David Plummer started as an intern and ended up as Siskel and Ebert’s final executive producer? Darn right he did!

all right y'all thought that I might be fibbing this is proof right now the Letterman podcast we have one sponsor one sponsor only but it is Rupert G in the hello Deli thank you very much for sponsoring our show Rupert it's my honor Mike welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisholm uh another great episode is coming up uh with a guy who was an intern we're talking about the summer intern series that we do here on the Letterman podcast who ended up uh being the final executive producer for um Siskel and Ebert which then became uh Ebert and Roper and and and the Incarnation of um one of the most iconic movie critic franchises I guess you'd call it um but but also you know when you talk about uh Gene and Roger Cisco and Ebert major major Letterman connections there and and here we have a guy who came in as an intern and then ended up working in television for a long time for another institution and very very cool stories here uh coming from David Plummer I'm very excited about this episode now uh before we get to it two things number one of course the Letterman podcast with one sponsor one sponsor only that is Rupert Gene the hello Deli I don't know how long I'm going to be able to say that for so I'm going to save her every moment I appreciate Rupert so much and if you're looking for Letterman merchandise of any sort uh Late Show mugs Late Show t-shirts um all sorts of fun stuff including Rupert merchandise go get it go to hello dashdelly.com okay so there we go the second thing is um I've had quite a few people put two and two together that um you know this uh people know that I'm Canadian I'm from a place called Kelowna British Columbia I've had a lot of people put two and two together that um and I did put a post out in in in a couple of the Letterman Facebook groups and whatnot yes uh my city has gone through um some pretty significant wildfires and uh just want to let you know that I'm okay that was not a certainty um but we are okay for now there are still thousands of people that are displaced and out of their homes and and uh a lot of homes have been lost man it's a it's a it's a crazy year for fires this year uh we think of those in Maui and other places in the world Yellowknife up here in northern northern Canada but yeah um Kelowna and West Kelowna have been ravaged uh as have uh other areas in the interior of British Columbia we got these old forests that are near here and dry dry conditions and when it goes up it goes up and there was a moment where our city um which is a resort City here in Canada looks like it looked like a firestorm so I just want to say thank you very much for everybody who has reached out um we had a candy and I had a go bag packed we were ready to go um and the two hard drives containing all the Lettermen podcast stuff I said goodbye to a lot of the things that I collected and took a few videos that sort of a thing uh thank goodness that didn't happen we had evacuees uh family members who were evacuated staying with us for a while it was a crazy crazy week this past seven days um we're still gonna try and get new episodes out on time hopefully that continues to happen we've had an episode come out at least once a week uh ever since April of 2020 we're gonna try and and keep that going um got some really good ones that are booked kept moving forward I'll give you a little tease of a broadcast Legend is coming on the Lettermen podcast an absolute Legend when it comes to broadcasting is coming on the Lettermen podcast uh we just booked that that's going to be happening in September I will probably release that the moment the moment after we're done recording I'll probably get it out I'm so darn excited about it but uh David Plummer today I'm excited for this one as well as you can see during the conversation we've got some other great ones coming up another intern uh is in the can as well and uh although I am yeah I don't know if Molly is going to be like to be referred to as in the can you'll see why when that episode comes out uh and then a couple other ones that are happening as well so very excited thank you again for people who have been asking about how we're doing so far we're okay we're gonna keep it that way uh hopefully and things will just do nothing but get better um but you're not here for that you're here to hear uh Tales From The Ed Sullivan Theater or from 30 Rock or any other part of letter the Letterman Mythos this one here very very cool David Plummer started as an intern ended up produ executive producing Ebert and Roper uh and much more enjoy David I am so excited that you are here today to uh help us out with our with our summer intern series our bonus episodes focusing on uh the interns of late night and Late Show with David Letterman uh very very very cool to have you here you got a great story and one of the things that um that the folks who worked for the show really enjoy I've got a lot of feedback already they enjoy hearing where the interns ended up I'm not certain that a ton of people from the show know where you ended up after uh you're you're run with Late Show so I can't wait to talk about that with you but thank you for taking time out of your day to uh be on the Letterman podcast today oh thank you so much for having me this is this is truly an honor really it's very cool oh man I appreciate that the honor is all mine um okay so I want to uh set the table here for for when you showed up at for your internship um had you been an Enthusiast of David Letterman and Company before that and uh what was it that caused you to apply for the internship because it's not like the internships were you know online and and the way that it is it was a very different time back then when you were an intern yeah yeah so yes uh first of all I was a huge fan of Dave's and of the show in general every night watching it uh you know and just thought the world of him and that's really obviously what got me kind of interested and because he would always do bits with interns and I was like oh that's pretty cool like why couldn't I do that so anyway I just sort of threw my resume out there to them I found out who the intern coordinator was and uh threw it out there and to my surprise they called me and wanted me to come out for an interview and uh I was shocked I mean I I don't you know didn't at the time know anybody in the business or anything so went out there uh had to do like seven different interviews with all the different departments and okay yeah so you actually did the the it's funny because some people did The Gauntlet and some people didn't do the gauntlet so you actually did The Gauntlet uh where would I go to school at the time so I actually was straight out of high school and I sent my resume into him uh so I was just 18 when I got it and hadn't actually started college yet so it was pretty cool wow right out of high school straight into the Ed Sullivan Theater uh what city were you in in high school uh Warsaw Indiana uh small town up North so yeah it was kind of uh kind of a cool thing to be able to do that Dave from Indiana got to go out and okay talk about that growing up uh because I know I know where I'm from in western Canada whenever somebody actually not just western Canada whenever somebody in Canada makes it big makes it good you know down south um you know we always have this sort of national pride from that it's a it's a it's a sort of an inferiority complex uh that I think most of us Canadians have but that's a state thing too like when somebody from your state goes and and makes it big somewhere um that's a big deal growing up in Indiana you guys were all aware of the meteoric rise of David Letterman weren't you oh 100 100 I mean it's you know David Letterman John Mellencamp uh you know a few others you can name off but Dave is right up there at the top of the list from for me specifically but I think for a lot of people in Indiana so what year are we talking what was your grad year so I graduated high school in 1994 uh ended up at Letterman in 1995 um and uh yeah it kind of went from there and we formed you know it's funny how the interns kind of form a little