Our first mash up episode with Legendary Letterman writers Gerard Mulligan & Jeff Martin

all right y'all thought that I might be fibbing this is proof right now the Letterman podcast we have one sponsor one sponsor only but it is Rupert G in the hello Deli thank you very much for sponsoring our show Rupert it's my honor Mike welcome once again to the Lettermen podcast my name is Mike Chisholm I am excited to be here excited to present these uh Productions that we have that are in awe of the greatest body of broadcasting work in history that of David Letterman and Company and it's really fun watching this world kind of expand and grow uh we've been talking about the idea of getting some of these former staffers together and doing mashup episodes where uh perhaps they and their uh Nostalgia or memories of working together might spark Insight that those of us who really enjoy this world that was created uh can can enjoy can can also take part in uh by being flies on the wall today is the first episode of that now I'm gonna tell you there are moments of this episode that are a little bit chaotic but they are worth it because we have Gerard Mulligan and Jeff Martin on this episode uh of the Letterman podcast I'm so excited about this um it was amazing for for myself and for Dawn Giller by the way who is uh basically in this entire episode um he's all over it to to watch these two uh Titans of writing Titans of Comedy um and and and just uh folks who authored many of the subconscious Pathways that live in my brain today uh we wouldn't know plant boy if it wasn't for these two guys so many things it's a great episode uh but it is a little chaotic like you know there's a bit of a learning curve to having multiple people on on Zumba shout outs to folks who can do this every single week where they have 15 people on and and can make a show out of that uh so it's a little bit chaotic but it is fun like it is it is a fun episode for sure and certainly if this is the first mashup that we do holy smokes are they going to be cool moving forward now um I'm gonna finish the intro here in just a second uh I just want to I think we shouted him out very early in um in the episode and I might have mentioned his name a couple of times we we we talk about cheki a little bit Rick sheckman uh who is I mean if you've listened to I really I don't know if there's an episode that goes by where I don't mention checky at least once uh shecky is in many respects uh the north star of the Letterman podcast this show would not exist if it wasn't for him and many other things but checky yeah gets a gets a a bit of a higher um credit for that uh Rick scheckman is a he's a guy that I have developed a friendship with um for the last few years um you know we talk at least weekly if not more and uh I just appreciate him very very much and he's in the hospital right now so right now um everybody who's listening or watching the Letterman podcast let's just stop for a second we're going to say get well shacky that's what we're gonna do we're all gonna send healing energy towards cheki and love and um really nice intentions towards those who love uh uh Rick sheckman and by the way I wouldn't know Jerry or Jeff if it wasn't for shecky shecky was the one that um provided intro or provided the the contact info for both these guys and and it was his suggestion um you know as as he helped me uh kind of blueprint what this thing is going to look like uh if it wasn't for him talking about these two guys at the near the very beginning um I wouldn't know them and so I'm really really grateful for him and so I'm gonna stop talking now because this is not what you're here for it jumps right into it uh the Letterman podcast is a proud to present brought to you by in fact the hello Deli go to hellodashdaily.com uh I'm thinking about Rupert right now as well let's all uh throw some throw some awesome energy to Rupert as well go to Hello Dash daily.com if you want to order any Late Show with David Letterman merchandise um or Rupert merchandise for that matter or just one heck of a sandwich um sorry for the [ __ ] intro here um yeah without further Ado the Lettermen podcast a proud to present the first mashup episode featuring Gerard Mulligan and Jeff Martin we're talking about Hurley's uh this is the this is the experimental first of hopefully many Letterman podcast mashups where we have uh folks who either work together or maybe didn't work together and uh Jeff Martin Gerard Mulligan here on the Lettermen podcast that's all we're getting for an intro Don giller's here right now we'll see if he pops in and out and uh Gerard was just telling stories about the legendary Hurley's and how Hurley's was built uh the bar sitting right outside 30 Rock forever which is now apparently a bakery it's apparently your bakery Everything Changes earliest hurries did move and I think we might have had my retirement party there I don't remember we had it at some bar I remember and uh it was you know what can I say it was a it was a retirement although I kept I kept forcing my way back onto the show but it was fun because I would just be hearing my uh my Mansion here in New Jersey and they would send a black car to me and they would drive me into Midtown I would do the show I would hang around after rehearsal I would get do the show get free dinner with the writers and the writers crew and come back to New Jersey and not have to worry about writing another top ten item or another monologue joke it was perfect a very different experience than when you and Jeff shared an office together um yeah the ending was very different at the beginning not only that but we also went on a lecture tour a series of lectures at colleges across the country and uh back in 87 I guess 87 or 88 and we didn't realize I guess uh students realized this there's this extortionary thing when you go to college at least in the States called like the Student Activity fund or something like this where a lot big chunk of money comes you have to pay it's part of your tuition I guess and they accumulate this vast amount of wealth and so they pay you know people like us who are more than happy to snatch the money from the students and fly us around we went to play we went to Texas and Pittsburgh and foreign Pennsylvania and Syracuse and Syracuse a lot of garden spots I had my I had my first fajita with you Jeff at in San Marcos Texas I remember remember I think we went to San Marcos yeah my my uh my home state yes that's right yeah they say you never forget you're first um I remember it very well I remember about those uh it was a real look at just how popular the show was because we would get we would get packed uh enthusiastic houses if if they didn't charge money to see us they charged a couple of bucks there'd be a lot of empty seats but they'd already paid and I remember two things about the Syracuse thing that was our very first one the editing looked like it had been done by a blind man in the dark if you recall we put the clips together I'm like on a phone or something just unbelievably raw and uh after the lecture whatever it was a kid came up from the audience said I you were best man at my father's wedding which was true it was a friend of mine from Providence the other thing you and I were in a pizza place afterwards a bunch of students came by and applauded us this this I remember very well it was very nice and a similar story when we were at uh I think Florida State University Florida Florida okay early early on um uh we said I I said it's a joke you know I was talking to Dave yesterday he said if you guys give us a good reception we're going to do an entire week of shows from the Florida University and the thing I was kidding and and the the kids went Bonkers and uh it was sort of uh you know well by the time they realized they they've been had will be a thousand miles away that's right you know uh my son went to grad school in writing at University of Florida and this is tell you how how the situation has changed we were checking in the hotel and I was telling the receptionist you know the last time I was here the big news on campus was Emmett Smith Emma Smith was their Heisman Trophy running back at the University of Florida and I came I told him and she sort of went Emmett Smith Letterman okay yeah sure not a not a boy not a blip but it was true it was just Madness it was just Madness I remember it was like whoa this is fun I'm gonna remember this this for a while sure the um actually when when we had Jeff on uh our show one of the things that that came up was the idea that you guys were really um you had your heads down and you were working so hard on the show and it was uh one of the one of the watermarks was when you went to California and you had people who were waiting outside all night long oh yeah you guys were part of that where you didn't really necessarily know what was happening outside of the walls of the studio or the writer's room and and then suddenly you're seeing when you're on these University tours or you're seeing when you travel out to LA or whatever the actual impact that the show was making on I mean people of all ages but especially the college crowd um that must have been just a surreal feeling yeah it is true it's like really working on the show Merrell said about the morning show writing new material it's like chasing a runaway truck downhill and trying to catch it it's really true it's just like you need what for when they five days a week and that's a lot of material you know and then we went to California and it was lines around the block and Studio City I mean it was television City we went to in uh done the Fairfax and I remember we went to Universal we did it at the universal one anniversary show whatever Universal Amphitheater and uh you know outside of L.A and a bunch of Japanese are Koreans I don't remember came up to me and said oh I see you from television I said really you're watching it turned out they were near army base a U.S army base and the Armed Forces TV was carrying the show One More self-referential Story I took the kids to Disney World I took the kids to Disney World I probably couldn't afford to now whatever and we're walking along there's a garbage can they have movable garbage cans and they had a movable garbage can come up to me he said do I recognize you from the Letterman show uh yeah yeah I guess sure don't don't don't try anything yeah sure anyway well I was lucky I was behind clown makeup that's the time I was on the show so that funky the cloud was still one of my favorite bits of anybody on the show Jeff that that just makes me laugh just just thinking about those spirit I just makes me laugh out loud oh that's not well I'll tell you it's it I should say it's absurd that I'm here again because I was on the show last month Mike asked me to do it I listened to a couple including your episode and I I thought okay you know these These Old Letterman memories as much as I cherish them they're not of general interest but I thought for this host and for this podcast no detail is too small no no story is too obscure so I just I went on for three hours I just thought okay this is a chance to say everything I have to say about about the Letterman show by the third hour I couldn't could barely put a sentence together it was crying at one point like like the last season of the office where they were just like we would attack them I'm sorry I prefer to say I'm I'm like James Brown I'm somebody giving putting it all out there that's right every show leaving leaving it all on the stage and all that and and you know we I did talk for three hours and and at the end okay that's it that was great that's all I have to say I'm done I'm done and and and uh two weeks later Mike called what happened yeah everyone says like hey come back and and uh and do it with Jerry you're you're kidding you're