Caissie St. Onge

welcome once again to the Lettermen podcast I am Mike Chisholm uh your tour guide on this Cavalcade of uh irreverence but not irrelevant uh the great celebrating the greatest body of work in broadcasting history that of David Letterman and Company um we have one sponsor on this show so far um and it is we're happy to say that it is Rupert G in the hello Deli so um isn't that great Casey is there a guess we're gonna give her a proper intro but Casey's here and uh and and I love I love when I say that how many of our guests get that little oh when I say Rupert G and the hello Deli one of the kindest humans on the entire planet uh Rupert G uh runs the Sam with a soup and sandwich shop along with his business partner May in the womb of the Ed Sullivan Theater um go for a sandwich go for some soup but if you want official Late Show with David Letterman merchandise like this mug like actually I think Scott's book is still there I think you can still get Scott Ryan's book the last days of Letterman there uh Rupert G t-shirts all of that stuff please go to Hello deli.com and uh and retrieve uh said merchandise uh Rupert will pack it with care himself uh before he sends you the package and uh and and if you ask him really nicely he may add onions to it um so we're we're really excited um uh the trajectory of this show uh is certainly um it has it has uh gone a lot quicker than I ever anticipated that it has I'm so grateful I love doing this broken record saying that uh today's guest I'm really excited about today's guest um many of you know that I I also host a a men's mental Wellness podcast it's a personal development kind of a thing and and and in that show many times um I'm a big fan of personal development I'm a big fan of of of uh watching the evolution of of success the evolution of somebody uh working towards their dreams we've got a guest here who basically started her uh show business career trying to figure out what she was going to end up becoming um with the folks at worldwide pants uh very very cool her self-described when she started working for David Letterman in 1993 at the time where I don't know if there was a celebrity more talked about in uh in in pop culture than Dave if there was there weren't very many of them um started her career in Show Business right at the epicenter of that Madness and um I'm really excited uh to to have seen her not just not just go and stay in the pants family but to move away uh ended up working at Rosie O'Donnell became a writer and then a showrunner for busy Phillips's show um amazing trajectory I love that uh busy of course uh you know suffered a setback um and but they have continued on and weathered on and not only that uh are creating some really cool content uh Busy Phillips is doing her best is the podcast that Casey is currently on I want to talk about Letterman stuff I want to talk about the trajectory that led her to where she is right now and for those of you who haven't heard of that podcast but are extreme David Letterman fans uh in October of either 20 25 I think no 2020.

October 2020 David Letterman actually appeared on that podcast so if we want a bit of a gateway drug into how awesome a show Busy Phillips is doing her best is uh you've got it right there um and uh and also I would also like to say that uh if if you haven't seen it yet we're gonna post simultaneously with this we're going to repost Walter and Company have put up uh Casey's um uh staff uh memories on the Letterman podcast or the or the Letterman YouTube channel so we're gonna post that up as well uh Casey St August thank you so much this is awesome having you here ah thanks I'm I'm excited to be here excited to meet you oh man I uh I think I'm more excited to meet you but hopefully those tables might get a little bit closer before the end of this show that would be really really cool um I wanna I I want to start at the beginning um I wanna I wanna actually not to pick apart what Walter and and Company have put up but I mean when I saw that highlight reel of of of your favorite moments um and the way that they expertly edited them all together um right there holy smokes were you ever thrown into a storm of of of of of excitement and and and show business when you started with with the Late Show yeah I really was I mean it was a Confluence a perfect storm I guess kind of um I went to a small college and my hometown uh I lived at home a rural town in Massachusetts I'm a farm girl and so my college required that you do an internship and um this is like not to toot my own horn but I graduated from college in three years because and that's not because I'm a super genius or anything like that it's really just because I was working uh the graveyard shift in a nursing home to put myself through college and I really just wanted to get through it I just wanted college to be over I wanted it to stop being a thing that I had to pay for so that I could just get a job and you know live my life and so um so my internship came up really fast in my college God bless them uh my advisor said you know um we can set you up with this lighting rental Warehouse in Boston and I was like lighting rental there okay I was like let me let me let that be the backup I had some inkling that I wanted to be a writer and uh so someone from my college had done an internship at uh late night um some years before and um my boyfriend who is my husband now but my he was already living in New York also went to the same college and uh he was working at Comedy Central he had been an intern there and had been hired there uh and so I you know I let the lighting Warehouse be my backup but then also got my boyfriend's boss at Comedy Central to say you definitely have an internship here if if nothing else pans out and I applied it sorry live and I just supplied it everything that was in New York and I got a call from late night because it was still late night at that time asking me you know can you come in for an for an interview and so I was like yeah sure you know and this is back in the days when like internships didn't pay anything and you know you sort of had to just figure out like how you were gonna like there wasn't some dormitory that I was going to live in or whatever so um I took the bus to New York City uh went in for my interview and I met with um Susan schreier who is our internship director and uh she just was like I'm just gonna take you around and this is at 30 Rock This is I'd never been to 30 Rockefeller Plaza hallowed grounds hollowed ground I mean for for entertainment and um so she was like I'm just gonna take you around to the department and so I very early in the day like met with a writer and then just got met with another writer and met with another writer and uh I was having a great time talking to all these guys that you were just talking about um Steve Young Steve O'Donnell I remember that conversation because he knew everything about my hometown and I was like are you from nearby there and he was like no I just know stuff about towns you know and I was like which Steve was that that that Steve O'Donnell that was O'Donnell yeah yeah Steve Young is is from Massachusetts so we had that in common but uh yeah but just meeting with all those guys and and it was going on for such a long time and I sort of was like you know I'm not one to be like I'm killing this or whatever I'm not that's not my excuse me sorry to cough on your podcast um any bodily function is acceptable on the Letterman podcast that is not who I am sorry I'm losing my voice hold on one second that's okay a tasty beverage is also encouraged yes I'm like trying to I don't know why I have a frog in my throat but um yeah so I wasn't I certainly at that age wasn't confident in what I was doing but I was like these writers are really meeting with me for a long time and so maybe like you know maybe I kind of have a chance at getting this internship like in the writing department and then Susan came and found me and she was like where have you been and I was like oh I was meeting with like every single writer and she was like they already picked their intern like two weeks ago and I was like oh and she was like they're proud they're just talking to you they just like to talk you know and I was sort of like oh okay and then so I was kind of like you know Peaks and valleys right I was like well I guess I wasted my whole day talking to people that didn't need an intern um and she was like well there's one more office that needs an intern so she brought me in to talk to this woman Lori Diamond who I didn't know who she was at the time oh man um okay hold on it's probably good you didn't know who she was at the time right yeah I mean I think so I I mean who knows yeah I I just knew that as soon as I got there she introduced herself I'm Dave's executive assistant and you know we need an intern and just at that time like Dave came out of his office and he was like asking for something and then you know they're very polite there so they were like oh Dave this is Casey she's here to interview for an internship and so because he you know he's the interviewer that he is he just took over the interview and he was like cool where are you from where'd you go to school cool shoes uh and uh then he was like well pretty much the only thing my intern needs to know how to do is drive a stick shift can you do that and I was like no sir I can I do not know how to drive a stick shift and he was like okay great nice to meet you and I was like great Okay bye so then I I kind of thought like that's it you know that's that's uh that's it and I'm not getting this job and so um I guess I hung out in the city for the weekend and then went back home and was like I it might be the lighting Warehouse you know it might be that might it might not be worth it for me to go and do an internship at Comedy Central that might not because also we were talking about like not to get too personal like our parents were kind of old-fashioned and I didn't have any friends in the city so our plan was to kind of like my boyfriend and I live together to share expenses mostly but you know in a time where people would at least raise their eyebrows at that at certain people from a certain place in time and mine yeah and especially our parents and especially because I was a little bit younger uh for a person who was just about to graduate from college and um yeah and so and also by the way when we were applying for apartments um some apartments wouldn't rent to people that were not married so I think we were saying that we were married on some of our applications that's the early 1990s everyone and I are from the Gen X generation where we can look at the our baby boomer parents and we can look at the millennial Offspring and and Beyond uh and and and kind of go okay it was a different time you gotta understand it was a different time and we could say it from many angles right now can't we yeah it sure was a different time so um yeah so I was just getting very anxious about what my future was going to be and then finally got a call from Susan saying like uh you got picked to be an intern in Dave's office and I was like oh that's so weird like is that a mistake like I like we specifically discussed how I can't do the one thing that he needs someone to do so over that summer I knew that I had to report for Duty like I think August 15th um and over that summer about 10 days before yeah that's like during Test shows right yeah yeah yeah well I don't know if it was it was before Test shows for sure okay um but yeah so I was um I made a half-hearted attempt to learn how to drive a stick shift it's just not something that's like in My DNA Never Gonna Be in My DNA I don't think I think there's a reason we've evolved away from it um as a society which I know Dave would disagree with so anyway yeah so I didn't real I mean I in a pinch I guess I could get one down the street but anyway yeah I went back to New York my husband and I said that we were already married and got an apartment in the village together and like that was enough for I think we also told our parents that we were going to live with a third friend because that seemed more innocent um but we weren't so it was just us and uh yeah got in a part a tiny apartment in the village really tiny like that like I burst out into tears when I first saw it because my husband had like gone and done the Recon yeah ahead of time um and uh whenever I saw it he had described it to me as it's about as big as your bedroom back home and like I lived in a modest house uh a modest cape codage and so I was like okay we could like both squeeze into like a room and live in a room the size of my bedroom it was not even close to the size of my bedroom and that Cottage so yeah so I burst out crying uh and it was just you know like it's so wild I New York is so much bigger than Boston which I hadn't really been to that many times it's gigantic yeah you know and just just a whole different world and like you have to remember this it's like pre-internet this is pre you know just I'd only ever seen it in movies I I think I'd only ever been there once on one day trip to like a museum um so yeah so I reported to work and uh my first one of my first jobs was to like fetch things from 30 Rock that were in the old late night offices and bring them over to the Ed Sullivan Theater which they were still working on you know right up until the last minute they were like they were bringing in the set but they also had just completely like this this was like a derelict abandoned theater basically and so they had completely restored it and so um in record time in a very very short period yeah a very short time and so it was something that they were just working on right up until the last minute and as I was getting there and moving Dave into his office um Kathleen anchors our set designer was you know moving in the set pieces and so that was just it was a really really cool experience to see you know just that show like just to start my first show on a fresh show that was just starting and um and then you know it it premiered and it was a Smash Hit and uh I got it probably in my mind somewhere oh I'm like a lucky charm you know like this is this is somehow because of like my Good Vibes that I brought to this place no I didn't think that but I did develop that feeling over time I gotta ask you about this though because I mean I appreciate you being um you know playful about this but at the same time farm girl you know head down you know graveyard shifts College getting through it done um you and and and and your alleged husband uh at the time you know working for Comedy Central again an upstart at that point we just had Vinnie favali on uh on the show that's that that's just dropping uh the day after you and I record this uh I mean I mean it's so and then you going and working for at again at the time you talk about Smash Hit All Eyes in America were on The Late Show like it was it was it was massive yeah I I get the impression that at the time you did not understand the gravity of what you were a part of when it comes to the annuals of television history I mean it was it was hard to know you know again like I had no experience in the space and um and also like I just had probably not as much here's the truth probably not as much pop culture experience because I had been working like pretty extensively at jobs since I was like 14.

so I didn't like watch a ton a ton of television in that way you know and so um where I knew Dave from is that like when my parents were still married before they divorced when I was 10.

um we had like a main TV in the house and then my bedroom was like in the den where the second TV was and my dad would come in and watch late night he would sit and try to like watch late night quietly on the edge of the bed where I was sleeping and he would laugh and like shake the bed and wake me up and I'd be like Ugh what are you watching and so I mean and I had to have been young because like from well I was also I was young and half asleep but from my understanding he was watching Letterman from The Electric Company and so it took me like a while I was like why did they put Letterman on late at night when kids can't see him and so then it took me like a little while to be like oh this is a different guy oh his name is Letterman okay he's like a different guy got it got it got it that is so precious that's oh that's that's fantastic so that is my you know that's my earliest memory and then in college like it was the kind of thing where like again I was working the graveyard shift so I went to work at 11.

so I would like maybe catch a couple minutes of it I mostly knew about it from like guy classmates of mine talking about it and like repeating the top 10 lists and you know the bit that Letterman did last night so that was like mostly and again pre-internet so there were no clips to like you know to review or whatever so it was kind of weird to just it was kind of weird you know it it was weird just because like I didn't know it's like when they say like if you don't know what you can do like I I you know if you don't know that you can't walk across a tightrope or whatever you know that you'll just do it or whatever so I know there's a limit there you don't even think about it and you just do things and exactly so I gotta tell you I gotta stop you with that with that comment right there because we've had so many folks um a lot of the writers uh have talked about the Steve Weiner in particular is one I could think of who when he was on the show he talked about the idea that um from the very beginning like from Dave and Merrell right from the very start they like to bring folks in who didn't necessarily have a ton of experience because they weren't uh they didn't build these imaginary boundaries that we build inside of our heads and and and and and limit ourselves they brought in people without a ton of experience uh just for that very reason because the malleable the idea that they could be a little bit more experimental and and maybe do something that isn't conventional uh it's it's very cool to hear that that that seems to be some of the spirit of what got you the gig um you know even even at that point when they were as big as they were uh changing the show the way that they did well for sure I mean I wasn't um I wasn't extroverted all of the time it would be like a situation where I would have to get my courage up to like speak to someone or you know just a little bit and um when so when I first got there I was definitely like sheepish and trying to like lay low and and stay out of the way but I did when I got my courage up and when I had a minute alone to chat with Dave uh early on I was like hey by the way why did you even pick me to be the intern in your office like I we met that day earlier in the summer you asked could I do something and I couldn't do it and so why did you pick me and he was like oh yeah actually I saw your um I saw your resume on the reject file and uh and he was like I looked at your name and I was like this girl has a weird name like just there that's like gonna be trouble for her she has a weird name she went to a not great College which I could identify with like we didn't go to the best colleges in the world um he was like I remember that I said I liked your shoes and you said you got them at Marshalls and you were so like weird and then he just was like like I was gonna go buy those shoes at Marshalls like he was roasting me a little bit but then he was like and then about the car thing I just figured you know you're smart girl you'd figure it out you know if you can't drive the car you'll figure it out you figure it out so um did you ever have to I only ever did one time and I probably could have gotten out of it but the way that I got around it is that we had a receptionist at the time this guy Lonnie Hart okay and uh he was so funny and so great and such a nice guy and like he loved Dave's car and so which car was it or was it a a plethora uh you know there were a few different um a few different ones but the one you drove the one that I drove was a Dodge Viper maybe oh wow yeah okay that's not just a stick shift there's also a learning curve to the learning curve on on that bad boy I mean it's ridiculous I think that's what like a red Dodge Viper I want to say I have a terrible because that's how removed from my universe uh this this all was but anyway um yeah so every day I would cover the phones while Lonnie would go down and park the car and then he would would be back in five minutes you know because the garage was right down the street and so it worked out fine and Dave also had um an another intern at the time and she totally could drive a stick shift and it was fine so you know so whenever it was my turn to park the car I would just get Lonnie hard you collaborated on that project yeah and together together succeeded exactly the story about you getting the job and I mean you you told it so well again you are a broadcaster as well uh with with what you do um you know told expertly how many times in your life do you think you've told that story oh gosh I don't know I mean a million a thousand yeah I was gonna happen a lot a lot because I was gonna say and I know you know people always want to know how do you get that and I'm like it was just luck I mean really like like my resume being in the wrong place at the right time yeah I I appreciate you telling the story to set the stage for everybody here um I certainly don't want to get you to retread things that you have done oh yeah and I got to tell the story again I don't mind well I appreciate it very much but I would rather I'd rather go down some some new roads of things there you haven't talked about if there was if there is one misconception or one thing that um and I'm totally putting you on the spot here but you're a professional you can handle it there was one thing that if there was a misconception or or something that you wish people would ask um about that time um you know what what's something that you haven't talked about when it comes to that particular period of time um that maybe you'd like to kind of get out there ah what would I like people to know about that particular time um I just feel like it was it was an interesting time because there were so many people who were legendary at what they did but then they're all just like folks you know all just like guys um and it was mostly guys like I'm gonna be I'm gonna be real it was mostly always guys which uh will probably talk about a little bit more later um in my journey um nice guys great a lot of great guys um but yeah they were mostly just like regular people and approachable and um you know just a lot of them really willing to share what they knew with me and again in a case where like I would get my courage up and ask somebody like hey can you take a look at this thing that I wrote can you take a look at this joke that I wrote um bill scheft in particular was such a mentor to me but everybody I mean you know I don't Donna Carey is a very it holds a very special place in my heart John Beckerman as well um Rodney Rothman is one of my favorite people in the world remains one of my favorite people in the world he came there after I did um but we are the same age and so uh which was interesting because just I had a couple years there where all of my interns were older than I was and so that was weird and then um Rodney was like the first like person who was my same age and it was kind of like when you realize everyone in your class is the same age in elementary school or whatever but we were sort of like on that level but um yeah just everybody was kind of regular and approachable and like just finding out like what their gig was like you know like Bill shaft was like warming up the audience but also like arranging the monologue and you know and that was really cool to me because that was a separate job then like what the other writers were doing and um yeah and there were a number of amazing women there as well just most of them weren't on the path that I wanted to be on so right um so Jude Brennan Barbara Gaines uh you know tons of amazing women behind the scenes but um those are two very special women to me but they weren't writers so yeah uh well okay so that's that's the good I'm really it's like you're a professional and you know how to segue uh holy smokes um I I'm really really fascinated by the idea of the small town farm girl self professed uh also feral I love how you described yourself 100 feral I mean like and I've said this many times but I'll say it like there were so many things that I thought about I thought about Dave like oh he has a lot of quirky behaviors you know like he has a lot of like does a lot of really quirky things and one time I was telling someone like and they were like well what do you mean and I was like oh for example like when we're walking down the street together he always like jockeys to get on the other side of me like what you know like the side that I'm on he doesn't like it and he like switches it up and they were like described to me what you mean and so I was like showing them like okay so we're walking down the street and then he'll like physically move himself to be outside of me and then they're like no sweetheart that's manners like a man traffic thing right yeah like an old-fashioned guy will walk near the traffic and and I was like oh I never heard of that I don't know what that is you know um but just yeah a lot of things where I was like oh he has like he stands up when you come to the table like at a dinner okay um I never I guess I never saw anyone do that um yes okay so there's a good example of the feralness yet at the same time you knew you wanted to be a comedy writer yeah that's because of the Muppet Show and right on fantastic really yeah I was like well I mean Dick Van Dyke made it seem like it was real easy for a lady with a bow in her hair to be one of three writers on a very important TV show and then the Muppet Show I just loved I loved that it was like a show about a show like behind the scenes at a show and when I was very again when I was very little I wasn't I guess not the smartest little kid but I was like I want to work on The Muppet Show and I like thought that I would like work with the Muppets like Kermit would be my boss and scooter would be my colleague and then when I guess I was like bright enough to read when I got old enough to read the credits and I saw a bunch of like human names and I was like oh oh it's not just Gonzo yes there's like yes yes there's people that are in charge of this got it got it got it got it got it so yeah so then I was like I want to work on The Muppet Show you know I want to work behind the scenes on The Muppet Show so yeah so those were the two things that made me really like be like I wanna do comedy I wanna be a writer I want to make up stories um but it's weird because I don't think I think the only person that ever thought that it was funny was my dad like no one ever told me that I was funny in my life fully through college and me being like at The Late Show um yeah nobody ever was like you're the funniest I mean I was creative but just not never no one ever thought that it was funny except for my dad okay so so uh I I really am excited to explore this uh this element here so there's many examples of writers on the show who started as interns and didn't even necessarily know they weren't even cognizant that they wanted to be a writer but ended up uh it was almost like being part of the family was more important uh and and everything can be kind of kind of learned or evolved after that point but but being the sensibility of of who you were and how you fit in um to the to the to the group um was the most important thing three years you were there and again in when it comes to Late Show at the time of this recording we we've just hit the anniversary of the 29 year mark of of the very first late show on CBS um in that three years uh I hate that we're jumping around but I like that we're jumping around because it's kind of just we're all over the place um at the end of this you're moving over to Rosie right did you leave Late Show to go to Rosie and was were you writing anything were there any elements that you kind of wrote other than your on-screen appearances which we'll get to too but other than that were you contributing to the show in a writing way in any way at all and did you move over to Rosie for that I was uh I I have told this story before so I'll make it quick um Dave speaking of manners Dave was big on sending letters and uh that was one of my main jobs is to write letters from him short sweet letters thanking people whenever he had to ask anyone for anything congratulating people for things he's really old-fashioned and he loved a typewritten letter and so uh that was a huge part of my job and I love doing that again got my courage up to be like hey Dave if I'm writing these letters and they're coming from you in some cases where it's appropriate should they not be funny and he was like I mean I guess but like they need to really be funny like they can't be corny or bad and I was like okay um in other words they kind of got to be in my voice yeah they gotta be in your voice which is like the most important lesson for any writer to learn is that you know you have to it doesn't do in fact Dave told me that like right off the bat it doesn't do you any it can be the most brilliant thing in the world and if it's not right for the person's voice that you're writing it for then it's it's not useful in that in that application so yeah so I started writing jokes into letters and I felt very safe doing it because because he was so particular about the letters he would sit with a stack of letters and a red pen and like make Corrections you know to like how he wanted you to tweak a letter what about God now you're really in college this is the real education right here yes it was like an MFA and he was so great and he would do it like late at night after the show was taped and um had already been put to bed and it was like kind of the last thing that he'd do um before going home so he would like be kind of like relaxed and leisurely about it and talk you through it and say like what you're trying to do here is the rule of Threes but in the rule of Threes it's best to put the funniest thing last you have it in the middle this one you're like telegraphing what the punch line is and then in in this one you know you have extraneous stuff after the funniest word so just cut that back and then once you know all these rules then you can break these rules but you have to know these rules and so it was really really like a fantastic education I am blown away by these words here and as you've told the story like I don't I don't you know the Nick Cage again please go on to the Letterman Channel and watch the Nick Cave Casey talk about the Nick Cage story it is yeah how great I learned those lessons like oh my God but you talking about that right there there are you know well when you go to our listenership dozens but there are thousands tens of thousands of people who if they heard what you just said and maybe one day they will um that is what a moment what a what a beautiful piece of Life a unique moment that many people in the business even to this day Legends what if they're armed for like I was so again like wow right place right he's a comedy Mentor in in such an intimate way yeah unique way yeah and and meanwhile you know I was just um I had just been an intern like seconds ago I got hired at the end of my internship at the Holiday party that was exciting um really and did you know no I didn't know it was like we had our holiday party which was exciting it that was supposed to be the end of my internship and I was like what am I gonna do for work you know I think I'm gonna stay in New York um am I gonna maybe I'll be a CBS page maybe you know that that was like a natural kind of thing to go on to do at that point and so we had um our holiday party was an ice skating party at Walman rink and Central Park and Dave asked me if I wanted to skate around the rink with him and it's so funny it sounds like a like a scene from a romantic comedy but there with zero romance but as we were skating he said have you had a fun time in your internship do you like New York City and I said yes yes and he said would you like to stay and I said yes I'm think I'm gonna stay and then he said would you like to stay in the job that you're doing and keep working in my office and I was like oh yes yeah of course so yeah so it's exciting and I got to come back and tell everyone that I was staying and you know that's exciting Beyond um yeah he's big on like a gesture like a like a you know um which is which is nice because again like growing up on a farm there's not a lot of gestures a not a not a lot of like making you feel like you're plucked uh out of a crowd or whatever and he's really good at that at making you what kind of farm was it Casey a dairy farm oh really yeah um we didn't own the farm we just lived on on the land so I just had like that farm adjacent experience and worked on and off doing things there I guess as much as I could stand when I was a kid but I knew in my heart that I was not ever going to be a farm girl yeah um or a farmer but yeah so writing letters then turned into uh I really started to study like the people that did the monologue the people that contributed to the monologue and so like we had people that would fax in jokes and I would of course like devour them before I brought them in to him and uh the monologue jokes would be on like blue copier paper you know everything that was a monologue joke was on blue paper so that it could be differentiated from anything else can I ask you a question at this point uh were any of them Carson's at that point um because Johnny Carson famously became the most famous faxer that nobody knew about until you know at the end or whatever but but did you ever see any Johnny Carson jokes come across your desk not that I know of not that I know of um other people would sometimes uh I think Steve Allen called one time to ask me to write down a joke um and give it to Dave and I was like okay um a lot of a lot of fun calls uh that was the one of the best parts of working in the office but yeah so I would really study like what went in and then he'd check them off and asked me to run him to Bill shaft so that bill could start building the monologue and so I really had like such a such a um a lucky a lucky position to be in because I was reading that stuff every day and so I started to be like well if these guys can do it I can bang out a page of jokes before like my duties for the day start with like Dave arriving at nine o'clock so I would like come in early get all the newspapers Dave's newspapers because I wasn't gonna like pay for them myself comb through them pick out premises write a page of jokes and uh then I was like giving them to bill shaft and being like hey can you I know you're busy but like when you get a sec can you look at these and see like what holds up and what doesn't work and he was so great about it such a lovely and generous thing to do and then one day he just was like they gotta talk to you like in the middle of the day near rehearsal and I was like okay and he was like um your jokes have been really good lately uh we were light on monologue jokes so I put your jokes on blue paper I passed them in and he was like don't get excited because here's the thing a lot of jokes would be picked through the course of the day and then they would get winnowed down and so he was like I put a page of your jokes in they don't have your name on it so you know let's not worry about it but then after he was like he checked off two of your jokes on your page and I was like oh my God and he was like don't get excited you know it gets widowed weighed down and so I was like okay and so I'm gonna interject here don't get excited it's 27 years later and I'm excited right now holy I know kind of wild it's so wild and then so later he came back from rehearsal and he was like one of your jokes like made it like it's going to the show and I was like oh my God and then he was like so here's what I think we should do if it goes badly we just will pre like shrug our shoulders and pretend it never happened yeah if it goes well I think we should after the show go into Dave's office and tell him what we did and I was like we didn't do anything here I you have done this sir you have done it and he was like okay okay okay but so it was you were the Last Vestige of cover in yeah exactly work it's a week and we schemed um so so anyway um the joke went on the show it was about like it was something about OJ and Kato kaelynn I can't remember specifically what the joke was um but it got a laugh and so then we went in and Dave was like you were absolutely right not to tell me that it was you because it just would have been weird and I would have had like weird like who knows what would have happened but it just would have been weird like you know either I would have picked it to be nice to you and then gotten nervous and can't who knows who knows yeah there would have been something else there yes and he was famous for that like like yeah talk to people uh Mark malkov who worked for for there for a year uh was in the audience he worked for David K's Department he and he talked about like even having familiar certain familiar faces in the sight line uh you know it would that would get in his head for that kind of reason I think that's a great example of how that thinking is from another perspective of the show knowing whose joke it was yeah um you know he had to deal with that with Johnny for sure knowing it was Ronnie's joke you know and so yeah that's a great that's a great point and I think he did it you know probably out of like a protectiveness from because weirdly I think like I think he kind of like divided people into and and I'm gonna be honest I think he divided women into like women that were like being mentored by him and that like women that like made him nervous or so I don't know you know what I mean because he'd be the first ever to be like oh Julia Roberts like wants to go to dinner I'd rather you know I'd rather wax all my hair off my body or whatever you know but um but I wasn't like in the type of women that made him nervous I don't think I think like he and so I think he was like nervous for me I think he was either nervous about you or nervous for you and so I think I fell into the camp of nervous for you and so I think anything that he would have done would have been like in you know in an attempt to be protective um whether or not that's like what I would have wanted him to do or whatever but so anyway in that instance he was like you did the right thing so then it was really nice because Barbara Gaines like wrote up a freelance writer contract for me and how much I was gonna get paid for every joke that I had on the show and then I just you know submitted jokes like in between doing uh you know writing letters and getting lunches and stuff like that so and figuring out who's gonna get 75 because their joke was from a facts perspective put in and and all that like right what what a crazy what a crazy world I mean okay I I I I'm blown away by this now um we're gonna come back to some of these Letterman stories but I uh feel uh compelled to make sure that we talk about the evolution outside of of Late Show for you into what you're doing now with busy and and I mean clearly we're seeing a beautiful launching pad that's been built um I uh Giller Don Giller gets mad at me every time I do this because I I put you on the spot and I said I hope one day we can do this again and we can talk about more of these Amazing Stories here and we will before the show's over today but of course but but please please please come back so we can talk about more about this time um I'm happy to but but at the same time I have to I love the fact that so many folks came on the show we had Callison on not too long ago and I mean the idea you know again a guy right out of the intern program we haven't had Brian teda on but he and I've communicated a couple times again people who have have come on the show some you know it doesn't matter how long they stayed in what capacity but the tools that they were given to then go whether you're a writer whether it was a you know whoever whatever it was uh segment producer um and then move on and and grow and evolve into something like again talking about a college that uh that prepped you for bigger things and and I mean you've become a showrunner since this has happened like holy fantastic and and it just a testament to to the things that you learned there and then the things obviously after that and your skill set um after Letterman how long did you stay at Rosie I was at Rosie the entire time and Daniel Callison who hired me Daniel Callison was our show runner yep and um he had made an agreement not to hire anyone from the late show and Daniel and I weren't like BFFs at you know it wasn't like he wasn't like I have to bring Casey with me or whatever he just called and and said um listen I made an agreement when I left the show not to hire anyone from late show but I've been meeting with Rosie she needs an assistant I just think she'd really like you if you are at all interested in that lateral move um I will personally call Dave and ask if it's okay to make an exception because we don't you know we don't want to step on anyone's toes but I think she'll really like you and so that is what we did and um yeah and and so I got hired as Rosie's assistant again on a brand new show that was like an instant Smash Hit but I the difference is that while I kind of I don't want to say languish because three years is not a long time and I was a young person sure but I did see again guys my age getting made writers at The Late Show that I believed had less experience than I did at the time yeah and um you know and Dave and I talked about it at the time and he kind of was like it's kind of like out of my hands like I don't make those decisions you know um and he was like and yes I am the boss and yes I could say you have to make her a writer but then what is your life gonna be like like working with a bunch of people that are like dead said we had to make her a writer you know is he throwing you into a shark tank essentially exactly so again out of protectiveness I think he sort of like took his hands off so I so three years on I was like you know I'm willing to pay my dues but I think I'm paying my dues like I think I am and I'm seeing guys maybe you have paid your dues yeah yeah maybe that's that's just that natural progression uh yeah you have to feed them at that point yeah and so I was like I'm seeing guys that are younger than me and that have less experience on this show and at all than I do um lapping me and I don't think it's that they're more talented than I am I don't think so so yeah maybe I'm gonna go to to this new show and try my luck and um and so I started as Rosie's assistant and I like to say she like fired slash promoted me within a month because she was like you're too tough tough you are like you're very precise I'm much more casual but I really like you and I like having you work here so like I think I was like made an associate producer very briefly awesome and then um a writing spot came open and they did like Anonymous submissions and I got that writing spot so I was like I just remember our business Affairs office being like your file is so thick this is like your fourth job on this show inside of six months like wild but it's a new show and I mean you've got people who are either figuring out stuff is it's like you you you've kicked up a lot of sand on the bottom of the uh of the of the below the surface of the water and you're just watching it settle to see how it all Lays uh yeah and I'm grateful that happened for you yeah I I had a real Advantage because the thing every new host every new host does this if anyone's listening who's thinking of becoming a host of something maybe we can break the cycle every new host hires a handful of their performer friends to be writers and it so often doesn't work out for a couple reasons because the person's a performer and they have to go off and do that and that that's their dream you know it's like it's very nice to have a job that pays very well and that is steady but the thing is like a lot of performers like I have to go audition I have to go shoot this thing I have to so they're not there a lot so they can't become indispensable in in many ways and then also they're performers so they know how stand-up comedy clubs work and they know how like being in improv groups or whatever it is they do they know how that works but their new brand new to a television show whereas even though I was just a kid I already had like three years of television show experience under my belt and I was like oh this is like there are times that things are due and this is like in order to get like a monologue that's six jokes long this is probably the amount of pages that we're gonna you know need worth of material to so like I knew a lot of that and was able to just generate you know and so when I became a writer there um yeah it was just like I guess I just kind of hit the ground running because I had had like a front row seat to knowing how that worked and I thought I was failing constantly but you know isn't that funny perspective right when you look back and you see that you were actually growing but at the time like it's that again that personal that old age old uh your other winning or you're learning there isn't failure if you choose to not look at failure right as that word you're learning something and and it's so funny our perspectives of things um you clearly were learning so much and and and I love this because I'm about to say something which I I'm almost positive is true the moment you got thrown into the seat you were driving like the moment you were right you were ready for it and and and and and and and you delivered it sounds yeah I just you yeah I mean it Rosie was a wild trip right because Dave was like I would never think that I would say this but Dave was such so much more leisurely because it didn't tape until 5 30 in the afternoon and so rehearsal wasn't until two o'clock in the afternoon and you know and it so it was so much more leisurely Rosie was alive on the air live at 10 A.M in New York City and it had to be done yes it you know so we had to just go in so much earlier and we had to generate so much more so much more quickly and get it approved and get it polished and Get It produced and get it on the air because we're also trying to be topical and so it was like it was really a baptism by fire and Rosie was so great because as I said like I thought I was very nervous about like how am I doing because I really was just a kid and um and this was her first TV show too at some point she said to our head writer Jeanette Barber why is Casey so nervous like her hands shake when she pitches in the morning and it's weird because we know each other and like we like each other and I'm not trying to be scary or whatever why why do you think she's so nervous and Jeanette was like well you know how it is they're they're on 13-week contracts and Rosie was like no I actually don't know about this explain this to me because like this is my first TV show like this and Jeanette was like we picked them up for 13 weeks at a time and if you don't generate enough or you don't have enough successes in the 13 weeks then your options not renewed and then that's it it's a wrap and so she was like so she is a few weeks in and I'm sure on days when she doesn't get anything on the show she feels like it's you know that spells Doom or whatever and Rosie was like oh okay thank you for explaining that to me because that is not something that I was aware of prior to then yeah she and then she said do me a favor go to business Affairs and ask them to write up a contract for her for two years then go have her sign it and tell her to relax and learn how to do this job and so I was able to relax and learn how to do that job I uh I want to kind of set the table for what the time that this is happening like I I can't wait for the time that we have a major well in late nights changing so much right now anyway I'm super curious as to how things are going to go can't wait to have Bill Carter on and discuss this stuff with him because it's fascinating like it's a fascinating time in late night right now and what it's going to look like a year and a half two years from now we don't know um but I'm going on the assumption that late night is still going to be a thing and and I have been waiting for the first Uber Uber late night host that is a woman I and I'm excited about it like the one that is just the one that punches through and and because it will be a culmination of Rosie during the day like and I mean you know there's examples before that but but but Rosie during the day and I'm just talking our lifetime Rosie during the day Ellen during the day and and you look at the Smash Hits and and and the the following and all of that and the personality that it takes to be accepted the times changing all of these things and and um learning to do the job I I love that she in my mind is is setting the table for when this does happen and for your sake and everybody's saying she's talented as I hope it is busy yeah it's really interesting I mean like you know busy tonight the the show that I was the showrunner of with Busy Phillips who's my uh who's my partner on her podcast and creatively we have our main Partners we were friends before uh she Tina Fey and I were the executive producers of busy tonight and it felt kind of shitty to have that show canceled after six months after two 13-week cycles um but also we were in good company that's how long Joan Rivers lasted you know like and I think I think hold on a second if you look at Rose what Rosie did for you uh maybe it might be time again the way that um well and and let's go back to to Letterman like Leno got his ass handed to him the first you know 18 months or whatever it was that you guys were doing your thing right but NBC gave him time to find his voice his his um you know he was the lead-in for an even bigger story when it came to that with Conan O'Brien Conan sweated through his suit for two years until those 13-week commitments and and some of them were week by week you know we've had people who've won the show that worked on that show it was week by week well guess what you can't learn how to do the job when that is happening and and to me uh he didn't give or whoever it was that made the decision didn't give you guys uh the ability to find your voice at that point well we see it I mean like this is you know a little bit of something that like this is a fun podcast and we're talking about fun things but this has been a weird thing for me um late night and comedy variety is something that I've devoted my life to and it's been my entire career and it's something I'm really passionate about but then also as a woman it is wild to me in 2022 we have two women who have late night shows right now we just lost Samantha Bee which I wouldn't categorize as a strictly late night show it was more of a political you know a political satire show in my opinion but we're gonna counter right but we just lost Samantha Bee so now we have Amber Ruffin in zoo way and they're both once a week on apps you know and and so I'm like what the is that you know like what that's insane and so you know and I think like Lilly Singh okay she wasn't successful over on NBC and they gave her what was she on a year or two I think she had a full year a full year but did you watch that show um I did watch I did watch it sometimes as much as I could yeah I just didn't connect with it personally but exactly and I think it was one of those things where they were like maybe like listen Lilly Singh is a huge star she was a huge Star on YouTube she didn't actually need the smaller audience of that time slot on right on television and so I think they were trying to like you know leverage her YouTube success not maybe not realizing like it doesn't translate in the same way and so I actually my heart went out to her because like on YouTube it was about Lilly Singh and so then when you sit her down and tell her to interview Salma Hayek or you know whoever she's interviewing that's just not something that she had been doing and it would take her time to you know and again like it would take her time to develop a comedic voice that would like appeal to a television audience and so they made such a big deal of the fact that they gave the show to her but they didn't make a big deal of her and like teaching her or you know just letting her find her groove she didn't need to be taught anything she needed to be allowed to find her groove but you know it how are you going to do that when you just know that your show is like a ticking Time Bomb you know I just and so that has never happened for uh very many women I know we've been we've been lucky I think Monique had a late night show for several years and Wanda Sykes had a late night show for several years but never certainly you know on a major Network every single night like where it's not a 50 50 situation you know we there's there were multiple jimmies you know like that's that's like busy and I always joke about how they were like double the amount of jimmies than there were women in late night at all you know and and we love them we love Jimmy but it's just so I don't know where it's going um but I do know that and this is something that I've talked about a lot on the podcast like I'm increasingly like looking at Tick Tock and Facebook where women are turning to like build their own table so many women especially over the pandemic have come to podcasting not just as talent but as audiences and I think it's because television likes to leave things on the table sometimes and the half of our country half of our world are women who feel apparently underserved by the and that is as much as I loved late show and as much as I love the jimmies and Conan and everyone Stephen everyone who's ever had a late night show I've never felt like any of those were sickly for me I felt like you know I was sort of um appreciating what I could about them that's one reason I love the thing that Seth Meyers does where he has like his writers out to do material that he could never do yeah material I can't say whatever yeah and so I think that's such a genius a genius bit because you know My Philosophy that I developed really early on working for Rosie was like oh here's here's the recipe for Success on this show we need to do something that could not or would not be done on any other show and run with it and run it all the way to the field goal well I wanna I wanna just throw something back to what you just said before because I want to continue on this the other thing about that bit that I love so much is it also feels like like the show's name the heritage of it's 40 years old it's late night yeah um and I think I think uh don't get me wrong I like what Jimmy did with it I love what Conan did with it I thought Conan continued on uh what late night was um then it Jimmy's show was very different than what late night was um you know I could see David Letterman back then if they had thought of saying stuff I couldn't say although back then he could almost say anything changed so much yeah um I I could see him at late night doing that bit and then you have Kathleen anchors come out or or you know if there were female writers at that point you know whoever the equivalent was um and he did that with people like Barbara Gaines along the way and and all of that um that Seth doing that feels like it is a real nod and and I don't recognize Late Night with Seth Meyers um the way that I recognize Late Night with David Letterman very often that is one of the the the the the the few examples where I think that it actually translates to the show itself um so I just I just want to throw that out there real quick but I want to go back to um you know do you think it's going to take like again doing this work five nights a week four nights a week whatever it is it's grueling you're mining for gold and then taking the gold and throwing it on the ground so you can go mine for new gold like very hectic it's Breakneck yeah I almost feel like it's going to take someone like Tina Fey or Amy Poehler or someone like that who is already at the mountain going okay I'm gonna host a late night show now and then and and and and and break through or break the you know the glass whatever you want to call it I almost feel like one of the ways that this could actually happen is if someone like that would be the the flag bearer yeah but people who are at that level like people talk about Seinfeld having a Atlanta Chase I don't want to work that hard I don't want to do that you need to do that right Amy well they're both really busy doing things that they do and like trying to also make shows for other people to like arrive speakers already yeah rise to that level so um yeah and I imagine there probably would have been a time where I imagine I don't I could ask her I could text her and ask was there ever a Time Tina when you would have jumped onto a late night show and like taken it like tried to helmet late night show and yeah would you take it over for Dave if given the opportunity exactly yeah but I'm wondering like if if that time ever existed where Tina was like yeah I could see myself doing a late night show if at that point the powers that be were like no she's not ready or you know what I mean like there is this like there's this um to which I would have said you there's like this what does someone have to do ready oh my God there's this Readiness thing you know it with women like I think that women are seen as and this isn't Universal certainly I don't think everyone thinks this yeah and I uh I don't think that it's the case every time but I do think that there's a trend where we think women aren't ready for anything for like way too long until they're way way way way way too overqualified compared to like their peers in that and then we think they're too old you know so like the window in which a woman can do anything is like feels like a year and then you know and we just haven't cracked it yet the presidency I've always said that like late night television is a lot like the presidency everybody dreams of becoming that one day and uh we haven't had a woman do it yet so you know only a few people get to do it and uh so far not a woman for a very long time I wonder like this this this conversation makes me wonder if it's something that because I think it's important it needs to happen I want it to happen like of course I adore Tina Fey like like there's an example of somebody who I I I worship the comedy ground that she walks on I I love machine and I love 30 Rock and and oh so like so she's just an example of of of of of quite a few that I have this regard for I can't wait to see it I always wonder if it's something as simple as the demo like like women don't enjoy staying up to watch this stuff versus versus men and that skews it right there or is it just so intrinsically um the way that it's always been and I'm not trying to to throw anybody under anything but yeah but you know or is it just we need to change the entire culture or is it a combination of both I don't know yeah I think it's a combination of a lot of things I think that we know I think Studies have shown that women have less free time during the day to um to expend on watching television I think it's about an hour women have like an hour or less that they uh that they can devote to Leisure um I think that uh it's something that we're not used to but you know again prior to Conan O'Brien we'd never had a red-headed talk show host either and he took some getting used to so you know um I think it's that uh I think I think it's bias I think some is in uh some is obvious bias and some is not when uh they had me he had me doing press for busy tonight and I remember talking to a journalist who um said ask me the question um so Conan does his podcast and Jimmy Fallon does his like uh bonus material on YouTube and he was naming all these things all these adjuncts that all these late night hosts do to extend their brands yes but busy is a mother and she's very busy but is there anything like that she would do if she had the time I was like sir all of those people you just named are also parents yeah they also are should be busy raising their children they should be you know but it's just like that's yeah like just an attitude that that guy woke up with that day like this woman should be watching her kids but if she didn't have to if she had the luxury of pawning her kids off onto a staff what would she do to make me more interested in her and so I have a size 12 foot and God knows I know how to put it in my mouth I swear to God uh that is one of the places that I fear the very most that I put my my foot in my mouth and say something like that I I I I that I oh if I ever do something like that it's obviously going to be inadvertent because you know I I don't think I'm I'm a pretty thoughtful man uh who isn't a monster and you know again I host a men's mental Wellness podcast sure but I see due to the pathways that have been created uh in the time that we were raised again gen xer raised some of the some of us were raised on porkies and meatballs yeah sure and so but that question literally made Shivers go up my spine and I I fear that I'm gonna be one of those guys that inadvertently says something just because of the pathways that have been created in my head growing up right here astounding to me there's just the fact that you would even like worry that you would say something like that is like that's encouraging to me um you know what I mean most people some people I think are just like no that's really you know that's how it is like you know just these are really locked into the and so it's hard to break out of it's it's really hard to break out of and then um the thing that I mentioned earlier like sort of feeling like when I'm watching late night like a lot of it is very funny to me but some of it I'm like this isn't for me and it isn't exactly addressing my needs as a viewer and what I want to see as a viewer and um and like I get that right because like clearly as I was saying like my guy classmates from college were like oh did you see Letterman last night he did this this this this like oh I can't think of a more genius idea than a top 10 list to appeal to guys who love ranking things in lists more than anything more than I've ever loved anything any member of my family a guy loves to make a list you know and so that so makes sense you know what I mean it's like whenever I mean if we're ever at a cocktail party together keep your eyes on me because if two guys start talking about like the top five guitar soloists of all time even though I do have like expertise I feel to contribute to that conversation I will straight up walk away from the conversation because there's no way I'm ever getting in on it there's no way they're gonna let me contribute one of the top five guitarists of all time okay I'm fascinated by this first off because you said that you and I there's a potential for you and I to be at a cocktail party together which I hope happens that'll be fun I feel like we're gonna be the Muppet Show I think we're gonna be uh uh you know the old men up there let's Adler and uh Waldorf yeah uh we're gonna be up there you know I would love that that would be that's my idea of a fun evening um but second uh that astounds me because you have such a a a a a perfect perspective as you said let's you know okay to guys talking about uh you know these guitar solos first off I'm a huge music guy so I'm like oh I want to get in on this right now but second I love like I I say this about my wife all the time I got a wife that'll play Mario cart with me for a half hour before we go to bed I like I I I've hit the jackpot dream life when I yes and when I okay you talk about the top five guitar solos Not only would I be like oh come on let's talk about this because I want to know the different perspective yeah um but that's that's astounding to me that you have the the wherewithal or the present um the ability to be so present and and and aware that you don't think that you would get a word in which God damn we gotta change that because because to me the collaboration and and the the different opinions are are that's color that's living Life in Color rather than black and white as far as I'm concerned I I I love that we're talking about this oh my God this is such a great conversation and I appreciate the fact that you are a standard Bearer for this you are somebody who is literally um you know it's gone beyond oh yeah I was a writer for Elena show random all that you're you're you're helping to to to rewrite the culture out there when it comes to this and make it better I'm trying I'm trying I'm at least trying to point it out I mean when you know Meryl Marco we've talked there is no Dave there is no original Morning Show or late show in the way that we know it without Meryl Marco and I'd like to remind people that she is basically the mother of modern late night television and you know she's like she invented stupid tricks yes you know like that she was she was the brains in many ways and I think Dave would say that um you know but it's just this thing where like you know people are focusing on him and and of course he's he's the star he's the talent sure but it's such it's a weird thing to me um yeah that it's still so hard to get in on that conversation oh God okay I apologize for interrupting no that's okay I want to ask you this question about Ellen and then I want to go back to what you were just saying okay okay sure sure it's such a I loved Ellen's show um I I didn't watch it every day I I've got a I've got a financial firm and other things that I do and all that stuff so I didn't watch interview but I would make a point of uh it would be on the PVR and I would make a point to go through like I really really enjoyed Ellen's show yeah now my question for you because you are an educated uh answerer when it comes to this um I always said to myself that there could be the argument to be made that because the David Letterman show in the morning it was so foreign it was a different time I get it yeah did not work at all however basically the exact same show became a culture changing Smash Hit at late night right okay as far as I'm concerned with Ellen you talk we talk about this progression that has happened along the way of which Rosie became and then I think Ellen then came in afterwards and smashed even harder yeah I have asked myself would Ellen's show have been a hit at late night or is it really just the fact that you know Late Show would not be a hit during the day and Ellen would not be a hit at night for some of these uh just the culture that we we live in in the demographics and all of that kind of stuff do you think Ellen would have been a hit at night uh that's a really good question let me let me go back a little bit myself and say without Rosie there was no Ellen Rosie and my Rosie would never say this I'm saying this Rosie was the template for Ellen and you know and it was a smash success it remained a smash success the entire time um she left of her own accord because it was a lot of work and she just wanted to have a quieter life and telepictures signed on you know signed up Ellen and it's a lot of the same producers a lot of the same and so I think the spirit of the show uh Rosie was the template for Ellen um I think Rosie did a lot of amazing other things that like weren't that aren't exactly a match for like Ellen's skills and I think Ellen uh then brought a lot of things that were like her unique skills to that show but they're completely different stand-ups as well by the way like and so it's the voice thing we were talking about yeah but you know same company same kind of like ethos I think that Fallon is basically Ellen and Rosie and I oh isn't that interesting yeah I think that it is and I think there is no there is no probably Fallon without Ellen or Rosie and um so then the question becomes does it work in late night because it's a guy or does it work in late night because they gave that guy a chance to keep doing it right or does it you know would it work in the daytime and those Daytime Nighttime like linear times like they're they become less and less important right because like any everybody just watches things yeah exactly exactly so like so those things like I mean my kids don't even call shows like they don't call them TV shows they're they just you know because they just call them shows because they don't watch them on TVs normally um so it's all they're all very very close kissing cousins those three shows and so the question is would Ellen have worked in late night would Jimmy have worked in the daytime does Jimmy work at night because he's a guy uh does Ellen work during the day because she's Ellen um I don't know we and we'll never know the answers really because no one ever tried it you know um and I don't I can't say that I can blame anyone like why would Ellen try to like jump her show from daytime to night time you know but what I can say is and like and listen I'm no my heart goes out to anyone that feels like they had a rough time at Ellen I know a lot of the folks that work there I love a lot of the folks that worked there um but do I am I also like did she get a harder like did she get a worse rap for like yeah for like I you know people are like she was you know the queen of nice and I'm like no actually Rosie was the queen of nice but she was also tough you know she was a tough business lady yeah but like yeah exactly and people are like who it is Ellen presented herself as nice but it turns out that maybe she wasn't nice and I'm like how many conversations are we having about how nice guys are behind the scenes of their late night shows like I don't we've never I mean a little bit I guess there have been like little things that have not little but there have been things that have happened behind the scenes that shows here and there but I'm thinking like in my entire lifetime maybe like once or twice did any any news about any guy TV hosts comedy variety hosts did like their behavior made news only a couple times you know and that's something that needs to be shown up as well um you know and I think in this culture that we live in right now I if the pendulum is swung so far in this direction in so many different things uh that I think that the truth or the the lessons that need to be learned are kind of over here and and by the way one of the lessons that we need to learn is that everyone needs to treat everyone like gold behind the scenes duh but I'm just saying when we're talking about inequality yes there's been plenty of bad behavior but I've really only seen one person's Behavior repeatedly picked apart and I'm not condoning anyone's bad behavior if no if that allegedly happened I'm just saying um there's been plenty of bad behavior yeah and and I'm glad that things are being talked about in an awareness is being created so hopefully things moving forward um you know I I love I love that we've evolved you know we look at we talk about this on the men's mental Wellness podcast all the time you know the the the example of fathers that we have seen um you know as gen xers yeah versus like I think about Bill bershow F is for family and and you know he basically is is just telling anecdotes from his life growing right and and and I think that many times um you know these examples that we've been given um and and how we've evolved because of them um aren't given consideration for the fact that hey at least we're evolving at least we're becoming aware of this stuff and at least now once we're aware of it we can then start uh patching holes in the bottom of the rowboat and and making things better you are certainly doing that I I we could do this all day I thought all day yes podcast this is this is so good I love them all but you know again this one is just it's so special to me um having you on here and and I just appreciate everything that you're doing um I want to uh ask uh kind of two more questions about the present and then I want to go back to one thing I gotta there's one thing I gotta ask you about okay okay and uh so so you and busy doing your thing and I'm gonna truncate it just for the sake of time a little bit correct me if I get any mistakes here sure busy gets the show uh you know it doesn't isn't given the time to find its voice um unfortunately cut short you two are like no we've got this Synergy where where we're uh in a place where we want to keep things moving forward and so um and then the pandemic hits yeah the podcast uh comes out and it's and it's lovely it's fantastic highly highly recommended we're gonna put links to this uh in our and who are we we got nothing right yet but but it's coming it's it's totally coming um we're gonna put links to it and all that um Nine episodes in ten episodes in something like that you have David Letterman as a guest on the podcast he famously does not do these things unless you're Al Franken national public radio or or something that is really I hate using this term when it comes to Dave uh on brand yeah he doesn't do this stuff yeah and yet here it is he comes on I assume uh correct me if I'm wrong he's doing his old friend and mentee Casey a solid said making busy go holy David Letterman's coming on the podcast thank you buddy like to me that's how that goes um correct me if any of those things are wrong and and second how did it feel to have him on there all these years later Having learned all the lessons that you've learned uh it's a it's a fantastic episode we're gonna we're gonna link to it highly recommend it to any Letterman fan to listen to uh I I love it so much because of the things that you guys talk about it's it's it's playful in a reverend but then it also gets kind of deep and there's some substance stuff there too how did that feel for you well it's always wonderful to feel like a grown-up um around someone that you were such a kid it uh you know like I had grown up we can actually back up a tiny bit is that um when busy tonight was still on the air I got a phone call one day um and it I picked up the phone and he said uh Casey this is Dave Letterman we used to work together do you remember me and I said yes we have spoken since uh since those days a few times and he was like listen anyway he was like I just want to say congratulations on this show busy tonight someone told me to check it out because they it reminded them of the energy of the morning show and uh I was watching an episode and I was like I dig this show I like this lady that's hosting it it's fun and then I see oh my old assistant is the showrunner and he was like I'm gonna be coming to LA in the next couple weeks can I be a guest on the show and I said I would love that so much unfortunately the show has already been canceled and uh like the morning show it does have that same energy the canceled energy so um so we won't be able to have you as a guest on the show and he was like shoot well can I do anything can I and I was like you know we have this phone called the Oprah phone um uh Oprah's called on it um maybe you would want to call on the over phone and he was like oh no I can't call on the Oprah phone and he was like I'm gonna just send a video I'm gonna send a video and so he sent a video just like roasting e being like hey busy it's Dave Letterman uh I love your show it's so great he is so stupid because at that point we had like busy had said publicly the show's canceled it's cold and talking about NBC when his Tonight Show got canceled like yeah exactly yeah and he was like you'll be fine I don't know what's gonna happen with E I mean they clearly make bad decisions so you know but he was like I just wanted to say I'm a fan and like I was looking forward to coming on the show uh so we'll just have to do something else together um so that was really cool and I think it was like especially cool for busy because like her her parents were a huge Dave fans she cried talking about it on the podcast yeah yeah really right to the heart yeah so um so that was lovely and that was a lovely thing to do do but also um what you didn't see on the show is that when he did come to La he was like I want you to like meet with my producers and you know just talk about like talk about your ideas and you know because he had his his Netflix show happening and um and so you know besides what happened on the air and what happened on the podcast he also like just set us up with a meeting um and and talking to like his Netflix exec and and uh just people that he knew and stuff where we just it just felt good for us to say like here's the parts of the show that we loved that we think people women deserve to have you know deserve to have every day um here's what we think and and it was just really helpful to like solidify those ideas and have people be like yeah yeah that's that's right that's what was good about that show that you're making and um so yeah then the our original idea was to just try to continue the show but like not necessarily on television because who needs a Network anymore you know um that spirit I think survives into the podcast by the way I think yes I think that is maybe the if there's a an epicenter of the fire uh that that is burning that is your show I think that that's probably what it is uh the the the the the idea of um you know you're winning or you're learning well we've learned and we've learned that this is awesome and we're just gonna keep it going yeah just like you know and and giving people what they want and also like doing what we want and we produce the podcast independently we we had been doing it with a company and then when you know when that deal was up we met with a number of other companies that I think like we could have had a good time working with but we were like actually it'd be like kind of an adventure to figure out how to do this on our own but also we could figure out like what's real and what's because we didn't know we were new to the podcast game and so yeah so we learned like a lot of the things that people tell you like cost a million dollars or that you have to do you know you're doing a podcast right here do you have like a giant conglomeration hey Walter no no I'm actually saying that but I'm also serious like like Jay Ryan does the cars and comedy show we've got some other people we've we're we're actually actively talking about the idea of the Letterman podcast Network and and and and and doing kind of the Team Coco model but with creators who are doing exactly what you're talking about here and having something like that um uh in place um because you know having some infrastructure is great but it's got to be on our terms because we got to still have that freedom to be able to do that where you cut through all that you're talking about here right to actually get that content out the way you want it to be and with its own voice having the time to find its own voice you're you're preaching to the choir right now that is exactly what what we're trying to do here we were just like we we want to be able to say when we're canceled you know that's like that was like the bottom line uh we want to be the ones to say okay let's call it on this and and it's been a couple years and we are still doing it and you know so again building our own small table that doesn't look exactly like the table we all envisioned for ourselves to be sitting at but also there's you know the way that we've done it there's no one to try to talk over I'm not trying to join a conversation about the five best guitarists to no avail by the way who is your do you have a favorite guitar solo of all time a favorite guitar still of all time I mean I mean Prince's guitar solo and purple rain is amazing but it's actually um you'll want to watch the first time the songs performed uh at First Avenue in Minneapolis uh the first time that he was like debuting his band with Wendy melvoin joining that's a really exciting version of that guitar solo I know Purple Rain is like so basic for like a prince fan um but it but I'm saying that because everybody yeah and they can they can sort of uh they can sort of um have some familiar familiarity with it and be like yeah yeah I know that song um I don't want to name some obscure song that No One's Gonna know but I do encourage you to look up the initial performance of purple rain at First Avenue with uh I believe she was 19 years old the 19 year old Wendy melvoian uh debuting with the revolution oh my God I I adore you I adore this this is so much fun um and the next time you come on and there will be a next time if I have anything to say about it we will let's talk let's let's go obscure let's talk about obscure stuff it's uh oh I'd love to do that uh but anyway you again it's like you're a professional holy cow in a lot of Segway um we talk about um the the prince story again everybody after not now honestly wait till the podcast is done no wait hold on after you like share subscribe so I don't ever have to ask you to do that again once we get a certain that I don't have to also download it folks download it there you go it matters and and the YouTube and and share it and all of the things and anyway um after you hopefully you've watched it actually beforehand Casey talks about on her uh moments favorite moments um that Walter and the team have put up on the Letterman channel on the YouTube uh she talks about the story with Prince you're all wet I'm okay phenomenal way to speak to a demigod um the question I have for you he performed now that there's some there's some the famousness about everything and then there's some infamy about everything um you were the gal who at that time was also getting Dave Coffey and also making sure everything was copacetic um Prince called an audible during that performance where he didn't have to go and maybe interact with Dave because he didn't like some of the things that were being said about the symbol yeah that's the that's the um allegedly but as reported on 60 Minutes so I think it's yeah yeah but you were there parents there Prince yelling as he leaves apparently Dave yelling in the hallway or something like that afterwards do you remember any of the static after that performance no none of that happened I don't think not to like call anyone out um you know that that remembered it that way because memory is a funny thing um but it was my job to stick by Dave's side when I worked there and so when he went up to his dressing room I was two steps behind him and stood outside his dressing room waiting for him to come out in what we used to call his play clothes which would be sweatpants and Formula One racing t-shirt and sneakers um and there was no yelling like irritated that in the segment I think he had planned to go over and talk to Prince the artist formerly known as Prince and um and Prince um mind shooting himself in the head and got dragged off stage by uh two of the guys that were were in his crew yes and so that cut out the portion the talking portion and so that made the segment shorter and so they had to make up time frustrating very frustrating and approaching like that yeah uh a little frustrating but nobody yelled at anyone Dave wouldn't never yell at any I'm not I'm not saying Dave would never yell at anyone that's not true Dave would never yell at a guess certainly um you know and and some of them probably deserved to be yelled at but never in all my time did I ever see him say anything rude or untoward to a guest you know I said he's like the king of manners and uh yeah so not to like and like I know the guy that I'm saying that said that there was yelling I'm a fan of his as well and I love that guy and so not to like not to poo poo his memory of how things happened but there was no yelling and also also Prince I think was like a pretty Shy Guy and um and so I'm sure in some ways he was just like always looking for ways to get out of talking to people you know um it is much like Dave by the way yeah exactly likely it is weird to me that like Dave wasn't his favorite and I also think Rosie wasn't his favorite um because he did repeatedly go on Leno over the years and repeatedly went on Ellen over the years and uh didn't appear on Dave or Rosie that often and uh I would have preferred had he made multiple appearances on both shows but he was uh I think he I don't know maybe it was like uh maybe his New York Vibes made him nervous or I don't know well magnetic polarity works both ways it can put people together and it can also you know keep people apart that kind of thing yeah yeah um Casey this has been an absolute Delight for me um I think you know you probably see I wear authenticity on my um on my on my sleeve and I'm just I'm just beaming saying this has been so much fun uh an honor I'm not even being hyperbolist when I say this an honor to talk to you about this um you are an extremely educated mind in in this thing that so many of us love uh which is which is late night entertainment and and the talk show stuff and have cut your teeth in the greatest franchise ever and it's so fascinating to talk to folks um who have done that I just can't thank you enough for appearing on the Letterman podcast together anything else you wanna you wanna throw out there before I do a quick outro and we can say our goodbye privately no it's been my pleasure I'm happy to come back um yeah I really I feel very lucky I learned a lot there and uh every time I talked to Dave that is usually uh that's the overarching message is that I learned a lot there and uh and I didn't know the first day I got there about really anything you know um not just about television but just about life and and living anywhere uh besides adjacent to a farm so yeah so I I just I learned a lot and I feel very lucky for the lessons that I learned and continue to learn um even when they frustrate me yeah as I think I expressed in this podcast but uh you know maybe maybe someone will learn a little something from me and we'll finally crack the code inches forward man that's all everything is and those inches have have frustrations along the way because they're not happening fast enough but yeah I I uh I hear you and I appreciate what you're saying there so much um I believe what you just said by the way is I people have always said to me oh you're gonna get Dave one day I don't know that that is gonna happen that's not the goal the goal is to uh I mean don't get me wrong I'd love to I love that moment I'll tell you one day about the moment that I had with them there that depicted uh in the pick behind us but uh you know I I have been preparing silently in my head in the background in case it ever happens because you never know what might happen and one of the things that I know intrinsically that I can't do is just throw out any compliments uh and and talk about how great he is and all that kind of stuff because that's just it's common knowledge he hates that what you just said there Casey I think is one of these rare things I think it's a compliment that David Letterman would accept and and you you talking about uh what you learned there and how he I think I think he would actually accept that and take great pride in what you just said there and it was so uh wonderfully said um thank you so much for for doing that at the end here it's a great great uh Coda um this has been another episode of The Lettermen podcast once again again until until enough people have liked and shared it where I don't have to ask that anymore would you mind liking whatever platform just like it please share it cross platforms I don't care however you want to do it uh we're non-denominational here whether it's the YouTubes the apples the spotifys or anything else that you have consumed this lovely piece of content no thanks to myself all thanks to our guests um Casey St August with a lovely name not a weird name a lovely name um I just thank you so much for coming on I thank all the viewers and listeners um thank you for the support so far uh a special shout out to Don Giller again who who fact checks us I appreciate that um this has been a great ride the previous hour and a bit or hour and a half almost two hours actually uh has been evidence of that and thank you for joining us on it uh this has been another episode of The Lettermen podcast uh with Mike Chisholm coincidentally I am Mike Chisholm thank you and good night oh overcoat and Underpants