family or at least we did um you know I can only explain it or sort of describe it it was like the real world kind of like we all sort of you know we didn't live together but uh we all pretty much lived together we were always at each other's places and leaning on each other to to survive in the city so okay well it's five in the city that's so you're Indiana you know Dave you know you know works in the Big Apple obviously New York has this you know this magnetic pull it's one of the greatest cities that this world has ever seen um you know did you feel the pull to New York and had you been there before or was like were you like totally The Stranger In The Strange Land I had been there once before and uh you know and this was for like two or three days I had had a chance to go out there and check it out but I was I was pretty much you know I felt like a Stranger in a Strange Land um and like I said as young as I was it was really amazing but at the same time it was so much fun so it was a little a little bit daunting but at the same time I felt like I was right where I belonged you get out of high school and uh or before you're getting out of high school probably uh or or maybe it's like during the summer whatever you get correspondence back from the show saying we want to interview you um is that like you running to the parents and going that's the most exciting day of your life and then can we make this happen and how can we make this happen and is that is it a family trip that for the interview or how did that go yeah it actually it was a family trip we all went out there and uh I did The Gauntlet and then we came home pretty quickly but yeah it was you know when I got the news that I actually got the internship I mean I freaked out I I couldn't believe that I had a chance to get it because I I don't I don't know how many people you know apply or applied every semester but I imagine it was a lot and I was just blown away that I got the chance to do it uh let's talk a little bit about the actual interview day itself I mean you talk about the Ed Sullivan Theater in 1994.

uh the the the the the activity around that place it's still buzzing beyond measure David Letterman at one point you know as he made the big uh the the as The Late Shift happened you know one of the biggest celebrities on the planet uh everything just the action happening outside of the Ed Sullivan Theater electric um you know you guys show up there and do you remember that day well is it seared into your memory is that or is it one of those things where you're like it just went by so fast it was a blur and you don't remember much I I think well it definitely was was a blur I think I just kept reminding because I you know I was nervous you know obviously I just had to keep reminding myself to just be myself and not get caught up in in everything that I you know and what I was actually doing I was just having conversations with people and thinking this this was really cool and having a chance to pick their brains uh as well so uh yeah it was it was a great experience um you know it certainly was a blur um but I ended up in the right Department I think I ended up in the research Department uh where Matt Roberts and Jay Johnson and Tom ruprecht were all my bosses in the in the uh the research department and I learned a ton from them so oh you just you just uh picked a murderer's row of very kind very intelligent very funny very sharp people um wow you go in and you get to you get to to study under these people I guess Matt probably would have just taken over for kellison as a segment producer at that point right like because I think he I think he had started as a researcher I believe that could that could be I know my semester he was definitely still in the research department so he was still okay he was still in the research so he was kind of getting ready to ascend in then okay yes yes wow and uh and and with Tommy and man you just you you you literally picked three Legend Jay Johnson by the way little factoid I'm hoping to get him on here sooner than later we've had a few conversations Jay Johnson the only person right now who worked for the original Late Night and works for the current incarnation of late night uh with Seth Meyers he's the only person right now on staff that does that so there's a little factoid for everybody right there that is very cool yeah yeah now okay so you do the interview uh you go through all the Departments research uh it takes a shining to you um you know I think people who are probably under 35 uh at the time of this broadcast you know we're in 2023 as as we record this um probably have a different they probably look at the word research and Define it differently than guys like you and I do uh there was no Google the internet was in its very very very prehistoric infancy at this point um you know the research Department even when Dave uh when he retired you know he talked about uh in his last speech on his last uh Late Late Show he talked about you know the researchers they live in this Subterranean layer and he kind of threw back to the idea of being a researcher when you get the call saying that they've accepted you and you're going to be a researcher did you have any idea what that meant uh boy an intern in the research Department I had no idea what that really meant because like you said that was before the enter I mean not before the internet maybe but it was right on the cusp of the internet yeah um and uh I I had no idea what it meant and little did I know it was basically going to mean a lot of trips to Blackrock because we did a lot of uh a lot of research there and so it was a lot of interns going through microfiche and trying to find articles on different celebrities and because what we would do is we would every day we would put together a packet a research packet for Dave um on whoever the guest was for that night so you can imagine that was a lot of work and you wanted it to be really good because you knew it was going to be sitting right in front of Dave you knew for sure that he was looking at it uh so it was a lot of work but uh you know I think that was something and really being in the research Department in general and having uh Jay and Matt and Tom I was so lucky to be in that department and to have you know because a lot of people can go into TV and they've got real jerks for bosses or they've got people that don't want to sit and teach them or don't want you know that was not the case I was so lucky to have them uh being the ones teaching me because I use those researching skills all throughout my career into my next jobs um because I knew what it meant to put together good research oh that's a really good point like like um you know because you had to be so there wasn't just a Google to to to check out there was no IMDb like even right on a tool like the IMDb saves hours and hours and hours from a process like you're describing um do you remember your first week on the job do you remember any of the the first people that you would have done this with uh or done a research packet for oh boy the first I don't remember the first guest I did a research packet for I remember my first week um you know I just seeing being completely overwhelmed by the amount of research packets they have because there are filing cabinets just filled you know at the time they're just filled with research packets because they say obviously obviously they save them all for the next time so yeah next time digitized or was it just old school files it was old school files big old filing cabinets and you went through them and uh that I definitely I definitely remember being daunting and a lot of the first week was spent you know getting to know the other interns uh because you really have to build sort of a trust between one another um to be able to do your job because you need somebody to back you up and make sure that you know things don't fall through the cracks so a lot of that week was getting to know the interns figuring out our way around the building figuring out who was on what floor and you know all that kind of stuff so this is a great question so what floor were you was was the research department on I believe that was the 11th floor I believe that was 11 4.