kidding you want me back to meet that that soon so it's it's uh it's Jerry Mulligan in a rung out dish rag today uh I respectful I'm very happy to see you tonight um lots of meat on that bone here's something that Dawn sent me right there I don't know if you guys can see yeah Bad Boys yeah it's plant boy right there yeah um there are so many stories that and again our audience is growing like crazy but the people who are in our audience already are certainly the ones who uh your description is perfect uh Jeff um and I'll just add to that a little bit too like like both of you would have experienced this you know uh Publications or Productions would come to you and ask you about to tell a story or two about being a a writer on Letterman you'd get one little surfacey thing out of the way and they'd be okay well thanks very very much for being here you know and then they shift off where it's like no no no this this crowd uh there's a there's a giant uh group of people who have uh where like you said Jeff no detail is too small we love this stuff the idea that you two shared an office together like right there it's like oh my gosh how did that work like like what was it was there a collaboration was it you two would be on your little Corners writing something and then you'd share with each other how does that work it was originally no collaboration because I mostly did monologue stuff in Jeff did most sketch stuff uh one thing we we both enjoyed was music and we would play music a lot and there was one you want to get really obscure there was one song we used to play like two or three times in a row and it was the BoDeans you know the have you heard of the BoDeans it's a band for the very very big with very few people and there was one of their songs that we played b-o-d-e-a-n-s and uh there's a song There's called uh I can't remember this the last one on their on one of their albums but we used to play it over and over we played the record the Edmund Fitzgerald sometimes too just so that I guess for the narrative I I I I had written a cold opening that involved it that's why we were listening to it is that what it was yeah yeah yeah but but it well just real quickly it was uh there was a guest who kept getting bumped and uh uh there was a cold opening where Dave was talking to Paul and well he assured the guests he wouldn't be bumped this time and then he's chatting with Paul and uh Dave's and The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald comes up and Dave said you know I think I know all the lyrics to that started to buy and the guess look worried you know but no we didn't collaborate much because as Jerry said we'd uh show up and chat a little bit and then uh Jerry would have to write monologue jokes right so he would he would signal that he had to get to work by putting on headphones and uh listening to Counting Crows to the BoDeans or or whatever and and uh that it just always impressed me that Jerry and Larry Jacobson would both churn out a couple of dozens not a long joke every day that uh speaking of guests getting bumped when I briefly I told this the last time that I briefly had to work as a segment producer halftime and writing the monologue the other half and uh the first guest I ever had to bump was Jerry Seinfeld which I mean unimaginable these days I know and he was a little upset obviously and he just said that would never happen this would never happen on cars and he was on Carson the next week guess what happened no he didn't he was fine he went on he was very funny but anyway the only thing yes I was waiting for it you're used to get me okay I mean another and uh anything just just uh in the office between the two of us uh he he would Jerry's phone would ring he'd answer it and he'd say oh hi sweetheart it's Suzanne who's my wife is a piece of trivia that people maybe the Dons might not know Jeff's wife and I have the same home state we were both from the state of Rhode Island small But Mighty the oceans yes when we were both in the course of the show we both uh we both got married we both uh started families yeah I would have to say Jerry I don't think we ever had a crossword uh if uh no we got along really we were very compatible and uh I think the headphones had a lot to do with that just a couple of a couple of you know truth lies in the middle guys ineffectual easily led men yeah you know we had a lot of interest in common in both like baseball very much and uh and music and uh and a little bit of literature I remember I think early on uh yeah I knew the final line of uh Candide and I think I went up in your estimation a little uh yeah yeah very little yeah but that's true yeah and Don just popped on here and usually there's a factoid or Sue when he jumps on obviously can I see everybody at once am I hitting am I not hitting them uh I think if you hit View and you see gallery or something like that you should be able to it should be up here all right oh here we go yeah oh there you go look at the Dons he found something he found something and and the moment has passed so it's kind of important it's all right no please we're talking about stuff that happened 40 years ago Don I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning um Seinfeld uh he was bumped but he did appear the following day on the show so that's an input that's an amplification rather than a correction yeah there you go yeah but I'll note the Rhode Island uh factoid that goes in the blog yeah there you go there's another story by the way these students came out of nowhere but a very funny story you may have heard this already if so just feel free to edit it out there was a tradition on the show when a writer would leave and they were very in the early days they're very loose about this you got a better offer in California people will just come and the tradition was you would go to Dave's secretary Laurie or assistant whatever and make an appointment to talk to Dave after the show and people pretty much knew what that was so at one point Kevin current did this he said I want to talk to I'm going to talk to Dave after the show and I said oh okay and he came in and he said to Dave Dave uh I'm leaving the show and I'm going to uh work on uh what the [ __ ] children did he go to Married with Children after that married with Children yes and Dave said oh I believe the first part anyway hey did you guys uh did you hang out with the pickle they had the pickle around the office so far yeah I don't know I don't I don't know I was probably in our office briefly I don't think it was uh a big part of our Lives frankly I don't think I heard you Mike hang out any memories of the pickle there's a giant pickle yeah I did hear you correctly I don't know what you're talking about I don't remember where it came from probably a promotional thing somebody sent in people would send in strange things thinking oh David we'll have to put this on the air obviously having never seen the show before seriously it's just the ideas were like that's pretty funny Jerry I I want to I watched your uh uh Letterman Channel segment I did one as well and uh I was I was happy to see I was in one of the bits where uh it was Dave just saying you know we're not going to do any stunts even though it sweeps month that's right and then uh I played a young man in the audience saying you know Mr Letterman my wife she's about to have a baby or she's in labor played by a Chris Elliott's wife Paula neder if the baby was played by my son Kevin well yeah I think that's the main reason you selected that or I don't know here's what I don't remember I misremember this I guess Don's will probably correct me Joan Rivers did a walk I remember this right now Joan Rivers did a walk on that show Kevin had not been removed from the audience yet and was crying a lot do you remember this Jeff and Joan Rivers was I remember just oh shut up and I remember this very distinction vaguely honestly I didn't remember the bit at all I did not remember delivering your son uh you know holding up your son on the air and saying we're going to name him Dave and yeah he was not most pleased well first of all he was in a diaper which was a little very similar to it suffered but also the uh it was freezing as everybody always mentions it was freezing in the studio and he was he was a kid he was a baby but now Walter Walter said he could not find the Joan Rivers walking it must have been a different show but I'm no it was maybe not in the list anywhere because it was a walk-on and she was not scheduled it was it was the same show uh um May 13th 86 she had just left the Tonight Show right and was blackballed from this night show and and and yeah she came on in the second segment the first segment was was Dave delivering the baby uh and then and then Joan Rivers came on uh I don't know let's see I'm sorry yeah in the second segment uh audience member is pregnant Dave delivers Kevin and and then Joan came out and she did tell him to shut up you remember that there's part of family law so I can't go back and change your house I'm sorry I have I have a uh a Joan Rivers compilation that starts with that with that segment with her in it really yeah now it's funny Jerry because I I saw I had forgotten that bit but I thought oh this is very much like uh the Family Circus bit that that you did that I wrote maybe I wrote it with you but yeah I think you you probably I wrote very little of that kind of stuff but but it was Letterman's was saying you know you don't have to put on a big fancy show with stunts and all that sort of thing you can keep it small and he brought out Jerry and then the notion was that Jerry's hobby was collecting a family circus cartoons just this very Anodyne single panel cartoon strip that ran forever and it's just Jerry they're they're all very gentle soft laughs it's just Jerry sharing some of his favorites and Dave's saying this is this is all this is all you need you don't need any more than this to entertain folks and then at a certain point uh Dave's assistant Lori diamond in a showgirl outfit runs out and says Mr Letterman that girder looks like it's about to fall what the girder falls on Jerry you know Jerry's heart is stopped and Dave you know come on you know pushes on his heart damn you live live that guy I think I think that's how it went something like that yeah I'm watching it and I just think like boy that's that's uh just remembering it I'm thinking when I played the actor singer a girder hit me on the head Dave fired you in Las Vegas do you remember that bit yeah you do very well we were doing the week of shows more Vegas Dave fired you we had a montage of you going out of the casino hitting a jackpot putting it all on the gun and within a minute you're walking back on stage with a showgirl on each arm smoking a skirt because I remember that minute was and Biff was kind of down Susan Helm was getting into the tuxedo you know and then it was just so crazy 10 seconds five seconds oh so just came out just a little bit a little bit late yeah I remember another bill Keane thing by the way where I brought out a big scrapbook of Bill Keane and I was talking to Dave about it remember this and for some reason yeah and Eskimo stood up in the audience and threw a harpoon through a harpoon at me I held up the book and it it's it saved my life yeah that's right let's thank Bill Keane you know yeah and Bill Keane Bill Keane got in touch with me and it was very awkward tight bro you know uh we were basically saying it's not really that funny but yeah you're mocking but you're not mocking like yeah exactly I mean it was right like everybody grew up watching kids you know it influenced anybody the way Mad Magazine did but it was a family thing everybody started around it and when he sent to me by the way Jared I'd like to say in your original drawing what would you like I didn't remember I didn't know any of the characters on The Strip and I just said geez let me get back to you so I just you know went through went through a book and he said well I don't have that one I said how about this on a page and goes yeah okay I'll send you that so I have everybody have a black and white drawing of uh one of the unnamed kids sliding down a a slide in a playground saying something that's not as funny as it should be well Jerry I was just remembering that stuff to make the point just going through a few pieces in my head of okay we don't need big gimmicks and then we did go for a big gimmick it involved uh uh show girls and getting hit with girder were we constantly thinking of new bits or uh constantly uh dressing up old bits and slightly newer clothing and it was so exactly it was so it was getting what we call refillables was it was like the the the gold under the under the floorboard somewhere and once we got like view a mail it was like this is like Sent From Heaven this is just like they generate these these elaborate setups and we either have a p a comedy piece built on the letter that's how I got fired mostly was off viewing mail letters well we did what I'm embarrassed to use this term what we call snappies which was just just a a joke response to somebody a phrase no no production at all just well that's what I said to your wife something like that and boom was like that that was it and Snappy's we like more produced things that they tend to play better another thing that we we thought would be an interesting thing to try was coal causes remember that we did a few cold causes where like Bill Wonder would be walking the empty Studio or and it turned out nobody watched it turns out everybody in America turns off the show as soon as uh the credits start rolling oh man I I love those like when Dave would go and uh everybody would have like a little uh like a homestead uh patio outside of their office and you know he would go home for the night I love that [ __ ] um Now Jerry on your first uh on your on your first interview with Mike uh uses my boy you said that they used to um do they Dave used to eventually would call for a a an alternate top 10 list sometimes during this yes this was and this was it uh I remember it happening I can visualize very clearly The Writer's room and uh I mean at CBS and we'd be eating around watching the show eating stuff from the you know outside of the restaurant and eating and the phone would ring and not it was almost always ominous it'd be like 10 because he just sometimes he just read the top ten and it didn't play as well as he thought it should well he was looking at over again yeah I don't think so and we need a new topic and this was like at six o'clock for the 5 30 taping well I had a bunch of thoughts hearing when first you said you guys used to get a catered meal every night which is like if you didn't we didn't do that well it said we were ordering from a restaurant I know was it it wasn't a big like a craft service it never occurred to me to say hey Letterman where's my food when I was working on the show we met ourselves a chill went down my spine at the thought of uh doing another top 10 list you know during the show after after the show when I when I left the show you know I I was uh uh uh had all sorts of sad feelings about going but but the my main number one uh thing I felt okay I don't have to do any more top 10 lists I felt the same way I never want to write anything about Britney Spears again as long as I live again not asking for sympathy it's not heavy lifting but my honest my honest uh uh thought that I would console myself with if I was sad about leaving was I don't have to do any more top 10 lists because it just kept coming up every time yeah yeah and David periodic would say okay that's it no more top 10 list and within a couple of weeks he would always go back to them well speaking of the writer's room I thought of something we once and I think this was an NBC we had a visit in the writer's room from a clown do you remember this I can't I think I had the I had the name written down somewhere but in any way he was a clown he had a male stripper once I remember that but but yes this was a clown who was in capturing the friedmans do you remember capturing the Friedman's documentary about the Friedman yes I do yeah one of the sons was a clown fuzzy the clown or fizzy the clown and I guess he he somehow got his way into our the building and tried to pitch himself as a for something like no we're good but he did show up in the writer's room yeah I remember the scene from the movie very clearly but not not yeah he was in our show he was in our show now uh hey Jerry could I could I share uh one one thing on the show that I did write for you that no one will know because Dave didn't didn't want to do it but it was uh back when uh Mike Tyson was the heavyweight champ right magazine article uh following him around and among the things he did during that day was appear on Letterman and in the article it said like as Tyson was leaving to get on the elevator a pretty Letterman staffer slipped him a phone number so you know you're always looking for something to uh write a piece about so I said well maybe Dave tries to get to the bottom of it so he has three staffers on they're all in silhouette so they only see their Silhouettes and it was Lori Diamond Lori Guthrie and and your distinctive silhouette sitting on stools does this ring a bell at all not at all okay okay I never did we never did it right we didn't do it but I remember it uh okay and and uh and Dave would ask questions like how would you describe yourself Lori one normal Lori two happy and then get to you and you'd say pretty how would you describe Mike Tyson boxer fighter you know irresistible love God so you know you get you get the idea yeah you were the three Letterman staffer who slipped him the phone number and uh it was funny in my head but but uh I think I think it's funny Dave had weird objections to stuff you know uh I thought I think I thought maybe he didn't want to put a spotlight on this incident which I bet didn't even happen but uh yeah yeah by the way there was speaking of things that never happened when I retired there was a little item and I think Michael's star whoever was in The Inquirer every item of every factual item of which was wrong my name was Gerald and the finest out of Gerard uh there was something else and the the final thing was as as he left Letterman murdered to him I better not catch you running for Leno every single there may be five factable fact checkable things that were that were wrong just so up to that point I've taken the tabloids this Bible and now when Conan got famous yeah uh like he he told me a couple of weeks in uh there was some gossip item that he had been making out in public you know with some girl I know it's some store and and he just said nope did not know yeah this is amazing and it's not worth suing about obviously and you'd have to prove damages in fact there's no damages in that it's just not true it's just you know it's Fox it's foxy and it's Fox News and whatever I remember the idea that Rupert Murdoch says yeah we told them we knew it was fake but you know we had to satisfy the advertisers so you know whatever whatever we're not we don't call ourselves really a news but we do call I said I was doing this but nobody believes yeah sure Don did you have a question uh I was gonna show this oh I have that wow I have I have that downstairs on my couch that that was the one that Mike held a photo of of Kevin being terrorized yeah yeah I love that one love that one that's Jerry is Batman and uh when he when he appeared as Batman on the show and it's a it's a grainy figure but Jerry is giving the uh modest uh superhero salute like you know sleep well citizens I'm I'm on the job and uh but I I look I look quite like that as the most excited and exciting moment of my life yeah you should as well yeah well it's Batman um okay so Jerry Writing monologue jokes Jeff doing a lot of the uh the production type stuff the the sketches and and things and and that would be thrown into the show viewer mail that kind of a thing um how would it come up to write things for Jerry like like I I asked Joe Grossman this the other day when he was on and you know the idea that a lot of right like Joe would never write himself anything but the idea that other writers thought it was funny to put Joe into these situations and they would love to write for him and have him on there um then you have Chris Elliott of course too who's you know a part of things in driving uh his own bus uh as as well um how would these things come up oh go ahead Jerry was just a a very likable presence on screen on on his um uh on his Letterman Channel segment you did the one where uh you were a segment producer for Levon Helm yeah he got stuck in traffic so Letterman had you on instead and you were just talking about the the very and you you uh it was something that was edited out that I remember very clearly was uh Dave ass so like the band uh what are what are some of their famous songs and you said well one in particular would be uh I guess Up On [ __ ] Creek and there was a smattering of Applause in the audience and you said thank you I remember I remember two things about that my wife to me that was the first time she'd see me on television couldn't have been more nervous it was like me going to my my son's first literally game you know my daughter's recital it's just you can't do anything you just um you know in your service I was I I very I never had very much stage fright the other thing when I came off when I came off stage Jack Rollins was backstage is that that was the best thing we've ever done in the show so far that's what the show is supposed to be about I might as well you know not to brag but I think it was because it was in the spirit of the show that you know it was done very very spontaneously because his manager was there who's Gene Levy's Uncle coincidentally he didn't know where Levon was rebound his story was that his car his truck wouldn't start he was he lived in Woodstock and his truck wouldn't start and it was like was it was his phone bro I just think that was a story I don't know what I don't know what it was but I do remember I had I was asking uh I asked Steve Jordan I guess it was the drummer is it hard to sting and play drums at the same time for some reason that fascinated me that somebody would be able to do that well what what he did what Steve then did was was was saying play drums and sang the weight uh and then into the commercials right into the commercial break the band played the weight that's a great that's okay Paul was so good at that point was so good with playing on music and picking up stuff when I first played Kim Jong-il he played uh Ubi Island I was like do you remember when we had uh uh Mishu he was he was like the world's smallest fan yes I do and going uh from Ringling Brothers and going into commercial Paul and the band played miss you miss you and there was one that I thought it was a joke I thought of and I put it on Twitter as a joke and I I think I did come up with it when Paul simultaneously had the same thing because when Tony Danza was on he played him on with tiny dancer because I written a joke I didn't remember that or maybe subconsciously but I remember writing a joke on Twitter or Facebook about uh I understand Tony dance was very disappointed to find out the name of the song was actually Tiny Dancer but anyway uh yeah well I remember I I won't say who it was for but they would uh play The Rolling Stones uh stupid girl I was going to mention that and I wasn't going to mention the name either but but when Jerry I brought up just that you know seeing you like do that Leon help Helm thing and you know be quick-witted and just appealing on camera and just uh a big lovable guy in the oh shut up Andy Dan Blocker amplification no no Corrections um uh when you acknowledge the crowd and the crowd applauded and Dave cracked up that you were taking credit for the song uh that that maybe the the uh anyway it's in the broadcast it was that wasn't taken out of the broadcast no it was taken out on the Letterman Channel yeah yeah I was waiting for that oh that's too bad one of the funniest things I've ever heard Dave say and this was in a monologue rehearsal or something no it was on the air actually and it was because if you know Dave's persona and he had Matthew Broderick on you remember Matthew broderigan and so he said how you doing my own busy day well you know I came out over the Westfield which I came out of my house every the street was blocked off there were cops they said real seriously what was going down what was going down like he was in a really shitty detective show or something yeah Despicable Me Now first Jerry Jerry I wasn't calling you fat I was calling you big I also was like I also used Dan Blocker as an example all right I've lost about 50 pounds since the show because of the free meals now that I'm not now that I do all the cooking you were big you were big for sure and uh you were a big big big Heart of Gold gentle giant you know that that sort of vibe so I I think it was always let's let's let's well uh Dave Thomas wrote A Memoir of SCTV where he said they all recognized early on with John Candy they all said let's get that big lovable face on the camera as much as possible just plain happy to yeah I think Chris Farley was the same way and you know I just I read his his brother wrote a biography and it's just he was so sad most of the time it just broke my heart to read that yeah he was so maybe he was very athletic he would make that entrance for a huge cartwheel and jump run up the aisle and stuff and just be hysterical everything he did was when he played Andrew Giuliani do you remember that when Rudolph giuliani's son was acting up at the inauguration running around and stuff he played Andrew Giuliani and SNL oh my God that was that was just so funny now well I will say uh just a do you remember Jerry that I used to say you should get into politics does this ring a bell vaguely yeah okay well what the the bit was uh just just because I said you know Jerry has this appealing every man quality people are happy to see him and I started uh and uh Jerry also had a very lovable Irish mother Rita a few times and I I just was saying like Jerry this this will be your gimmick but talking as if it was early 20th century Boston you remember this because I just say Jerry will get you up there in front of the crowd with your mother and uh yeah and you you'll say you're still me best girl Ma does this ring a bell I wrote no I don't remember that why but yeah that I know exactly what you're talking about yeah the South the South Boston Falls and yeah I'd say get up there Jerry and get up there with Rita say you're still my best girl Ma and then she'll say to the crowd uh uh you know if you vote for me boy Jerry uh you'll be making no mistake that kind of I mean yeah Rita was on on parents night and she kissed Howard Cosell so oh that that was an estrangement between us for a while I think she did it on Cameron Dave's office here we go here's the impressiveness of dog dealer right here by the way look at this guy I know like 1986 there it is parents night anyway uh I'll check okay you know Don's I really apprec I know people tell you this last time I really appreciate what you do I remember my for what are the many examples my daughter had a new boyfriend who had never seen her appearance in staff stories in the in the brownie uniform I dm'd you had it up in like literally minutes and it was so appreciated I have no life yeah your daughter was so adorable yes there's a picture of her back in the brownie yeah oh my God and you and the baby we you and you and the brownie uh costume and yeah that was I was fetching in a totally different way you used to put someone in costume uh we would call on you a lot I remember uh there was life-size Hummel figures and it was you and do you remember this and Dave says now who are you and you your line was uh little Hans the goat herd Dave's thinking about oh the guy's in the band and he he pans past thinking about all of them and it's will and Paul and Sid and then it continues with with band members we've never seen and there you were uh uh holding a tuba and it was awesome that guy you know and and again wearing uh Lederhosen so that's right and uh it's five minutes to air we don't have anything I don't know why I used to leave the show sometimes early to make a bus back to Nutley go down 53rd Street race to the Port Authority 8th Avenue one day I was doing that I forgot that David had a camera out of 53rd Street that day because I'm you know going to spray pedestrians or something I don't know whoa hello Gerard I'm a nurse hi Dave I used to race Dave Dorset the cameraman to the Port Authority because he lived in Jersey too and uh we'll get on I went down 8th Avenue one time I don't know if this is going to be a play on uh without the visual they had a drug dealer busted at 8th Avenue and 43rd a block up from the Port Authority the handcuffed behind his back and he hops all around and as I walked by he Mounds to me smokes smokes like well that's brass balls man you gotta hand to that guy uh Jeff your folks were there I'm getting a screen capture for you now oh really okay I know they were there and I know the picture exists and I think uh actually on some recent Facebook posts where Jerry had the picture of himself and his mom uh I think I replied with hey I got one too I think you do that's right that's right hang on at least any minute over to me and I'll show it this is by the way this is exactly what I envisioned um uh with this I don't get me wrong I prepped just in case I knew I wouldn't need to prep because this is just exactly what we were hoping for just loose um this is this is cool please I'm talking to Jared you know absolutely but one of my favorite lines that I still use that David used to say if the show was just a just you know shambolic it was just like your chaos would go you know Paul this rehearsal is going very well I think that sometimes you know the pipes are exploding or something yeah he made an uh politically incorrect comment once like this is like Mexican television okay if we really want to go for granular memories Jerry there's the parents there's the parents right there let's show them oh hey oh okay oh that happened that's nice there's my handsome that's a handsome family there yeah they're still around attaboy Don thank you for that okay let's really go granular let's do it boy oh no well just just uh that I would I would be trying to get you into uh early 20th century machine politics uh I was also do you remember uh Paul penolino who was uh you know directs the uh John Oliver now you direct Sean Oliver he was an associate director on uh Jon Stewart's today's uh The Daily Show Daily Show for for years and years great great guy wonderful guy and uh back in the 80s he was he was like a cute young uh Italian guy he was right of Italian Heritage and uh I and uh I would talk about how I'm going to turn him into a Teen Idol as if it was early 1960s just like all the Paul I'm gonna stick in a tuxedo and uh we'll go over the brill building we'll get a couple of tunes and uh you know he'll be another Frankie Avalon I remember I remember Paul penalino when he first came out as a stage manager he just gotten his his DGA card and I don't know if it was him or somebody else you might have heard the story Mike and I'm sure the dogs knows it we had to bump somebody from 30 something and I'm thinking it was Melanie mayron if somebody shecky corrected me on this I think it's Melanie mayron okay you get that she's gonna be bummed you have a new stage manager not familiar with the lingo on the show and we're running over time she has to be bumped coincidentally Willie Nelson's tour bus was parked on 53rd Street okay so the stage manager here is in his ear from Jerry Fuller control room tell Melanie mayron she's on the bus so the kid you could just you can figure out the rest of it we were in the airlock and we see a befuddled by the mayor I think maybe Paul Petty would have been going I don't know the director just says you're on the bus he takes her out to 53rd Street that puts her on Willie Nelson's tour bus and that's that was the end of it we didn't have a follow-ups because we didn't know it was going to happen well you didn't need a follow-up um no that's true there okay there's something I want to go back to really really quick um I do have a list of questions just in case but but this is something that I I do love because it's a theme that's come up it came up with O'Donnell and I think it came up with both of you as well the thing I loved about the late night audience which did translate over to Late Show audience but it's the late night audience that developed this was the idea that you guys would put on something that could be uh Jerry getting fired is a perfect example of it some of the Patriotic things that uh that would go on is another perfect example of it you'd have this audience that was ready to cat call ready to be cynical ready to be you know um uh distrustworthy of things but then you would also bring it around like if it was Jerry getting fired you know Dave would be going on his tie right and all that and Jerry I mean he would look down and sheepish and all of that and genuine empathy would actually start to come from the joke was there same with the patriotism too it'd be clearly your mocking patriotism but then it would come back around and the Patriotic feelings would be there as well did you understand or did you know that like were you cognizant of it or is it only with reflection that that the layers kind of reveal themselves yeah in the moment you're not doing everything you know by the way that getting fired I replaced an elderly Letterman Channel yeah Henry Paul the oldest actor Paul yeah absolutely right and he sadly he passed away and I just I was standing eagerly in the wings well that was that that something I want to bring up when you're talking about the Levon Helm non-appearance uh I think it was the it was the segment where Dave fires you and and you're found hanging in in the in the uh uh in the hallway you're you're hung and and everyone is kind of shocked and then yeah they were which is kind of shocking actually yeah and then Dave says my kids were disappointed when I walked in the door that night that's not the point really I don't remember I don't remember that being the same show but I do remember we did a whole series of me getting fired one of my favorites was I wound up as uh after we fired me I wound up on a segment of Phil Donahue all right that was the last one about terrible bosses and how they mistreated them their workers or whatever what I want what I what I was thinking of was um when you came back into the studio and everyone said okay it's just an act and and Dave said look he's fine and they say thank you and and you say okay good night everybody and that that cracked Dave up because you were sort of taking charge that's it that's all I got and Mike I just sent you a picture of uh of of uh Jerry with the two with the tuba I think that looks more like a baritone horn but yes there it is right there it is it might be a let me show you something I'll be I'll be right back talking on yourselves this is much more restful than the last time this is what the writers gave me when I retired notice it's me and my way to Jose on a bus on my way on my way to Nutley that would be little Hans the goat herd rather than a little time to go to her that's right because you're not holding a flugelhorn yeah speaking Jerry would you like to create backstories for all these characters you know as a Bible there's a Bible for these things um I remember one time I was I was in Dave's office and he said uh Gerard I don't know if you saw the show last night uh I know during the taping you're probably on the bus to Nutley but uh I used one of your lines from our private conversation I said what are you talking I says well do you remember we were talking about uh Jessica Savage this is a very odd Story by the way I get a phone call in the middle of the night if I go to Loft on on 23rd Street sleeping Loft this is the NBC switchboard Jessica Savage from Mr Gerard Mulligan so okay and so uh Miss Savage why the hell wasn't I on the show tonight what the hell is going on over there uh I was like I thought I'd explained and the talent coordinates explained this show was taped tonight for tomorrow night you'll be on tomorrow night whatever he told me she hung up so I told that I told that story to David I said uh so I said well what kind of how can I have adjusted because said we know Gerard I'm a newswoman but I'm also a woman he said I said I used that same line last night about Barbara Walters I don't remember the context but he used it by Barbara Walters and Jerry you're doing the segment producing you know pre-interviewing the guests that was all very mysterious to me because I I just you know that whole part of the show was you know it was a Chinese wall between the two like at a Target on advertising in a magazine and very little except we will go over there and browse for free books and CDs sometimes occasionally you would I remember you would pre-interview somebody you know and you just start off saying like you know hello sir you know so glad you're you're gonna uh you know be doing the show and and all that and I always thought okay Jerry's like a Charming hostess at a restaurant you know it's good that that's the the the first encounter you have uh with the show but and I'd go off and go write something with Kevin Curran or something you know because uh but there were two kinds of free interviews one was when you found out somebody who'd never done the show before what they wanted to talk about there were some people didn't do that Dave just knew him enough like oh you know grease it or somebody reducing or Altman or whatever yeah yeah almond you talk about whatever he wants money comes out because you know he's money in the background uh the other one was to see if someone was going to be a good guest I know it was very tricky and I I guess I might have told the story before where the producers I think it was Paris Saints said Milford Brimley wants to do the show uh I said okay so we do pre-interview and I said okay did I tell the story before yeah you did anyway keep it going so um I called wolf you're repeating this hotel you know Mr Brimley yes uh Jordan Morgan yes um I was wondering what would you uh what would you like to talk about he goes how the hell do I know you know what you want to talk about next Thursday afternoon at 5 30.

uh uh uh uh no but you know I said oh I'm sorry citizen funny I hung up it turned out he thought he was booked and I was supposed to be calling him to make hotel reservations and flight flight arrangements and stuff so it was a total miscommunication and it was just he never got hooked on the show because then Marty uh say I guess Barry said in the morning so more do you want to pre-introduce you sounds like a jerk I have I have a reference to him uh the last week of late night uh where the show played a tape of uh those are the John and Lisa Liza show uh where with Wilford Brimley singing wow I'm glad we didn't book them out yeah a memorable one of uh trying to find out who will and won't be a good guess do you remember the Purple Lady Jerry yes I do it was it was we used to give this example uh uh when we did the the college lecture tour it was a lady she's the purple lady everything in her life is purple okay so it sounds sounds like a eccentric colorful character and I do remember and she came on you know late segment on the show so uh you know the purp you have is purple wow and her answer was it's my favorite color so all your clothes purple and it was just and it's like uh-oh you realize inside of a minute there's really nothing more to say yeah case closed well done yeah the the purple lady was always uh the the iconic example to me of you never know I find Robert De Niro like that that he's a I remember Jimmy Fallon was billboarding when he first came on the air next week our very first guest Robert De Niro and he's just he's an actor he becomes other people but as himself he's just very monosyllabic and you know his most memorable ad-lib is f Trump right so that's right by the way the one of the worst pictures I ever heard one tell me the talent Department said real seriously uh John Howell from Supertramp wants to do the show I said okay uh well is it interesting or was very interesting I'll give an example he lives in L.A and he rides a bike I said uh we get a sound effect here that's not enough sorry Gary you told that story too uh your first uh appearance podcast he appeared on the show the good news is the details were totally different so that's the thing about memory of course he was he was the first sit and guest on the show on late night John Halliwell he sat here with the band he said it with the band and and did it did his own number and uh and and had one segment talking he did have a segment well at least we've got him in the band that happened a lot of times where somebody would not nothing A good sit down and guess this panel but you'd run him sitting in the band yeah but he was the first and and then uh David Sanborn the year later when Chaka Khan was on and he was backing her up and then he stayed for the rest of the show and that began the Dave Sanborn tradition you know I have a couple of things about that about that fact one I was a segment producer for Chaka Khan when she was doing it we did a 90-minute show on Friday I remember she she did her first number and I was out in the hallway at 6A and I see her getting up and she's leaving the dressing room with a coat on leaving and I said uh uh excuse me uh Excuse Me Miss Khan you know you're doing two numbers tonight right so oh yeah I know I just got to go to my apartment and get my gun if gives me my second outfit I said well you're gonna but I was speechless and she made it she looked on she lived very close and she just went grabbed the thing and came back and she was on the show she only did one song though maybe she got bumped that'd be the irony of irony of irony that was the show was the Chaka Khan Madeleine Khan and and uh and Steve Khan playing in the band yeah Sinatra songwriter yeah yeah Jerry on your first appearance uh you you talked about how exciting it was for you to meet Bob Dylan number one music and I say that to keep you from telling the story again but also thank you you need to think of something else uh I can't uh just well people we're doing such granular details about uh the show but but but that somebody could ask who cares about this tiny stuff but of course if you're obsessively interested in this stuff absolutely no I mean the reason the the Peter Jackson Beatles documentary where you know it's very tone deaf to say what who wants to watch them uh rehearse for six hours I know so you know I watch every minute of it I know yeah well you can't possibly have enough and just thinking about you and Dylan I remember reading uh Walter isaacson's Steve Jobs biography he uh he was an obsessive Dylan fan who listened to Bootleg Dylan concert recordings wow he owned well over a hundred of them and just interesting that such a brilliant wealthy guy how would he choose to spend his his free time there's just something about doing it I mean I uh I mean he's a genius a writer if you're into it if if it hits you and the Beatles always hit me that way and you know baseball hits both of us that way you know yeah I I meant to ask you Jeff did you ever I I sent you those MOG files Beatles MOG files were were you ever able to access them open them up yes thank you very much it's been a good deal of time listening to you know take 22 for no one sorry and so forth yeah I did okay good all right sorry for the tangent that's exactly no no but that's the see I'm the same way just with different bands like I have so many bootleg copies of some of my favorite bands because hearing the variations of the different songs especially some of the bridges if they would do uh you know creative things for each show on tour you know maybe they they would play a different cover or something like that just to mix things up for them is endlessly fascinating I've I've very uh many times made the comparison about Letterman enthusiasts and music enthusiasts and how they're very similar in that regard um we had Jason zinnamon who wrote uh Letterman the last uh giant of late night on last week and we talked about that and and no offense to the other uh you know hosts out there but Letterman fans and fans of your production are a different breed and I think it they attract for whatever reason there's some vibrational frequency that attracts that similar personality the personality that does want to live listen to the different takes of a of a song or or whatnot and and these stories that you're talking about from the show or endlessly fascinating they just they just are you know ladies and gentlemen was it Justin zinnamon was in my house and I had just had my knee replaced and I wasn't moving around much and he came out from Manhattan uh Brooklyn I remember but he he didn't drive so he had to take New Jersey Transit you know figuring out the timetables working your way through Port Authority what gate and all this stuff and how what zone are you going to all that stuff and uh he finally made it and he calls and says I'm outside a gas station it looks like it's maybe route three or something they dropped me off here because I told them I want to go to Nutley so my wife my wife went over and picked him up and brought him house and he was very congenial that's awesome great story I like the idea of cinnamon being stranded at a gas station in New Jersey going after the story that's uh that's that's fun more correspondence sure I want to go back for just just for a second um The Purple Lady uh Gene wrath I put together a a compilation of eccentric civilian guests on the show and and she's one of them there was a nut lady there uh the nut lady was earlier the the museum you know Chris Elliott lives in her house she bought her a house that was the nut Museum I take a chance Connecticut and he goes He Lives what was formerly but not using I take it she's no longer among the living I mean I don't know well you know she was like 90 when she was on the show yeah uh uh Ruth Norman the cosmic Visionary remember I remember her time she was Tom Hughes The Potato Museum they sound like they sound like fake stuff that we would do in a big big production and then there's an old guy named uh Lowell Davis and he kept names he and Dave introduced him to everybody in the studio and at the end he recited all of me he was like in his late 80s uh or the food collector George mastaliard uh uh Isla loacher the turtle lady I remember Kathleen anchors uh the the uh designer on the show uh played uh the she was the caretaker of cranberryville I think what it was was just cylinders of cranberry it was a very cute bit where he uh you know Dave asked Kathleen you know so what is cranberryville and she says well you won't find it on any map you know of course you can picture cattle yes but the the some of the people in cranberryville it was again just cylinders of cranberries but one one was had a little motorcycle next to it and that was Evil Knievel had a little whipped cream white whipped cream on top of it that was Lorne green I'm getting this green catcher hang on yeah okay so that that was that was Kathleen anker's uh version of uh real life eccentrics we'll get back to that and Kathleen and the screen capture in a second but I just want to do a quick shout out because at the end of the day YouTube didn't exist back then there was no internet there was no anything finding these characters uh let's do a shout out real quick to Madeline smithberg right now because we know her and love her and and I mean you talk about somebody who is Hello Madeline over here I follow you on Facebook there we go somebody who actually like had a real Knack and talent for finding some of these just odd odd stories and hobbies and people and all of that Madeleine uh just really really uh key to that we hope to have her on the show here um as well but but yeah I mean at the end of the day the these are the people now who appear on YouTube and and every once in a while they'll go you know viral or whatever but you think about some of these odd characters like remember uh remember the Carson the big famous one was the Carson uh the gal who would come on Carson and she had potato chips that were shaped like other things or people use on Day first and then she appeared on okay was she really I thought I'd see there we go thank you Don I didn't know that she was on Day first yeah they were very you know those I obviously Dave worshiped worshiped Carson and when he wanted to do the uh that Thursday night bit what was it anyway he would do Karnak he would have Paul Paul would do Karnak yep he made a point obviously of calling Johnny and asking and uh yeah that was I had to write stuff I I was one of the people writing stuff for the Carnac jokes too which is a very limited you got a little narrow range here but yeah I see that to me that that stuff there is just I'm endlessly fascinated with that like like I I use this example all the time um the uh Dawn's compilation of talk show hosts that have appeared uh on on Letterman and it's like seven parts and each part is like 90 minutes and and the legacies of these things um you know early on like Jeff when you were there um did the idea of trying to stay away from the stuff that Carson was doing yet every once in a while there would be like sort of a a tribute that kind of a thing like was that ever something that was ever discussed or or did it just kind of unfold and now again we're looking at it the show's had such different sensibilities yeah Dave wasn't about to be aunt blabbie no a bit where Carson would would Don an old lady uh dress and wig so uh I you know uh the only memory that triggers is somebody hit one Halloween had made an ingenious pumpkin where you turn to crank and it made the the pumpkin eyes and mouth go in and out and uh he'd send it in and Dave Dave like hey that's pretty nifty and he actually showed it on the show and the guy had also I think sent it uh live at five or cars it appeared on several shows that night simultaneously that's that's the only along those lines I can remember you know what I remember one of those lines we had I think it was Matt LeBlanc a guest I remember this season the first segment and he had a rush out because he was doing Conan also so he raced over from CBS oh my gosh this is this battle in smithburg no that's Kathleen that's Kathleen is the leading citizen of cranberryville I remembered it right there's Lawrence oh my God and there's Evil Knievel on the right you know she was such a respected Scenic designer hello oh and there's uh there you go marry his daughter the Browns Matthew was pretty thrilled uh I remember I was in the elevator with Kathleen anchors one time and I said you know I was reading in the and she was a Scenic designer I was reading in the times about the the uh An Inspector Calls an old British play it opened on Broadway got really good reviews and they particularly like the uh the the sets and all she says you know I designed that darling in London and she did she just she designed some some big shows in London and she was doing the vibe the film foul mouth Library lady and uh late night televisions go ahead Don I was going to look for uh I have some uncensored uh Kathleen oh really but I can't really it it's not gonna I can't do it here so forget it okay I want to ask the two of you about the 1988 strike and how it may or may not have affected your relationship with Dave or the show when you returned uh to me my my older daughter uh was born during that strike so it it was it was gloriously well timed for me yeah I spent a lot more time with my Elsa we were getting residuals it's not like we were not getting paid we were they were running reruns a lot of the time we were getting residuals from that and I don't I don't think anybody resented it I did I was a member I remember two unions I'm sure Japanese too and that's what you do you know he was with the residual payment would add up to about half your salary yeah half your salary to not work when you have a random baby so we I had this glorious idyllic time we'd sleep when Samantha slept you know and my wife my wife cried when I I went back I know that stuff is just it's just Priceless it really is probably I felt that way when I finally retired I got to or I finally started taking Fridays off I got a new contract they didn't have to win Friday because we taped it the night before I went to my daughter's Halloween parade for the first time and she was like seven years old it was adorable all these kids in costumes walking around the schoolyard it was adorable Jerry on your Letterman Channel thing when the brownie bit when uh Letterman uh asked your daughter uh so does your dad talk about me a lot and she did a made a very funny dubious face you did this was that coached or did she just do that oh she just did that no there was no coaching she's very hard to coach by the way she's a very successful painter these days she's in uh she's done shows and uh and stuff and Wellington New Zealand she had she was recently in a group show very successful and you're talking about art that goes on walls rather than painting the walls she hasn't you know she's not a very successful house painter she's yeah what kind of stuff did she do she did paint she somehow used to paint on her walls when she was a little kid and paint on the she had stuff on the ceiling and she refused to tell us how she got it there but anyway yeah there were no ladders it was a mysterious thing but anyway that's all she wanted to do she went to art school go to rmfa and uh paint that's all she ever wanted to do yeah my daughter's Samantha by the way was also on the show when she was a baby and uh was also upset like like your son freezing freezing well it was it was a bit with Mary Connolly where he was always pregnant yeah that that bit and it looked like oh your baby's finally born no she's still pregnant this is her niece around and got cold and cried oh my God it was Catherine one of her paintings and she was in art school isn't that something great very sweet yeah she's a child and uh and but the the a bit on the show that night was that Jerry Vale was like the greeter in The Green Room and so going into commercial you had Jerry Vale going don't cry sweetheart don't cry just Samantha which was very dear and okay if we're bragging on daughters she's now a uh a big deal uh writer at Nickelodeon There You Go written for I was gonna I was gonna say that both of you have uh daughters who have gotten into the creative space the artistic space uh you know uh Jerry an artist there and and Jeff writer at The Simpsons and other things as well both your daughters have written Simpsons episodes with both my daughters and uh also my my younger daughter Jenna as she's writing for she's on the writing staff of the latest Frasier reboot which is going to be on Paramount plus yeah I got nothing to plug for myself at all the Jerry Vale greeter that was a full week and that was that was shortly after the strike had ended um and and I want to go back to that if I can did did your relationship did the Dynamics change with with between you between the writers and Dave after you all returned because Dave went on and did shows you're saying oh yeah I mean actually I remember Dave asked us to come in and and ex told us I'm going to to do some shows without writers and I just wanted you guys to know and all that and I thought that was decent of them and I didn't object at all to him doing it I I objected to the the uh the residual checks uh drying up but uh I didn't blame you once you've learned back on that's right there yeah the money started running out after that so yeah so I also think he wanted to keep the the brand going so to speak because the morning show or maybe it was uh early days of late night we had a three-week block off in the summer you know and they would never do that again just because it was raining it really suffered the writings really suffered because it was pretty early into the run so to get three weeks worth of result of you know reruns not a big bank to draw from so there's a lot of stuff that's been on like a month before and stuff like that and also people just got tired they just want to see Dave do you want to see Dave whining about the Connecticut state troopers on the Merritt Parkway and stuff you know they really they love that kind of they really do love that stuff they really do but especially these kind of it's kind of opaque about it you know you say like I just thought as a shout out to the Connecticut State Police keep it up boys you're doing a great job keeping the keeping the Mayor Parkway safe thank you sir that kind of stuff I think that there's a reset that happens um I can I can certainly speak to it for uh the last writer's strike where everybody grew beards and all of that stuff um you know I I think about Conan and how his show changed considerably during that strike where he would go out there and literally the time Killers you know and again that's a that's a shout out to uh you know Hal Gurney's uh of course before that but or Hal gertner um you know flipping a coin around and seeing how how long the coin would spin for and things like that the way that they would kill time I think it would take the host and give them sort of a reset when that would happen um you guys have been involved I guess you know writers forever how many strikes did you guys go through in your 10 years of at your respective shows I went I went through 1980 I remember 1980 our show was about to be the morning show was about to be canceled it was the writers go strike and I was picketing I was assigned outside the uh well it's Trump Tower now but it used to be the headquarters of some big Studio I can't remember which one it was and I remember I was walking with uh the two the co-writers of Superman that had just debuted that day or the week before or whatever it was a smash it was a huge hit and I was on a failing so the three of us were like 1930s radicals here we go bring down the man bring down the man meanwhile they're just counting that money the money is just falling from the ceiling I Scrooge McDuck that is floating around in it anyway I was counting on my unemployment checks which came out of our employment check for like six months you know I uh don my initial answer was no it didn't change uh uh our relationship with Dave I wonder if you know Dave while we were there was pushing more and more toward real stuff less inclined to to do you know sketches and conceits in in theme shows and uh probably that was just his disposition but I wonder if if doing those shows was uh naked if you will yeah patience that Movement we used to have a lot of theme night we had a Harman Killebrew night if you remember that's because put his jersey up in the Raptors and stuff like the first film festival that's why they gave him the full show oh I'm pretty sure I'm pretty certain I told yeah he was going to be in the first film festival and he got bumped so we did a whole Broom nine yeah and and use the uh the film that I think Kevin Kern and Fred Graver shot out in Payette Idaho but I I got to I got to go sit in the booth uh for a Yankees Twins game with Herman with him afterwards the the nicest man imaginable yeah I think he's one of those guys he played in a small Market a team if he played in New York or L.A he would have been a hustle work and he just was I mean Baseball fans know how great he was but he was not a house he wasn't you know Derek Jeter or Aaron judge no I I told uh I told uh during my epic three-hour uh first two-part uh appearance on this podcast last month I I told this story Jerry but do you remember on the Harmon Killebrew night uh uh Dave did uh this is your life kind of thing with Harmon where he said now Harmon do you recognize this voice and it was Liberace backstage you know the year you won the most valuable player I opened a residency Casino you know and just do you know who that is Carmen I have no idea and Liberace came out and then and it was Harmon Killebrew Liberace and Dave and the nice thing was it worked because they were just both nice gentlemen you know yeah absolutely that's absolutely people without attitude are always easier to deal with and more like the audience relates to them much more yeah Madonna who came out gave Dave a pair of her panties smoked a big cigar made a lot of double entenders about it you know no come on Madonna come on we don't need you I know she's familiar with his protection because I saw her on the Grammys and she was totally unrecognizable yeah she has taken an interesting turn of late there's no question about it this is sad I mean you know she's she just shouldn't whatever Jeff I'm I'm looking for the uh I'm looking for your daughter in the uh uh uh that would be fun but yeah uh what's his face I can't think of uh Jerry Vale the Jerry Vale is greeter and and I haven't found it yet he was on for the full week but so far I'm striking out uh uh at least within the one segment that he did after the opening what was Mary Connolly the pregnant lady was she Connie Connie plesco Connie plesco wow all right if there's a Connie plesco segment uh oh okay the week that uh that that's that's that's where Samantha appeared but yeah your daughter's into painting Jerry Samantha's a comedy writer and songwriter but not the Jerry Vale reader thing but it was Connie plesko and Jerry Vale on the same dude yeah Connie plesko was on while Jerry Vale was uh the greeter in The Green Room gotcha who writes the name Connie plesko like how does that where do the names come up with for for character names like that like I know that Steve O'Donnell that's O'Donnell yes that's Connie Pasco yeah okay here we go all right um we're in the ballpark okay like the names you would come up with for the different characters who would come out on stage like is it just it's an onomatopoeia thing like okay yeah this just has a nice little ring to it or like are they all inside jokes how to name something they can't be too silly you know they can't be marvelous nerd Buster or something you know just you don't want really silly they should be a little bit I remember one example Larry Larry Davis Larry Jacobson and I were in the audience we were a couple apparently I don't remember the details at all but we were trying to come up with a name for my partner and so-and-so and David just said Louis if for some reason I don't know time to explain Lewis just was just the perfect name there couldn't be silly yeah you know it just had it being Lewis oh okay and you know it's not Lou it's Lewis and whatever I would usually just name check friends or relatives just you know yeah there were a few there are a few of those yeah yeah lots of little shout outs and inside jokes that kind of a thing a few of those a few of those but again sometimes you're so wrapped up in it and you just you know just a gonna get this out oh deadline deadline deadline there are deadlines all the time yeah and that's not everything is carefully thought through that's that's for sure there's some yeah sometimes I know sometimes but wait a minute how are we gonna and also the thing I I was a came from literary back I was a teacher of English and I wrote short stories and poems and stuff and you just realize that you can't just write something it has to be producible you know and right either that or it's going to be it's going to take millions of dollars to actually fly a helicopter over the audience or something you know there are safety concerns a picture of baby Samantha here there you go that's Connie Connie uh Baby Bro she's freezing she's probably freezing she had more clothes on than Kevin when uh yes absolutely absolutely that's the door knowing Kevin anything for his craft that's right that's right he's in Chicago now writing uh writing on his novel you got his MFA in writing he's just not successful with the first one working on a second one publishing small magazines there's not a lot of money in small magazines that I found out early on so it's very hard to get in literary literary thing published and successful you know very very few so I was working as a man he's managing a coffee shop in Chicago now where he followed his girlfriend who's an artist that uh teaching at uh the Art Institute of the Chicago Museum of Art but anyway that's where we are and Don has another oh okay wow there's me and Oprah together we're an item very briefly very briefly as you well no it was Mad Magazine Mad Max is that artist Angelo Torres I think so well I think it is yeah pretty good the amazing thing is how many people read Mad Magazine religiously you can't when it came out every month I remember buying it and the newsstand I mean I'm taking the bus back from high school to home I remember one very distinctly for some reason where this kid is on the back the back of the magazine was a fake ad for CR cross toothpaste and said look man no cavities and the kid just had like all these missing teeth for some reason that really that really stuck with me I was like 12 years old but anyway Matt magazine that and uh well just for people our age I think that that was just such a signifier of you can be silly when you're an adult yeah absolutely absolutely and then then at CBS we were across we were across Broadway from the office this is a Mad magazine for a while then we could just sometimes they put up a couple of things indicating they'd watch the show uh the night before I don't remember what they were exactly I've got a couple of friends who are DC former DC artists who worked at that building and and whatnot and and of course shecky uh I've I've made him tell me so many stories because I mean he he goes deep into the comic book stuff and and he made good friends with some of the people across the street um and it's funny you talking about Mad Magazine and adults acting silly that's exactly so again me as your younger audience watching what you guys did it was exactly that the permission for adults to be silly I remember being like nine or ten years old uh there was a there was a certain segment that I remember watching at a friend's sleepover where stacks of dishes like China wear were stacked up throughout uh the stage and someone gave Dave a remote control car and it was just chaos as the remote control car would go and break the the all the the the fine bone china as it was built or something like that it would break all these dishes and as a kid seeing that um that's exactly it now you talk about Mad Magazine um in the Jeff I think this is probably after your time at The Simpsons um but it was around season 10 where the Simpsons went to New York and and Bart went and saw the header Mad magazines like Mad Magazine and this what happened in that is exactly how I used to imagine your offices being like Bart went up the elevator the elevator door opens and it's just for a second and there's chaos happening like just chaos happening and Alfred E Newman pokes his head out or whatever and then it closes and that's that's basically it that is how I used to imagine your offices I used to imagine it like that like they're just being chaos there as a fan uh growing up and and more like that than most I'd say simply because most most of the writers anyway were in our 20s yeah well not all no no jiren Jerry was Jerry was older Jerry was around 40.

though I will say occasionally a magazine I remember would do a piece on the Lettermen Riders and they always would say like you know Jerry Mulligan's older but you know the effervescent Mulligan is clearly in his prime and things like that watch out that's how Don Lemon got in trouble so be careful effervescent shout out to shout out for the three dollar Harvard word there um I uh that's actually a question that I do have for you guys um favorite vocabulary are there are there words that you have that are go-to words where they're just um you know turns a phrase or or things that that you still kind of go back to and they're very much you know Letterman words oh I I don't know if this is a letterman thing I don't have any words on the show like that there's a phrase that I always find entertaining when I come across it and it's some will say uh so Madonna has just bought a twin pair of leopards in her she's in you know as one does and I just think the phrase as one does in that sort of context it's just hysterical you know or so-and-so is having an extra leg put on be on the middle of her back as one does I love that too that's another one oh Jerry would just say things like you know I Letterman liked phrases like scuff resistant you know that's me here's all right Jerry Henry the eighth playing tennis is that right you know what that is this is on one of the gems of 30 Rock that very few people know about there's this beautiful garden up on the uh 12th floor and I had a window I could almost crawl out into it you're right across from St Patrick's Cathedral I know 30 Rock did the show did a a wedding up there but it's grass it's just beautiful it's just I've never seen a feature anywhere or maybe even books about Rockefeller Center but it's not a big it's not a tourist attraction because it's not to the tourists it's the West Wing it's just the NBC they they shot a a party there on the series uncoupled that my wife Suzanne is going to be right is that right yeah the second season yeah it looked beautiful and just to finish uh you know my daughter Jenna Jerry she's uh she's on the big staff of the latest Frasier reboot right it's going to be on Paramount plus so that's right they're they're all uh they're all keeping busy on writing staffs and Chris Harris has done that busy doing podcasts about uh shows from the previous Century yeah yeah who else might you say Chris Harris is on there as well oh is he really yeah right it's on the uh the Fraser writing staff I'll ask my daughter about him all right he's gonna he's gonna come on our show but he wanted to wait until um that block because they're working I think they're probably at the tail end of it now on that on that side of things but they're they're they're busting it on that show last I talked to him and and yeah who's coming back is everybody uh John Maloney died right I know that I I don't think anyone's coming back I think is that right totally like Frazier's son you know he moves back to Boston and it's uh uh I think he's uh getting to know his son okay fair enough Kelsey Grammer money in the bank yeah they liked it twice and they'll love it three times three times as much all right I was just going through cheers uh actually you know what they like and give it to him good and hard yeah that that the Elizabethan costume was part of travel brochures uh from April 93.

so it was like why was it well the travel is going to come to see you they say yeah we didn't really tease out all the implications of all everything all that thought out yeah we never did that I'm not sure the word was ever said on the show it's a challenge for the folks listening at home what what Don means by that or what awesome Dave did a couple of bits in the in that garden and uh I think Spike Ferris and did uh show Dave how he could he could uh do a fish I ran into Spike fearston we get our hair cut at the same place uh like five days ago oh that's all I'm kidding you can see isn't that something yeah yeah yeah I'm only a nodding acquaintance he was after my time but we we know each other and uh he was uh what are you doing he's making a movie with Jerry's Seinfeld yeah Spike loves the cars he's doing a lot of stuff he has a show about cars I know yep his brother is the Wally is a main character card guy an SNL yeah you know you see him and you see him all the time going about burning back and forth before this setups and stuff spike is definitely a guy we want to get on the show um and this actually leads to um two perspectives here because we've got Jerry who was there like all the way back to you know writing monologue jokes for for for Dave on Carson all the way to you know for for the end at the end of the day obviously things changed at the end but you were there you saw all these runs um and then you know Jason does a good job talking about this in in his book but the phases of late night you know the early phase and then and then uh you know with the original writers and then when when when Downey Downey took over and then after he left and then the influx happens uh stays that same for a while and then there's another turnover Jerry you saw the turnovers Jeff you were part of the of the turnover uh of probably the second or third um iteration of of of that staff I'm really curious about the points of view of both of you guys because Jerry you were there the whole time and there weren't a lot of war horses who were there the whole time um and then you know Jeff moving on with with others to The Simpsons and things like that Jerry was that ever something that uh that ever tempted you uh to to make these moves that some of these other continues were making I had a couple of offers to go to California one for some very successful show news radio and the other one I wanted to grab a show that didn't happen because Paul Sims I knew from the show yeah and he promised that I would be out of the parking lot at the studio at 5 P.M every day which was very appealing to me but you know my family was here and I was I was set up the other one was for a show well it never happened somebody somebody who was a writer on our show was a head writer for a while uh went to a senior citizens home in Florida and for real and lived there for like a couple of months and wrote a book about it you know what I'm talking about Jeff Rodney Rodney Rodney but anyway he was trying to sell a pilot to NBC and then my age got the same agent he called me and said Rodney wants you to work on this pilot uh whenever I said I'm not going to California so anyway that's what I was tempted I lived in L.A for like I lived in a life I lived in San Francisco for seven years which I liked I couldn't even afford to live there now and I lived in La for like three years and uh I think San Francisco better but I'm in these how many scores this is the bit as it aired a medieval tennis world that makes sense yeah yeah now it makes sense what do you have to do you have this framed no nothing iPad I just took a oh sure from the iPad yeah the the uh the stat the fees I was in it was really remarkably consistent considering I was there for sick more than six years yeah you know I just you could call it the Steve O'Donnell time yeah but but when when all those guys left for the new show it was basically uh you know the staff stayed there was a little turnover but it was really awfully consistent for the whole six years I was there things like the band was pretty steady yeah oh and David really realized I relied on that for his go-to stuff Doug Paul talking back and forth with Paul and he loves music and he loves to play the drums I never mention the David rehearsal would play the drums insanely a lot almost every every time they went to rehearsal money went to rehearsal didn't always go to rehearsal you know he would watch it on the feed in his office and uh anybody mentioned the time in NBC where uh David will throw a baseball around he had gloves around he would throw a baseball back and forth chatting whatever and he Bill Wendell was up there I don't know if Phil Wendell threw the ball or he threw the ball to Bill Wendell and went right through the window smashed the glass and out onto uh Sixth Avenue from the 14th floor it was like okay okay let's hope nobody and nobody did they fixed it like Mr Letterman needs a new window I feel like Dave talked about that one day and he talked here and then he said well he sent an intern down to see if anybody was nobody was thank God uh let's see Jeff no oh okay okay that was my I think I'm out of course I thought that last month but no you have the tidbits anything else we can clear or any of these Mysteries of the show that I might be I just well it's very good to see you Jerry let me see it's great to see you anything else it was a joy to share an office with you all those years ago I loved it man the last time I saw Jeff was right before right before covered you were in the city and we went to The Tick Tock Diner in Clifton New Jersey who has a big neon sign with this phrase eat heavy yeah whenever they would come and shoot stuff in the area but they did not all the crew and all would get to get their food from The Tick Tock but that was the last time I said yeah and uh you know he's he's at 3 000 miles away I think about him constantly I want to before all right before we got to close it up here like the idea of getting um you know you guys together to talk about this stuff I cannot tell you I know it may not to you seem endlessly fascinating it is endlessly fascinating I love this stuff even hearing your reporters going back and forth in the little tennis match here that's uh of of memories you know taking advantage of Zoom I hope one day that we can figure something out where we can get a bunch of you together on panel for the long form stuff I know Conan and his former uh staffers are doing that a lot these days there's a lot of very cool um venues to do that I would love to get us all into one uh Place live together to do this kind of a thing but thank you so so much for giving of your time and and of your memory banks foreign this stuff is all very interesting these memories are all very dear to me I just uh you know I I would never charge money for to uh tell people about them or assume yeah by the election tour you know if it was free it would be overflowing it if we had to charge the expectation level is infinitely higher and I I thrive on low expectations yeah me too it's it's how we've gotten to where we are right now um but at the end of the day no I I those lecture tours this is that's one of the reasons why I thought of YouTube like there's a few people that I wanted to pair up the lecture tour and sharing the office was one of the reasons why I thought um and again that that that juxtaposition of the guy who was there for you know six years versus you know decades that kind of thing I just I just really really wanted to get you two together I thank you so much is there anything else that we want to talk about before we wrap this one up I don't know I just I appreciate all the work you're doing once again Don's keep up the good work yeah I think I'm not done calling on you for correct and feel free to correct anything I say in on Twitter or Facebook or anything else I know you I know you will I I've said this too many times it's a kick to to quote know you guys yeah I mean I I was in my 30s when late night was on and just watching you folks and now here I am like talking with you guys is is uh uh I'm gonna come across as a fan so I'm not going to do that we're funny it's a really big honor for you Don I appreciate that anyways I guess that wraps it I think um thank you please give my best to your wife would you oh sure you should you do to the my Ocean State uh friend uh Suzanne okay Samantha and Jenna anybody else you think I would say that though I don't care thank you appreciate you both very much talk to you soon okay one goes I gotta go leave you can do it you can do it try to leave they won't let me there we go well there we go that was a bit of a cluster it was great a great cluster you're still taping yeah yeah I was gonna do the outro with you but oh god there he goes just like that um I really really appreciated uh the time not just the time of of uh Jeff and Jerry I appreciate their time very very much in sharing some of these uh moments with us but of course of dawn as well and and the episode uh of course changes course in a good way with Dawn here because he can he has access so quickly to these screen captures and things that that that bring these memories uh that was our maiden voyage of doing a mashup episode everybody thank you so much for taking time to uh to listen or watch whatever it is uh another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisholm coincidentally I am Mike just oh wait no wait hold on hello Deli we have one sponsor at the Letterman podcast and one sponsor only that is Rupert G and the hello Deli go to hello deli.com uh to shop for Late Show with uh David Letterman merchandise also hello Deli merchandise we're talking about a couple of different new shirts that uh might be coming out Rupert shirts and and things and um maybe you know for this last little stretch of however long the deli is going to be open for maybe we can have some new Dave shirts uh beforehand as well so we're talking about some of these things in the background but uh go to hello jelly.com and shop for Late Show with David Letterman merchandise um or Rupert G and the hello Deli merchandise he packs this stuff on his own if uh you ask really nicely he might even add onions to your online order so thank you very much we're just having a great time host uh producing The Lettermen podcast um thank you very much for all the early adopters join the Facebook group uh like share subscribe all of that crap thank you very much my name is Mike Chisholm thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants