimmy and I had Seth and I had SNL and we were doing Amber Amber's show on peacock that was on Fridays um and so much more I was doing stuff in Florida I was doing New Year's Eve shows I was doing you know parades it was CRA it was crazy um the main thing is a lot of the offshoots for late night in in The Tonight Show they worked at Saturday Night Live and they grew up on Q cards they didn't have teleprompter we didn't have TP it was all Arts so that's what they feel comfortable with Cen was like that and it's just and I think they real realized when they got their own shows it's somebody to play off of Seth certainly did Dave Dave did as well Dave you know with to Dave and Tony and Dave early on with Kevin k um and I don't know do you remember TC Laughlin I don't know if she was on camera a lot or not but she was between Kevin and Tony I believe yeah I worked with her on SNL um so yeah they have this history of doing that in in Conan as well so yeah um it's just what they know they're comfortable with it and it's a fun thing for the audience to watch as well it's part of the show kind of if you listen to strike Forest 5 uh and I hope everyone uh who who watches or listens to this show has uh because it is certainly a better show than this one uh Wally gets to mention I forget I think it's I think it's in episode five I think where Seth talks about you and Q cards come up uh and and Seth you know make some great jokes about you and and whatnot but then Jimmy uh Fallon tells a story about when he was hosting it was a it was at the emys and the teleprompter went down yep and and now what so so I remember now see I remember this I was watching in my home I was watching because Jimmy I'm a fan of Jimmy I'm a friend of Jimm's I was like I'm watching this and my wife's sitting next to me and we see him come out and see him freeze and say the to promptu is out and I'm and it's for you know 15 seconds which is an eternity when it's the first thing you're supposed to be saying and it's just and I see that how uncomfortable it is and he he doesn't know what to do and I turn to my wife and I go my my company has just been solidified for the next 10 years because Lord Michaels was Lord Michaels was in the audience for that and he just it just it was a it was a this is why we use Q cards this is why we don't use prompter for live shows like this that's why I was like H we're set go buy go buy a sports car honey we're we're good for the 10 years um I want to go back to to to how it began uh because people may not make the connection immediately that you actually do have quite a few ties um to to Letterman you started working for Tony Mendes I did yeah Tony and how did that all transpire so I moved to I was in California I went to Syracuse for uh writing and I wanted to write so I moved to LA after four years in the cold Syracuse weather it didn't get um uh any real leads out there so the girl I was dating was from Boston she wanted to live closer so I said well we can go to New York and she's like all right let's go to New York so we moved to New York and I was looking for work I couldn't find work I got I had a job I no I didn't I was working at a golf course I think that was later but I was trying to find work and my brother was looking for you know people that were hiring he's keeping his ear open at SNL and and Letterman and stuff and um I got a job as a bike passenger I didn't have a bike now mind you okay and I don't know New York City at all but I just need to I want I need to work so I said I called him up and I said hey Spike can I borrow your mountain bike you know he's like yeah why I go I just got a job as a bike messenger I need to you know use it he's like yeah yeah sure come on over and as I hang hang up and I was I'm heading to his apartment I was on the east side he was on the west side he calls my mother and says you got to call wall and and tell him make him not take that job because he's gonna get killed I didn't know the city but he's he's playing a good guy yeah come over and get my bike so I came over got his bike rode the bike home I get home and my girlfriend said oh your mom wants you to call and she wouldn't let me off the phone crying in tears you can't take that job you you're going to get killed your brother told so he ratted me out to my mom and I think he might have felt guilty and like that a few weeks later I got hired at a golf course but then he said hey they're looking for a qard guy to hire and I said great did you recommend me and he was like no he's like I know your handwriting is terrible and I was like let them tell me that my handwriting terrible he's like all right fine so he brought me in and got me the interview and um the interview basically is printing up cards you know you go in there and you write cards up and uh I wrote about 10 cards and it was it was bad but I think because Spike was my brother they said we've seen worse let's give you a shot and they you know they hired me did you do the interview with Tony yeah Tony and Kevin were both there yeah and I was basic they were just they give you pens they give you some instruction and then they let you you know you know fill it out and print some cards and they said they seen worse um I think they were being nice um yeah they hired me and and I almost I should have been fired Tony wanted to fire me he did early on was terrible Tony was a stickler Tony he ran a tight ship in that SN out show you had to run a tight ship or or things get didn't get done you know yeah so my printing was was not great and he was embarrassed by it like you you know if he saw printing on the that goes out to the floor even if he's not holding it and he sees it he's embarrassed by it because he's representing this he's the department head yeah so I think he wanted to get I he wanted me to screw up so he could fire me so the first show I held six cards and I'll never forget it was for sprocket sketch it was um Kyle mclin was the host and he was it was and Mike Myers was doing a sprocket sketch and it was the first six cards of the sketch and I was the only one holding it nobody else was now if in in my in in today's world if I hire somebody I would never give them the first six cards of a sketch with nobody else holding it never in my wife so he did that Kevin stood behind me I held the cards I did it perfectly I went backstage Kevin was right there Kevin was like I've never seen anything like that before I go what what are you he was like your entire body was shaking yet you held those cards perfectly still and you held them perfectly and then the next week he gave me three sketches this was another thing I was on a ladder I think I was lying on my stomach and they were heavy sketches like 40 50 cards and I did them perfectly and I think that's where where it rang in his head that oh he can hold really well this he can be an asset in holding maybe his printing is not so great we'll work on that but he can really help out the floor and that's a big deal with qard timing for some reason I took to it whether it was my the Athletics that I did as a you know as a kid it was a hand eye coordination whatever it was I I just took to it I loved it it didn't bother me I wasn't nervous and I did it well and I ended up being an asset and it saved my job and I've been there 33 years because of that yeah wow um okay so at that point uh like you've got your own company now and let's what's what's your company New York City Q cards New York City Q cards we started in 2004 and 04 you started that okay that's what I was gonna ask so back then uh you're all employees of NBC at that point right no no we're employees of a company called video que and know Kevin K's Uncle owned it um in California they had they ran a Tonight Show in California and they had Letterman and SNL um in in New York and Kevin was just starting out at Nickelodeon as an executive but was was um or maybe a few years after I started but then was was still working on Saturdays and keeping an eye on things for his uncle um on the on the East Coast so I was basically working for Kevin that's a guy I sure want to talk to boy talk about a success story in the entertainment business oh yeah yeah like oh my goodness uh uh you know where he where he came from to where he's gone and and whatnot and I love that so many of you have those stories you know your brother has it as well and just the the different evolutions of things we talked about yours a little bit earlier we're going to talk about it more um so is it a union thing are you guys Union no I'm a vendor I'm considered a vendor okay so um you kind of fall through the cracks of of some of the uh I don't know what you want to call it the politics or the bureaucracy or the uh you know the system that is set up within the entertainment business you guys kind of fall through the cracks a little bit but are again as we said earlier at the epicenter of it um so Tony and Kevin worked for this company um what was some of the first lessons that that Tony and Kevin gave to you to say okay this is what makes an effective qcard person and are those still the laws to this day is it is it something that it hasn't evolved very much when it comes or has it changed there's there's been a few changes but ultimately Tony because I said he ran such a tight ship in ship Tony to my knowledge came up with most of the rules we still use today on SNL and the shows I work on the the the the reading on the reading all the sketches on Saturday morning before we start rehearsal the it's it basically it's constant it's it's rule set up to catch mistakes that we make or that the writers make so that it doesn't go out to the floor when you're going to air it with mistakes it's just constant checking and double checking but yeah Tony set up most of the rules and we use I would say 90% of them to this day because they were so good and so insightful and everything that he taught me you know it's B it's basically just it's just basically when you're on the floor you're acting professional you're always you're not just looking at the cards you're looking at the actors you're looking at the other qard guys to get if someone's out of of a place you're looking at the cameras there's all these things going on that you have to be aware of and um and then you know if it's an easy sketch you can just enjoy it and you know there's not a lot of moving Parts you can just kind of enjoy it but yeah Tony was really remarkable and set it all up and um he left after the third my third year and I took over the show my after my third season when there were other people there that had way more experience than me but Kevin and the show's producers picked me to run the show because of my poise and not panic attitude when things when things got crazy and crunch time for some reason again I didn't panic I just I could look at it I could you know I could visualize it we could make the changes and get it out um really fast so that's what got me to that's what got me to run it so yeah but so Tony was a key part of everything and still is um I uh appreciate hearing that and and and you've got I've got a couple questions uh one of them you kind of alluded to so I'm going to jump to it and then I'll go back to the narrative here um can you enjoy the sketches can you enjoy some of the things that are going on there you alluded to it a little bit um did it take very long for you to be able to have that kind of awareness as your uh you know your your your background senses keep your awareness there so you can be present in seeing the material um or or you know did that take long I enjoyed it right from the start because I mean I was 25 I was working with Adam s and Chris barley it was a man it was a ton of fun and you know having it grown up watching it from when it started in 75 as a 10-year-old it was it was amazing I was all when I took over there were probably about three years four years where I was not relaxed at all was panic mode because you're learning how to run that show and that takes like three seasons so it was rough trading new people trying to get them on the same page it was rough but once I get into a rhythm and once I had guys working for me that knew what they were doing and I could trust them to make changes and do things then I get relaxed a little bit more and then I can enjoy it yeah the thing is too I'm be when the sketch airs on Saturday night for the live show I've seen it rehears probably six or seven times right so unless it's something really original and really funny or something happens that's not supposed to happen yes I'm usually not laughing at that point I may be smiling because the audience is laughing because I knew they'd laugh at a certain point but I've seen it so many times but there are sketches that I laugh every single time I hear the same a single line or something like that and I think Alec bald in an article that was written about me quoted saying when you hear w-e laugh off to the side you know you have a hit sketch you know because I don't give a laugh very easy especially like he says when it's the seventh time he seen it he's still laughing then he's like oh we knew we got something if Wall's laughing at it which is which is really nice compliment for them to say that makes a lot of sense um one of the things that you alluded to before is is is um you're not just holding the card you've got to be aware of what is going on there part of that is because many of the folks that you are working with like you think about a Seth okay this is a trained professional that has been doing this for years understands exactly um you know how to do this how to you know how to do everything there but SNL uh you've got an actor an athlete uh a celebrity somebody who is in the public eye that's there and I would say many times hasn't had any experience with Q cards whatsoever you're you're the guy that kind of works with the principal right you got a team of people but you're kind of that trusted person uh with the star of the show that week um you know so I assume that there's a part of you where you're you know almost doing it with them you know you're you're you're a support pillar uh for that person safe to say the the key word you already said it is trust trust I'm starting from day one when I meet them on Wednesday or Thursday yeah with gaining their trust that's what I'm trying to do I when I bring the cards out to the floor I make sure there's no mistakes in them not a word misspelled or a word missing because I want them to trust that the cards are going to be right for them I want them to worry about that if there's like a line missing and we have to stop and I have to go put it in I lose a little bit of trust you know like oh could that happen on Saturday in their head they're thinking you know so I'm just trying to gain their trust I let them know we'll rehearse it with one set of cards I'll say your cards are going to be here main set but when you talk to this person you might want to play the cards that are going to be here so I'll go over that with them and then I'll say to them if you want to underline anything or or write rewrite something so that it sounds you know it sounds better for you or like that emphasis on a certain word or whatever yeah right like so so Adam driver's hosting next week I just found out today and he okay hold he's one of my favorite host I love him to death but he makes me work my ass off because I go in with his to his dressing room for every sketch and he looks at every single card and he under lines and he does slashes and he does he put say put this word on that line that'll help me and he do we do that and we we we were constantly changing the cards he's constantly doing that up and through Saturday so I work my butt off but he's such a pleasant guy and I love him so much that I don't mind it and I'm like really looking forward to see it them uh next week come back so yeah some don't yeah so it's great I I was going to say um you know I think it was probably his first time that he was on based on uh Star Wars um you know he does uh this is a good time to ask this question because this is another one that's on my list um the remotes the the please do not destroy videos um all of the you know the the digital shorts that kind of stuff do you ever work on the extras uh for these things as well or are you mostly just in the uh in the old days there was there used to only be like one remote per week so either I would do it or i' sign I would assign somebody depending on when it is um now that there's three most most weeks we just write the cards up and um they have an intern or a production assistant hold the cards up and they'll do changes on them and they'll do them they don't usually use them as much as they would in a regular sketch because they do it over and over again and right they have time because they have time to study their lines and learn their lines so they're just there kind of as backup but um wanted me like can't remember who maybe it was maybe when Mick Jagger hosted somebody like big like that when he was doing a one of the shoots they they asked if I would go and help and I and I I was like look I need to be here for a rehearsal I can't I can't you know I had to be or I'm working on Seth and I can't but I'll send one of my best guys there you know they once in a while they'll want us to do it but um for the most part you know know one they're just we we print the cards up and say good luck you know um how many people on the team um it rotate like 13 or 14 you know depending on the day I mean for I get I have three full-time working on Fallon and I have five three full-time and two part-time working on Seth and then SNL like there's three or four on Thursday but and then Friday there's maybe like nine or 10 because that's where we do all the printing and the duping of the cards then Saturday there's usually like 10 so a lot of the people that work on Fridays or work work on Fallon and work on Seth you know they just I interchange them and move them around and kind of thing like that um I know we're go we're jumping around a little bit we'll get back to the narve in a second but it's just it's the idea of how quickly uh the scripts evolve and how much they change and I mean I think about okay so let's talk about like when Seth was doing Weekend Update and and and there'd be a safon um you know or Stefon I should say You Know sketch and and and you know you'd see Bill hater that they inserted a joke or something like that like late yes how many times on a weekend update would you be updating and changing cards like from Wednesday to Saturday it must be constant we don't print update till Saturday it doesn't get okay so update's a different animal update so I have two guys that work just on update they're not working on the other part of the show they work on update on Saturday they start getting scripts around 1 12 or one the features first and then they get the jokes around 3 in the afternoon and they print those up so that that gets done all on Saturday that was just melany making changes when Bill would go get ready to go up there he'd leave and he'd be like okay we're set he's that and then melan be like I got a couple more changes for you and then he would put it and we didn't know that bill didn't know about him and then we found out we caught on because bill bill bill would start laughing and and he I was like did you know that chase like no I didn't know it meany but then it got to be kind of L and he liked to do it every time he did it so it was really fun it was really fun yeah keep them on their toes um okay so let's go back now so 1990 to 1993 you're with uh uh uh you're working with Tony you're working with Kevin it's kind of business as usual you're the new guy um at that point what what franchises was uh that company responsible for it was um it was it was uh letterin it it was on the sixth floor at SNL and then tonight's show on the west coast so I would I would routinely goit second you guys did you guys did cards for Johnny Carson no no um oh no I think video Q did yeah video Q did for um and for Jay for sure um um so I I'm pretty sure yeah I think I think so but I know Jay for sure yeah I don't know but I think we probably did if we had the account with Jay I bet they probably did sure um um so yeah J moved over in 92 93 is was when yeah so they probably did they probably did I never get to experience that which would have been amazing or meet or meet him but um so I would repeat go down and help out a letterman like like I do now like if there were short a person or somebody had to go somewhere I'd go down and fill in for rehearsal and I do the show again because I was good at holding so so they like that and Dave was very picky about who he'd wanton on the set because my brother was writing on the side I was instantly okay you know I was I was okay because my brother gave me clout without me ever showing up and then I I knew how to act on a set I went to Syracuse I went to you know I was professional that was the that's the other thing too you look for someone that's GNA act professional on these sets and you know Dave Dave was Dave was Dave and he wanted to have run a tight run sh and he wanted to know the people who were going to be around him and I think on like the first or second week I was helping out you know he tossed the football my way and I knew I was like oh okay he's throwing the football to me I guess I'm okay you know I wouldn't say anything you just toss it my way I catch it throw it back you know between bre were you holding cards at the time no no no no no he wasn't trying to throw me off I have a funny story about someone that didn't work out um this is a great story one of my one of my favorite stories um Kevin um there was this girl that worked for Kevin off and on um I'm not going to say her name okay she did Q cards for SNL a little bit when she'd fill in and stuff and they needed someone I was helping out at Letterman and she was um or maybe I wasn't maybe Kevin told me the story um she