I could be wrong but I think yeah Dave was on 14 is that the I think that's right I think that's what it was um this is this is so fun uh because I I think back to that time I can remember shows from 95.

uh wait you were part of the hypnosis show the hypnosis show happened before that didn't it yeah no I don't I wasn't part of it Matt I just like to bring up the hypnosis show just in case Matt Roberts gets scared that I'm going to show the picture of him hypnotized that was hypnotized oh man iconic moments uh you're a high school kid um you know working with people who are essentially all older than you was there anybody else who was your age there um I mean the other interns were you know we ranged in age from me 8 18 up to I think there might have been one that was 23 or 24 at the time um so yeah I was definitely the youngest one of our internship group yeah did you all get off uh shift at the same time um you know I think the writing interns were there longer uh than the rest of us were but yeah it was always you know we'd always leave and all the interns would go over to Yi old triple N I don't know if you know what that is but it's a bar that was right around the corner from uh from The Late Show yield triple n I've heard of McGee's um you know McGee's was talked about a lot because uh uh you know um Craig and Carter uh Bays when they made How I Met Your Mother they based uh the bar and How I Met Your Mother on McGee's where they used to go after the show all the time yield to oh I haven't heard of that one there that's uh uh I want to do more research on that thank you very much sure I think I'm gonna I'm gonna you know bury away a lot of memories uh in the walls of that place I'm sure yeah um where did you okay so New York It's New to You small town Indiana you show up in your New York City where did you uh where did you end up staying uh I lived on 42nd and 2nd Street called Tudor City and uh it was just a big big high-rise and uh it was me and another intern and eventually became three of us uh three of us interns living in a one bedroom one bedroom apartment um did you have a bathroom yes we did have a bathroom so that was good um but the two of it so I was the one that found the apartment so I got the bedroom and then there was a look yeah it was good it worked out for me um and then the other two uh we had beds out in the living room the other space the only other space in the in the apartment so um what an adventure I mean the fact that you can say that you did this at 18 uh you learned the skills that you did it stretched you the way it did for later on in life and we're going to get to that because you ended up at a very very cool place after late show but obviously we've got lots of meat on this bone still um you were there so you were there over the fall and winter season correct yes that's right we got it I think we I did get a jacket and unfortunately I'm devastated by it is we can't find my letterman jacket anywhere and it's so upsetting to me it was at my parents house and somehow it has gone missing and I'm so 95 that would have been that would have been late show on the back that would have been that jacket right yeah that's right so maybe one day maybe one day we'll we'll come come across it so oh that was talking about buried treasure wouldn't that be fun Man Okay so let's talk a little bit about a typical day uh for you and I mean like I I'm I'm super curious you talk about going to Blackrock um you know the big CBS uh Labyrinth of of of of broadcasting administrative Madness um going over to that place was that was that a daily thing like what did your day talk about a typical day was there a typical day or were they all different um I don't think there was really a typical day I think it depended on you know who the guest was uh for that evening but I I know you know beginning of the day there are meetings going on and the interns function I think was to do the intern things like go get coffee make some copies you know do that kind of thing and then we would get into more about preparing for that night's show um of what we needed to do to help prepare for that night show and and that could be any number of things I mean we didn't just do research so the interns even though they are in a department we all sort of did other things as well other interning things as well um but it could be anything like once I uh Shaquille O'Neal was on the show and they won it Dave apparently wanted to find a size 22 shoe so that he could hold it up you know at the desk and so that was that was my mission and I I don't remember the name of the place that I found it at but I got the shoe and Dave was able to hold it up on air and that was really cool because I never thought I would I didn't think I was gonna be able to do it I thought I was going to disappoint them so so you struck out a couple times along the way there's a special kind of pressure you're in the streets of New York like probably you probably start with a phone book I would assume back then like again you can't Google anything it's yeah it's a different time yeah we just started calling around to to different uh you know shoe stores and eventually found a place that actually had a size 22 so yeah oh that's fun yeah but yeah a typical day it was it could be any number of things um but it was always exciting always a lot of running around and trying to you know uh trying to figure out what was most important what you really needed to do right now and and for me it was always just not wanting to disappoint anyone I just wanted to come through on every single thing so um I'm super curious about you know folks who were the segment producers and the uh and the researchers their support team of the segments uh and and who were you know in the guest uh you know relations for lack of a better term I'm fascinated by that did you because I you know you do all this work for a seven minute segment or an eight minute segment um percentage of time that you would watch the segments like did you get a chance to see the show and and did you have a different filter when you watched the show because you're like oh I wonder if he's gonna ask about this or I wonder if he's going to ask about that like you must have had a different lens how you viewed the show yeah definitely because you would find things that you would hope he would bring up you know like you'd find something else you know something about a celebrity that I found really interesting and I My Hope was Dave would find it really interesting too and so yeah I would definitely watch along and sort of be like oh I hope you asked him this um but yeah we watched you know I watched every every night if I wasn't able to watch it uh you know at the at Sullivan Theater I was definitely watching it at home later that night um because I I loved the show and actually been being there for the show I wanted to soak in every second of it so the there are a slice of people me being you know one of them that as you say that just the vicariousness and and well the righteous Envy just unbelievable jealousy that you gotta check that what you just said the fact that you actually contributed to the show and then even if it was in the apartment at home you watch the show at that night and you have a completely different uh depth of observation of this amazing program you're you're in it you're part of it and I mean talking to you on the phone when I can tell that even to this day you're still grateful to be part of that and and that's that seems to be something that's common with everybody who who was there from the people who were there 32 years all the way back to the people who were there for six months as an intern um so many folks seem to be just grateful that they got to be a part of something like this it was something that was really really special but you were 18 at the time did you know it were you like were you present at that point and know it or was it like through the years of wisdom and experience that have gone by you now look back on it and like holy cow I can't believe I was a part of that you know I I do think that I knew what was going on at the time I think I could grasp it because even you know that has always been basically one of my favorite chunks of my life it always has been that that six months there um and I think I knew what a big deal it was uh to be an intern on that show and you know had I not had I not gotten that internship it could have changed everything I mean I may never have pursued what I pursued in life and uh because you know the odds of me working you know the odds of me working on a TV show maybe not as good if I had not had gotten that internship so hell of a thing to have on the resume is as well um especially for someone so so young like you mean at at 19 or 20 you know you've done it now but it's sitting there on the resume for the rest of your life which is which is kind of crazy um I want to go back to some moments uh now it's funny talking to some of the segment producers from back then and how you know I always say did you did you did you give somebody a good line you know that really really hit well and they're they're um uh they're a little bit they don't want to talk about it as much they're a little hesitant to talk about it because you know they don't want to take the Shine off of whoever that celebrity or that star was which I I just love that and I as I'm saying that you're nodding like you're understanding where I'm coming from like like because it was a team you guys wanted to just make it the best show that you could and I I appreciate that very much that being said um you researched a lot of stuff there were a lot of moments in that time um you know whether it's Dave throwing out a piece of footage from somebody from the past or or bringing up something you know where where um you know a celebrity uh talked about something unique or interesting to make their segment that way um do you have any memories specifically of things that you researched that did make the show that you were kind of proud of or any moments in the show that you were proud of oh boy that is one that is hard for me to really remember I mean I you know I certainly did a lot of work on every show while I was there just in terms of the researching and running around yeah um but it is it really does kind of become a blur I mean I met so many celebrities and because because you're there in that building you just never know who you're gonna bump into or who you're going to see um I'm trying to think of one that really sticks out for me uh I mean again Shaquille O'Neal I met him after finding those shoes but yeah I can't really think of one in general I mean you know I gave Jon Stewart a cigarette once before he was before he was Jon Stewart I remember oh yeah you remember that I mean he was Jon Stewart but not quite as big no it's not a holding deal with him like yes exactly he was connected to the show Absolutely yeah um and just meeting all the all the the different writers that they were I was kind of in awe of of the writers as well just because that's such a such a mythical thing when you think of the Lettermen show you know uh what that writer's room must be like so okay so the brain will keep going and maybe something comes up and if it doesn't if it does come up please please interrupt um you know I'm gonna I'm gonna get back to the writers here in a second because those are some of my favorite people to this day to meet is just the odd concoction of personalities that made up that writer's room from the different areas they are so much fun uh you know Tommy and and Matt being two of the chief ones that were you know that you mentioned them already that you worked with them uh but here's a question for you when uh did you meet uh Gene Siskel or Roger Ebert at Letterman you know I did not meet them at Letterman even though they were there you know all the time often yeah yeah all the time and I know you know they both love Dave uh very much I mean they and they competed on That Shook who would get the best line who would get the biggest laugh um you know and so but I did not meet them on the show well and that's one of the ones I'm gonna get a segment producer to talk about those guys and and by the way the reason I brought up Cisco and Ebert everybody is uh Dave ended up David here ended up working uh for that show and that program and and and exec producing it at the at the end of the day um and so you know that's that's why I brought them up specifically but I want to talk about them on uh you know we'll get to that after you know yeah they those two guys uh were two of my very very favorite guests I loved when they were on there uh guys like Charles Grodin or or or some other Harrison Ford's probably another good example were people who showed up with not even quite a shtick but like they had a personality or they had a they had a Direction they were definitely going and those two when they would just rip on each other oh yeah they would I mean because I mean you see them at the movies or the two you know the greatest you know America's arguably most famous movie critics yeah and and and they're pretty straight laced but then you see them on Letterman and you see them cutting the way that they were it was a it was really really fun to see that they were two of my very favorite guests of all time and you could tell Dave liked having them on I feel like because he could kind of just hand it off to them and let them bicker and that's the that's the segment you know um but I know one of their favorite uh bits that they did Gene and Roger's favorite bits that they did with Dave was he took them door-to-door in New Jersey Gene and Roger and it I looked tried to look for that bit today on YouTube and I can't find it anywhere but that I know that was one of their favorite things they'd ever ever done in media was that door-to-door thing so I think that might be collection on Don giller's Channel and if so I will make sure I find it for you when I get it for you but uh I mean that's certainly a moment you think about you know um Walter and the crew at the Letterman YouTube channel they're doing such a good job by getting these clips out there that's one that I'm certain will end up on the official Channel um good I hope it does that was gold absolutely gold um and also you and I were talking about this a little bit too I was nice to kind of give you this little uh little tip if you if if anybody out there wants to watch something that's very entertaining with Dave that isn't the actual uh show itself go find the CBS the very first press conference that Dave did with CBS um and it was uh Larry Tisch and and everybody there announcing that that that Dave was officially coming over um Gene Siskel a reporter in his own right you know of press credentials was at the press conference and he actually asked a question or two during the scrum uh with Dave at the podium and I mean being just absolutely laser sharp with his answers it's so it's it's it's 27 minutes I think it is and it's so entertaining and then at the end of the clip if you watch the one on Don at the end of the clip they actually interview Gene Siskel um there as as well so that's a that's a pretty neat Letterman moment with Siskel and Ebert um yeah I want to go back to uh to the writers a little bit I as well and am in awe of of of that collection of people um did you get a chance to see like I guess you would have seen how the sausage gets made you would have seen some of these these things you know produced and these segments and things like that um did it sparked a creative bug in you like you were there as a high school student you didn't necessarily know you were going to get into TV or broadcasting or anything like that was it contagious did it make you want to be creative as well oh a hundred percent I mean it made me know that this is what I want to do um you know it it let me know that TV and essentially that kind of TV that was uplifting and fun and you know that that was what I wanted to be a part of um so yeah that's certainly certainly affected me in that way oh it's fantastic um yeah before we kind of you know I want to talk about I want to talk about the entire encompassing experience for you there uh while you were in New York um you know you're there for a few months whatever homesick at all was it was it uh was it was it all you know high intensity you were just had your head down you were doing this this thing or were there were there times of downtime where you're like holy cow this is overwhelming um I never felt overwhelmed like to the point where I was like oh my God you know I I certainly it's overwhelming coming to New York and walking into the at Sullivan Theater for the first time is just mind-blowing and knowing that you're gonna work there uh you know all that is mind-blowing but you know in terms of homesickness I did pretty well I think my parents actually came out to visit me once and you know so I I wasn't for lack of seeing them all together and we certainly talked at least probably every day is my guess if I remember right um but it definitely you know was a big deal in my life at the time and and I I think I I think I I recognize that and never never felt like I was in over my head though oh that's awesome what did they think of the uh was there was there sticker shock when they saw the size of the apartment for the first time uh when they sell the price of the apartment and the size of the apartment yeah and I was really really fortunate in that that my parents were able to help me with that because not everybody would be able to do that so that was that was a huge a huge thing that they were able to support me in that way um before we move on real quick I had one more I had an intern story to tell so when I applied for the internship you know you have to fill out a questionnaire basically all sorts of different stuff and one of the questions is can you drive a stick shift and I'm thinking I hey I couldn't drive a stick shift and so I just put yes because I'm thinking what who's gonna you know make me drive a car so anyway get into the internship it's the first or second week and I get a call from Lori diamond and Dave's office that they want me to take Dave's Car a Porsche to get it washed and here's me and I had to fess up and say like I'm sorry I said that I could I could drive a stick but I can't because I was just imagining myself trying to drive Dave's Porsche you know around New York City yeah uh so I had to fess up but they were cool about it but that was that was one of my things is I totally lied about being able to drive stick shift and it came back to bite me so and you got and you got busted by it um got busted I love that's so Charming to me by the way uh you're not the first second or even third I don't even think you're the fourth person uh to tell a story that's very very very similar about Dave's car and and being at that position like I love the fact that it is such a common occurrence that an intern might have to grab Dave's car somewhere or take Dave's car somewhere or do something with it it's Charming to me that on the questionnaire one of the questions is can you drive a stick shift and it's actually a legitimate question that has to do with the with the position I adore that and that's exactly you're the first person that says got busted by it and that's that's that's super super cool um so okay you've talked about you know times that you actually watched the show did you ever watch it from the theater or was it always from a monitor inside the office building it was always from a monitor I think the interns typically we tried to stay out of the backstage area and and I don't think we were really allowed out in the unless it was part of a bit or they were sitting in a seat you know uh something like that but they the interns were were pretty much you know encouraged to not be around uh the backstage area as much as possible because really you're just getting in the way too many people back there yeah were you ever part of a bit I was Paul McCartney's brother Tito and uh it was some bit and it's for some reason Paul McCartney had a bunch of brothers and I was Tito but it was just a picture of me they just used a picture of me uh said that I was Paul McCartney's brother did it make air it didn't it did it was a really quick bit but um yeah it was on air and I thought it was the coolest thing ever and was telling everybody but it was like a split second that you could see me so do you have the clip so like because to me as you just described that uh that's the joke right if it's a picture with all the names of the brothers Tito is kind of the joke obviously yeah I think that's exactly that's fantastic do you remember who wrote it I don't I don't know who wrote that one yeah just assemble everybody for uh for for a picture let's let's do this um that's fantastic that's that's very very Charming um yeah okay uh before we kind of move on here uh I think it's time for a commercial uh the Letterman podcast is brought we got one sponsor one sponsor only and that is grouper G in the hello Deli uh you can still for a few little while because he's selling the deli now it's an iconic moment in uh in New York culinary entertainment I guess we can call it um you know a landmark in in New York uh you know the mayor came out there and did some cool things at the at the hello Deli a couple years ago rupergy Rupert and may uh sell on the deli but right now you can still go to hellodashdaily.com you can get yourself a late show mug you can get yourself a late show t-shirt and uh Rupert packs these things himself if you ask him really nicely he may add onions to your order go to hellodashdeli.com and you can find uh Late Show with David Letterman merchandise or Rupert get get get a Rupert t-shirt because they are definitely going to be collector's items soon um you know we take for granted the fact we think things are going to be here forever but no not so much and and we've got a couple things Rupert's talked about how he's he'll announce the official what's happening here on this show so we'll talk about that moving forward but uh I assume you probably uh ate a time or two with a super sandwich at the hello Deli absolutely I was there I feel like we were there almost every day whether it was for ourselves or for somebody on the staff we were we were down there a lot and Rupert he really is the nicest guy he he always had time for us if he found out we were interns he was so cool um I wonder if he sells jackets at the does he sell the letterman jackets at the hello Deli or no no oh well anyway uh he was great along with everybody else for you I know along with everybody else you know he was he just was the nicest guy so uh too bad to hear that he's moving on but it's great that he's a sponsor absolutely and it's a celebration for him you know it's it's 30 something years of of um incredible work that he could never in a million years have predicted uh he's like you say he's like he's like God took the word kind and made it into a human being he's just the kindest man and so grateful um I don't know if a conversation goes by because I mean we talk quite a bit um and and uh I don't know if a conversation goes by where he doesn't use the word blessing in conjunction with like he they're his family you guys are all his family um he loved every single one he has so so so yeah it's uh it's bittersweet it's it's it's sweet for him and you want him to just have the best life ever uh as he moves to the next phase but it's bitter because you know you just think oh remember I'm in New York I could just go by the hello Deli but that's no more anymore yeah so I mean it will be the case it just won't be Rupert there all right okay um okay so you didn't so ironically not once did you watch a show in the Ed Sullivan Theater boy I don't think I ever did I don't think I ever got to actually sit now what I did get to do which was really cool is I would get to sit every once in a while would get to see a band uh in rehearsal uh so I'd get to go down for rehearsal and I remember like Tracy Chapman I think did Fast Car and I got the and I got to sit and watch that um trying to think of who else I think I saw Pearl Jam in there um it was crazy and being able to see that kind of stuff you know obviously I didn't know who Tracy Chapman was at the time but looking back now it's like wow that's that was pretty cool um you know and and we we saw a lot of I definitely saw at least five uh bands during that time so yeah never the never the huge ones like if you two was showing up or something it was like nope no one turns down here for rehearsal but yeah yeah but it's funny though because like you mentioned like Pearl Jam you know massive relationship with did with Dave that developed but you saw it kind of in its infancy you saw Pearl Jam when they were kind of making their making their way Dave did that whole thing uh where he would keep uh singing Black and then One Night Eddie Vedder shows up and does the thing and and the relationship with the show fast forward a few decades Pearl Jam goes into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame who induced some David Letterman so that's very good you saw some pretty cool historic uh bridge building happening at that point that's that's that's that's awesome um so okay the internship is coming up to an end um you're in the apartment with two other guys uh two other interns and and um you know that it's coming to an end are you like now you're just out of high school so was the plan college for sure was there a party that was like I do not want this to end I want to apply for a job like was there any uh part of you that was did you know that you were gonna go back and was it predetermined and and this is just what's gonna happen or was there some uncertainty there um I you know I knew I I mean I knew I was going to college I there was there was no way that my parents would have uh allowed me to to stick around out there I don't think I mean you know aside from if they were offering me some great full-time job maybe they'd say okay but I knew I had to go to school and so yeah I ended up um at Columbia College in Chicago and one of the days uh where it was one of the first days of class and somebody mentioned that Cisco and Ebert were looking for interns and nobody else was interested and I think it was maybe an age thing you know Gene and Roger they've been around for a lot of years maybe the younger crowd wasn't as into him I happened to be huge fans of theirs and just big movie fan in general um and so I was like well yeah why wouldn't I try to intern for them um and I ended up getting that internship largely because of the Letterman internship had I not done the Letterman thing I never would have I don't think I would have ever had a chance at Cisco neighbor did they ever ask you about it oh yeah they talked about Letterman all the time and uh you know they they certainly enjoyed their time out there but they that was the thing that that got me that because it was a very small staff you're talking four people four or five people you know on the on that on that staff so they needed people you know when you get an intern and you you get them for uh three or four months or a full semester you know you want to make sure that they're legit you know that they're going to be able to do the job and and me having a successful internship at Letterman that sealed the deal for me so um so as you're going to to Colombia um what was your what was your focus of study and did did it change at all um you know during that very stretching process of being an intern for for Dave in turn for did you switch from you know English to broadcasting or anything like that or did did you just kind of continue on yet you're gonna get your uh your degree uh what did you study I I studied television film um and yeah I was I was hooked I mean as soon as I got out to Letterman I was hooked on it and knew that that's what I wanted to do so I went to Columbia College in Chicago and which is a big liberal arts school um you get tons of Hands-On work when it comes to television and film and so it was just it was a great fit for me because it was you know knowing what I already wanted to do it made a ton of sense what uh what kind of tons of hands-on experience what kind of stuff did you do there that was that was fun oh you got to make short films you were part of an actual live you know broadcast every every day and uh you could you know you wrote soap operas and game shows and talk shows and all sorts of stuff and you actually got to live that stuff out and me kind of knowing how the sausage was already made uh got to make my own adjustments in my own uh you know basically put my two cents in on a lot with even the professors and say Hey you know if you do it like this it'd be a lot more real to life and how they actually do it on a real TV show you know so that was that was helpful in those times too super awesome I love that uh very very much by the way uh I've said awesome so many times now that I know that I'm going to get a message from dawn Giller telling me to knock it off he calls me Chris Farley if I use the word awesome too many times that's going on um but I gotta uh so okay let's let's spill it here uh obviously you you uh you know obviously between me because we've talked about this you got a chance to intern for Dave again when The Late Show showed up in Chicago yeah you've got a did you get a call did you hear they were coming to Chicago and you reached out to that how did that happen you know I got a call from them actually and I think it was that they were just looking for anybody that was in the Chicago area I you know I had an intern a friend of mine that was an intern that got hired on right away right after our internship was over and I think her name's Sarah eyed and I think she may have been the one to say Hey you know David Plummer is in Chicago he could help us during that time um you know so that that ended up working out but yeah Sarah worked on the show for a long time uh I'd love to talk to her obviously yeah our intern series here um so so you get the call were you shocked uh no I wasn't shocked I was excited though uh because you know you go you leave something like the Lettermen show and all that excitement and you go to college and it's just like oh I gotta like I gotta do this like I wanna go do that again and I want to get paid to do it I want to get paid to do that you know yeah um so you know that was that's something sort of hard to get over but then bringing that when they called me about that that was definitely a boost um because you know I got to got to go and and see all those people again and got to work on the show again which was great just shot in the arm now obviously um you know your research is is is is different and all that kind of I assume you didn't do any research when they came to Chicago you were doing yeah different duties that was all about running around and getting anyone what they needed and yeah just being there at any you know at their beck and call to make sure that we can provide whatever they need to pull the show off yeah um were any of your former interns there and in a different position at that point I can imagine uh like Matt would have probably moved up at that point and and whatnot yeah I None of the interns uh except for Sarah I think she was the only one that stayed ah there might have been one other that stayed on um but but yeah that's that's all I can think of in terms of anyone that would have moved up other than Matt and Tommy obviously yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um did you watch those shows live um I don't think I did I think it was a very similar situation yeah I don't think I now I did eventually get to go to a show uh this was way after I I just happened to be in New York and I got to go to one of the shows and sit in the audience so that's all in a favor for that one or did you send in the way that we all did uh for your ticket no I definitely called in a favor for that one uh yeah Sarah was Sarah my friend again was able to to give me a ticket yeah uh that's that's Charming I just I I love I love the fact that you got a chance to work with them again and it got a chance to get that shot in the arm for you while you were still in college yeah okay so you were what year did you go all four years to college I it actually took me longer than yeah it took me I I did the Chris Farley thing where it took me eight years to finish college and I still wasn't a doctor um so uh yeah it took me a long time because once I started working full-time I know we're going to get to that in a little bit but I was working full-time and then going to school at night so it definitely took me a while to to finish my schooling so let's get to that where were you working full-time uh so siscal and Ebert so I ended up you know getting that internship which was a full-time full-time internship at the time so it was five days a week and a busy guy it was I was busy and going to school you know the rest of the time and uh eventually got hired on they all seemed to really like me and I really liked all of them so um I got hired on as a production assistant and had several different titles over the years but uh eventually became a producer and then the at the very end of the show executive producer so yeah that is uh and okay so I'm trying to remember Gene passed in 99 right correct it was February of 99 yeah right and the reason that I know that is because I'm a gigantic Star Wars fan and um there's a there's a there's a there's a story out there because Gene was obviously also a big Star Wars fan and he he had a kid that he was really looking forward to because his kid wasn't born when he I don't think any of the Star Wars movies had come out and then The Phantom Menace which was a big deal again the kids under 30 don't understand how big it was the year when the new Star Wars movie came out when The Phantom Menace came out and and Gene password you know the story I'm talking about I I do I do yeah that that Roger you know promised Gene that he would take uh his son will to see the movie and any followed through on that he followed through on that promise um I mean okay first off before we before we get into Gene and and the the loss uh when he did pass because it was it was for for the viewing public I think a lot of people were really shocked by it it was it was it was shocking for a lot of people I can only imagine other people of the city of Chicago felt because he was kind of an institution there uh before we get to that though you obviously got to make a lot of good memories um with these guys and and be a part of things where did they shoot that show uh so that was in Chicago and at the time it was at the CBS station in Chicago um and you know the show was syndicated but we aired uh the show was syndicated owned by ABC but we shot it at CBS um so yeah that was uh that that's where we we did it there down right downtown Chicago a lot of people thought they actually were in a balcony of a movie theater they actually weren't it was a set it was a set and there were a little chair tiny little seats that were made to look like the seats down below and it was it was all a visual illusion did you ever watch movies with those guys all the time all the time that was that was part of the job yeah there's a tiny little screening Room downtown Chicago on like the 16th or 17th floor of a building down there you would never know it was there um and you know I would see probably two to three movies a week with those guys um you know in advance of the release date yeah correct yep and and really you know obviously it was one of the best perks of the job but really we were there as factual backup you know these guys were seeing anywhere from five to ten movies in a week um and writing reviews for all these things and so we were there to basically after they wrote their review we'd go through it just to make sure all the facts were correct to make sure that they didn't mix up one movie with another movie uh you know which could be pretty embarrassing obviously so you know we really never stopped for you did a day it really didn't it really didn't and I and I was the one that would do all the research for the movie you know the research packets for the movies and and all sorts of stuff so that was something I took from from Letterman as well as doing research packets for Roger and Jean so would Studio send uh Prince and like posters and things like that too or was it just a print and a nondescript tin like um what was that um it would just be a print that they would send directly to uh to the the screening room you know um but sure they would send I mean we used to get all kinds of Swag you know uh posters and hats and any of the goofy stuff that you know the movie studios like to give out so yeah well you get a kick out of that if you're a movie fan which you are so that's kind of that's that's that's that's really really neat um would they talk while they watch the movie or was it pretty silent um the only time I heard him talk was if they were telling somebody else to be quiet and not in a mean way but it was it you know and they get shushed by Roger Ebert that can be kind of intimidating you know oh yeah so uh that's the only time I remember them really talking and they absolutely did not talk after the movie whatsoever um would not talk about the movie until they got on air so it was they had no idea what the other one thought of the movie at all so I love that and and going back I I 100 uh feel that when I think of them and one of them would make a point and then the other one would shift in their chair and get ready to talk at each other and they would talk at each other many times you know because they wanted to get their points out um I just loved that it was it was a again you look at something it's a it's a a timestamp in history uh culture cultural time stamp in history those two guys um and and you got to be a part of that it's it's such a um a neat thing that you got to be a part of it um again obviously when Gene passed that was a that was a big deal did you guys decide right away you were going to continue on with the show and figure out uh a way you know it became e Burton Roper and there was a time where um you know celebrities would be it would then come in and be a part of it uh you guys did a really good job to try and be creative to try and keep the franchise going was that an immediate decision or was that one where there had to be a little bit of time before you decided to keep it going so when when Jean passed so I was you know I was a production assistant when Gene actually you know when he passed away so I wasn't necessarily part of the the big racing this was Disney this was this was really Disney and Roger because at the end of the day if Roger didn't want to do it it was it was over with but I think Roger thought it was important to keep the show going because really I mean it was you know it was the last of its kind like they're really you know you think about it and as amazing as Letterman was there are still talk shows out there you know there is no movie criticism talk show uh out there there is it's all the internet now anybody can be a movie critic and in this day you know in that day and age yep they were the experts where that doesn't happen anymore there aren't movie critics that are that influential any longer yep agreed um they tried to keep it going and they did keep it going for a while like it was it was they kept it going for a while there um you were there when it was when it was finally uh you know where they decided to call it a day uh was it Disney was it Roger was it both um what was it that stopped the show from uh from producing new episodes well so I think it was Roger being you know Roger got sick um yeah you know and that obviously put the show you know one we were all very concerned about Roger obviously and wanted him to be okay um but I think that was the moment you know when you lose when you lose Roger Ebert you know you just can't you can't replace them you know and you know you could if you could have you could have one or the other but if you don't have either one of them there's no show you know and that's just that's just the unfortunate the unfortunate truth of it um so I I think you know Roger decided pretty quickly he wanted to continue it on because he felt like it was an important show and important to have that discussion uh and he you know we did we went through a lot of movie critics on that so the first time after Gene passed it was mostly movie critics that we had on and that is very challenging because there aren't a lot of movie critics that are real telegenic and I don't mean that offensively to anyone but these are guys that spend a lot of time by themselves watching movies you know so you got it's a it's a real trick to find those that are telegenic and can do a good job and can read a skirt you know a teleprompter and then turn and argue with Roger Ebert you know yeah yeah that's the that's the very difficult thing so we spent a lot of time with those critics just trying to get them ready for TV and make them comfortable and then we had people like Martin Scorsese came on and he did the best of the 90s I believe yeah we did the best of the 90s show uh you know Peter bogdanovich was on but the rest of them were mostly movie critics after Roger got sick we and Disney decided to go the route of celebrities so it was you know we had everybody from uh Jay Leno was a guest host uh you know we I know we asked Dave uh and he must have declined remember he may never have gotten the request even um but uh you know we had John Mellencamp came on as a guest critic and that was a trip and he smoked all the way up the elevator it was crazy uh you know um that was a total trip to have him on and then Fred Willard was a guest host and he oh absolutely he was such such fun so so um I mean you're the way you're talking about all of these things I mean it's such it's so fond um what are you doing now and do you miss do you miss Broadcasting um you know there are things I miss about TV so after after uh Ebert and Roper and at the movies was canceled um I went on to produce uh a TV show in Chicago a local TV show in Chicago a talk show which was actually very successful in the city and and was a lot of fun it was very similar to the environment of Letterman uh you know lots of celebrity guests and things like that so I went on to do that um that's and then what was the name of the show it was called Windy City Live awesome yeah yeah so it was it was a great show a couple times a week what was it it was an hour every day one hour show per day yeah yeah and for a little local TV show we got a lot of big stars to come in and that was that was a great thing for us oh man and good for me I I you know in terms of producing it was a different kind of producing than I had done on eberton Roper and so uh it was a welcome welcome thing and a another high stress job but a lot of fun but in terms of what I'm doing now so I I while I was working in TV um a guy that I knew had started getting into drones and this had been you know this has been 10 years ago and uh I found it fascinating because I was like man who needs a who needs a helicopter anymore if you can do this with a drone like you know what do you so anyway I started to get interested in what people could do with drones and how it was going to affect the future and that kind of thing and so now what I do is I work uh I co-own a business where we work with like police departments and fire departments and help them with drones for search and rescue and that sort of thing so it's completely different than what I was doing before but I do run our YouTube channel and all that kind of stuff so I still have fun uh making some videos but completely different world than what I was in and I miss the people I do not miss the stress yeah oh yeah uh that's a sentiment that I have heard um a few times uh expressed in a few different ways um well here let me ask you this did you ever dream about the show did you dream about the show after the fact like did you was there oh for sure I know I know that I have yeah and and you know you wake up in a cold sweat you know you forgot to do something for the segment or whatever but yes absolutely you were there six months right like yeah like yeah and and you had that people who that seems to be one of the universal things from people who were there a very short period of time all the way to people who were there at the end that seems to be one of those ones those cold sweat pressure dreams oh my gosh I'm thinking that that something is due or or you've missed something um yeah that seems to be a universal one yeah I uh I I'm really really grateful that that you have uh opened up the memory Vault here for me and again anybody who was in your class like Sarah or anybody else who was there we want to get everybody's uh story here um and I'll tell you where it kind of came from we had one of our first uh folks that we had on who was an intern um I had a couple staff members reach out to me and thanked me because they really liked this person and they had wondered whatever happened to them and and it's it's it's super super cool like I'm I'm positive uh that Tommy J and Matt are gonna really enjoy seeing you here and hearing all of these things if they didn't know some of the little um uh oh I hope so details of what you did I'm certain that's going to be the case because it was a family there and and so um it's really fun to kind of go down and and explore these little nooks and crannies of the uh the worldwide pants um you know family so I really do appreciate you taking time um yeah I don't have to twist anybody's arm though because the universal thing seems to be everybody wants to talk about it it was an exciting time in their life as we close out here um I just want to say thank you very very much and if there's anything else that you want to close with here we'll let's do it um you know I think for me at first thank you for having me on but um I I just you know honestly thank you to everybody that that I got to meet at Letterman and you know I they probably don't know or maybe you can't feel it but they had huge impacts on every intern that came through there and uh like I said if if I had not had that experience my life would have been completely different so I'm very grateful to all of you uh very well said uh David Plummer intern 1995 Late Show with David Letterman um this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisholm coincidentally I am Mike Chisholm thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants