Jeff Martin Part 2 with special appearance by Don Giller

Okay, Rupert, David Letterman hasn't been on CBS for years, yet his merchandise is still killing it. The only place that you can get official Letterman Late Show with David Letterman merchandise is right here at the Hello Deli. How do people get this merchandise other than coming in here? Obviously, you want to come in here. If you're in New York, All right. come to the Ed Sullivan Theater, come to uh the Hello Deli, get yourself a Paul Shaffer sandwich, uh or something else, and then buy some merchandise. If people can't make it to New York, what's the best way to get some of this merchandise? Well, they can get it on my website, um hellodeli.com. Yep. And order it there. Now, do you pack that yourself? Do you pack it uh this merchandise and send it off to people yourself? I I do. Okay, if um if people ask you to add onions to the order, will you add onions to the order? Absolutely. That sounds great. Uh the Hello Deli is the sponsor of the Letterman podcast. We are so grateful for that, Rupert. We're so grateful for you. And on a personal note, thank you for the years and years and years of entertainment that you have brought, not just American and Canadian, but brought the world. Thank you very, very much.

My pleasure. Thank you for watching. Absolutely. La la la. Welcome once again to the Letterman podcast. My name is Mike Chisholm. Uh I'm not going to give you very much of an intro this week because we are just continuing the conversation uh that we started with Jeff Martin last week. Um man, if there was a time to go into the weeds uh about Late Night with David Letterman, um the person that I want to do it with is Jeff Martin. Among others, I mean, my gosh, uh but but but you think about um what Jeff brought to the table for these episodes. And he talks about it a little bit in in part two here, where I mean, he was loaded for bear. And we uh we're going to start with the last few seconds of uh of the last episode where it where it left off, and then just kind of go from there with an even longer episode. We actually went uh double the time after he kind of made that hey, can I can I just start riffing and then and then going?

Yeah, we yes, please do Jeff. And another hour and 40 some odd minutes. And and here's the cool part about this episode. Don Giller's a big part of it and this is the stuff that I love so so much. Clearly I bring enthusiasm and and and and energy and all this stuff that if I if I have any skills whatsoever, I probably just listen to them actually. But Don has this knowledge that is so rich and deep and every time he comes in and starts asking these questions like when he brought up the talking dog reference and and some of these other references that that that he talked about. Great moment. I just love having Don and and and his insights and and the facts and stuff are great that he feeds the shows and and and we're having fun with that. But when he actually pops on and starts asking questions of the guest, I think that's a really special thing for all of us enthusiasts of David Letterman to see that to see Don interacting with some of these legends and and and using his point of view.

Um Obviously it it it makes our show significantly better having having his mind involved in it and and his curiosities as well. So there there's a lot of that in this episode more than we've ever had. And Jeff talks about all sorts of stuff. Letterman of course some more Conan stuff. Norm we talk about Norm Macdonald. We talk about his involvement with Craig Ferguson. And and of course you know lots and lots and lots and lots of of of of Letterman stuff. And one of my favorite parts is him talking about how he met his wife and the story behind that. Very cool story. We even get a little sentimental at the end. I just appreciate that Jeff allowed us to go down that path a little bit and and was way open and vulnerable. Uh Lots of good stuff with the Letterman podcast Jeff Martin part two. Thank you very much for everybody out there who is trying to to help us be better. We appreciate that and enjoy.

The Letterman podcast Jeff Martin part two. And And can I can I just flit around and cuz these names came up. Please. Like this is this is heaven. This is a beautiful beautiful show. Well you know I I I think if I'm ever going to do it this would appear to be the place. Outstanding. Anytime you like sir by the way standing invitation to come back whenever you want. So I I I I'm I'm I'm sure you Release the debris. This is the place. Well well it since you invited me I you know sort of thought about it all weekend so I need to do this so I can think about something else. That's good. I we are happy to be the receptacle. Just just everything everything I heard talking to the the only guys who were there when I was there. Yeah. You know I just remember it all so clearly of course and let's see oh well the you talked Kathleen Ankers who would build the props. Um I And the set the set as well Emmy award-winning set the whole nine yards.

She is a she was Yeah. She was she was very elegant little older British lady and and uh she uh I had a bit we would do occasionally Dave's Wheel of Fun and it would have uh uh he'd spin it and you know all right what you know he different bits and supposedly he'd go like you know who will chance reward. Just one of those nice little turns. That's a great turn of phrase. Yeah the the the the show would just you know the toss out of its back pocket that that I always you know loved before I worked there. Anyway, and and there was obviously a stagehand working behind, you know, it'd stop it at the predetermined place, you know. Yeah. But uh so we but we'd had to think of, okay, what are different fillers? And I thought of one that was just uh you know, okay, one Liverville Theater. And the idea was just a a little puppet theater with uh pieces of liver on sticks. You know, and they're just bouncing back and forth. And you know, that and and it didn't come up on the wheel. So uh so it only, you know, we only saw it for like 3 seconds.

So it it it was it was what it was intended to be, just just an oddball Yeah. filler. But then Kathleen uh built it. She she had to stiffen the liver, you know. As one does. Yeah. Yeah, and and as they say. And and and and she had little costumes and just even in passing I noticed one of them had on a cowboy hat and a sheriff's badge. And I just and I just thought that, you know, I wish I'd I'd gone and grabbed it and saved it cuz I just thought that is that is the most wonderful thing uh I've I've ever seen, you know, I just I I uh my my love for Kathleen uh anchors grew even greater at at at that moment. So, yeah, what a what a what a And you know, uh but you would just have good luck with people who turned out to be good performers. Uh uh I I I had great luck with Anton Fig. Yeah. There's a good if you go on to Don Giller's channel, I believe, there's a there's a great thing with the exchange with you guys. Um you were you were doing an interview at the desk with Dave as as a That was a bit of that was that was that was a bit I wrote that that went well.

That was just the idea was The carpool book? Is that what it was? Mhm. The carpool book? Yes. Yes. Yeah, I I I'd written you know I'd written a book about the conceit was I'd written a book about carpools, something like that. And I was I was just a guest but but the gag was Dave would ask me questions and Antoine would answer them. And Dave would say, you know, well I was actually addressing our guest. Yeah, but you're you're looking right at me, too, when you do it, you know. It It It's on It's on the Letterman channel. And uh Oh, that one is Yeah, that that one might be on your That one might be on your It is That That is on the Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another one I'd love to see Another one I did another one uh that was one one one that I I remember fondly that was uh let's see I There'd been something an item in a newspaper that Morey Amsterdam collects who plays the cello collects cello-related statuettes.

That was the article and I'm looking at that and I'm thinking and you know, and the the way the piece evolved was, you know, and I thought this is interesting. I wondered if people on our staff had hobbies. Paul, did you have one? He goes, yes, I have in fact as you might expect I collect piano-related statuettes. It It sort of builds slowly, you know, and he's just got I got hundreds of these things, you know. And he says, Biff, how about you? And Biff says, yeah, Dave, I I collect little statuettes of Morey Amsterdam. He's got them. You know, you got a favorite? This one I'm playing the I think this one I'm playing the cello. I mean Not as many as Paul but I'M GETTING THERE. AND this was an an ad-lib from Biff, God bless him, which was Dave said, so you you you like this hobby? You enjoy it? And Biff says, couldn't think of anything better to do. Which which got a reaction from Dave. And then, all right, well I think we got time for one more. What about you, Antoine? And Antoine of goes, "Well, this is really a coincidence. I collect articles about Morey Amsterdam's collection of cello-related related statues."

You know, he shows Dave a few you know, "Here's the one you just read." Dave, "Wow, you're really on the ball, you know." "I try to be." And here's another you know, he has couple more. He goes, "How many do you have?" "How many do you have total?" And Anton says, "Three." But but this uh this takes up all my free time, surprisingly. Anyway, it it it was well performed, it went well. And a nice memory also is uh David rehearsal. Uh getting a good response from the crew, and he kind of just said, "Pretty cute." to himself. And and afterwards, very he only he didn't do this five times, but he he called me into the office and uh and said, "So, uh how'd you think that went?" And of course I'm thinking, "I thought it killed." You know. Yeah. That went great. But uh you know, I just And you just realize, "Okay, good. That's that's his uh that's his way of saying uh Great job. Good job. Yeah, that's that's a nice pat on the back. So, let me uh boy, if I could one more uh I got the gardener going outside. Are we okay? I'm fine.

Okay. The um uh one more another bit so I remember freely. I I didn't I I did my share on like the repeatables, you know, new gift items. Repeatable Yeah, I was going to ask you about the repeatables. I would I would I you know, I generally get a couple on, you know, on on a lot of those segments. I didn't create that many rep- long repeatable bits. You know, uh like that that I I didn't I wasn't as good at that as as uh people like Merrill Marco or Steve O'Donnell, you know. Steve would bring in the big man, and it's like, "Oh yeah, that's great, you know." Things we we'd easily do a half dozen times. But uh I have some fun memories of of like some one shot wrap around episodes. We did We did Do you Do you remember any of the letter home ones? It would be where the the show would be framed by a member of the staff. We did one with Dave, one with Paul Shaffer, and one with Anton. This rings a bell, but I haven't seen it in a long time.

Going in and out of commercials. Yep. You would you know start the show end the show going in and out of commercials. You know, they just they'd be writing and you'd hear the voice over. And what it was was a gimmick directly inspired by MASH episodes. You know those days that those those would like win the Emmy. Hawkeye Pierce would start the episode writing a letter to his dad. The episode would then go through the past week or whatever and he'd finish the episode or letter and mail it off to his dad. Yeah, yeah. Just that just that. So we would do those and those were fun to do and they went well. And a couple couple of moments I remember They were really One was halfway through the show of Paul Shaffer's. You come back from commercial and he's saying, you know, "So my mom and dad, you know, a funny thing happened during the break. One of the NBC pages, Kimberly, you know, accidentally dropped her pencil.

It wasn't a big deal, but Dave went you know, started screaming at her. He got you know, like a crazy man. You know, and she she went away in tears. And when the cameras went back on, Dave acted as if nothing had happened. And you go back to the show and you know Dave Dave, you know, you know, "Hey, welcome back." You know, and the audience is laughing. You know, good to see, you know, and that played very well. Uh Anton uh Another one Anton did. And um at the end of the episode he goes like, "Then, you know, Dave said goodnight and another show is in the books. It's amazing the way these skilled professionals can time things out, so each show ends precisely, you know, on time. Well, your your loving son, Anton. Puts down the pencil. Couple of seconds pass, and then he slowly looks over and notices the camera's still on. And the audience was in on, you know, the audience laughed. And uh uh I remember I remember hearing Paul Shaffer, you know, you know, laughing along with it.

I don't know. I'm I'm I feel like I'm insulting Paul every time I do it. It's the best I can do. I don't think so. No, I think I think that's how you do Paul right there. Paul Paul Paul uh you know, just another guy with a very uh sharp sense of humor that you wanted, you know, you wanted to make him laugh, you know, like Dave. And anyway, so I'm in and then Anton goes back, you know, you know, like I say, it's amazing the way these skilled professionals can hard cut off. You know, and and uh you know, nice to get a good laugh, nice to end the show with a good laugh. But but also just you know, Anton, a drummer. Yeah. You know, not a not a no claims to being a performer, you know, just had perfect comic timing, you know. Well, a lot of you all a lot of you had that, and it was you used awkwardness. And I mean, I think about awkwardness and how later on, you know, 15, 20 years later awkwardness would be one of the the hallmarks of a successful show, where they would, you know, you know, The Office and things like that, where they would make people feel that way. I think you guys were way ahead of the curve when it came to that as well. By the way, Paul's letter was 5/27/86, Dave's was 3/18/87, and Anton's was 12/15/87.

So, All right, we'll clear that up. Yeah, there you go. So, refillable, You the actor singer, I loved I loved the the actor singer stuff. Now, this is sort of a refillable. It was something that went over, you know, multiple weeks. Anyway, was this something that the other writers wrote for you or did you write this and and and and and get yourself in it? Was it a combination? Like I asked that of I said of Jerry as well. Like Oh, jeez. I I sure hope I'm not taking credit for something I I didn't write. I I think Joe Toplin was the first actor singer. But then I did it a few more times. Yeah, and it where, you know, let's So, I think that was the first time where, you know, the phrase actor singer. And then the second time was the one where I was I was asked to do it. Now, let me ask you There there was an odd There was I think a New York magazine piece on the Letterman just a puff piece on the Letterman writing staff. Yeah.

And they described me in that piece as the ultimate Letterman clone. And I I don't know what they mean by that. We have the same physique. I don't know. you're both good at softball. That's right. I I don't I Well, okay. So, you're Okay. So, there's a couple questions here about the process that that that that I can ask based on this. Um number one is is is the idea of Did you ever write things for other writers? Um you know, sometimes people have pieces that they have in mind. We had Joe Grossman on from Late Show not too long ago. And I mean, he made I forget how many appearances, but like 100 appearances. Um but other writers were having fun poking fun getting him on the show. Were there people on the cast or in the crew that you were like, oh, I want to I want to get you on. I want to write something for you because it's really funny when you're on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just in general, you like getting people on there, you know. I I certain Yeah, I I liked that spirit of the show.

So, um You know, something you could though after a while you sort of think like, "Hey, you know, you this works every time." Right. And I think we on the other hand though, I remember we tried to sort of push Al Frisch on the show, who was a stage hand, who we thought, "Hey, it'll just be like Larry Bud Melman. We'll we'll take a guy who who doesn't seem at all like a celebrity and we'll act like he is a celebrity and it'll it'll work." And and I I I didn't I don't think the audience is ever quite warm to him, you know, you never know. Yeah. I I didn't write that much for Chris Elliott. Boy, I wrote like you know, he sort of had his his little gang and and you know, they they they did great stuff and boy I I wrote something for him once like the incredible shrinking guy, which was an idea I liked where he he you know, he comes out it's his his his, you know, a movie or something like that, you know, he's he's plugging and he he fights a rat, which was Sandy Frank in a rat outfit and they kind of like have a fist fight and the rat has like a giant pencil and or no, Chris tries to hit him with a giant pencil and he takes it and breaks it over his knee.

And then Chris eventually defeats him by hitting him with an ordinary sized uh uh beer bottle, you know. Sure. Like that. And they come out of it and Chris is, you know, accepting the applause and you know, Dave asks him, "Now, shouldn't it have shouldn't it have been a giant beer bottle, too?" You know, Dave picks holes. And and Chris gets upset. "Yeah, you see, now I I thought it would get those kind of laughs, but for for whatever reason it it got milder laughs than that." And you know, and I I you you feel bad. You feel bad to send somebody out uh you know, and and not have them kill. Well, except with that show. Yeah. It's okay. Sometimes you almost want it. Like like that's the you know, Dave's observation. Again, the thing about Johnny, Johnny would be you know, Artie Lange or Johnny would be in the sketch be in the character or whatever. Dave was the commentator on the sketch. Jim when I I thought it was fascinating on Jim Downey's on his appearances on the Letterman channel, he showed two different pieces that just just played the tumbleweeds.

Yeah. Yeah. There was one I There was one I remember watching before I had my time in the show you know, they did something where he and Steve O'Donnell dressed up as pirates. And you remember and the first time they did it it was very funny. And I said bring back the pirates and the second time they did it uh uh you know, I guess they had somebody blindfolded and Downey said and you know, we realized do not have a person a real person blindfolded. It would kill the comedy, you know. Uh and and at any rate, I remember watching it uh just you know, when I'm 22, you know, just uh in the middle of the night and and thinking like, oh boy, well, you know, even even the greats uh you never you know, you never know. Even the greats totally whiffed with one. And I thought it was kind of remarkable that uh Downey is justifiably so uh secure you know, in his comedic judgment that he would trot out uh a sacrificial lamb almost. He He would trot out that and another one he wrote where he and Andy Breckman like they cut to them shaking hands.

And you know, as one more joke, got nothing. And a piece and at this stage of his career I guess he was he was just he was more interested uh in in something that why something failed and you know, why why the thousand thing he'd written had succeeded. So But again, that's part of the DNA of the entire thing. And I I I think I think they go too far uh when they talk about how the show celebrated failure. I don't know that it necessarily goes to that place, but I think that there's like an example right there where people would get that that opinion from. But the I love that I I I again, it's that it's that Gen X apathethic you know, feeling that was also inserted into into your show there.

You bring up something in Um I think that's a I think there might be something here because I mean I think about my stand-up friends and people who they perform and sometimes they're in a mood where they don't want to pop the crowd, but they want to pop the stand-ups at the back of the room and they want to make them laugh. And and and it seems to me like there were times where in the writing staff, you guys would want to break each other up or make Dave laugh, do something for him and it wasn't even necessarily meant for Maybe I'm going a little too far with that, but but was there ever the spirit of we want to make each other laugh, we want to make Dave laugh more so than you know, almost like an inside joke?

Well, it's funny. People have asked that question to me and to Simpsons writers. Yeah. Like were you writing with the with the audience in mind? I'm saying like honestly no. We we we we were very much we were pretty much always writing to make each other laugh and to make you know, people who weren't in the room at that time on the Simpsons like Tom Gammill and Max Pross. You know, things that they would would think were funny. And yeah, it was all like you know, probably the best joke writer I ever worked with was George Meyer. Mhm. And I came after his time on the Simpsons but but uh I was there with him on the Simpsons. Just a guy you'd really want to make laugh. So an episode I wrote uh, in where Homer rides on the blimp in his fantasy of the blimp ride is, uh, you know, this is his fantasy. Yeah. He's the the the, uh, pilot, uh, saying, you know, "See these circular pattern down on those fields?

That's from central pivot irrigation." Homer goes, you know, "Wow." Of course, being something so mundane is his fantasy. Yeah. Well, after I turned in the draft, you know, George poked his head in my office and, uh, and and, uh, just you know, pointed and said, you know, said "Central pivot irrigation." Just nodded in approval and moved on. And, yeah, I, you know, so, uh, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm not near as secure as Jim Downey. I remember and cherish and cling to these moments. And and I'm not about to, uh, suggest anything for the Letterman channel. Trot them out. Yeah, no, let's I'm I'm Yeah, I'm happy to share a few here. I I remember, boy, uh, yeah, I I I wrote two different bits for Marv Albert, both of which kind of fell flat. Uh, Yes. and, uh, uh, you know, it happens. You you know, you try not try not to to just try to get a decent batting average. You know, and you always feel bad about it, but I feel much worse, uh, uh, sending someone else out there. Right.

in flames. And I get I haven't, you know, I I get the idea it's been, you know, about 35 years. I get the idea if I ran into Marv You. I think Marv's average on Letterman is fine. I think, when you look at the at the the the tonnage of good versus the tonnage of, uh, didn't quite work, uh, I think you're I think you know, the former is certainly the heavier. Um okay. So, we're almost at your 2 hours. I want to be very respectful of your time here. Uh this is great. Okay. Well, you know, I have some ideas You edit it down or make it to a do whatever you want. Okay. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate it. Um I do want to by the way in the future, I want to do some mashups. I want to throw some writers in here at the same time with me maybe and have them reminisce and talk about things like that. Clearly, you're a guy who I'm going to put on that list. You these these things are just keep coming back and coming back. Before I move to I want to ask a couple little Conan questions. I want to talk about Ferguson a little bit and I want to finish off by hearing the story both of my of my conciliaries for this episode. Uh both told me to ask you to ask the the story about how you met your wife at the toy fair.

So, I want to finish with that because I think it's really sweet. Um but uh you're a Simpsons writer. Mhm. Conan O'Brien is on staff and finds out he's replacing David Letterman while you're on staff of The Simpsons. Do I have my math right? Oh, uh no. I had just left The Simpsons. You had just left The Simpsons. Okay. But, you had worked with Conan enough Oh, yeah. to see the shows that he would put on, you know, for for the writers to you know, the monorail like the the the beautiful amazing mind of Conan O'Brien that so many people talk about that they get to see in private never mind the public stuff. When you found out he was taking over late night, what was the reaction? I thought, great. Great idea. Yeah. You thought right away. I Oh, look. I saw I met him when I was 20 and he was 18. Yeah. And and oh, I could No, I I to talk about Conan a bit. and I look, I was I was uh on record uh early on.

I I remember telling people, "That's the guy you want your sister to marry." Oh, what a great compliment. Well, well, yeah, but but it's just cuz because he he will absolutely slay you at at uh uh Thanksgiving dinner or whatever. Thanksgiving dinner, and he'll be nice to her. You know. Perfect. So, and And the funny thing, like I say, I was president of Lampoon when he got on, and this isn't This is me uh passing on something that he's insisted upon is is that for that reason, you know, that he looked up to me uh at at that time, you know, just That was Yep. a crucial 2 years older. Yep. And he he's always said uh that, you know, like, "You were like Dean Martin to my Jerry Lewis." And um And he, you know, he's a very different and according I don't think he he appreciates talking to people who he's known all all this time, you know, for for so many years, you know, staying friends with them. But yeah, he he uh Oh, I know, and and uh of course an unknown but not that well-known tale is uh sometime in the mid-80s, we we had an opening on the staff, and I was very much, you know, I was Conan was It was between Conan and another guy, and it was it was, you know, the thought was, "Oh, we got all these Harvard Lampoon guys. Too many Harvard Lampoon guys.

Let's get a a fresh Midwestern whatever. We need a different perspective. No more Harvard Lampoon guys." Which sounds good, except uh the guy in question was Conan. So, don't don't have any absolute rules. That might be the the lesson there, you know. I uh I've heard that story a bunch of times, and and and one of the times was when Dave was on Conan's show, and and and so Dave was his sentiment immediately as soon as uh that story brought out, he said uh is there is it too late for retribution? Is there someone that we can Is there someone we can punish for this injustice? Uh which I loved. Uh yeah, Conan I mean, Conan was my one-two punch for years. I'd watch Letterman then Conan, Letterman then Conan. I loved Conan. Uh much respect to the franchise of late night and where it is now, but I thought uh of all of the people who hosted late night, Conan was the only one to take the spirit of the show late night and continue it on with his own spin. Um Yeah. Uh now late night to me looks like I always thought at the core of his own spin with it I always no noticed was uh you know, Dave would do the found items pieces, supermarket finds or small town news, things that were real.

And he'd show them and and he'd do a joke on them. And of course, Conan very early on would do something that looked like a real ad. And I would I wish I had a an example of one to quote. And you'd zoom in on it. And and suppose you know, in the small print, but one thing that's uh troubling to me here, if you can see written here, and it would just be something very, you know, demented and and hilarious. Yes. And watching early, I I did think like, oh okay, good. This is this is uh you know, he's he's putting his own spin on it. Yeah, very much so. Um and the tone was was was similar but different. If you if there's too many um it's that show uh that you guys built had so much complexity to it. And it wasn't just a one-trick pony. Neither was Late Night with Conan O'Brien. Um and and since then I feel like they've gone uh you know, a lot of the a lot of the shows look the same.

And no offense to anybody who's in late you know, it's it's it's a tremendous uh thing that you're doing putting on a late night show. Uh they all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I just thought that Conan's late night was um was so creative and it just it spoke to me. And so if that was my one-two punch for a long time, and then I had a one-two-three punch for a long time, and that was I adore Craig Ferguson. Um, and the fact that you got to go there. Now, I mean, we're we're we're beyond time where I can get into that. We're wetting the appetite for the next one.

We don't have to get into it that much because I, you know, I got to go there and fail essentially. Is that Is that what it was? Is that Yeah. Yeah, yeah. there for like a hundred episodes. I I got it was a very surprise Well, it was a very surprise call to to to come to come do uh you know, they asked me out of the blue, "Do you want to run the show?" You know, or be be, you know, the head writer sort of. But now, the Was this from Peter Lassally? Yeah, yeah, Peter Lassally. And and I honestly I had mixed feelings about it because the whole time we were I was doing Letterman, I I always thought what did Stevo do? And I always thought like, "Boy, I don't think he I could do his job." Uh, yeah. You know, just just uh Special set of skills. Yes, thinking of stuff, but also being organized and focused enough to look at the big picture, to think of new bits to do, and to to deal with with the host. Yeah.

And all that. And I I I always thought, kind of suspected, "Uh, boy, I don't think I'd be able to do that." And I uh but how many people get the chance to prove it? So, I I went over So, I went to Craig's show and and I I had some things maybe working against me is that I was all of a sudden put in charge of of a bunch of people who'd been there for a couple of years. Yeah. So, I'm coming in like, "Well, okay, I guess I'm the boss now. So, where's where's the sound stage?" What's You know, I I And know the voice of the show, as well as those guys. And and it just it just didn't didn't click and and after a few months Peter Lassally told me, you know, this isn't working. I said not there. Well, and and Peter Lassally yeah, I know, it's fine. And Greg later came on, you know, a couple years after it, came on my wife's show, Hot in Cleveland, and was Jane Leeves' boyfriend in a few episodes. And he was he was very classy about it. So, no hard feelings. That's showbiz.

I'm glad to hear that. I I just I adored that show for the run, which would by the way include the shows that you ran. So, for what it's worth, I loved it. Did you meet Tom Kenny there? Or did you know him before? No, I met I I met him there. And you know, everyone there I was a ship that passed in the night. I got you. I got you. He would have been a segment producer there at the time, I think. Um Ups and downs. I hear you. I But at the end of the day, I just I just love the fact that that there's three of my very favorite uh you know, helmsmen of of broadcasting that I love that you worked for all three. No, Ferguson's great. I would I would I would I would be just off camera thinking, oh boy, this this this guy is so great. Um I wanted him to HIRE ME. BEFORE I I I I let me you know, listen, if I had if I had provided him with tons of of brilliant memorable stuff, it wouldn't have worked out great. I was you know, just just didn't have the the talent stack to to thrive in that job.

the chemistry wasn't quite what it needed to be. Um I love Peter Lassally is on my dream list, Conan's on my dream list. These are people who just I just appreciate so much their contributions to everything. You've gotten a chance to work with so many great great people. Um before course, like, working working with if you get to work with your friends, that's that's like cheating life, right? And we're we're kind of we're kind of circling towards the end there with that idea that you've gotten a chance to do that for a long, long time. A lot of folks can't say that they get to work with their college dorm buddies who they bonded with for decades, and and you've certainly gotten a chance to do that. Before we get you to tell your the story about how you met your wife, can Don pop in? He's got a couple questions for you. I think he's going to ask you about the talking dog and something else. So, Don, if you want to pop in, Unlike some former writers, I do not have a hard out.

Oh. Yeah, Fred. Yeah, you Fred. Uh Rogalski's getting an email after this episode. Don, thank you very much for popping on here. For a while there, when we were doing like we were doing the dancing waters and and the thrill cam and what's Hal wearing and stuff like that, and I was thinking, man, are we are we navel-gazing here, you know, too much, or we just, you know, here, we're doing stuff, and it's hip because we're doing it, you know? Cuz we have And but and trying to blow that stuff up a little a wraparound bit I did that I that I liked thinking back on was in the course of the episode, the dancing waters fell into disrepair. It was like, you know, it's So, we do the dancing waters, and you know, halfway through Paul's going like, "Jay, damn it, it's it's terrible to see that the dancing waters have fallen into disrepair." And you show them we've, you know, they're like rusting out, you know, they look like And then still later in the episode, like, "Oh, this is really terrible. The dancing waters, it's become a hangout for crummy teenagers."

And it's now got like graffiti and trash on it, and Dave Rogalski and one of the one of the young girl interns are just slouched in front of Dave's desk smoking cigarettes sullenly. And then toward the end of the episode, a cute little girl we used to use says, you know, you know, Paul sounding like Jerry Lewis at the end of the telethon, "Dave, I have some you know, wonderful news." And and she she holds up a jar. "Dave, you know, Mr. Letterman, you know, school children from all over the country have sent in their pennies." And Paul goes, "And Dave, they've saved enough to restore the dancing waters." And then you come back, you know, for the final minute of the show, and the water, you know, they're glistening. They're better than new and and and all that. So, it it it would I I uh I I I I would always take pleasure in, you know, if you could do a one-off theme to an episode Yeah. and sustain it all the way through, you know, and and and mine were usually more conceptual than things something like the 360 degree show. Yeah. I think it was Randy Cohen's idea. Yeah.

And on the on on the it's hard to get a perfect. I remember halfway through the episode the notion was Larry Bud Melman dances on the ceiling. Which you get a little, you know, it's like Fred Astaire in Royal Wedding. You get a little room space. You have you stick a chair to the ceiling, you have a chandelier come up from the floor. If you flip the image, pretty good. There it is. Done. Looks like he's dancing on the ceiling. In the rehearsal, it's like, "Hey, that's pretty, you know, hey, that's this is going to be good. That's that's nifty. What a what a what a nifty effect." And only it works if you do it straight up on the hour. And with one with one thing or another, we got to it at about 7:00 after. Just a little off. Talk about view of the city. that that You're not going to get rid of me. You're not going to get rid of me. Everything reminds me of something else. Good. The the Kasparov chess match with Dave. I think it was Adam Resnick's idea. They do a move a day. They talk on the phone. Sounds good. Sounds funny. And and Kasparov played his part of when Dave took his pawn, like the audience cheered. And I remember Kasparov said, "Oh, you're going to pay for You're going to pay for that, my friend." You know.

And and he like a nice bond villain. But I guess it was a transatlantic call. There was like a half-second delay. And oh boy, half a second kills calm, you know. Yeah. You could never get the momentum because there was just that, you know. It's tough. It's tough. You know. It's got a secret sauce to it. Yeah. Don, Don, what did you want to ask Jeff? Sorry, Don. Um Don't be. This is great. I'd rather listen I'd rather listen to you than to me. Um Or me for that matter. I want to ask you about the LA shows. Um and if the staff was taken aback, this is what I felt when I when I watched it, that the staff and Dave were taken aback by the by the audience enthusiasm. And that that that you guys were were working within you were in New York and you're living within your bubble. And here you're in LA and there's this it's the first time that I felt that that you guys were aware that that how how popular the show was and and you were not accustomed to that or used to that or just taken aback by it. Well, again, yeah, just camping out all night.

Yeah. Uh you know, just wow, really? Really? And and uh um the uh I remember people getting to their seat who presumably, you know, had been waiting, you know, oh man, you know, 20 hours and you know, you know, these frat house type guys, you know, getting to their SEATS AND LIKE, "YES!" Like it's a sporting event. And and and I I I'm this it's very flattering, but I really I also I did wince just thinking, "You know, we're just going to do some comedy and bring out a guest and it's all going to be over in an hour." And then it's it's but but yes, pretty pretty pretty wonderful and and again, I I couldn't I was just always astonished that you would bring up these references and there were no blank looks in in the college audience in particular. But but But with but Was that a surprise? I mean, did did you Again, the bubble versus the outside world. And and this is the first time you've experienced or the show has has experienced the outside world.

Right. It it uh Um I think perhaps yeah, perhaps dripping down from Dave. Uh I I think in a way it was it was a bit of a uh an odd shru- you know, it just like I think we all kind of rushed to an attitude of, "What are you doing? It's it's not it's not that. You know, you're treating us like the Beatles and we're we're You know, it it it's a it is a talk show. No, it's a parody of a talk show. It's it's subverting the whole talk show. It's talking to celebrities and doing comedy. It's it's Yeah, I love it, too, but it was always I remember at the Vegas shows somebody asking like Sandy Frank for his autograph from from his appearances on The Fugitive guy. You know, or at the the Chicago Well, it was it was great going to those other cities to see that. To see that first hand. Just just And And in Chicago they had up the, you know, welcome Letterman, uh you know, those banners that they they have in big cities. And again, people people just waiting all day to get in to the old Chicago Theater. Fun memories of that, boy. I remember uh Do you remember the uh the Chris Elliott He did a Legs Diamond thing. Legs Diamond, sure. Yeah, yeah, right. And well, the Peter Allen was on Broadway at the time playing a gangster. So, uh he he he did that uh and he he Steve O'Donnell and I played the chorus boys behind him doing a little dance with machine guns.

And uh makeup put uh uh you know, like gliss, you know, sort of rouge on Just made us up like chorus boys. And backing up a Steve O'Donnell played a cop a lot. I would play a cop, a fireman, and things like that on the show. And I'd put it on and I'd look and I'd go like, "Nah, I look like I'm playing dress-up. I I I somehow I just lack the whatever cops had, the physical confidence to pull this off convincingly." And I would I remember uh preparing to be a chorus boy. I thought, "Well, surely my my uh you know, innate manliness will come through." And I look, "Nah, nah." I I I look exactly like a chorus boy. But But at the very end of that skit, Dave turns to you and says, "You have children." Are you proud of yourself? I did and they I did and they they uh they my wife and nine-month-old daughter joined me. They had also agreed to that trip. And yeah, we The The other thing I want to ask and uh and I might be taking this too far. It was was the was the talking dog incident with the Oh, thank Oh, Oh, wow. And and and if you were aware at the time that Bob and Ray had done a similar bit back in the early '50s that that I think the the early Comedy Central had aired. But I I don't know if you were aware of it at the time.

Oh, I'm not I mean I I I listened to what Bob and Ray I could, but no no that that that that I did not. And that idea wasn't even mine, but somehow it just fell to me to be off camera being the voice of one of a bunch of dogs right in front of Dave's desk and it was like, "Hi Dave. Hi Dave. Hi Dave." and my dog went and sat in the chair. And so He he left and then he then he came and then Dave asked him back and and you're talking as the dog. And what I what I thought was was just uh essential late night was the whole thing was unscripted. Yeah. That was an unscripted That was an unscripted bit that went great. Well, it was you know, I you know, I'm just sort of saying, "I'm going to stay here for a while, Dave. Okay?" He says, "Would you like some water?" And he holds his water and the dog looks in the water glass. You don't know you know, I don't know what he's going to do. So, off camera I said, uh "No."

Well, It got a big laugh. But and Dave and Dave cracked up. That's what I mean. yeah, no Dave was obviously enjoying it. And then the dog yawned, so you know, I Dave, are you tired there? And I go, "Yeah, you know how it is." you know, "So, what letter you up to, Dave?" And he says, "Letter letter number four." Pause pause I go, "All right." But then I I got the sense from Dave that you that you took it a little bit too far when you said, "Oh, that's great and you should give the writers a raise." I did. I know. Well, I I'm roof- I'm a little rueful. It was the bit went well. Yeah, yeah. Another letter and I thought I guess I was feeling my oats and I I said, you know, "Hey, that's pretty funny." I said, "Whoever wrote that deserves a raise." And Dave said, "Yeah, you're pushing your luck." And it's like, "Dog gone." And well, it's like the tiny t-shirt. If only I'd stopped. What are you going to do?

But the thing is you remember exact quotes from three decades ago, four decades, which is kind of ridiculous. Well, it was a it was a special time. So, yeah, no, it's Well, that's listening to these, yeah, I everything triggered something. Steve Young says, you know, "I never actually met Tony Randall." And I'm thinking, "I did." He encouraged me to write for the theater. You know, in the makeup chair. All right. All right, I'm going to do Well, I was only a few years. You got to understand I was only a few years out of I was only 22 when I started. Not that long out of high school. So, speaking of camping out all night, people that were guests on the show like you know, Robert Plant was on. And like when I'm when I'm 17, the guy is like, "Yeah, we're going to New Orleans this weekend. We're going to we're going to camp out all night outside the Superdome to see Zeppelin." You know, that kind of and and to have you know, he walks in the walks into the the makeup room.

Yeah, promoting his band the Honey Drippers it was called. But those are real favorite guests of mine, people like Henry Winkler or the Bee Gees, you know, who who were just really on top when I was in high school. And it's just very surreal that they'd walk in and they say hi and you know, chat with you if you wanted to. And Steve of course was so big when I was in high school and those were the days when he was playing arenas and and I I vibe like everyone. You instantly see, oh, this guy's hilarious and also he's bringing something different to the table.

What what Letterman did for the talk show format, he sort of did to stand up. Just this is a this is a whole Now I don't I don't I hate to I hate getting in, you know, talking about philosophical shifts but you know what I'm talking about. Mhm. Absolutely. There's a I think there's a photo that you shared uh either on Facebook or or uh Twitter. Uh you in the dressing dressing room with with George Brett. Yeah, well, I'm such a big baseball fan. I've got I got pictures. Uh Mickey Mantle, Phil Niekro, Buddy Biancalana. Mhm. Okay. That was a bit we did That was my joke. We did it once. Uh I talk about Elvis has left the building and uh we Pete Rose was counting down to breaking Ty Cobb's record. It was a one-shot joke. Now you can keep track of now with the it was the Buddy Biancalana hit counter. He had like 51 hits, you know. And and uh one-shot joke and I was just saying, okay, who's a light-hitting middle infielder? And at that time the Royal shortstop was Buddy Biancalana.

And then uh talk about luck. The Royals reach the World Series, win the World Series, Biancalana has a good World Series. During it, Bob Costas, who I I'd become friendly with uh from him doing the show and who I'm actually still friendly with, by golly. Uh uh said um uh on the telecast said, "Buddy Biancalana, known not only to Royals fans, fans of Late Night with David Letterman." Buddy Hackett hit countdown. They acted like we only did it once. All right. They acted like it was a bit. But I'm watching it and with with my girlfriend later my wife pointing at the screen sputtering, "That's my joke. They're talking about my Wow. That's great. All right. I'm I'm I'm going to go, Jeff. It's a it's an honor and a pleasure to to finally catch we meet in person someday, Don. Very very much. Me, too. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thanks, Don. Appreciate you, man. Uh I'm really glad that he cuz he he noted the talking dog down here. But I'm really glad he came on so you could get that that entire exchange. I didn't realize how how unscripted that was.

And I mean I guess that's the only way you can do it, right? What's a dog? Yeah, you have to follow the dog. No, no. That was that was unscripted and and even though I pushed it one one joke too far so many things. I totally disagree. I think Well, I did that with Steve Martin. Even today today for today Oh my gosh. I did that with Steve Martin. Let me tell you. Again, he was the comedy king when I was in high school. It was still you know, very much at his peak and and I had an idea for a he was coming on the show and I had an idea what if Steve wants to throw a pencil through the window and make the crash sound that that and um only he keeps missing. That's the idea. Well, we'll get him on the phone. They got him on the phone. He's very nice and you know, and I I explained that idea to him and right away he laughs. He goes, "Oh, I like it." And and so when he came in you know, now I'm not I don't mean to gush like a show business phony, but that's that is the most professional comedy guy you'll ever you know, he comes in very polite but just like totally focused total you know, always came so prepared. Well, and right up to the end of the late show, too. He would weeks in advance be calling in saying, "My appearance is coming up. I'm preparing already for the ideas, things like that." And it seems like he was like that from the very start.

Yeah, he was an all-time great. Well, anytime he did like an award show, he would be ready. He always had a great bit prepared. And he never thought, "I'm so great. All I need to do is just show up." He never fell into that trap, you know, and or or you know, if it's not funny, that'll be great. No, you said earlier, "Failure's part of it." It's part of it. It's it's it's it's it's not a willful part of it. No. Uh it's make the best of it. Anyway, he um couple of things. Uh he did another bit. Uh came up with gambling tricks. And he came in and and uh worked with me and Steve, and we worked out the bit. Uh and it had a great bit in it. Do you remember where he shuffled cards? Sure. Yes. He said, you know, "Watch say shuffle cards." He said, "Did you see it? A trick shuffle?" "No." I said, and then replayed it. And it's this long drawn out where he's writing ace, bending a card, he's taping, you know, "And now I'm flagging the card."

That got a huge laugh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. after that that uh uh didn't uh uh do quite as well. And you know, and after and they come back from commercial and and uh Steve said, "Ah, we should have stopped. We went one too far, didn't we?" Yeah. So, it's that maybe the theme of tonight's show. But you know something, when uh speaking of uh memories triggering things, when when Fred Willard said he'd gotten the uh a birthday message for Dave Yeah. recorded uh by Steve Martin. He didn't say what the message was. It was so funny. It was It was something to the effect of like this very fulsome gracious uh "Dave, it's Steve Martin. I just want to you know, happy birthday. You're you're a a a great guy, a great talent, and I wish you just the happiest birthdays and and many, many more. Then under his breath, "Now I'll have to hold the bastard." You know, like as he's turning it off.

Well, someone said that about Steve I forget who it was talking about Steven and Marty's show and they talk about how there's no sentiment whatsoever in that show. And I think that that's something that you guys did a really good job of, too, is is is Don't get me wrong. I love sentiment and I love the last 6 weeks of the late show, you know, you talked about that. I love that, but to get to that, I think you had to have a whole bunch of time where sentiment was almost mocked a little bit and and uh But like that Yeah, but people like that and like Penn and Teller who performed magic as they as they mocked it just where it fit the show like a glove and and Yeah, Steve Martin in the same way.

Yeah, but just just when, you know, he'd come back after you'd worked with him successfully once before and he comes back and he's like, "Hey, how's it you know, comes over. Good to see you again. Let's get to work." Shake your hand. Times like that you think, "Oh my god, what a what a what a what a bless what a rare privilege it is to do this show." And I'll tell you another one that is in a salute to Kathleen Anchors that I like to remember is I'd written a viewer mail response something like asking Dave about being on a diet or something. And one he goes, "Oh boy, I remember one time." This was I think the idea I just had was he's interviewing Don King and he's so hungry that he's at one point he starts Don King turns into the proverbial giant chicken leg. With Don King hair. Only with Don King hair. Of course. Yeah. you know, and at one point he you know, climbs He can't help it. He climbs on him, you know, and starts eating him.

And uh So, you know, and and you know, just a piece to put together, you know, and uh uh if somehow or other I had had to leave the show before finding out what viewer mail had been accepted and and didn't come in I I I came in late the next day again for a good reason and and I go into the studio and there is a 6-ft tall chicken leg with Don in the guest chair. Thank you, Kathleen. Yeah. Thank you, Kathleen. Thank you, Steve, for pitching it. Thank you, Steve, for agreeing to do it. But what what what it what it gave me in that moment I think was like just that that childlike sense of you think of something when you're a kid, you draw a picture of something, whatever, and you think, "Why doesn't some adult build this for for me?" You know, so so you know, uh wonder wonderful to have things like that happen and boy, if I'm just I'm cramming in all I can here. Oh, this is great. I love it. Remembering great days like uh there's one where uh Dave's saying, "You know, Paul, we're cooped up here. We're in the greatest city in the world. We should get out there and live, you know, we're not living." Okay, let's go. Let's go live and what it was was a a remote of Dave and Paul just having fun in the park. Yeah.

Yep. As music plays, you know, and and and uh he he's going uh uh um You know, they're just throwing a Frisbee and it had a nice spirit to it. At the end of it they like hold up a couple. We we just ad-libbed that. "Hey, can we steal your purse at gunpoint?" This couple and they're like, "Okay." And then they laugh. And then you you cut to something shot in the studio which is Dave and Paul in a hot air balloon. In a hot air balloon and then they're on it, you know, popping champagne and pouring it out and it and the whole piece had a nice spirit to it and some big laughs simply because it was what it was. We had a nice day in the park. Yeah. And I remember Dave asking asking me, "Does this Does this whole thing have a gay subtext?" And I just I felt like it's so much more effective when it's understated. And Oh, totally. You know, that's Well, or you go back to Steve Martin. I don't know if you saw this on Late Show or okay. That was before my time. Yeah, that was before my time. That's a great bit. Yeah, well, after your time for sure, but again, it's in the same spirit. And then they just Okay, well, let's go over with it, right?

was overt. And actually, this This one didn't have a gay subtext. No, no, no, no, no, no. But But that was just That was I'm just giving you a little behind the scenes. Thing we I'm giving you a little behind the scenes thing we laughed about. That's all. Yeah. Oh, and then I appreciate that because again, like I I I think that I think we've witnessed again, there's so much evolution that's there from from from from current times all the way back to there. We saw that evolve from being, you know, okay, that'll be subtext, that'll be funny in the background to when it became, okay, let's just go over with it and both play, you know, at two different time periods. How I loved seeing like that Hal Gurney was was remembered on the show because he was just like it was this great, wonderful soul. I think he I found out later he like his hobby was woodworking. And like, yeah, yeah, that sounds right.

Just Yeah. crafting beautiful things. That seems exactly right. And it just just just had a wonderful sense of of you know, dealing with Dave, when to cut away from something, Yeah. what's funny. And I I Oh, he's a character on the show. Absolutely. And and Oh, totally. And another a viewer mail response I wrote that did went well was the notion of it was that someone had broke a woman had broken up with Dave because he smoked cigars. In the memory of it was Laurie Guthrie, a a a lady on the staff and he they they're like coming home after a date and Dave blows smoke in her face. Like he's like, "Bye, in a week you'll be Mrs. David Letterman. Haha." And she she goes, "Well, good night." And he goes, "All right, you know, oh." Coming in for the kiss and the cigar, which wasn't really lit, goes right INTO HER EYE. AND WE ADDED ON, you know, the sizzling sound of bacon frying. And she just like screams, "Ah!" And he goes, "Oh dear, well, put something on that." And you know, she goes in the house and he's like, "Ah, she's a sweet kid." Tosses his, you know, cigar in the bushes in the house, burns down. THAT WAS THE JOKE.

AND I remember being in the control room and and that got a really it got a big response, Dave putting his cigar in Laurie's eye. And I remember Hal, the the mildest soul imaginable, just saying, "Physical cruelty is always funny." Just shaking his head in in in wonder. So, But thanks for letting me remember all this stuff. Are you kidding me? Thank you for doing this. Were you there for Oh, Don's back. I'm back. Yes. Jump in. I got to add the you're talking about Steve Martin and and the and the pencil throwing and he ends up stabbing Adam Resnick, who has to be carried part of the way on a stretcher. Adam brought through Yes, Adam What part of the gag? We did have a lot of gags in it, but one was Yeah, it's just Steve just couldn't hit that window. And at one point, Adam Resnick is carried through by by on a gurney with pencils.

And and his casualty the uh His his gambling tips when when he goes to he and Dave go to to go to play roulette and and and they're and Tommy Casanova has to replace one of the wheels, but he he inadvertently leaves one of the wheels on the table while Dave and and Steve are procrastinating and they come back and and they they crack up because they realize oh this bit's screwed up now. Yeah, I I think Tommy looked around he was like Yeah, like I say no it it it it it built to a huge satisfying laugh on the marking the cards All right. If only we'd stopped there.

Thank you. Who played the the chicken leg? Do you remember? I believe it was an inert chicken leg. Thank you. Oh okay. All right. It was merely it was a prop. I got you. However, Sandy Frank played the giant rat in the incredible shrinking man, but I played the giant rat when David and Hal were chained to a column. Right. And I was I was wearing a velvet cape and I was strolling around cracking a whip. Was it Spike who saw that and said I need to write for that show? Don. Yes, I I thought that was that was a an odd surreal successful bit that I found out years later Spike Feresten said oh I got to be on this show. All right, I'm out again. Thanks again. Bye Don. Uh you've reminded me of were you part of the of the crew who wrote when Dave stole Hal Gurney's wife? Oh you know Gamble and Kross. Is that Gamble and Kross? Okay. That was genius. That was a genius uh That was great. package absolutely. My favorite my favorite line from that was Dave saying he won the the Dave's date in that was Laurie Guthrie. Same girl I just I guess And would plug her into Absolutely.

Shout out to Lori. Yeah. Those parts. Um But uh Yeah, Dave instantly falls head over heels for Hal Gurney's better half, Lori. And the thing I remember is uh well, you know, him saying, you know, how he want, you know, telling Paul he wants her. And and uh he says uh you know, well, Dave, you gee, Dave, uh he's married to Hal and they seem happy. And Dave goes, well, Hal Gurney doesn't have a monopoly on happiness. I just thought that's the most small-hearted line imaginable. But, you know, Gaml and Paul, they had that great touch with the, you know, those remote pieces like uh you know, they took my show away, which G identified as that opened up the show, you know, no, you know, I think Dave would have said, what, you want me to act? You know, you want to go get an actor if you want someone to act. And it was no, Dave, I think you could be funny doing this stuff, you know. Definitely. That's a great That's a great way of stretching Dave cuz he thought he was in that box. And and just like you, getting him to do something with with musicality around it or whatever, um you know, they're able to to show, no, no, no, these you can be funny when it comes to after-school special type type type things.

You and Paul, did you guys bond because Paul plays by ear? You you have a you play the piano by ear. Did you guys uh ever do anything musically? Any bonding that way? He was always off in 11 somewhere, you know. You know, yeah, um we we got along and let me tell you something, um Paul Paul uh was very appreciative if you gave him something good. Yeah. And if you gave him something a little half-baked, uh you know, he was professional about it but but quite rightly so, you know, when he said like okay, you know, all that but well early on like about about my first week there I went to him and said like, you know, hey, you know, because how about when Dave throws to you at the beginning of the show I got something for you to say. You could say people ask me what David Letterman's like I say as a performer one of a kind as a man one of the kindest. And Paul instantly you know, that's the kind that was in his wheelhouse.

Yeah, yeah. Did you you come up with that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll say that. So so so um yeah and and when when we had something good musically like the anthem it was great to work with and or the time thing yeah, yeah, we we I loved Chris Elliott's delivery in the anthem. He was kind of doing almost the Stevie Wonder Wheel of Fortune thing like the swaying that he did. Um I've gone back and forth with Hal a little bit. I'm again another dream guest. I would really really like to get him on here because of the the history. Um you talk about that. Speaking of history, Don Giller's back. You got it, Don. I'm sorry. No, don't be. This is awesome. I meant I meant to mention this earlier. Um in 2017 I received a certified mail letter from one of those second grade school kids who was in the late night anthem. I mentioned it on the show, yeah. Yeah. And she and she had never seen it. I think she lived in North Carolina. Um Uh What a a lot of people you know, it's a lot of people saw these things again.

There's a good chance to salute you. Oh yeah. That's why I mentioned it. Let me let me thank you let me thank you in person is is cuz uh things well things are remembered. I always I you know, I I did feel in sync with Dave, you know, I I I thought I might, uh, get along with him and I I've always found extremely handsome guys funny. They're just something funny. Well, thank thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, I know, well. I don't know, you you made my compliment for me. And I got to hand it to you. Uh, I I um, uh, uh, there was one guy on the show, he was simply a male model and uh, he was I saw him backstage and I just like, you know, I'll never remember the guy's name, but it was just like, I did think like, all right, there you go. That's the handsomest guy I've ever seen and I thought it was funny and and when the when the guy came out, you know, when he did the second half of the show and and if I if I recall, Dave just kind of started laughing.

You know, as he shook his hand and he sat down and Dave just like, okay, all right. Now, obviously, you're a real good-looking guy, you know, and he just had the same, you know, just had the same reaction I had and somehow that came up in correspondence with Don and, you know, 5 minutes later, you you you you you emailed it to me and another one you did, my god, that um, I played, speaking of Bob Costas, I said, I played in this charity baseball game that Bob Costas had put together and he was scraping the bottom of the barrel for celebrities and got to me and The ringer. Yeah, and uh, Jeff the ringer Martin. And uh, I I I in batting practice, I I actually hit a couple over the fence and uh, uh, a nice and uh, Robert Klein mentioned it on Letterman. Said like, one of your ball, Jeff Martin hit two home runs, you know, and he goes like, yeah, this guy's a ball player. It total waste of America's time.

Yeah. But it goes right in your heart. But but oh oh oh like like it was it was a thousand points straight to my heart and all that. Don found it, sent it. I call my daughters in. Hey, look at this. You know, What do you think you're old man now? shrug and my wife and I actually saw Bob Costas earlier last year. We had lunch with him in New York. Unchanged, you know, classy as ever and Bob says, you know, now I don't know if your husband ever mentioned this to you, but I can still see the parabolas going over the the fence and I assured Bob I I had mentioned it once or twice. The the the truth is it's my way of paying you guys back for all the the the the smiles that you gave me. I mean, I'm I'm watching the show alone and just smiling and saying this is on TV. This is this is such funny surreal, subliminal stuff. Uh and it gives it it always gives me great pleasure decades later to to send this back to you.

And I mean Well, that's so nice and then thank you for letting me do this and I got to say I'm so glad it's it's still a little remembered cuz cuz I'd see Jack Paar's name you know, when I was a kid like in Mad Magazine Digest and Jack Paar would mention Dad would mention Jack Paar and it's like Not only did I not know who he was, there was absolutely no way to even really barely I would have had to go to a good deal of trouble just to see what he looked like, you know, I would have had to go to the library.

Look it up. Look it up on microfilm, you know. So and even you know, Johnny Carson arguably TV's greatest career, you know, if you like. Just best at all comers for 28 years or however long it was. Uh one you know, he went off the air and all of a sudden he was so big that you he's still you know who he was, you know what he did, but it's it's all so diminished. So, uh for the people who are interested, it's wonderful that some of this stuff is still around and and can still be enjoyed and you know. Yeah, I mean that's that's that's the whole point. To preserve this stuff. Well, I I deeply appreciate it and we yeah, if we're going to but I guess we have to finish this somehow. You want to I I accept PayPal, you know. I I owe you. I I owe you Don. I do. No, you don't. You you you feed me and happily happily buy you lunch next time I'm in New York. So Um it's a deal. I I will both be wearing our masks.

Okay. All right, I'm out. Thanks again. Thanks, Don. Send send a rider with your conditions and obviously I I have no choice but to meet them. You're the talent. Um yeah, I I like again, I and I'm a Rogan guy too. So he goes 3 hours all the time with people. My oh man, if if if this is this is the long form is where the beauty is. We talked about this early on uh and I mean I think it's it's safe to say early on in part one. I think it we're going to say that. Uh we talked about this the idea that that that people will have you guys on and it's so much deeper than one or two surfacey questions. We have shown that here. Um you know, and and like like Don said look up you can look up answers to the surface questions. I mean we we we we talked a bit about Yes. you know, about what what the show is all about and it's like well, look, Conan wrote a great piece. Bill Simmons wrote a great piece.

Yeah. You know, go read those, you know, and and all that. So I'm I'm I'm very happy for I'm sure it's clear just for the opportunity to To some of the the more unsung people to to share things that went on behind the cameras and and what it was actually like. Not everyone is interested in this stuff, but to the people who are, it's like being a Beatles fan. No no detail is too small. That's right. That's exactly right. And that's why we're doing the show. My daughter-in-law didn't know who Johnny Carson was. She's 24. Yeah. And and and I was just like, "Oh my gosh, it's going to happen to Dave and company." I'm not going I don't know what it is, Jeff. Like honestly, I've got this thing in me. on my watch, huh? I I Yeah. I I I don't understand why it's there, but it is and and as far as I'm concerned, not on my watch is it. And and and if there's a way that we can continue the legacy. Like I've been saying to I said to Walter Kim the other day, there should be a there should be a reunion show of some sort at Radio City Music Hall or something like that. Like I mean, get everybody back in one room together again. Just like SNL did. Lorne did it for SNL 40 and it was amazing. And and I I would love to see that happen with with with the Letterman and company crew.

having just downplayed theory of comedy, I actually I I do have one about some maybe something that a reason something inspires such fandom is it's like the usual business of show business is okay. Try to find out what people want and give it to them. You know, just say what did they like before? Well, let's package it and give that to them. And every now and then you give people something they didn't know they wanted. Yes. And that was very much you know, that was very much the Beatles. Well, they were great. They were better than everybody before since, but also wait a minute, they're British, they got long hair, they're wearing suits, there's four of them. Yep. They're doing driving rock and roll with these devastating block harmonies. How How are you going to see that coming? And and you can't. And it's just and everybody said okay. if you give them something that what they want that they didn't know they wanted Yeah.

then they'll follow you anywhere. You you've opened up a new world to them. And Letterman we weren't the Beatles, needless to say, but but but still everybody saw this thing that as we talked about, wait a minute, this is a talk this is familiar and you get everything's wrong and the wrongness makes it right. Somehow Dave was is genius was able to synthesize Yeah. these contradictory elements. And and it inspired the same loyalty and I was lucky enough to see it up close twice cuz that was The Simpsons, too. You know. I I just I just made my wife watch The Offer with me cuz I'm a big Godfather guy. Anything I can do to get her interested in The Godfather, I'm going to I'm going to do it. And and the head of the guy who played the head of Paramount back then, Bob Evans, had this there was a a a rivalry with executives. And and the one executive who was vying for his spot was exactly what you're talking about. Let's just give them what they want.

And and and let's and Bob Evans was like, no no no no, let's show them something that they didn't know that they want. And that's what The Godfather represented because it changed everything at the time. Sure, sure. It doesn't always work, but but needless to say It sure worked here. It worked yeah when it when it when it when it works, boy. And you know, I mean that's just one you know, that's exciting thing about show business is you never know. You never know. Um there were you on The Simpsons when they did the Letterman couch gag, the original one? What was I just not what was All it was was just the couch gag at the beginning where they were on the couch and then suddenly it looked over and they were on the couch of the of David Letterman. I think that was in the first few years, but uh It wouldn't have been because I I um when just before we did what that it was the 8th anniversary show right at the Universal Amphitheater.

And and uh We went out and I let's see Kevin Curran had gone out was doing Married with Children and uh I guess Gavin Polone the agent well I guess it was his agent he says who else who else is there at Letterman that I might contact. He mentioned me Kevin and I had written a lot of stuff together and he and uh I want to do a tribute show to Kevin too by the way. That's another one I want to Like Kevin let me here I'll stop. You had said how Kevin Fredette said how Kevin just uh he could just make leaps across time for uh you know with crazy references and he and I in the last couple of seasons on the show of I was at Letterman we wrote quite a bit of stuff together and we worked on some shows you know we did Hardball together for that matter and but uh I had had an idea for uh maybe we'll do like the Late Night Chess Set you know cuz there was a Civil War Chess Set. You know where Abe Lincoln is the king Oh my GOD TAKE MY MONEY I'LL BUY THAT. I would buy that in a second. Well I I wish I'd grabbed it because so I I was sort of thinking like Late Night Chess Set you know with like Dave and Teri Garr and you know and all the people on the show again it was it was navel gazing but it seemed promising you know and uh and who would they oppose and Kevin says you know Hitler's Nazi Germany.

So it was Kevin who would who would come in it's like okay that's it you know so that the piece exists out there somewhere and and it was it was it was it was pretty funny but he would make those links we and it was invaluable for things like top 10 list cuz I remember Yeah. just something like a top 10 list um uh uh top I think it was Harry Hamlin had just been been named People's Sexiest Man Alive top 10 duties of the sexiest man alive. Everything. And it was Kevin's pitches Journey to the Center of the Earth to judge world's sexiest MOLE MAN COMPETITION. YEAH, YOU. HE really he would pitch things where it's just like holy cow, where did that come Where did you come up with that? come up with that. So and yeah, and of course he you know, he and Sandy Frank, a couple of couple of dear friends no longer with us that that uh I'm awfully happy to remember. Let me remember one thing about Sandy. Yeah, before you do that real quick, keep put a pin in that for a second. Uh 90 90 1887, this was the chess set. It was added at the end of the Kasparov compilation. So you can find that on Giller's channel. So there it is. So let's talk about Sandy.

I I I don't know how it holds up but Oh, it was fun to do. They hold up well. Okay, let's go to Sandy. I think Paul Shaffer was now I'm remembering and he says at the start he goes like I'm Paul Shaffer. You know me you know me as a lover of beauty. But I'm also a great judge of beauty. So that's an example of I remember a Paul kind of going like and you were you you come up with that and I go yes I did. And I So I know I'm coming across desperate for approval I'm sure here but oh well. Are you kidding me? No, this is dude. Well, it helps you remember him that's for sure. There there we go. Like that's that's the whole thing. And I mean we're wanting to come up with clips that they can throw out on the official channel anyway. I mean I'm I'm I'm a volun I'm part of the volunteer army of that. So this is this is a phenomenal episode of that for doing that. Sandy Sandy Frank was a lovely guy and just an extremely smart guy. Uh and you know, like gone to Harvard Law School become a lawyer and you know, decided this is no fun, you know. And and um Uh so he he uh Uh joined the show. He wrote a lot of smart stuff and a a fun behind-the-scenes memory I have of him is somebody had gotten on uh gotten into the building, some some some young guy, and plastered our our bathroom up on the 14th floor with his resume.

He just sort of like, "Hey, he really loved to come work for the show." He's It's a some some guy making an honest effort, yeah. You know, they're thinking, "I'll do something wacky, and it's a wacky show, and that'll get me on." Sure. You know, and all that. Okay, no no no problem. You showed initiative. But, and on his resume at the bottom there it says, you know, "Special skills," where it says things like typing, and Sandy had hand-written in among this guy, poor guy's special skills as uh "Badly miscalculating the sensibilities of prospective employers." Yep. And thanks for the chance to remember another very dear, funny, smart guy. Um okay, so so here's my question. Now that you have uh uh now that we've done this for almost 3 hours, um have you uh are you still willing to come on a future show? That's my question. I'd be more than happy to. Yeah. My man, I uh I want to get like I've I've talked about this with a few other writers.

I want to get you two on a couple writers on here at the same time, and I just want to sit back and just let you guys go, and and let exactly what's happened today continually happen. And and there are writers from Late Show who look at you guys as legends. Like, I can't tell you how many people from Dave's later incarnations look at you guys as, you know, the forefathers, and and would love to do that. So so we want to uh as we build this show, we want to build a community where things like that can happen, and who knows, maybe projects and reunions and these kinds of things.

You have certainly certainly made a case for it today, Jeff. I can't thank you enough. I I got to say I I I had hoped it would be like this, cuz once I started doing a deep dive it this weekend, once I listened to them it's just like oh my well, I'm kind of astounded at how many memories there are, and and how clear they are, and and how much I enjoy go back going back over them. I'm sure I'm obviously I do, and thank you for the opportunity, and I wouldn't charge money for it. You know, but but for the people who are interested, I'm I'm happy to do it all day. Well, the people that in my you know, no offense to anybody who has come into the community, that sort of thing. The people who are there's no bigger compliment that I could ever get than than one of you past, present, wherever you are within the Letterman mythos coming back and saying that they have any measure of enjoyment whatsoever, that is my like right there.

It's like oh my gosh, and and it's happened a bunch of times. So, so today to hear you say that it really really delights my heart. Well, I've I've already said it, but when I was listening to like Steve O'Donnell and Jerry Mulligan, I I wanted to you know, reach whisper in your ear, they're loving this. Don't worry. It was it was it was a happy time for us. It's fun to remember. It's flattering people enjoyed it. I appreciate that. and again, I'm I'm just I I there's the big picture stuff, but I I I I'm really so happy to to remember tiny details on camera, or things that were never ever seen. Yeah, and all of that stuff, you know, the the smallest of all the way up to the obvious are things that people have affection for and then if we can provide insights of things that uh people might not have thought of that is a fantastic uh service as far as I'm concerned. Um we're going to finish with a little bit of sentimental because again uh both people by the way shout out to Shecky uh I appreciate you so so so much.

Shecky if the show wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him so so he uh he really helped get the ball rolling. Um he you know, Steve O'Donnell had a couple other neat little suggestions. Here you go. Here's uh Oh, THERE THEY ARE. THE CLOWN AND OH, THAT'S A GREAT PICTURE. some show where Shecky was Elvis. There you go. Hey, would you mind emailing me that? I think we found the thumbnail for this episode or for at least one of our episodes. Um that's awesome. So shout out to Shecky right now. Um but uh both uh both uh Shecky and Steve um This is me and Jerry Mulligan when he was Batman on the show. There's There's another thumbnail right there. quite You can't quite tell. He's giving like the superhero salute but the fun thing about this is I'm I'm I'm looking very excited. He's standing next to Batman. Fans who who know Jerry Mulligan and know Letterman know that that's Jerry Mulligan for sure. Um I can't wait to have him back on. Actually, that's that's a great idea having you two on at the same time.

Jerry's a good guy. No, I I I see Jerry when I'm in New York so Oh, it's that's that's great. Um but anyway, both Steve and Shecky both said, "Hey, you got to get him to tell the story about how he met Suzanne." Oh, that's so nice. Well, the the we were in uh we were going to do a remote at the New York Toy Fair which is right there in next to the Flatiron Building. Just just a building devoted to the commerce of uh children's play things and Randy Cohen and I uh day or two before we were going to actually bring the cameras in went to scout it. You go, you look around, you look for things, you know, that's what you do. You whether Hoover Dam or whatever, Chicago. Uh and Randy Cohen and I uh uh went and um the the at the Coleco exhibit, this is in the days of Cabbage Patch Dolls. Uh we walked in and um uh one of the one of the public relations uh uh women was was standing there and I was like, you know, I said, "Hey, let's ask her to show us around, you know."

and uh we So, we you know, she sort of showed us around and she was just ex- extremely attractive and charming and I've got, you know, we had a Polaroid camera with us just take pictures just to remind, you know, like, "Oh, and here this, this could be a fun place to go. This is the uh different place." And uh so, the the the toy she was pushing was some toy called Sectaurs, which is it's like a puppet. It's like a glove that's a flying Well, I could describe it or uh we we happened to take a picture, if you can see that. Oh my god. So, this is, you know, minutes after uh I met my wife. There's our third thumbnail, by the way. Oh, I'll send I'll send all these to you. I'll send you what I got. Happily happy to do it and um And that's yeah, pretty it's neat to have that. It's so neat to have uh you know, uh that that uh in my possession. And you know, I I got her I got her card. Written on her card, I don't know if I I maybe it is uh Well, I have several jokes.

Of course. Absolutely. I have jokes written on it. I also have written on it next to her name the word cute with an arrow to her name. Yeah, a genuine artifact, boy. And So, she she she never you know, she So, she like called me at the Letterman office like later that after I got back to it said, "Hey, maybe David would be interested in you know, in a pretext. David would be interested in you know, some Calico infant or something." And I said, David, she was born in this. Let's make it happen. No, David wouldn't be interested in that. Let's you and me go out, you know. And you know, never never dated anyone else. And And here, okay, look, if we're if we're going Tell you what, if we're going to go heartwarming, you know, my my We soon after that we we did the week of Letterman shows either in LA I don't know if we were out there for I think we did the week of shows or maybe it was we were out there for the Emmys.

I think it was the week of shows. And so, yes, that's what it would have been because a bumper you've talked about the bumpers that Ed Hall and Mark Carson and Absolutely. you know, would do. And so, she she made the trip with me for part of it. And this looking at the Hollywood Wax Museum. That's my wife and I. You know, they just shot it, you know, while we were shooting those things. And the neat thing is this was my sister had already who who was going to nearby Yale at the time had already met Suzanne. My folks hadn't yet. My sister was watching these shows with my folks back in in Texas. And she said, "That's said, "That's Suzanne." That's her. And and and that So, that was that was my my first my parents first look at my wife. On a bumper at at the Letterman show. That's beautiful. So, you know, yeah, we That's just so unique. That got married a year after that with with many many in attendance and I'll I'll I'll risk one more sentimental story.

Yes, sir. That I do want to tell that a couple of years after that when when my wife got pregnant with our older daughter you know, and just in the office Dave, what? You know, yeah, yeah, you know, I told Dave Suzanne's going to have a baby and Dave Dave said uh uh you know, Dave congratulated me and all and and I I went ahead and said to him well, look, working I'm getting choked up. He said working here, I said, makes it possible to raise a kid decently. So, you should certainly feel like you're a part of this. And he said thank you and that's all he said, okay? And then later later at rehearsal uh he just he privately said to me, I appreciate what you said before. So, there you go. And So, yeah, I mean, he called me into his office to say how did you think that went with the talking dog with the the cello related statuettes? And with with and on my last show I went into his office and about all I could get out was was I owe you a lot.

And And he was he was just very nice and and and very warm, you know, and just said, you know, I think I think I wasn't a a a in his side. Well, that's all that we could hope to be. I think I wasn't I tried to not be a pain, so uh but maybe I've been a thorn in your side long enough. And then okay, one more and just okay, let's break the tension here. When he Not even close, my friend. By the way, the Toy Fair remote aired on March 14th, '84. Do you have a copy of that? No. No, and and my wife never got on camera, so Conan met his wife doing a remote. She was in an ad agency, and that's pretty funny to see cuz there she is in the background smiling. Um John just also gave me this this picture here, so it's my turn to do this now. Uh we got a nice picture of uh some fun people there. Well, when when when when Dave did Norm Macdonald's Yes. Yeah, we didn't even get to Norm. Yeah, that was that was just a few years Yeah, Norm Macdonald has a show. That was just a joy to do because um yeah, look at that. There we are. That was a joy to do Titans of comedy, my friends. Well, I don't know.

It was so fun to Well, because the work it it didn't pay and it and I I kind of thought, is this really going to make much of a dent in the entertainment landscape? I don't know, but I was so happy to do it because I I just all day I sat next to Steve and did a lot of what we're doing here today. A lot of remembering Yeah. stuff, you know, to to maybe a tiresome extent if if you weren't in on the the the bit, but that and Norm on the other side and and uh Yeah, I worked with Norm on on the Norm Macdonald Sports Show and on three things on this pilot that didn't go, Norm Macdonald Trending, and on Norm Macdonald Has Show. And I just I love that guy. He was such a good-hearted guy and such a unique uh uh uh persona. You wrote something funny for him and you realized, okay, that's that's as good as that can be delivered. It's fun. I I would write a rap, you know, intros into bits where for Norm, something like, "You know, one of the reasons I'm so successful is because I'm never satisfied." And it was just very much like, okay, shades shades of Dave. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Who we'd write intros for him like, "You know, we did a bit on the we did a bit on the show recently that got so little negative response, we thought we'd try it again."

And yeah, you just you just you give him something good to broadcast. And you know, he was right in it. And if I can just share a regret, Norm always kept uh his condition private. Yes. It just seemed another of his quirks. That oh, Norm's not feeling so good today. And I thought, all right, I guess maybe he's not taking the best care of himself, but I I I did not know what he was facing. Yeah. And uh um we we have been kicking around the idea of uh doing like an old-fashioned radio show. Very like what I said with Letterman. And this is another not only a great broadcaster, Yeah. and and uh um you know, but also someone with a persona, somebody who who uh uh could you could write a show about how he's got gambling debts. Yeah. And he's trying trying trying to pay it off by doing a remake of one of his movies that flopped. Yeah. And fans of Jack Benny will know he'd done a movie like that called uh The Horn Blows at Midnight. And it was just a running gag for 25 years, you know.

For Jack Benny. of podcast, by the way, that would have played, I think. I think we I I I think we could have made something that a few people would have really enjoyed, that would not have gotten a mass audience, and would not have made any money. So, I I was also telling myself, you know, slow slow down there. Um this is going to be a lot of work for but I I I was most of the way through a whole script where he owes Joe Rogan money. He's terrified Joe's going to beat him up, and he's in a restaurant with in a loveless relationship with his girlfriend Jennifer Tilly, and I just and and well, things that had happened in real life cuz I had mistakenly uh uh thought Joe had thought Norm was in the movie Joe Dirt. No, he was in the movie Dirty Work. Dirty Work, that's right. Yeah, yeah. And I got it wrong, and that was the thing that just just uh delighted Norm no end. That I that I'd worked for him for years and had got the got wrong the name of the the flop movie.

He was in. So, I I would have been very happy to do that. Maybe could have Yeah, so that you know, uh anyway, uh sad these guys are are are no longer with us, but Did you watch Norm's last Netflix special? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And what a beautiful presentation, and then getting uh the five in there afterwards Yeah. uh to talk about it. I thought that was a master stroke. Um and and I just appreciated so much. I appreciate I I I I I I'm sad that it's happened uh posthumously, but but the fact that he's getting so much more regard now, um I I'm very grateful for that. But, those of us who saw that when he was still here, like I watched him He came to my Canadian, right? He he would he would do the the Canadian small town comedy circuit. So, I I saw Norm in our community theater years ago. only everything remind gives me a fun memory department. Yeah. Well, Norm was in the great position of when he died, a comedy legend, you could shove out there um his his uh hilarious 3-minute appearances on Conan. Oh, yeah.

You know, they're about something something could be. And I was it like at one of those real early Emmys um uh the uh they were like saluting Hanna-Barbera, for example. Yeah. And and um but know, and their stuff, we were fond of it, but you know, they're showing Quick Draw McGraw, they're show you know, it's it's aimed at kids. Yep. Yep. It's just not it's not The Simpsons in terms of, you know, animation beloved by adults. Okay. Yes. Here, I'm going to the way we were unkind to Joan Collins, I remember when while I was on the show, Danny Kaye Yeah. And and uh I remember everybody you know, and everybody was going, "Oh, well, he he, you know, he spoke the universal language, the language of what a comic genius, Danny Kaye made people around the world laugh as a UNICEF ambassador, blah blah blah." And I mean, Kevin Kevin Curran's brief uh epitaph for Danny Kaye was, "He was a capering boob."

That you know, that's just that's Kevin. And also, I mean, that that that tickled Letterman no end. Kevin can really He well, he can make everyone gasp with laughter that someone could say something that funny. When When we took the show to Miami, the airplane show, he went I wasn't there, but apparently he went out Dave went out on a chartered boat for a little 3-hour tour. Among the people on the boat was Kevin, and the guide said, like, "Keep your eye out. We we may see some flying fish." And Kevin just instantly said, "How naive do you THINK WE ARE?" AND I HEARD that tickled Dave, and I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm sure it did.

But well, anyway, just finishing yeah, with um with my wife, you know, we got married a couple years after that when got pregnant uh uh older daughter Samantha was born while we were still on the show and uh brought her around like why you seeing her and all that and um she and uh brought her there when she was about 10 months old and getting talky and introduce her to Dave and he's very sweet with little kids, you know, he's very very genuine about that kind of thing and uh he's he's uh and uh I taught her a few tricks like uh uh the one I said what a little Scottish children say and uh she said the hoot mon which is just this very old-fashioned thing Scotsman say hoot mon, you know, supposedly and uh you know Norm would have loved that I think by the way. Yep.

Yep. Oh yeah, no. Then then then you know Norm met met my met my kids and then just and my parents and just very you know they're they're these are very sweet guys and then you're you're you're Yeah, Conan's the one I neither neither is welcome to marry my sister or or uh or even romance HER BUT BUT YEAH, CONAN AND BRIAN'S AT THE TOP OF MY CONAN IF THINGS GO awry with with uh your dear wife Yeah. Yeah, then we're By all means. Um Jeff, I can't thank you enough for this. I I um the one thing I know that I throw out there other than enthusiasm is is authenticity. I just kind of throw my heart out there when it comes to this. The the the the affection I have for all of this is genuine and I I I can't I can't be anything but that. Um you must know how much of a kick I'm I've gotten out of this today. You must know that, right? Like We're You know something uh I I I think I think the jury's come back. We've both enjoyed this.

Good. Um doubt about that. Well, I know I enjoyed it cuz you you just bring such energy and positive enthusiasm to it. I I as soon as I heard uh heard these I thought okay, this this is going to be fun. We're we're going to get in the weeds and Yeah. Um I'm going to ask one last question about Suzanne before we before we finish because okay, you meet her, she's a an executive at a toy company or a you know, um Just working in public relations, yeah. Okay, public relations for a toy company. She then gets into the TV business and has had a really awesome career. Creator of Hot in Cleveland and and these other things as well. Did She won two kind of get into the entertainment business because you guys got married? She I got yes, I I I a show I created Drew Carey's the Drew Carey was on called The Good Life that I show I created after um uh the The Simpsons and I I got uh uh I hired her and it was it was you know, obvious naked nepotism. Sure.

But every you know, uh she she took the ball and and totally ran with it and uh you know, certainly you know, left left me in the dust eventually. I I That's what I said, too. I'm I'm I'm happily more or less retired except you know, uh kept a little I've written like uh four Simpsons episodes in in the last half dozen years. So, I keep my hand in just a little with that. I was keeping it in just a little with the Norm stuff, but I'm I'm you know, happy to like I said, both my daughters are writing for TV. So, uh I'm I'm I'm Um this is amazing. If people want to follow you or find you, do you have a presence on social media? No, no. I I Oh, I guess I'm on Twitter and and Facebook, but I never tweet or face. Okay. Well, um Well, I've enjoyed this. Let me say the the the the best uh best thing I ever heard was when Steve O'Donnell asked if I wanted to come work on Letterman and second best was when you asked me to to do the Letterman podcast. Oh, my man. And third best was when my wife said yes, I will marry you cuz I you know that I I I was pretty sure she was going to say yes.

I had a cool job. So that that that that that that knocks that one down a little, you know. I I can't thank you enough. Like honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for coming on here and I can't wait for the next one, whatever that looks like. And thank you again. I said it off camera, but I'm going to say it on camera here cuz you know we we we you started the sentimental stuff a little bit and so I'm going to continue it. Again, I wouldn't be who I am. My brain was created with these crazy little pathways because of you guys and and I I can't You know, there are a great number of people in my life who appreciate who I am and again that makeup that I have is because of you guys. So many hours spent happily happily watching. Don did a good job talking about that sentiment as well. You know, he wants to to give back and say thank you. That's what this show is. Thank you very very much for your contribution to the hours and hours and hours and hours and days worth of entertainment, most of which was incredibly funny.

Thank you so much, Jeff, for everything that you have done. welcome. Simpsons fans as well, on behalf of the you know Simpsons fans as well, thank you for your contribution there as well. All right. Well, Paul Shaffer would say, you know, I'm not treating like a star. You people, you're the stars. You you're the stars. I'm going to do a real quick outro and then we'll say our goodbye privately if that's okay with you. I I think we'll meet again. I absolutely will. Holy cow. Uh I hate saying what my favorite episodes are. I've been asked that quite a few times, which ones have been my favorite and it's it's not easy to choose that. This one here, our longest episode, which we're going to break up into two or three parts probably, but Jeff Martin, I said it at the beginning in the intro. Here's a guy who vicariously I have a lot of massive massive massive affection for for the projects that he has been a part of. I think that we have certainly proven that point within this episode here. We didn't get to to Rupert, so let's talk about that. There's one sponsor of the Letterman podcast, one sponsor only. It is the Hello Deli.

Nested within the womb of the Ed Sullivan Theater. Hello Deli's been around. Rupert, I think by the time this episode airs Rupert's episode will be out actually. So, but if you like Late Show with David Letterman merchandise, there's only one official place to get it and that's at the Hello Deli. Go to hellodashdeli.com. Rupert packs the orders himself. If you ask him really nicely, he might even add onions to it for you. Your t-shirt, your mug, whatever it is that you're ordering. We're going to end this right now. This has been an incredible experience having Jeff on here. This has been the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisholm. Coincidentally, my name is Mike Chisholm. Thank you and good night. Overcoat and underpants.