said he said to her look Dave runs a tight ship down there um don't say anything to Dave don't you know if he says something to you sure you know talk to him something like that but don't you know just don't you know go down do your job she's like got it no problem they walk out on set literally walk out on the set she does a beline right to Dave puts her hand out hi Mr Letterman my name is Liz oh my name my name's uh uh whatever I'll be doing your Q cards today and he's like oh oh great shakes her hand she turns away with a big smile on his face like to Kevin like what's the big deal and he Dave points at her and goes you're she's out Kevin Kevin's like you gotta go and she's like what I don't he's like I told you not to she was done she never worked on that show ever again oh that is so funny like just someone that just doesn't listen to like doesn't know common sense you know just common sense you're working on new show don't she just goes right she's like I'm gonna show you he's not he's a he's a cat he's fine Dave ran a tight chip you know he tried to water but um yeah I loved it down there I I it was having watched it in college and then go to work on it was the greatest thing in the world yeah I can only imagine um did you uh so like did you ever have any interactions with Hal gurnie sure sure how was there when anything pop up about HAL right now we're gonna do a little name Association near the end but but Hal gurn is one of the ones that I'm curious about he's one don't have any specific stories about how just just that you know when I was working when I started SNL Davey um Wilson was the director there yeah and how and Davey seemed like they were cut from the same cloth just I don't know if how smoked in the in the control room but Dave did and they just they just seemed like these old guys that have been doing TV forever and I loved it and I was like these guys are great you know they're grizzled veterans and um how was usually in the control room most of the time he didn't really come out to the floor a lot you know so um I don't remember any specific um any specific encounters or anything like that but I remember just being a great guy being really really nice you you talk about these you know these These Old School Showbiz guys and and I think Lauren Michaels and David Letterman um and and his people uh both probably have this in common you've got these two kind of young uh younger Cutting Edge um changing the face changing the franchise evolving things and they surround themselves of course with cutting aged people like that younger people but then they also have this uh this this this this love for oldtime Show Business and they put oldtime show business people and get them involved as well and I think and both both examples of that yeah and Dave what I noticed too very loyal very loyal you do a good job on his show you're there for as long as you want to be there you know what I mean he some of the people worked there for years and years and years and I think Lauren behind the scenes stuff is like that Lauren you get the best in there and you want to keep them there you don't want them doing anything you don't want them doing anything else you know I don't know if you're if you're still up on uh um on what Dave is doing now he's got his Netflix show my next guest needs no introduction and he's doing the long form thing now he's kind of doing the Tom Schneider Tom Schneider thing now um Lauren Michaels is one of the guys that I would love to see Dave go long form with it's it's funny how you got these two magnetic that you really haven't seen in the same room together really uh they talk about each other clearly uh outwardly have a professional regard for each other but it's it's funny to me that those two haven't interacted I would love to see Dave pick Lauren's brain and probably vice versa as well um interesting cats and you've had a chance to work with both of them uh talk a little bit about Lauren Michaels oh my god well first of all that may happen either with Dave or in some form the 50th is going to be next season the 50th anniversary of SNL so so you're going to see a lot of stuff like that with with Lauren probably cast members and all kinds of different things sort up I still think about SNL 40 to this day that was a phenomenal phenomenal hardest show I've ever worked on in I can only imagine yeah yep I'm already thinking about the because it's doing my job with sketches three times as long with celebrities five times as many celebrities in the sketch and watching you and I have to do it in a tuxedo with slippery shoes and it was the hardest thing I've ever done anyway um get the Sandpaper stand the bottom of them yeah Lauren I mean Lauren has been so gracious to me I didn't fully know him well as most employees until maybe my 10th year ninth or 10th year there um and then once you get established and you see how things work you know you start chatting you know occasionally he'll say hi you see him you know maybe at the party you say Hi and then it gets he you know he came down and sat at the table I was sitting at with with a couple writers and we we talked about our kids we talked about baseball he's very gracious you know I you know just I I you know the birthday gifts I get every year from him are are are fantastic and the when I'm sick uh the thing the the get well and the the the soup and the flowers he sends now and it just it's just you know he's very very a great great boss and a great man and still very very involved in the show and the key key key part of the show key key part of the show um um and he and he loves Q cards as much as I do he feels like Q cards are a part of the show and sometimes we'll have to do hasn't happened recently but sometimes we'll get a change so late like a minute before the sketch we do the changes in front of the actors on the floor in front of the audience Y and um he always watches and he came up to me at the party last time we did it and he was like I L seeing you on the floor tonight and I was like I'm always on the floor he's like no no on the floor doing those changes he's like that's the stuff the audience loves that they'll never forget and you guys do it so well he was like that's just it's just one of those parts that you can't predict what it's gonna happen but when it does he's like you guys are so good at it and um the audience loves it I mean they gave us Applause after we finished and and got up to do the cards you know as they were counting down 10 nine we picking up the cards together so um it's pretty fun yeah he's great I love him I as an audience member I haven't had the uh the SNL experience I know people who have of course and and talked to people worked on the show and that um and and it's a different show it was for Letterman too uh being in the in the crowd for for for a hot Letterman show was an experience unto itself you know where Dave would come out and he would say an inside joke that only the audience knew that kind of a thing SNL has that same magic I think that's another comparison that that that can be made between the two um even up to last week or a couple weeks ago I was watching one of the one of the more recent episodes since the strike ended and and uh you know sometimes it'll go out to commercial it'll come back and you'll hear the band playing you'll see them setting up the sketch and then it'll go out for another commercial and come back and and I couldn't believe it I said to my wife I'm like there's Lauren Lauren was standing right in the middle of it um and it was so cool to see him on the floor to kind of get a taste of that you get to see that every week and be a part of that every week um I mean long grueling hours insane stress and whatnot which you seem to be able to deal with um you're not tired of at all are you no no I'm people ask me if I going to retire what I going to do I I I my my pad answer is I'm Gonna Keep on doing it as long as my body holds up it allows me to read any stuff about um I do so when when SNL ends in May y um I go to a orthopedic uh doctor and I get a cortisone shot and I do six to eight weeks of physical therapy over the summer to get ready for the next season I consider myself should is it wrist shoulder my right my right shoulder and it's from doing this pulling cards and pulling cards this way pulling cards this way and going up and down it's that motion of doing that for so for for a long for SNL Seth doesn't bother me it's the SNL sketches that are heavy um so I do that every summer I I consider myself like a really bad like the worst athlete getting ready for the next season like he can't believe still working and um and it and it usually strengthens my arm my shoulder up and I get through till like March and starts hting a lot I I I limp into May and then I do that procedure all over again I get the Corone shot and I you know do the physical therapy I'm I have a doctor's appointment on Friday because my shoulders already hurting me have you looked at the stem cells yet no you know we don't even take X-rays I just go in and say cortisone shot I'll do pH Physical Therapy I'm good I might need to start I might need to try something new because it's hurting me in November and that's not a good sign for my shoulder so a lot of folks man shoulders and knees seem to be the one of the sweet spots for them stem cells it seems to really interesting yeah oh yeah Shoulders Knees elbows things like that yeah it seems to be the I'll ask I'll ask the doctor about that yeah maybe maybe you need a trip down to Panama or something like that over the summer I uh I want to talk about late night beforehand and then I want to go to the transition because I I can only imagine what your perspective would have been during um you know the late shift time and the time where okay yeah Leno is the horse uh Letterman you know limited time going to move obviously that shook the world that you were in at that point I want to get to that but before we get to that any other late night um because Late Night with David Letterman again this revolutionary franchise that you are still a part of uh you were there kind of at the foundation of it um in so so so I told you I used to watch we used to watch it in college every night we watched it we we would do our homework who our homework um we would get stoned and we watch the Letterman show and we laughed our asses off so when I graduated I was and I was living in New York City I went my brother they used to play softball with the summer Dave played as well Dave would come to the games and play softball absolutely I the athlete as well yeah he was great so I get to come and play a couple games and um Larry Jacobson that was one of the writers at the time um I don't know if you've interviewed him or not yet he's on my list I want him he was one of our favorites he was one of our favorites and the sketches always made us laugh and and we were we we swore like they're writing they're writing for stone people they they have to because it's making us laugh it's right at our wheelhouse so we're having we're having some beers after a game and I say L I got to ask you this I hope this doesn't upset you but we would w we watch your we watch Letterman we watch your show and we would get stoned and watch it and we swear like you guys write for stone people because it's really talk it's really speaking to us it would make us laugh and he was like he's like really Wally he was like did you maybe think we were stoned too while we were writing and I was like no that never crossed my mind never crossed my mind he's like well it it it happens and I was like that makes perfect sense thank you very much for clearing for clearing that up so that was one of the things I was like oh my God I'm so stupid but naive maybe because I was young 25 26 you know but it just made me laugh really hard and I was like oh I get it I get it now that it's speaking to us um and then I think it was still when he went to so he went when he went to CBS what was 90 he went to CBS in 93 93 okay I have a 9 po story yeah uh quick one I think yeah no no no um I went to um Woodstock 94 with Larry Bud mman and held cards for him is that interest you in any in any are you kidding me oh my God summer of 94 I get a call they need a qard guy to go Tony didn't want to go Tony wasn't gonna go and uh I was like who what is it he's like we're doing a remote piece with Larry when at woodst you want to go it'll be like two nights we'll stay overnight we'll do a couple we'll do things it's like of course I want to go I saw lar bed Melman he toured he did a tour when I was in college and he came to Syracuse in his D dingi Bar with these dancers these girl dancers it was the worst show worst show I'd ever seen but we loved it we were we absolutely loved it so then two years later I'm I'm going to Woodstock and holding cards for him which was insane alls I remember I think Dave Hansen the Dave writer I think Dave Hansen went with us I'm pretty sure it was Dave it was either Dave or Donna I'm pretty sure it was Dave and I just remember driving out there mud mud every was that mud Woodstock um the 9 inch nail set they went and played in the mud and then they got on stage and played I I'll never forget that n inch nail is one of my favorite bands I'll never forget that Larry was miserable the entire time he was miserable would did not want to be there um but everyone like we would just go we weren't going up on stages we were just doing little remotes like in different places with him speaking I was holding his car cards for him um and he was just reading straight from the cards no delivery whatsoever that Larry and um people loved him he hated it I think we left a day early because he's like I gota we gota I gotta get out of here I don't want to do this anymore it was like that thing but to me it was like my first time I traveled with Q cards and stuff it was it was amazing I just remember it being the greatest experience in my life it was so much fun uh shout out to Steve Wier by the way Steve Weiner uh legendary Letterman writer uh for the first first couple years he's the guy who discovered uh calber really uh he had him in his student film and and and and uh and US was he there in 94 was he still there in 94 no no no he was only there at the very very beginning um okay he he left and and Carl tman left uh they are the ones that brought uh calber in they left Calbert stayed that's how that went so but is also the guy who wrote the uh uh pencil through the or the the card through the glass with the glass breaking there was a viewer mail that that Steve Wier wrote so anytime I have a chance to mention Steve I mention him because that's awesome that's awesome love him so yeah so I did that so yeah so let's move yeah so what was so what was the question any hold on a second because this is interesting right here this actually marries it perfectly that's when Letterman's over at Late Show Tony had left by that point but still obviously you're in the business you're networked with each other it's a very small fraternity of people that do what you do and understand how to do it at that level um so when he left did he become an employee of of of pants at that point and and because they've owned the show uh or was that that vendor Company still the company that was being used for Late Show amazing yeah video Q was still in play okay so they not only did they get Dave's new show they get Co codin took over right was over there the late late night they get coded as well so they get an EXT they get a new they get a new show and then when Dave started Late Late Show they might have uh had you know Snyder or kilborn or whatever that might have been in play as well then potentially promp I think he used prompt or Kilburn okay okay and Snider yeah Snider was a different deal I don't know if SN so just Tony went over there and then that's when I took over SNL and I got crazy busy but you know we would help out and we would send people over to if if it was the same thing like it was one company like so Tony needed an extra guy or needed somebody else I we'd send him somebody over from SNL that I was working with and um it was a separate little thing but it still works you know it still worked out like one thing so did you ever work the Ed Sullivan Theater at all in the first couple years when the transition happened time I was there all the okay I was there helping yeah I was there all the time yeah interesting yeah what's I'm trying to think of my story um no I but again it was yeah if they need if Tony needed an extra person or if the P the second I don't remember who the oh Lauren eert maybe this guy luren Eker was there but if he couldn't work like if he went away for a week I'd fill it if I wasn't doing SNL if SNL was off they'd always You' always want to try to get like somebody with the most experience to go over there Tony wanted like the best to go over there so you'd start with if I couldn't do that he we worked out we always do it like that seniority kind of thing and Tony liked me so I went no I was there a lot and know my brother was there too so I wanted to go over there and like I always like to see him work you know you know go out there and again it was so Dave wanted somebody that he was familiar with um he he liked me so um that I think I was over there a bunch when was your first encounter with David lman um maybe throw the football you know like just throw like that I don't I didn't I mean we just again I I I know you know it's it's that thing maybe in you know I played like I said I played softball with him um I used to go to the Christmas parties as well I have a Christmas party story um we I was sitting with my brother and all the writers and I brought my now wife um as she was my girlfriend at the time I was I'm trying to went presser and it was down at the ice skating rink it was always at the ice skating rink downstairs and um they'd set up they'd set up you know open bar and I was sitting in the drers were doing tequila shots and I don't know who started it but I think probably Dave Dave threw food at our table um sitting there either to as a hey you guys are being too loud or hey let's get something started so they started throwing food back at him like rolls and stuff like that and I thought that was the greatest thing like oh my God we're having a food fight with David Letterman like that's like the coolest thing um um yeah I don't remember I don't you know having I I know I held cards for him too I know I filled in probably for for Tony like if Tony was sick or to couldn't do do something I know I filled in for him as well like I was up holding cards in his dressing room and stuff like that and he knew me really well just not that we would you know we wouldn't you know conversate you know it was just a work it was a work relationship and you know he knew Spike was my brother and that was instant you know cred for me um so it was always he was always nice to me and always um Pleasant and uh I would have never a bad thing to say about him he's he was like he was like one of my Idols you know growing up you know watching him I watched his Morning Show when I was maybe eth or nth I think ninth grade the summer after my ninth grade in high school I was doing I was at a summer course because I wanted to write and I my high school was really small when they didn't have any writing class so I went to summer school at the college next town over Monday through Friday we slept over and I had classes I think from 8 to 10: and then 11 one or something like that I had a two break and that his morning show was on right during my break so I watched that every day I watch and it was that was I was is the greatest thing in the world then they canel it I was like no I love this show but it was you know it was just the wrong time slot you know it was not ready for that that time slot but I I knew him then I knew him from back then it was amazing it was amazing you know what's really cool like like I'm 47 at the time of this uh at the time of this taping and um and that there's a there seems to be a commonality about folks who admire Dave and it it doesn't matter what generation it doesn't matter what grad class year you had uh you know whether it was 84 or 94 it seems to me that there is a consensus of people who were in high school looking at whatever incarnation of Letterman that they had and realizing that adults were allowed to act this way in this part of the of the world Mythos and it's like oh I I can act silly like that or I can be you know and and and I think that just that just appealed to a certain uh personality type or whatever it is because I I feel that exact same way the first time I saw him even though he was established in late night when I was nine or 10 years old so I'm at a sleepover I can remember and and that I would sneak up to watch these adults acting this way um I think there's just something about that it's it's it's it's keeping the childhood alive or something I don't know that's what well you know my dad was a was a my dad wanted to be a comedian but never tried to be a comedian it was really funny he was a Salesman and he turned us on to he turned us on to SNL and and Mel Brooks and Monty Python and stuff but also Carson so we would watch Carson monologues a lot and I was always find it fascinating that he always get laughs sometimes bigger laughs with the joke was terrible just for the facial expressions he was making and stuff like that but then so that was like you know my dad and my dad loved Carson loved Carson but when Letterman came on it was a it was almost like speaking to a new generation like it was because Carson wasn't silly like he would do sketches but it wasn't anything like what Dave Wasing and I think it started speaking to our generation and the younger people like my dad liked it too but not as much as we did like this is our guy this is our Johnny Carson he's speaking to us and it was and then yeah no matter how old you were when you discover them and then you start watching all the shows and stuff yeah it's just fantastic I think that's what it was yeah yeah I I could not agree more um let's talk about you and your brother for a second uh both of you uh don't seem to enjoy your given names is that fair two brothers both in the entertainment business both went off in these crazy directions uh both have interesting nicknames as their uh everybody knows him as Spike everybody knows you as Wall-E yeah I'm G to call my call my mom and I'm gonna have you ask her that question do you enjoy that your sons are called different names she hates it okay and and I'll tell so I'll tell you the good story so Spike was his real name is Michael yep he started at SNL Mike Myers was there Michael Shoemaker Mike Shoemaker was there as well yeah so shoe and my brother was the receptionist and they were like we're not going to have another Michael and Lauren Michaels whatever so he had spiky here my brother had spiky here at the time so Shoemaker said you're Spike and that's how we get the name Mike Shoemaker nicknamed your brother yes yes nicknamed my brother yes huh okay so we me and my brother shared a room growing up and I had asthma growing up yep when I had sick when I got sick I would whee with with the asthma so he as the older brother would do WALL-E the Wally the Weezer as a derogatory nickname and we were we were 11 months apart Irish twins so we had we had the same friends my friend group his friend group we all hung out together a small town and I first party I went to this is my brother Wall-E this is my brother Wally so so I was Wall-E in high school and I hated it I hat because it was a derogatory name you know he was wall it was it was really it was something that it was born out of hate you know born out of making fun of me yeah so I went to Syracuse and because for for the writing program but also no one from my went to Syracuse so I was Chris for four years at Syracuse I moved to LA I was Chris for three years in La so seven years I was back to Chris Christopher whatever you want to call me I moved to New York he got me the he got me the interview at SNL he brought me in for the interview this is my brother Wall-E and I was like oh my God Wall's back so it was back but looking back Chris the qard guy is way not as cool as Wally the qard guy it's not it's not poetically it is perfect like when Seth even on straightfor my or H guy Wall-E like the way that it just it just it has a it has a rhythm to it has a flow to it yeah so I fought it for seven years but ultimately my brother it didn't mean it but he's got good sense and he's got a good really good you know sense of humor and yeah Wally worked out for me pretty well I'm not gonna I'm not gonna deny it yeah the uh let's go to the transition for a second here um you know the scuttlebutt is Dave's leaving um you know and I mean if if ever somebody's been in a in a in a place uh a workplace where there's there's movement happening at the top of things you know the movers and the Shakers are moving and shaking right now and everybody underneath is like oh what's GNA happen that must have been a pretty interesting time and then the cast was shifting at SNL too like you talked about you know uh Lovitz and Hartman and Carvey and and nean and all those guys Miller but then the new crop was coming in extremely competitive lots of documentation on that you know with with with with Sandler and Spade and andley and all these other guys coming in to mix with the old crew um very very interesting time to be working in 30 Rock with all of that movement happening safe to say there were yeah there were just it was like rumors every day about what was going on what was happening and Spike would hear things you know being a writer on the show he would hear things but he was like I can't talk about it what I just heard and I can't say this or I can't say that this is going to happen and yeah it was it was it was any what I from one it was anything any everybody was talking about it even if they didn't watch the shows you knew you knew I think um my brother told this story and I'm gonna steal it if you ever interview with them tell he says he wants to tell this story tell him I already I already told it excellent yeah that sounds great can't wait to do that he was he was working one day they were in The Writer's room and I think it was Tom broka came in and um it was just after just after it happened because I think they were after the announcement or I think so yep y after the announcement or right before I think it was right after and um broke our K Bid And he was like I want to tell you guys a funny story he was like I was I was on assignment um uh in Africa and so I flew out to Africa and then uh we took a train to another place and then I had we had to fly this little pum to this really remote area we get out of the plane we meet our guide the guide says to be hey what's going on with the Letterman letto thing you know in the remote jungle of Africa people do not realize that's how big it was it was huge at the time yes blew me away that blew me away like holy y everybody I mean everybody in the world was talking about it it was such a big deal yeah so yeah it was big I I don't remember specific things I remember you get bits and pieces every day it's a different story like I said my brother would maybe tell me things once in a while that he heard but nothing was you know reliable you didn't know what was going on you really didn't know what was going until it happened it's neat that you mentioned broa because uh you know episode one um of of of late of Late Show you know broa is there and what does he do he steals a q card oh that's right this is the intellectual property of NBC um which I which I loved and and and that dovetails perfectly into something that I've got a couple guilty pleasures that I'm going to ask you about today uh two white whales uh that I would absolutely be in awe to have on this show one will not happen because he's passed away and I got to ask about him the one might be able to there's two of them nor McDonald and Brian Williams those are my two white whales uh nor McDonald now you're on SNL Tony's moved over you are now kind of the head guy for uh for SNL or it's becoming that way um you're working you work on update you do some of these things nor McDonald is now christened the host of Weekend Update uh during the OJ stuff uh uh uh the the top brass at NBC are not impressed with him um they fire him kind of pretty publicly as that happens uh he goes on panel on Letterman and talks about the whole thing while he's still working there um I am fascinated by that I talked to Joanna Jordan and a couple other people about that uh do you remember do you have any memories of of of that time with norm and and any Norm stories because I just absolutely adore the man well I'm gonna first of all I'm going to tell you um that um I used to write jokes for Norm because I wanted to be a writer Jim Downey was running update at the time so I would reverse this is this is probably when did Norm take over update did was it um do you know remember I want to say it's 95 99 ah it might have been 98 actually find that out though I can find that out so I was running the show at the time um I would work from 11 in the morning till 11 or 12 at night and then I'd go up to 17 from 12: to 4: in the morning and write jokes with Norm Jim Downey who they were Jim Don was producing and then they had all these other they had update writers and they had freelance guys a couple other freelance guys they they were gracious enough to let me go up there and write jokes what you would do is there were at the time there were all these AP photos that you could look at photos and see if he had a joke find a joke that was funny about the photo um if you wrote something funny you had to read the joke out loud in front of everybody around the table okay now this is after me working all day um but this is what I wanted to do and it was the most terrifying in the world I I think I probably get 15 jokes on with Norm um two of those jokes um were OJ jokes so I say that I'm responsible for Norm getting fired but I oh he must have been tickled by that well I knew he liked to read him so why are you not gonna try to pitch O.J jokes you know if you can write a funny one um uh so yeah so I would do that so I was in on the inter sanctum of of of all that and but Norm they didn't care they they weren't like the normal update guys they would always end an update with the worst joke or a controvertial joke they would rather get a gasp or silence then a big laugh to end if you go back and watch them you can see them they didn't care they were they love that they love that visceral reaction that doesn't have to be a laugh they wanted to get a visual reaction from the crowd so Norm didn't care so I don't doesn't surprise me that he would go out and tell toah I made a mistake once on I ruined a joke I was holding cards for him and he read the setup and the cards stuck together sometimes we tape up if they do a rewrite on it and the cards get it and it and it stuck to the other C and I couldn't get it out fast enough for him to read the punchline ruined the joke completely he never told the punch line ruined it I was I was like mortified I was so upset with myself and I mounted to him this is during the live show and I said like that and he was like it's okay Wally don't worry about it it's all good on live TV like no don't say you just made it worse you just made it but that was Norm he didn't care he didn't care about this was live TV he did not care so you know he wasn't going to be told what not to do and what to do he was going to do it the way they wanted to do it and unfortunately you know he got fired over it and he came back two a year or two later he was on I was doing cards for um I don't know what show he came to maybe visit or something and I asked him if he missed it he's like he's like of course I missed this this is this is the greatest job in the world he's like I screwed but you know what it is what it is you know he was the greatest to be he was so nice he was so he I mean he gave me my first break writing you know for jokes for him so it's amazing that is incredibly sweet uh 94 to 97 by the way was Norm's run on Weekend Update so I was yeah so I was 29 and I could only do that at that age you know yeah oh yeah staying up till four and then getting maybe five hour sleep and then doing all SNL you know maybe that's why I was so stressed out know because I was staying up to forting jokes I don't know go figure um let's talk a little bit more about uh about Tony he he obviously entrenching himself um at at Late Show I don't know again the hours that you kept if you were able to watch late show ever um Don Giller on his channel on his YouTube channel has uh the Tony Mendes I mean it's the ultimate Tony Mendes compilation it's like seven Parts an hour and a half on each one um did you get a kick watching Tony Mendes become a character on Letterman and scream at him and Spanish and do these things and all crazy crazy things unbelievable those it just yeah and it was so much fun to watch again he was so gracious to me he was doing all that stuff and a lot of times like like People magazine would come they we're doing this behind the scenes on people in business we want to put you in it he was like he like no no no my I don't do any you should go Wall-E at SNL and he would always recommend them to me and put me you know very gracious like that you know um no I it was so much fun watching Tony because I knew him personally and knew the kind and he he like I said he was a really strict by the book guy but he also had a great sense of humor and was really fun to work with and when there wasn't stress around he was joking around with everybody and um some of the things he did behind the scenes were were probably as funny as some of the things he did on on camera and keny aong who was a prod big longtime producer on SNL I would tell him these these these um Tony stories that Todd would maybe relate or somebody relate to me and he would just die die laughing he actually KY kept a clip of a newspaper article that Tony was interviewed for for for asnl yeah and when you're interviewed for an article for for SNL or something like that there's usually a publicity person with you or they say Hey you know nothing derogatory about the show Le on you yeah and Tony they they asked him oh who's the worst host and Tony just breaking this I forget who he said this person was the worst they were terrible they were did this they did that just just all out the window Kenny has that clipping he had kept it every day and just made him he just when he needed to laugh he would open it up and read that read that again because Tony didn't Tony was another one like nor McDonald he did not care yeah um one of my great story Tony stories from the later days when he was at Late Show Todd relayed this story Tony did Dave's monologue and basically that's all he would do he would he would work with Dave in his monologue and get his monologue cards and he'd get the jokes and he would print them all and he would go he'd be in his room all day Todd would do all the rehearsing down on the on the stage right um Tony would be with Dave all day yeah so Tony knew what Dave liked Tony knew how many jokes Dave liked to see Tony know you know whatever so one day um the two two writers came or a writer came and said hey we want to put these two uh new jokes in for the monologue and it was maybe two hours before the show plenty of time you know not a big deal and Tony and something I would never have the balls to do Tony was like no no no Dave's got enough jokes he doesn't need those now Tony's just a qard guy he's not a producer you know there's no no way but Tony's like no no he doesn't need to see him he's seen enough he doesn't like to see more jokes and he was like no no no we you know head we're the head writers we we want to get the jokes to Dave and Tony's like no no I'm not printing them up I'm not doing it so they went to Todd and Todd printed them up and down down in the other section where Tony wasn't and and Todd brought them up to Tony with the writers and and they said they said Tony here you go this for the monologue and he was like I told them no and Todd's like oh well I didn't I didn't know that and Todd Toon's like okay I'll give them to him so he's like so he grabs the cards and he throws them out the window the seventh floor window of the of the uh building out this out into like the courtyard and he's like I'm not giving I'm not giving to him and the writers just looked at him like what what's go what's going on and they walked away like they had no thing because Dave loved Tony and Tony could do that stuff and know he could get away with it you know he something happened where he didn't get away with it but that was something different he knew he was Dave's boy and nothing he could do would really get him fired unless it was really really really bad throwing Q cards out a window that's not gonna that's not goingon to the writers must have been very frustrated with but I told that story to Kenny and we both laugh so hard it's just like that's so that's so Tony that's the kind of guy Tony was he was just like yeah no no and he's probably right d prob didn't want to see him he probably wouldn't have done him Tony knows what he you know how many cards he wants how many jokes he has he's got enough jokes already he doesn't need to see those yeah that's Tony so many uh I've been told and so many stories about um about Tony Mendes Inky Tony Inky Mendes you know there was a contingent of people who uh uh started um the group is called alt fan Letterman and and there were the first kind of in you know the infancy of the internet these news groups would get together and and and they would have um Letterman related discussions and whatnot and in 95 they decided to start something called Dave conon and and they would all um you know make a pilgrimage to the Ed svan theater and do their thing and and um as the davec con grew uh g davec con group rather got bigger the one who embraced them it seems to be more than anybody at the show uh chiefly was was was Tony and Tony would create these experiences for them and he would give them a q card at the end of the show and um do these just amazing things for the people who really supported the show he really seemed to care for people and um and and and it's it's just a you know ran a tight ship like you said yeah but but also uh cared for people and and I'm glad we've had a chance to kind of talk a little bit about him we're going to get to Todd in a second um but I do have a qard question um is there a specific way that you train your people to print like do our are ours supposed to look the same you know no matter who's okay so there is a there's a there's a q card alphabet that people are sort of expected to learn the dialect of it on paper it's well it's Block it's block letters it's all capitals yep and there's certain ways to do like you know you draw you go from up to down you know like doing a d you go like that A T you go down you don't go up yeah and it so if you do it all the same way and when we're you're using these markers that are pretty thick so it's not like regular like you're printing with your with a pen or a pencil you're moving your fingers you're moving your hand up across the card you know you're moving your hand across the card like this so it's draw it's you're more drawing than writing we call it printing but it's really drawing the letters so yeah we train them the same way so to the naked eye a lot of people would be like oh this all looks the same I can tell that it's all different from a different person like sometimes we split a sketch up and five different people will write five cards in a sketch I can tell every person in it because it all looks different to me but to the normal to the naked eye that's not trained it looks the pretty much looks the same gotcha yeah um we get to 04 what happened uh how what were the series of events that allowed you to kind of start thinking bigger and to step out on your own and and and and start the company and and did that company your company immediately take over all of the contracts including Late Show yeah so what happened was to um Kevin was still around but he was rais he was Rising pretty quickly through Nickelodeon he had a pretty crazy trajectory that guy I can't I I would love to talk to him one day I just don't know if I could ever get to him because of how busy he is but it's pretty crazy what happened with him yeah so what was so so his UNC we still sent hours to him he would send his hour the hours to the uncle in La paychecks would get delivered to him at Nickelodeon we'd have to go pick him up it was there was no direct deposit back then yeah um and kept kept the busier you get it was it was taxing on him you know he was he was a busy he was a really big executive and he's still helping his uncle out and probably not for a lot of money he wasn't really getting compensated for it yeah so ultimately things were things were falling through the cracks like bills being paid and stuff like that and um our paychecks would bounce every other month you'd go to cash it and there wouldn't be funds enough to cash it and it would bounce and you'd be like hey I just did all this work in my paycheck bounds and it's not Kevin's fault it's his uncle who's not doing it and then I go to order cards I'd order from the supplier and he's like they haven't paid in three months we I can't send you any more cards I'm not you know so it was almost out of it was kind of forced on me um I didn't want an own own a company I didn't have no desire to do that I don't know anything about it my wife is in marketing in in the world she helped start her dad's company she was helping her brother do something she was all over it she was like I'll help let's do a business plan I'm like what's that so I went to the shows and I just said hey if I start my own company and it was at the time it was um Conan uh last call with Carson Daly and Saturday Night Live and Tony was very loyal to the company as it was and and they were in another building and he was like I'm I'm not want to get involved in this I'm just gonna stay with them and I'm like that's fine you know he was he I'll work it out with them yep he was doing having the same kind of stuff but he was very loyal to them and now it's all good but my guys weren't going to work for me they were going to quit because they weren't getting paid you know so um I went to the shows and they were like well you're the one who's doing all the work and all everybody that works at the shows worked for me so if he said no we want to stay with Kevin then all my guys were going to leave and they wouldn't have any department so it's basically they were fine with it but you know like keny aong was like make sure you do it the right way try to do it the right way and I probably didn't do it perfectly because I didn't really know what I was doing especially since so because I went to those shows I got a lawyer and I was like this is what I want to do and the lawyer was like how did you did you you said you talked to them before you started this company are you Incorporated and I was like yeah and he was like oh you know they can sue you and I was like really and I can they win he was like yeah they could win because of how what you did because again I had knew nothing about companies so I had all sad though because it's like common sense it's like okay start a company there's a need here uh well okay if I start this company am I you know you back on yeah I didn't want to start it and screw myself over it and lose the job and but I had all all the guys that were working it were gonna go with me so but so I what I did was I got a lawyer and then um um it's funny uh we um we reached out to um they found out they obviously they found out I told them and Kevin was very upset over it as as he should be he's upset for his uncle and um they brought me into a meeting and they said look U my uncle's really sick he's probably not going to be around for much longer when he dies we'll give you all the show you know we sign a contract that that's going to and this was so this was when I said 2004 right I think he's still alive um 19 years later I was like well I already have the show so that's not really you're not really give me anything I understand we'll give you what you know they were gonna offer me any salary I wanted and I was like I was like no I don't think that's gonna I go I'm gonna talk to you I'm gonna talk to him and I'm gonna work out a deal so um I was like I'm gonna do give him a buy out do I'm gonna you know do a buy out so I'm not like taking everything yeah I didn't know again I didn't know anything about that so my wife had met you know the name Rick Scott the the Florida governor Florida Senator yeah he met him on a plane ride down to Florida before he was in politics as he was a billionaire flying coach she sat next to him on the way down to Florida four days later she was sitting next to him again they hit it off we went out to dinner with him and his wife and he he she was talking to him about this is when this was going on so I we had a phone call with him and he said pay this amount do it over five years make sure they you know they sign it make sure they do a non-compete so they can't try to get the shows after five years back right kind of thing he told us everything to do and it was like the greatest thing and so we did it he never got a lawyer the Don who owned the company never got a lawyer he just had his account work it out I I paid him a pretty large sum of money we did over five years after five years I was done and the shows were you know officially my but at least I I I gave him some money for abs taking the shows away and you know like I said it was a bad time so I was really kind of doing Kevin I did Kevin a favor because once he got rid of that having to give us paychecks and do all that stuff he was you know it was probably the best thing that could have happened for him okay so that's that's that's fantastic that ited out that way and and essentially you know you became the uh the succession plan for that company and and and now you're you're still doing it to this day or 20 years after that um which is which is pretty crazy uh did so did you get Late Show then pretty quick um I didn't well no I didn't I didn't do late show Tony that was still video Q kept Late Show until Tony was fired okay that's what I was gonna ask because Todd worked for you and and I I want to talk to Todd I know you said you gonna hook that up hopefully Todd for time was working for video que and me so he was working for both companies so he was were still allowing that to happen like Todd could work for them but if I didn't want somebody whatever so okay then when Tony was Tony was fired they needed some they needed like one or two people to help Todd out right and I was just gonna send them over because Dave had already announced his retirement it was like a year maybe Y and I was just I was just like hey whatever I can do to help you guys out you want to need one of my guys two of my guys you know certain days a week not a problem I'll just I will figure out a bill a billing thing you know but I will don't worry about it and they were like no no no if you're gonna do that we want to give you the account and I was like look I really it's only you know I don't want to cause any issues I don't you know they were like no no it's fair video Q's kind of been a jerk to us lately and we want to do it this way so if you're going to do that we let's let's talk about we want Todd to pay this amount of money and we want the second they told me basically what they wanted to pay them the terms and what what yeah for and then what I then I could tack on that so I made some money and uh so yeah so I had the late night I had Late Show account the last year that it was there so that was that was interesting so I be so I had that show as well so um I had all the incarnations of late night um except for Dave you know so I had yeah but you still worked it um let's talk about Todd for a second because uh you know he he takes over for Tony you talk about a big Shadow to be in um now at that point did you did you train him to get into it did Tony train him I think I think he might have started over there with Tony yeah and then Tony would call me up and say hey do you need any help at SNL and I'd be like yeah you know what we just did lost somebody so like I this guy t for me can should work for you on on Saturdays so he would do that a lot and say that this guy taught is good um if Tony said that that I knew he was good you know so um that I think Todd started with Tony Tony found him somehow he might have been an intern first and then Tony you know brought him up to Q cards and then yeah then he started working for me and then he was working for me you know for for for for those both yeah does Todd still work for you he does he's on he's on paternity leave right now just had a baby with his wife oh congratulations to Todd the qard guy um and I loved I you know there's the the the famous uh video of him uh jumping over a conference table and things like that like like Letterman started using him as well including I believe there was a I believe there was a qard joke in the very last episode and Todd Todd got you know some he would go Todd would do a lot Todd did a lot of remotes he would go on he did went to the Super Bowl and interviewed people yep yeah he did a lot of stuff like that because Dave didn't want to go to remote so he's like send Todd send Todd to the Super Bowl and let him interview football players and stuff so Todd would go there with like three writers and they'd say go Todd go go do this go do that Todd would have ideas too and yeah Todd was Todd was really good at that I thought was really good at it um that's that's lovely and it's so funny again I'm gonna kind of Full Circle it as we kind of move towards the close so any other stories that you didn't get to that you want to say uh in a second here that'll be the time but um it's so interesting you know I talked to cameramen I talked to producers and and and and and the trades uh people you know in construction and set design and all of that and they're all Union and the union sends them to all sorts of different shows and different Productions and whatnot you got guys aren't but kind of enjoy that same privilege being able to do these kinds of things it's very very interesting kind of learning the ins and outs of this stuff here I really appreciate you kind of opening up the Playbook and letting uh our viewers and listeners know how this whole qard thing works um what a what an odd what an odd excellent life that that that you have built for yourself um getting to know some of these people one of the questions I have uh you know going back you have met I mean the laundry list of a-listers and and and just interesting people yeah I'm not just saying famous and celebrities and all that sort of stuff that stuff you know comes and goes and it has a halflife to the excitement of it you're clearly pretty streamlined when it comes to this who are some of the people that you have met over the years that you're just like yeah that's a cool person or I can't believe I met this person or interesting you know who are some of the people that come to mind you know it's just it's so many you know I mean and it's just it's like like was a big Rockford Files fan because he reminded me of my dad my dad passed away and so James G Rock files my favorite show I wanted to midle name my oldest my my first son's middle name wanted to be I wanted to be Rockford and my wife said no not a chance so what did it end up being Garner so she let me have Garner oh that's great only because he was five weeks early and we hadn't decided on a middle name yet so we had to go and I was like come on Garner and she's like all right Garner and um I met he wasn't on us and he was never on um Letterman when I was there or Conan but he was on Ros o Donell show one year after my son was born I think he was probably two and I knew the I knew the segment producer and I knew he was coming on I was like hey can I bring my son in and just meet him and I want to tell him I named him after him she's like of course yeah of course so so like like having that access so I went in I met him in the dress room and she was like she warned she like he's really old I just you know want you to I go I know he's old I've been following him my whole life so I went out to meet him he was so nice I told him I told him a story about wanting to name my son a middle name Rockford and he was like he's like you're an idiot he's like that would have been a hor name I was like I go yeah my wife agreed with you um so we named him Garner after you and he was like you know you know he's like you know Garner's not my real last name and I was like wait what he's like it's bomb Garner they made me change it when I started acting so you really didn't name him after me and but he was so nice he took a picture with my him and my son he was so gracious so meeting people like that the heroes of your youth yeah you know has been when I started that was like the greatest thing someone would come on an SNL or someone would be on Dave that I would see that I was a fan of when I was growing up that and that would blow me away here's the crazy thing now that I've been doing it for so long hosts are coming in that are saying like last week's host Jason Mamoa was on and he was the second time he hosted great love the guy we're very close yep he told he was we were talking about he was like when I was like nine or 10 I would steal a little black and white TV in Iowa I would go out to the porch and I'd watch SNL and I would watch Farley on SNL and I go you know that's when I started so I'm getting these stories now of these celebrities that are hosting that were watching it when I started doing cards for it yes and it's kind of blowing my mind a little bit you know yeah blowing my mind that's what's that's kind of that's been happening a lot lately um Kieran culan when he hosted I said you know I was there when you and your brother hosted and he was like you were and that brought us that gave us a connection you know so he was so nice and really nice sent me a really lovely gift um after in a lovely note um so that stuff is kind of crazy you know really really crazy the mccauly culan show with David Bo in tin machine way back people that we didn't have q cards for that show because he memorized everything his father made him memorize all his lines um we did have q cards it was you know we had to have q cards for the actors for the other for the cats course um but he memorized all his lines at whatever age he was eight or nine or whatever he was um and I think yeah yeah his dad made him memorize everything oh that is a that's a cool little piece of trivia right there right um this is uh I'm having so much fun I hope you can come back and if you do come back I will have uh many many many things prepared to jog that memory and maybe we do a good story and I want to do the plug on Q cards by wall which we didn't touch on but that's okay both and both yes if somebody wants to get a their own Q card personalized Q card I can't write live from New York and Saturday night I can't write stuff like that I can't write anything that's copyrighted but if you want a letterman something from Letterman like a character or something that you write yourself or something that eludes nothing that's copywritten I can write on a q card and give it as a gift for Christmas for a birthday for anniversary I'm I'm getting a lot of stuff I started this company Q cards by.com you can go to um I started this during P during the pandemic when people couldn't go to weddings and birthdays and anniversaries and it was kept me busy but it brought so much joy to people getting these this original gift fans of the shows that it was so heartwarming uh to me and to the to the people I get I've gotten I think 100% I've got not one complaint from a customer or a gift person that they and this isn't what I thought it was going to be and it blows my mind because really it's just marker on a on a card you know on a a blank card but there a cards we use on the shows and people can't get them and it blows people away so I'm still doing that if some wants to get one which is which is great I can send you one with your name and you can put it right in the background there do you have one okay well hold on a second because I'm going to do this right now hold on I'm gonna go off camera for a second and I'm gonna grab so this was a cut joke oh there's a joke y because Dave wrote Dave wrote them lengthwise like that yeah y so that's that's a that's a it wasn't it wasn't used on the show it was cut but it's a Tony Mendes uh C so yes right here I have like I love this stuff and and um what a very cool idea to do this I bet you wish you did it 10 years ago well here's the thing here's the thing again my wife being the marketing genius and and the entrepreneur I pitched the idea to her in 2019 and she immediately said nope nope and I was like okay and then we're sitting three months covid in and I'm doing nothing and I'm getting fat by by by doing nothing and she's and she said I think I want to start another company CU she was bored too even though she was worth and I was like how about that Q cards by Wally think and she's like yes Now's the Time to do it because people need this and she was right so I don't think it would have worked maybe way back then now it the co was the perfect time to launch it and it keeps me busy not as much it was during Co but it's perfect it keeps me busy on my off days or you know a night off um so yeah go to qcard by.com to get that and send me uh send me um what you want with your show's title and something like that we'll write it up and you can put it right in the background there I will I absolutely will um and and so I a question about that do you have like is there a phrase that gets used more than any others like we'll be right back with or yeah some want to do like yeah um um we'll be um uh we have a great show tonight so and so you know uh is here you know that put their friend's name in there we write back um I one of the big ones is I can't do live from New York I can do live from New York City I can do live from Tampa Bay I can do live from Cleveland we do live from Cleveland the fiston are having fun at Friday Night Football or whatever it is that so people personalize it and they have their own little Q card thing and I get a lot of people that will see it at our friend's house and say oh I saw at my friend's house I want to order one too this is that was the greatest thing I've ever seen they get them framed it looks nice it's something different that people don't have you know um and it's just another again so I have I never thought I would be a business owner and I have two businesses two qard businesses which is kind of crazy um okay another quick story um yes please is that Rob Bernett over your left shoulder uh that's Rick sheckman but Rob I saw Rob last month you knew Rick that's Shey right there that I knew Rick yeah but you know Rob Bernette I do yes saw him last month at Rupert's retirement so I was work I worked on the show every once in a while my brother was still writing it was this is when it was late show and I get a call from Rob berett one afternoon out of the blue and he was like hey Wally what's up and I he's like Rob Bernett I'm like hey Rob what's going on he was the head writer at the time absolutely and I was like I was like hey how you doing he's like you good I said yeah I'm good and we're both like silent for like 10 seconds like I don't know why he's calling me I don't know it's robertet he was like oh um well I you want to do a a writer's packet um for the show to be considered as a writer now I was trying to write and my brother must you know I was writing for Space Ghost I was writing for some other shows and um and I was like I would love to thanks so much so um we hang up and um uh I start writing I call my brother I was like Robert D just called me out of the blue and asked me if I wanted to do I go did you say something to him he's like no he was like we did he's like like yeah he asked me if I want to do a packet and and um he was like oh all right great so um he calls me back an hour later and he goes I know what happened he's like did you call me earlier I go I did you weren't there I go the receptionist wrote call Wall-E didn't put it in my brother's box put it in Rob Bernett box instead by mistake so I had called my brother so Rob Bernett got a note that said call Wall-E he's calling me wondering what I want he called me I'm wondering what he wants cuz I didn't call him I called my brother he filled the space by telling you to put a writer packet in didn't know what I didn't know maybe he thought I was too nervous to ask you know so I moral of the story was I did a writer packet I didn't get hired but if I had gotten hired wouldn't that have been the best way in the world to that you got hired on the show um I wasn't ready to write for that show but it was he was very nice and actually let me write a packet and re and and send it in but he called me back later you know this is a mistake but he's like put send the submission in let's know it if you're good we'll hire you you know so um it was amazing it was pretty crazy so I thought that'd be a funny story to end on sweetheart I want to have Rob on so bad I want to have Rob on here just to talk about Ed I love the series Ed oh that he I love yeah I really really want to have do a a whole different podcast with Rob you could do he must have so many stories so many stories yeah we've had Morty on we haven't had Rob on yet I I really would like Morty I loved Morty too Morty was really nice to me as well absolutely uh we've had Steve O'Donnell on and i' I've gone up for dinner with him quite a few times already you worked with did you work with Steve at Space Ghost I know Steve very well I worked with Steve I'm the one who got Steve in my brother involved with Space Ghost because I wrote an episode and I I don't remember either I found the show or my brother found the show he's like you got to watch the show and I watched it and I was like I need to write an episode of that so I called them I called I called Turner I called Space Ghost I got the producer on the phone I said hey I want to write an episode of your show like who are you and I was like well I write jokes for nor McDonald and I wrote a show called weinerville I wrote a show called weinerville on Nickelodeon and they were like all right send us a sample and we'll see and they liked it my sample so I wrote an episode and I told my brother about it and I told them that my brother wrote for Letterman and they love Letterman show yeah I got my brother and Steve oano involved with the Space Ghost after that and yeah they Steve did a lot of stuff with them I think right absolutely yeah like for those who Co Coast you have to watch it because it's amazing it's Dave and Morty and Paul but it's it's it's it's you know zorak it's it's space g zorak and Molar but it's so good it's so good once my brother once my brother heard about it and and saw that I wrote an episode he was like I definitely want episode so I was like I'll send him your way so I said the guy was ecstatic he's like he's like he hired me and he got my brother and Steve odono you know running for let himman so he was so happy so so yeah no I I know Steve well I had a weird incidence where I went up to I saw him on the street and I said hey Steve how you doing and he just ignored me and walked away and I was like why why you do that and I found later he has a twin brother I was gonna say and it was Mark and I didn't know he had a twin brother I was like that was weird I told my brother Steve just blew me off I said I well he's like oh it's probably his brother Mark I was like oh okay I don't feel so bad now wow um yeah oh my gosh this is this has been so much fun W I just I thank you for taking so much of your time to do this today no problem it it was fun it was fun recalling it I was I was really happy to do it because it's I do a lot of podcast but not Letterman was such a a point such a cool thing in my life and it made me rethink about all the stories and my experiences there so thank you for having me on I really appreciate it oh my gosh that that makes means the world to me um just hang tight here for a second we'll say goodbye privately I'm just going to do a quick outro if that's okay okay got it all right cool um well there we go that's why we do this show uh I'm a broken record at the for these outros here but that's why we do the show I mean we we we we pick up the little rocks uh the stones that have not been turned over and we try and turn them over to find out the inner workings of what we consider to be the greatest body of broadcasting work in history uh that of David Letterman and Company uh the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only and that is uh Rupert G now he no longer has the hello Deli but he still has hellodd deli.com go to hellodd deli.com the only place that you can buy official Late Show with David Letterman merchandise uh Rupert is just a hell of a guy and we just appreciate him so much hello.com the only sponsor of the Letterman podcast Q cards by Wall-E go there if you want to get a customized uh qard what a great gift what a great thing that would be I love I love having this one uh Ty TIG Rogers shout out to him for sending this one to me and uh what a cool gift if you're thinking about something uh for somebody for a for a special occasion of some sort um yeah this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chism coincidentally I am Mike jism thank you and good night overcoat and