Chris Harris might be the only guy to write for Letterman, Frasier, and the guy who played ‘Doogie Howser’

and you are watching the Letterman podcast welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisholm today's episode is a lot of fun if you've listened to one or two of these episodes in the past maybe three or four maybe you've been here from the beginning I don't know first off thank you very much second off you will know that I really enjoy talking to the writers and there's a lot of writers I haven't talked to yet I want to get to them all if I possibly can uh today is another episode with a writer uh during at the time of the recording the writers strike Chris and I talk a lot about that Chris Harris is uh he he had a long run on Late Show with David Letterman I mean well I guess that's a that's a matter of perspective right five and a half years six years that's that's a long time for a comedy writer to be in the trenches doing their thing there are some Marathon writers that are there there are some people that lasted for uh 113 week cycle um you know Chris is in the middle there but but five and a half years is a long time when you're doing what you're doing and we talk a lot about just how hectic it was and uh we have a we have a good good chat about the culture uh for a writer at Late Show with David Letterman now here's a cool thing about Chris Chris just finished the writing the re that's not a reboot the continuation of Frasier Fraser is about to come out I believe it's Paramount Plus in October uh 10 episodes were shot uh cut edited the whole thing before any of these strikes that are going on right now it's um very very exciting to see this you know there's there's a new generation of people that are going to be introduced to Frazier uh potentially but there's a generation of people who really enjoyed Frasier both of his time on Cheers and then of course his own uh darling of a of a show that uh won awards and and critical Acclaim and just was such a an iconic uh Smart TV show well now Frazier's moving back to Boston there's still more more stories to be told which is cool and Chris got to be um one of the few writers on on on that project pretty cool um so we kind of start the conversation talking about that we talk about the fact that he has written kind of for two icons he's put words in the mouth of two icons uh David Letterman of course and then and then uh Frasier Crane legendary fictional character uh he also was a key writer on How I Met Your Mother so we talk a bit about that as well lots of Letterman memories I just love talking to the writers um we're gonna have Chris back for sure it was a delightful conversation I texted him afterwards just at the end of the day saying man I really we did it in the morning and my day was fantastic after that conversation um I think you're going to see why we're both very very happy and of course we are talking we talk about the uh the strike that's going on as well and and boy I wish they would get this figured out I mean there are you hear of Hollywood meetings that happen over a breakfast you know like like get these let's get these sides to the back to the table and and and really you know let's be Equitable to the creatives out there um Chris is a is a good one he's a good egg uh and it's really cool that he took time out of his day to share uh with us some of the stories of his years at Letterman on the Lettermen podcast here so without further Ado I know I'm not supposed to say it but I'm setting it anyway without further Ado here is Chris Harris um so the thing about the interns that I love so much is there's there's two uh kind of Reflections that I'm getting from it number one yes um you know you and I will get into like really the weeds and some of these these these really really cool little moments the interns are the fresher uh lighter perspective I got to move Dave's car I I I got coffee for everybody and then you know just as I ran the corner at 53rd Street it all fell down on the ground and this is what I didn't think so but it's funny um I I did one that it actually hasn't come out yet but it's in the can where they were an intern during 9 11.

and and it was it was like their job as an intern almost many times was to help freshen up this battle-hardened Foxhole buddy staff that was you guys and the interns brought in a breath of fresh air and youth and vitality into the place so I'm I'm getting both of those you know from from this perspective but also hearing it from your perspective would you agree that's what the interns uh I felt like sometimes sometimes they took our fire so that we wouldn't so that we wouldn't be uh aiming at each other as much so so I there are definitely times I was like oh my gosh we're we're we're really uh we're really putting them through the ringer so it's funny to me that like you feel like they keep saying like I got to do this I got to do this because I I would imagine like the I think maybe because we were all older at the time I was like I I feel like I I think of those things as I had to do this I had to do that uh so good for them for having had such a great attitude about it but you're right they were fresher they were they were there was this Spirit of like I'm happy to be here you know especially after we'd all been there for for years uh it's it's it's a great perspective to get you know that that's sorry I'll just I'll just run off on a tangent because please do the show is all about brother yeah when you when you're when you're in the business when you're when you've been at Letterman for a few years or you know I'm out on the west coast now we'll talk about that well you know doing uh sitcoms after a year or two of it you or or decades in my case you you get jaded and so the the perspective of someone uh you know an intern and it's their first job in the in the in the business or bringing a guests on to set and watching them walk around you're like oh yeah this is really cool look at what we're doing this is so cool so so I imagine they're they're they're giving you some of that um that feeling when they're when they're doing interviews absolutely and and it's so funny Chris like like so many of them think about it and they're like it was the greatest time of my life like we had a guy by the name of of Ty Rogers on tyke is like a radio personality in in in like the Southwest like he and and his buddy Daniel have been like best friends and and Big Time morning radio show guys Regional but like right now they're in Tulsa and and I mean they're doing what they want to do he was inspired to go into broadcasting uh beforehand became an intern calls it the greatest time of his life and then he went in and became this broadcaster you know one of Paul's old interns uh Andy Carson hosts a good day Oregon and has for the last 20 years uh and and these are the things that are so and they they all the the thing that and I mean I mean I haven't talked to the ones who who didn't have a good experience yet I mean so maybe I'm Jude but it's my little Echo chamber happening but all of them have used the phrase it was one of the greatest times of my life and and uh I just I love hearing that that energy is infection this and uh you know I I'm certain that you feel this way too everybody has levels of it you know um whether they were there six months or they were there all 32 years um it's such a fun onion to peel and to get these layers of all the different perspectives I'm having just a ball doing this oh I'm sure yeah and absolutely I like it was it was such a special time for me it was you know and we we can get into it but it it really shaped my whole writing career it taught me how to write and that's not to say it was all it was all Rosy or it was all you know a laugh a minute it was really tough sometimes it was really and there were and there were stretches where it was where it was a slog but um but all of that but overall the experience was so positive and such a uh you know it's everything I've done since has been informed by uh what I learned there the people I met there and um uh yeah I mean I I owe all of my career to uh to that show I I I many times I like to I like to flip things up um and I'm going to do that right now I want to talk about other than okay the present moment you're on strike and we can talk about that in a second here but but previously just before the strike you finished a very cool project that a lot of people don't even know exists as I've I've said to a few people oh I'm getting Chris Harrison as soon as he finishes blank he's going to come on here and they're like I didn't know blank was happening uh what what was the last project that you were a part of uh the the the the the fill in the blank is Frasier uh yeah which is uh amazing and and in a way it sort of reminds me of of of uh joining Letterman for the first time was like oh my gosh I get to be a part of this uh legendary thing um the uh uh the my uh the other writer I wrote the uh who I'm doing the show with Joe cristali um approached me years ago he'd heard that uh how Kelsey was finally looking to to he's ready to to get back until the next chapter of Frazier's life and thus started a many many years process of uh us uh there was a bake off which basically he uh he and his team Kelsey and his team interviewed several writers lots of writers I think more than a dozen each each having their own sort of version of a pitch of like okay here's here's the story here's what here's what uh Frazier's been up to here's here's how the here's how things have changed uh and eventually we were um uh we were so you know we were so we we we went down from over a dozen to six and from six to three and then it was and then we were the last people standing uh worked with Kelsey for a long time to hone it sold it lots of lots of logistical things in the in the in the background that caused it to be delayed for a few years but finally this year we uh we shot 10 episodes for Paramount plus uh it's um it's going gonna I believe the premiere date is October 12th uh can we talk about it like can I ask you some questions or are they and are we in NDA land still no I I'll I'll ask away and uh if I if I sort of hemenha then um that's one that's probably just my natural uh interview style but but two I'll let you know if there's anything uh okay shot in front of a studio audience shot in front of a studio audience which was such a delight because there is you know there is nothing like that feel of uh you know you're working without a net it's show biz uh a lot again a lot like late night where you're doing it in front of an audience um so much of TV is you're distant from the people yeah I've been on a lot of single camera shows that I'm very proud of and I love but there's just nothing like putting on it's it's a stage play you put on a new stage play every week and then you bring it to the edit room and and bring it together so it was it was a delight and it was invigorating um you know and you know there's there's some of these things online now so I feel like I'm I'm on side but he goes back to Boston uh which yeah which is cool um yeah and my first question is uh because I loved Frazier I there's this there's a Frasier joke that I have been telling since high school that I just thought it was one of the funniest sitcom jokes of all time Frasier talked about how uh in his ex his his he was in his existential class and he was voted most likely to be I just love that joke yes it was such a smart show uh he's back in Boston is it still a smart show I we hope so we pray to God you know I I will tell you it was because I you know I've been on any any writer who's been on been in TV for for decades will have plenty of these stories where you know you you think of something smart and then it gets it gets squashed or it gets dumbed down or anything it was such a delight because Frazier the reputation was already this is a smart show with smart jokes and the the to go in and being able to tell smart jokes and being able to try let's be clever let's let's uh let's challenge ourselves let's not get away with and by the way like the other the flip side is let's set the bar really high for ourselves and so we worked really hard because this this uh you know it's one of the we're fully aware you know that's all on our shoulders this the notion like we're bringing back one of the most iconic beloved well-regarded critically decorated how many enemies did that dude win like I mean holy smoke yeah yeah one fewer Than a Game of Thrones I think the show the show so there's something like Frasier won a total number of Emmys that was one fewer than Game of Thrones so that was a big part of the reason Kelsey wanted to bring this back damn it we've gotta we've got to be the ones we've got to make our Mark so so uh so yeah so we got dragons now uh no no oh good no it was it wasn't and Dragons pressure and and I think in a good way where it challenged us to say okay let's let's tell these smart stories because you know since you know in the last 20 years the multicam world has been pretty it's been pretty dire and here's the best chance that anyone has to bring back this classic form like where it's really like this is this is where comedy began on TV and all of the great great shows uh so many of them were this format so uh no we were fully aware like and and loved writing smart jokes like we can mention Occam's razor for example you know like and and we don't have to we can just throw it away you know it's a throwaway joke and and if not everyone gets it great uh but um but that's true to Fraser true to his character and we tried to keep it um yeah make that World um still still be the world where we can we can tell those jokes it's so exciting um you know know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go down any spoiler territory or anything like that obviously people would want to know hey anybody from that cheer show gonna be on it's impossible let's let them it's October it's not that far away um this is the part that I'm very very interested in because I want to go back to how you got to Letterman and whatnot but I want to bridge it by saying this you got to just recently go and write for like you said like a an iconic character known for these particular attributes smart being one of them and and many the list goes on when it comes to Frasier Crane and and and and and that character you got to go in and write for this established uh institution from that realm of entertainment not unlike what the writers were doing every day with Dave and and I mean I can I can already tell you wanted to do right by Frasier and every writer that I have talked to has always I want to do right by Dave I want to get the voice right perfectly I want to please him I want to help him all of that kind of stuff and and and I don't imagine that the experiences in that regard are dissimilar from each other that must be that must be in the same Arena it'd be weird if I said you were wrong yeah you know I I went in to bring David we do oh my God I am a buffoon uh you know you're totally right and there was that I mean um you know and and there are differences of course you know but um you know Frasier I was running it and and and Letterman I was just a you know a cog in this in this already uh incredibly functioning machine but uh but it was also my first job in television so absolutely there was this oh my God I'm uh I'm working for Letterman and I'll go back a little bit if you want and I'll sort of like my way in was a little in um you know I I done writing but I would I had uh it was really the break of my life the my entire career to get the chance to uh to apply for Letterman and then to work for him basically I'd been doing magazine writing and and and and and stuff and and really was doing okay but I was also like supplementing my life with doing PowerPoint slides for consulting firms and uh and one of the magazines was was uh uh a complete failure but it was uh but it had a cult following and uh the head writer of Letterman at the time was uh Rodney Rothman was a was a fan of the magazine and he talked to the editor and said hey is there anyone from the from the magazine that uh I should hire because I'm looking to bring in some people who aren't necessarily uh from TV uh uh uh Dave Eggers the the who's gone on to have a pretty good career himself and he was the editor of the magazine said yeah a heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius is a phenomenal book for anybody who hasn't read it it it lives up to the title yeah absolutely sorry yeah wow and so I was basically I was invited to apply and uh uh I I was able to put together a packet and some of my you know the the funny charts and graphs that I've been doing in in at the front of magazines and a few weeks later suddenly out of nowhere I was on a plane and and I started at Letterman so you know within a month time I went from oh you know trying to figure out what you know if I was gonna write another humor book or something like that and then to suddenly literally walking up to the 14th floor and just you know wide-eyed and and oh my God there's Jerry Mulligan there are these people like just just just sort of awestruck that suddenly I was among this group of of writers so it was a it was a very fast um very fast change for me but it's one that I'm I'm incredibly grateful for and one that's like I said shaped me ever since I I love talking about this because your entrance is is um everybody's entrances unique um you know how how they ended up in that room in that writer's room yeah you know from from interning and then ending up you know answering the phones or being hired as a writers assistant or or working your way to a radio assistant and then finally making it in there you know all that stuff you got brought in um to go back to the magazine for just a second if you were doing charts and graphs and visual aids within that magazine visual comedy I imagine Rod Rothman was probably like you know salivating at the idea oh here's a guy who can bring in extras immediately we can do desk pieces we can do this kind of stuff or am I off base there totally yeah you're totally right like he um you know he he said you know he he looked at some of these charts and said well you know you changed the format and that's a top 10 list exactly yeah yeah and this thing oh that could be that could be something that somebody holds up like during the interview which um you know and and I'd you know I I barely the the time between hearing about this opportunity and me sitting down New York was was literally less than a week so I'd hardly even seen the show recent so I didn't even know what the what the latest things was so of course we went to top 10 lists because of course that's the that's the most iconic thing but yeah and and he was a and he was able to say okay you can this this brain that's doing these things could be a brain that does these other things too and uh you're totally right like that that little little bits and pieces and and funny way of looking at things helped me a lot yeah like like you think about how many desk pieces Dave has done where he you know holds up a chart or a graph or he holds up you know a funny Photoshop thing or he holds up a newspaper or whatever like like all that stuff yeah new books and and everything just anything anything where it's just like this funny thing and and it by the way it took me a while like it uh you know my first six months I would say was really difficult because basically I you know looking back I was playing catch-up like I just hadn't been thinking about late night TV I hadn't I hadn't been you know I was I was obviously a fan but I hadn't I wasn't uh I hadn't been watching the show religiously and so I had a lot of ideas about uh the show that that maybe the uh Dave's inclinations had moved on since then and I also I just hadn't written enough to to really write through the obvious ideas you know so so much of Letterman is about like oh let's take the obvious idea then let's twist it and maybe let's twist it again because they're already expecting that first twist and it took me a long time to to process that so the first six months I you know I got things on here and there but it took me a while to really lock into um to the show and so I I was I I am also grateful that they gave me the space to figure it out well and and we'll get to the we'll get to the two 13-week periods that were probably pretty stressful for you there I mean you know we've talked about that a little bit but before that uh had you what city were you doing the magazine in and had you ever lived in New York before I had uh no I grew up in Connecticut so I knew New York but uh I'm not uh I'd never lived there uh I was in San Francisco um and yeah I uh I'd basically been there about five years I was 28 when I started at Letterman um and uh I'd had a uh I'd had a uh humor book that that came out that sold about like 12 copies and I'm not I'm not necessarily um uh proud of a lot of it but but I was able to use that to sort of Get magazine writing and I really I really thought like oh I'll just keep doing this and I'll keep um you know me you know fortunately I moved into TV because the whole magazine industry imploded not too long after I started did you write for it give us a give us a murder it was a it was a ESPN when they had a magazine when they first started out I had a bunch of crazy stuff in there and it was they were so funny because you know I see yeah I had the opportunity to do a bunch of weird weird charts and and weird comparisons and I I literally told them you know I don't know a lot about sports and they said that's okay that's why this is great that's why we love it it's just coming to yeah so uh I did that there were um I mean so many like a little bit of Esquire a little bit of uh um I think a little bit of Entertainment Weekly a little bit of uh um a bunch of magazines that have gone away POV and um things like that and the details that was one of my favorite oh yeah I definitely did a bunch with details I yeah I had a lot I love that magazine growing up yeah yeah I definitely did a bunch I think I had like a little regular little column in there for a little while yeah yeah not organic everybody I did not know this this just popped up I had no idea they had a regular little like is it a is it a blank or a blank and some of these ended up becoming um you know like top 10 uh supermodels or Mideast Nations you know I sort of like these were charts that actually ended up becoming useful for top 10 lists every once in a while but uh recycle recycle recycle oh totally yeah and and you know some of the stuff that that was or was going to be a magazines ended up at Letterman some of the stuff that didn't make it into Letterman ended up being in TV shows later on it's it's always fun when when an idea that you love comes back save it all pad out and don't throw them away exactly oh that's fun okay so so uh San Fran to New York I mean so you had a network there already you had some couches you could surf on or did you like did you find your apartment right away are you I did oh no no it took it took about a month and a half and yeah there were a bunch of couches at the beginning and and uh um yeah it took me a while to find my footing so but uh while working while getting uh onboarded and working at a very fast-paced plays trying to very fast very very long hours especially the especially uh during that era uh in fact I you know I found a friend from high school that I that I crashed with I remembered I remember that first day sort of sort of going through it writing the top 10 lists and um uh then you know as I'm sure folks have talked about you know the writers all eat dinner in the conference room while we watch the live feed as the show's being taped I saw top 10 like one of the a few that I'd written I think Rodney was feeling generous in the time like a few that I'd written that day were on the actual top 10 list I couldn't believe it uh and then after dinner I go home and I'm watching it on um somehow the television is out of the television is our words that I just wrote a few hours ago and that was such a mind-blowing thing that that I'd been in I'd been in that office I thought it up and now here I am sitting on my friend's sofa uh watching and then then like the next day I came in and Rodney said where were you and I had no idea that actually everyone else had stayed there till past midnight working on the mailbag for that week so so I'd almost got I almost got fired that first day because I just wandered off after uh after uh after the show after the show figures great we'll see you tomorrow oh but uh no oh that's hilarious yeah okay let's talk about okay um okay so your your your friend's couch and all that and you figure your way all that but I want to talk about that first day who was in um there's a lot of people who who like to talk about comedians now and and Dave was just on Neil Brennan's podcast and he said to Neil who was in your class I like thinking about that with comedy writers as well who was in that room when you got there originally who was the uh yeah when I when I first got there um let's see well it was uh Rodney was head writer and there are a lot there are a lot of folks that were were there but we're not yet writers like Lee Ellenberg was uh still Rodney's assistant Tommy ruprecht was still down a couple floors uh the both of them became you know two of the folks I was close yeah uh and and uh and some of my best friends there um let's see there was uh I I can just go down the list um there was Joe toplin was in on one side of me then it was me then Steve Young uh was right in the office next to mine which was you know that was amazing um Mentor is right there holy oh my God yeah uh Carter and Craig were been there for a little bit under a year and we're already Superstars and and you know I could fill up like three podcasts talking about how incredible they are they're nice too and then the writers but great guys as well oh yeah a few folks who who you know weren't around for too much like DJ javabaum who was who was who was great and then went on to um uh went on to Jon Stewart um I'm trying to think I'm I'm missing uh I'm missing somebody big uh but I'm sure it'll come to me and Grossman Weren't There Yet nope they weren't there yet okay yeah um let's see uh yeah Alex and Pete had just left a year or two earlier um anyway yeah so it'll come it'll come yeah and it was and it was really like wow here this is a this is yeah Murderers Row this is this is amazing so um and and to me the surprising thing was oh yeah there's the morning meeting and here we all are and then and I think others will talk about this then at that time you went back to your office and you got your assignments and you mostly worked on your own so that was that was a you know there was that initial moment of oh my God here are all these Legends I'm part of this legendary writing team and then a secondary moment of I'm in my office and I'm now what yeah um and then also you know I I assume back then was the uh had it already been established you know you have your little uh your little uh uh catch uh outside of the outside of the door that would constantly be filled with assignments and things right you got to open them oh yeah there it is yeah the paper sliding under the door yeah or more top tens uh 210 uh more kais uh 330 uh yeah Bob Borden would sort of sort of walk down the hall and and and and deliver them all so it was it was a and and I'll I'll say that you know in terms of like that was by far one of the biggest and most important takeaways for me as a writer was you know I think up until then I'd been a writer but it's like oh I I think I've been very precious about what I wrote for absolutely no reason whatsoever and Letterman was such a great boot camp in terms of I yep that you have to hand in for this next assignment yep and now you have to do for this one oh oh you're not feeling funny today too bad yeah you gotta be funny anyway oh you you're you're bummed that uh this idea that you loved was rejected tough you got to write something that you love at least as much again and again and again uh there was so much writing and uh you know that that was Dave's prerogative like a you know less than five percent of what we wrote came close to getting on the air uh one for quality of a lot of the stuff that we wrote wasn't didn't deserve to be but two also for Dave's taste or Dave's mood of that day and so we had you had to you had to hit that Bullseye and um that that was such a great lesson that there's always another joke there's always another idea there's always another uh way to solve a problem whether it's a problem of of content or a problem of of of what to do with a guest or anything like that uh because as I mean and that's been with me through decades and Decades of crises where suddenly you know on a sitcom oh the Beast story sucked well we gotta throw it out when we got to uh you know we or this this scene we just played it in front of an audience and it died we've got to write something right now in the next 10 minutes because uh you know it and so all of that like that that lesson from Letterman of don't be precious you just let go what you already wrote and write something new um and you got to make it great so um again it was a hard lesson to learn but one of the most valuable lessons of all of my uh TV writing career I'm so I'm so glad we're talking about this because there's a question that I've been meaning to ask uh along this vein here so when I first started this show it was um the the thought that I had in my mind whenever I'd have a writer on and say Hey you know was there anything that like you were attached to that you wish would have gone on that never did kind of the path not taken I'm a big guy when I get my DVDs I love going to the deleted scenes and things like that and it was actually Tommy I asked the question a couple of times and most of the time it fell flat and and Tommy and I talked about it and he was like you know what the only thing I'm I can remember to answer this question is the stuff that was in like my first couple weeks because I immediately learned you can't get attached to anything because because of because of that so I can tell you something at the very beginning because that was when I was attached but then you learn the skill not to be and the question that I didn't I've never asked that I've wanted to is did that cut into the gratification when something would go on the air and you would see it and you would see it realized and maybe you did get a laugh or two or whatever were you able to be gratified from that or was it like like young calls it the broken comedy Raider uh mentality where it's just like yeah no it it's just it's just there like it's a little everything gets set of flat you gotta hold on to the Joy I mean if you're not doing it for those moments then then yeah don't then then pack it up you know I I like if if and I'm not saying that like as a as a matter of like like hold on to this one tiny thing because if you don't love that process if you don't appreciate like yeah you're not going to get all hits you know nobody bats a thousand nobody that's 500 you know uh none of us batted 200 but um no there's I I I it it in a way it made it more precious because you it went you went through that that many more Hoops there you go there you go but yeah it was I mean yeah and you're right and I totally agree with Tommy where there is a little bit of a uh a Zen mentality that comes through where you just you know you you create and then you let it go you know you you you do the Sam mandala and then you wipe it clean and and you start over um but I'm gonna say that to Young next time I talk to Young when he says the the broken comedy thing I'm gonna say no no it's not the broken comedy writer thing it's a Zen comedy thing yeah and by the way it's so easy for me back like and then then yeah like behind the scenes footage of me cursing and punching holes yeah yeah oh yeah later on but but no idea and there's absolutely like if I went through because I got my old files somewhere in in some dusty corner of my computer and I'm sure I could go through things and find tons of things and any writer could tons of things that we wrote and we loved and and didn't end up going anywhere but that's okay you know look at the amazing things we did do you know uh like I said the deleted scene thing that that I that I have in my head um one of the things I want to try and I I try and pester Walter as much as I'm allowed to without you know getting blocked uh one of the things with that Letterman Channel I would love to see if possible because there's a lot of extras that got produced all the way oh yeah for one reason or another it could have been it could have been like you say it Dave's mood it could have been a life event that happened it could have been something where we just didn't get to it and it never ended up there's a lot of stuff that's been produced that was never released I would love to see some of that stuff it's got to be somewhere yeah every day you know let's say we did we produced four extras and we'd be lucky if two got on the air and and you're totally right like sometimes it's just not tickling Dave that day sometimes it's like oh this overlaps with this one and he picked he picked a not b um oh yeah and that was that was part of it so yeah absolutely there's so many I'm sure there's so many amazing things and and probably a bunch of things that that should probably so underground too uh at least some of the ones that I did for sure you talk about those first though we've talked about the 13 uh Week deals that writers get you know you're you're um you get in there okay we're gonna guarantee you 13 weeks you find out a few weeks beforehand yeah they're going to re-up you so you talked about the first six months that's two of those periods for you two of those Cycles yeah you've talked a little bit about some of the things you learned along the way um if do you have any more of those like okay this is why it was tough for the first six months and I wasn't sure about things or uh things that you learned along the way that made the next six months after a little bit more enjoyable yeah I think so much of it was just you it was almost like learning the language uh you know like like I was the and and it was it was a frightening first six months and and I imagine if you talk to Rodney he'll he would say yeah I thought about letting him go you know like I ended up having a really uh good and and uh fruitful uh time at Letterman I was there for you know between four and a half and five years but yeah but yeah it could have very easily veered off uh in a different direction um it was really there was a just a sense of the show that it's hard to explain but but it took me a while to to to Really adapt to where it's like oh okay this is the kind of thing this is the kind of twist that is working these days or this is the kind of thing that works and it's like uh a little surreal but not too surreal um something that has a point I don't know they were just like all these like intangible things and uh meanwhile I was writing and I I sort of like blindly hit on a couple things that that happened to work here we go okay I I honest honest to God I I think you know when I when I talk about it I I really think yeah and I pieces on I had little little things on like oh here's a here's a trailer or where they uh where they say too much about the movie you're like plenty of like funny little little produced pieces that that kept me going but I feel like there were two hits that I had that were totally random in the first six months um uh one and totally different one of them was a a big a big elaborate produced piece and another one was just a throwaway on on stage and the big elaborate produced one I don't go into it in detail but please do it no no seriously it was literally exists my friend I'm the guy to tell I love it and I'm not saying this because it's the greatest thing ever but I'm saying this because it I think what it said was it told Rodney and the other writers okay he's coming around he gets it give him give him another give them another 13 weeks cycle he's finding it um you know and Carter and Craig were the masters of of Alan Coulter and and everything and they had so many of the the best pieces and I know that you the uh the the one where he he freaks out in his office is is my top five I had one piece this was around when um both Saving Private Ryan and the Finn Red Line came out at the at around the same time Alan interrupts David hey Dave I have my own uh I have my own gritty World War II Epic uh you want to take a look and Dave said okay sure and went out we I think it was um is it Inwood Park it's the park near The Cloisters up up in and we spent a whole day there Jerry Foley and I we we hired extras and everything just this giant sort of uh this piece and it was it was a POV camera shaky cam of Allen in World War II and he the the first couple lines are Alan's like oh I know this war is just but doesn't have to cost so dearly and then and then his second in command says I know one way you can save money just out ten ten four five six before and it was one of those uh those those cards that were popular at the time and then the rest the whole rest of the thing turns into this commercial where like there's a guy who's who's who's who's bleeding out of his midsection who says yeah and and the rates are are a bit and it's just it's it's and it's kind of tasteless I you know so that's but it it it captured something and it it played really well and I think that that one um that one worked really well for me and then the other the other thing which again is the opposite end of the spectrum but I feel like oh that's that's what Dave's looking for was um uh off-screen celebrity Cameo where it was basically uh Dave's at his desk ladies and gentlemen time for another off-screen celebrity Cameo the the the the Chiron comes on screen the camera holds on Dave and meanwhile over over on off camera on the stage a big celebrity comes out and and waits like so you're watching Dave The Crowd Goes Nuts because here's this famous person here anyways and then a hand reaches in Dave shakes his hand but you don't see who's whose hand it is then he leaves and that's it and it is a total screw you to the audience it is like like too bad too bad TV audience you're never gonna know who it was and a treat for those in the Ed Sullivan Theater and we've talked about that like that place had a different energy yes a different like it is so beautiful that Dave got that place after 30 Rock because again entirely unique entirely and so giving them a treat like that yes there's an energy that shows up which translates over to us at like it's it's brilliant um okay how many of those did you do do you think Chris we did a few and then we did some variations like out of focus celebrity Cameo so it sort of it went on for a little while uh and but when it aired I didn't even know who it was uh I think that's even better okay so I gotta know the nuts and bolts of it then like yeah did you shoot that segment with a huge star that was on a certain night and then you showed it on a different night when it was a different star on the show like that was done live it was done live so it was so they brought in a new celebrity that wasn't advertised for it correct but oh wow but it was Tony you know it was Tony Randall the first time of course because because I think it should be I think we we cycled through like Tony Randall Regis Philbin like it was all it was all the classics um but of course they got the most gigantic Applause from the audience so oh yeah but the spontaneity of it it doesn't matter who it is as long as there's any name recognition the audience is stoked because it's somebody unadvertised right yeah exactly and and I vividly remember one I was excited that oh my gosh the thing that I wrote they're they're they're doing you know again eating our dinner watching the feed and then I vividly remembered Dave laughing to himself at the end of the bit and I'm like ah okay that's it that's it that seems to be the gold star that most if not all of you were trying to achieve if you could get Dave to chuckle if you could get like my little moment with Dave too and talk about it incessantly yeah it doesn't matter we don't need to talk I made him laugh in the Q a I made David Letterman laugh and it's one of the greatest moments of my life much to my wife's Chagrin it is like it is above moments that it should not be above for moments in my my top 10 moments of my life yeah she's like really making like and you guys experience that every single night or didn't experience it every single night but you had the hope of it and hoping every night and and yeah I I you know in my in the story I tell in my head that's when you know the clouds started to part and and people started to hey you want to write write a mailbag together you know like like things started to come together and and and I was I was part of the would you call that a refillable was that a refillable yeah yeah that was a refillable I mean it was refillable yeah not as it wasn't as didn't do it as often as some of the other ones but but absolutely a refillable yeah totally now um you do it the first time it's gonna like you even called it a throwaway somebody then comes to you and says let's do that again or did you pitch let's do it again I think um I don't remember what it had it just felt like we had those like oh here's here's we can do another one of those I feel like he became you know I I don't think there was a concrete list or maybe there was probably there was a card up in the uh in the head writer's office like okay here here's some things that we can go some go-to's we ever need to yeah yeah uh that's a great feeling I I I thank you for explaining like that's those are the moments that I love doing this show like selfishly uh I love hearing those moments and then going behind the scenes the Allen culture uh Moment by the way has been on the live the uh the the Lettermen channel for sure on somebody's um oh it has either requested it or something but it's also on Don giller's uh it's on the The Collection that Don dealer put up about Alan as well so it's in there I highly recommend like for those who like to go down the dawn Giller um uh rabbit holes the Allen culture like Tony Mendez is so big it's like seven parts and each one is 90 minutes like it's so big Allen's I believe is one big collection and it has it's it it's comfort food for me highly recommend going to Don's Channel but I think that that 1-800 collected one is on uh potential Channel somewhere too oh that's that's great yeah and and by the way and by the way Alan was was I know there was a like there was nothing he couldn't do it he was it was amazing and and by the way also Don like as as someone who as a you know to curate and and collect and be a be a a resource uh for Letterman it's really amazing what it is what and a storybook that he gets to work with them now like that to me is like the fact that he's uh you know in the pants in pants land uh that makes me so so happy and and now that you know now that our boy Sheck is gone I mean you know Dawn is the um you know he is the archive you know Archive of this show and he has it all he knows it all and uh I'm so grateful about that too and every time somebody comes on here and gives Don some love that's a good thing I couldn't get him on to come on today unfortunately but he comes on these from time to time is that okay it's amazing no yeah we've never I don't think we've ever um communicated but but from afar I've always just been amazed at uh yeah what a and and it shows like like the not every show gets someone like that and there's a reason why Letterman has you know there's a reason why we're talking there's a reason why why he has everything there's a reason why so many of the people who worked for him for years and years still get together all the time and and and are happy to share those memories it's pretty incredible I could not agree more uh this is so great uh Chris I'm having I'm having a ball doing this here with you uh okay so you you get through the first six months um you kind of move for the next thing what were some of the things that you kind of were there things that you gravitated towards or were you more a utility player um were there any other extras that you kind of put out there that you were you're you're you're really really proud of in those next couple of years plenty that plenty for sure and and you know I I I never like for example was in charge a mailbag or anything like that but those Carter well Carter and Craig I mean you had to take those keys away from those guys that would be really tough no way I I could never have done what they did it was it was really amazing um I definitely was it was you know I you know I yeah I looked up to Steve Young as man if I could ever be a third as all-around funny and useful and good in any situation as as Steve is then then I'll be I'll be fine because he was such a as a writer who'd been there for a long time but had never but hadn't you know lost a step or hadn't never felt like he was he was going to start to run out of ideas which is just breathtaking to me um I inherited a few uh a few things that that you know at least for a little while became my own um pedestrian theme songs uh I I was gonna ask if you did any musical stuff that's bad oh my God yeah and I like that that was just such a such a delight we had uh some of my best some of some of the the pieces that I was most responsible for uh that uh that some of the pieces that did the best were uh that I was responsible for were um pedestrian theme songs and that that was one of my favorite memories would be the times like going in to record them with Paul and the band and just watching him and I'd say something stupid because I I don't I like music I don't know music but I'd say uh I don't know maybe something that's a little bit like Grand Funk Railroad I was like okay I need to uh we'll do this uh and then suddenly it sounds exactly like taking care of business and I don't know how or why but it's like it's exactly it's exactly that song or or I say uh I don't know maybe Hungry Heart and and suddenly it's like it's like a you know it's it's a wall of sound and the jingling and the Jung the and he's such a genius and it would it would just take him like a fraction of a second to know exactly how to or or I'd say Busby Berkeley and and and suddenly it would sound like this old old tiny thing and I I just to to this day like just in awe of his ability and to and his like just there's it's a genius like I've never seen absolutely the greatest ear in in music in our generation I mean you know he's iconic in so many ways not just like it's it's The Ensemble um obviously led by Paul and whatnot but I mean like will and I have have started we started to communicate quite a bit like we talked like three times on the phone last week and and and the awe that he feels for Paul and here is like one of the Rolling Stone you know one of the greatest basses of all time one of the great biggest Studio musicians and one Elite like is in awe of Paul it's uh it's beautiful to see that you got to see that up close and personal uh yeah and to like to think of all of that genius being used to compose like a 15 second ditty about a guy who gave the camera the finger you know it's just like it's just it's just amazing so um that was pedestrian theme songs I I loved doing I did I was in charge of Dave's Video Collection for a while which was oh that's cool the ugly stepchild of Dave's record collection but um that was uh that was I spent so many hours just watching the most the ridiculous crazy or boring or whatever old VHS tapes looking for this did she ever help you with that did you and Ricky had a few and um definitely and uh and and folks in research too by the way uh for sure yeah who's gone on to I think uh make a make a great uh Festival out of it um but um yeah so I did I did I did uh that and then um you know the second half after about a year and a half two years there I started doing the remotes um both the both the the local remotes like fun with a stopwatch fun with bullhorn and then the the the travel ones like uh I inherited Biff Henderson's America from Eric stangle once he and Justin uh moved up elevated yeah yeah uh did some sports things did some uh and and I love those were those were all a delight always did you go on the road with with that stuff yeah we did uh we did I think I did three or four small towns um did a Super Bowl did at least one Super Bowl um a few other few other um a few other trips yeah I did a Grammys yeah I mean and it's like it's amazing you you again the the what I always tried to do and I'm not saying I was always successful but always have like a little piece of the brain like like looking around going look at what you're doing yes okay you're getting paid for this yeah yeah and and just was gonna ask about if you were able to be present during those moments so I'm glad you're talking about this yeah I tried as much and by the way I constantly have tried to do that throughout because there is it's a life secret being present that's that's a secret life and especially just we're I'm getting paid a good amount of money to make people laugh to bring joy to people and that's true not just at Letterman but at my career since then and um you know it's it's not always easy it's sometimes very frustrating things don't turn out the way you way you want but again like I'm spending my day laughing with other people putting together things that that hopefully make other people smile that's amazing what a what how you know the we um I had a show with that with Carter and Craig that ended up being a very troubled show and ended up getting shut down early Scott Foley um was one of the actors in it and when we called him to say that we were shutting down he took a beat and then he said well how lucky are we and I just I just I've always remembered that sentence because it wasn't even how lucky were we it's like how lucky are we we we get to do something like this whether it succeeds or not hopefully it does hopefully it brings joy to people uh but either but either way look at look at what we're doing so uh you you were preaching to the choir sir and I'm talking about even like right now um doing this show I've got a lot of plates that are spinning in my life like I all sorts of stuff that are going on this show is one of the one of the times where I get really hyper present like and grateful at the same time present and grateful are those two things if you can put those two things together for those moments you're kind of you're kind of an immortal like like right now I'm feeling that doing having this conversation about this topic doing this show it that's absolutely how I feel how lucky am I and it doesn't matter the outcome of this show at this point does not matter it's the moment itself that is just so beautiful this is the this is the reason this is the this is the thing yeah I think that's totally could not agree more um you know uh talking about the video collection there for a second um that's really neat too like the idea of coming up with something that became irrefillable but also being bestowed something that's had some tradition on the show um that's kind of a you know talk about those gold stars that's another type of gold star too that you're entrusted with something that's been around either to invigorate it or to continue it that's kind of a neat thing as well oh yeah very much and and you know I I was I you know when I when I got the assignment I you know I went back and I looked at the old ones and I said okay I'm getting a sense and and Steve Young again was was super helpful with like here's here's what really tickles Dave here's here's the kind of stuff that maybe not so much and and yeah it was like that it's such a funny it's such a funny task because that um Video Collection specifically because you can't even like listen to it while you really have to watch and so you spend you just sort of spend hours watching through these just mind like a flower arrangement and manners and this and that and you're just waiting for waiting for that eight second clip of it that could be yeah yeah and sometimes sometimes it's like oh this is a this is a transcendental massage okay this is this is gonna have something good in it so sometimes you know that you sometimes you're you're you're very hopeful uh and other times you're just like I don't know and uh you're just looking for yeah looking for that gold nugget in that that's one that I think they could probably get away with doing a super cut on like like I loved um like Tommy doing great moments in presidential speeches and then and then when the the official Channel put up the uh they put up basically a super cut of it they did a they did a like a really long version of it where typically on the show you'd have one moment kind of a thing but you know they did the the video collection thing I think probably is one that could probably have a super cut too um and and what the thing I love about that one uh in particular maybe even more so than the record collection is The X Factor and The X Factor of course is having the greatest broadcaster who happens to be also one of the wittiest broadcasters of all time who gets to throw out and and this is one of the details that I got to ask about um because by that point was Dave still doing Dave wouldn't have been doing rehearsals at that point right he stopped um when did he stop was he like during your run did he stop he stopped during my run I remember um I think it might have been he might have stopped after you know our 911 break and just never never come back I think that moment yeah that seems to be around the time if it wasn't the time it was around the time and I'm curious because you know rehearsal that's he's gonna see the video at that point and no or maybe you've ever proved it or whatever and then at the live show or the the taping of the show which feels live you know that's where the juice is there he's his it's been going on in his mind um you know and then and then suddenly something spontaneous comes out that you're like oh and he just makes it that much better um yeah versus him not rehearsing you not seeing him see the reaction of the video that must have been is that is that something that that was uh that was an adjustment for you like or like do I have it wrong yeah I mean he it was very when he was I do remember like that first year when he when he was still rehearsing it was it was all fairly formal so you know he uh and rightly so he was he was saving the the show for the show yeah um so you know there wasn't a huge difference between him trying it out at the desk and circling and saying let's do better than this or just getting the notice that he he would like some alts on on whatever joke he was saying so I don't know if there was a a huge substantive difference um but um but no and and half the time you know obviously we wrote These the little quips for him to say and and sometimes he had a couple options and a lot of the time he'd just say something that was uh totally his own and it was or just talked with Paul about it and it was 100 times more entertaining and then whatever silly thing we'd have come up with uh that must have been its own kind of uh fun around the table whenever he would come up with one of those things that was just you know jaw-dropping or whatever I could just kind of see all you guys and girls like kind of just go you know like that's Mozart like when it comes to that stuff exactly there's there's no comparing and and you know if you take in the words that he said and put them on the paper you wouldn't think they're anything special but guess what he knows himself better than anyone else he knows the audience better than anyone else and and yeah that thing that I'm not even sure if that like that well we had a hard joke and that's a half joke nope half joke was the right you know like like that was a real that was a real reaction or talking to Paul about it that's that's the real thing and that that was you know I think that was a little bit there was always a little bit of a contrast between the writer's mentality and that of Dave and I don't know if folks have talked about this before but you know we as writers we we wanted our written stuff of course to be on the air and there were many times and and for and depending on the stretch there would there would sometimes be it would sometimes be frequent and sometimes it would be infrequent when Dave would decide you know we have this prepared thing sometimes you'd see the stack of uh new books sitting on his desk and instead he'd talk about his trip to the dentist or he decided to talk to a one of the one of the folks on uh I want to focus on staff or just shoot shoot the ball with with Paul and from The Writer's point of view that was always a little bit difficult but uh but you know with 20 years perspective and and more and I think we all understand that well of course that's what made the show great was you know these insights into uh Dave's life and the the the personal uh not just touch but the the the his his own life that he that he added to the show because anybody could do uh here's here's this funny new product but uh but that's what made the Late Show special was the fact that Dave Wood you you would you would go into his own life or his own psyche every once in a while you would you would feel like him just like I just want to talk to somebody for real right now you know I don't want to I don't want to do a comedy bit I just want to I just want to reach out to somebody I just want to talk to and and I feel I think that's you know again like we as writers we were focused on the written but um I I think it took a little bit of stepping back to realize well that's a that's an important part of the show but it's not the show The X Factor is always Dave in so many different ways like in so many different ways totally yeah you know whether it's the monologue emphasizing a certain place and not you know looking over at a certain time to a certain staff member like you say uh during guest segments you know I mean obviously things prepared but then you know the segment producer they give lines to to to the guests and all that he wants to be the best that he can and then Dave deciding to be that X Factor and taking it in a completely different way right and the same with comedy pieces like you say um Carter Carter talks about that in his second book in the war for late night you know he talks about that the fact that he would go off on these tangents more and more but I'll tell you from a from a from an Enthusiast perspective my very favorite segment of that show of Late Show was the moment Dave finished the monologue and then after they they changed it to the commercial break rather than Paul playing him to the desk um and then after the commercial break that first segment after the commercial break was my favorite part of Late Show no matter what was going on in my life I loved I loved that and sometimes like you say it was it was a potpourri and the moments where you know things went off the rails um this is leading to a question I think your answer is going to be no but I don't know that for a fact because even like during your run texting was a thing but it wasn't like it was I was talking to somebody about the moment do you know the moment where the show went off the rails because of of playing the Eagles song do you know about that oh wait which which moment was that that was uh so they were gonna there were some people in the audience uh during the Q a that wanted them to play an Eagles song I think is what it was and then it got onto the show where they're like Dave was like can we play an eagle song can we not play an eagle song and Nancy from the podium got involved and said don't do it it's gonna cost us all this money and and Chaos happened and it was just this chaotic moment so one of the writers just during that segment reached out to me and he said hey during that segment just so you know around the writer's table uh this is what was going on and and we were like messaging we were texting Bill chef from the from the from the moment this is real time during the show like and it and the stuff we were texting him ended up getting being part of the dialogue and all of that kind of stuff so my question which I think the answer is going to be no I don't think this happened very often but was there ever a time where you're around the table the show is going on real time and suddenly you guys are called to attention to contribute somehow yeah I mean definitely a few times um I'm trying to I I feel like there every once in a while there was a crisis one where we you know we're we need something for this guest or this thing or this thing just fell through and and we need an ending I and then a few times which were the more fun times were um there was an idea and especially like oh let's take this thing that happened at the top of the show and and turned it into a top ten and I specifically remember one not because it was the best but but just because I remember that sort of feeling and it was early on in my in my uh in my time there there was I I can't tell you what the beginning was but it was Dave and I think it was just Dave and Paul joking around and and how how military people always always end every sentence with with sir and uh and and it was and basically Rodney called up to the to the to the room and said okay we're gonna do new top ten it's like punch lines to jokes they tell in the military and it was all just like it was all just you know uh I can't think of a single uh joke anyway but you know like like no I get I get the first you know yeah Dr Alexa and it was just yeah it was just uh yeah so it was um that was a great moment we were just like what are some punch lines that everyone knows let's throw on Sir at the end to get to the other side sir we get to the other side sir exactly the yeah exactly that's probably on the list um and so that was just like we were just shooting them I think I I'm sure it was Bob Borden transcribing it and setting it to Rodney and and then running down to uh to the to the Chiron booth and and having the person you know so was it was this Mad Dash just to add that spontaneity and and I I remember I remember playing incredibly well because it's it's both a joke punchline and you get the sir it's like two jokes in one and the Callback yeah the Callback too and when it shows the show is yeah exactly and that's when those moments were not as as frequent probably as they as they were in late night on the earlier show and um and they were you know you were working without a nap sometimes they would work sometimes they wouldn't but um it was it was always a great it was always a delight and yeah you boy you felt like you were part of the part of a team when that thing happened um did you get into the fun facts book was that your time or is fun facts book after your time I was not a part of fun facts that was after that okay okay yeah those moments to described there are were my as a viewer my very favorite moments anytime that any time that I had to ask myself okay was that planned or not because now doing this show it seems like like it was like a coin flip many times they were planned did not look planned whatsoever looked spontaneous which is the magic of being able to write something that isn't spontaneous but make it look spontaneous is just what a what a talent that is but then there was The X Factor of something where it no wasn't planned but we either pivoted or reacted or did whatever we just went with it yeah yeah and it and it seemed like just those are uh that was one of the moments I think that's a mood of the show that folks loved so much is you don't necessarily know what's going to happen and um and it felt that way no matter if the entire show was on Rails or not uh when it when the show was its best that was one of the the attributes of it absolutely and that feeling because which is which is like being with a great group of friends you know it's like it's like the if if in minute 40 you're calling back to something that happened in minute five yeah it's just like a group of great people hanging out having a couple drinks together you know you're like oh it this this joke came back around and one last time and you're laughing again at this thing those are yeah those are always the best moments when when it feels like it's just one uh one show and you're you're part of this special group that gets to laugh at this because you were you remember what it's referring to I it was always great when we could capture that feeling yeah um in the thumbnail for this episode and what we'll do is we'll put the picture up in the in the Facebook group hey everybody we've got a Facebook group you can join the Letterman podcast Facebook group if you want to see some of these little extras um the picture of you it's it's right near the end of your run in your office oh yeah the back corner um there is a gigantic vat I think this is the only time I've maybe used the word VAT on this uh show a vat of barbasol with gigantic Combs and and and and and uh Barber uh uh uh apparati inside of that vat um is this a bit that hit the air is this absolutely I'm almost certain it hit the air it was uh it was my first October uh at Letterman and it was uh Halloween costumes okay great yeah yeah it was yeah the the the the old the the jar of old barbicide at the at the barbershop and so I I know I I remember seeing a kid wearing it so I know it at least made it into run through um and it was it was yeah it was just so ridiculous I would have came around and I did try it I remember I almost destroyed it because that uh that Halloween I didn't have a costume I thought oh I'll just wear the barbicide costume and of course I was like I I was about eight times too big for for an almost just wrecked the whole thing but um no that was that was uh that was uh that was uh one of the yeah that was probably the first the only Halloween costume I got on that first air that first uh year I was there so I got to work with my buddy Sue hum oh my gosh amazing isn't she great incredible yeah yeah and I mean everyone there like the I can only imagine yeah because we're the writers so we're we're where it starts but there are so many other steps and and so many things that so many other people that need to contribute before it gets on the air and I can only imagine what it's like to be someone like suhum where you suddenly get this call at at 3 30.

okay we need uh you know uh whatever we need a Michelin Man costume in two hours and uh uh it's it's it's there's nothing more important than this it must be it must have been so nerve-wracking and that's true for set design and and and uh all sorts of other uh you know things that things that happen yeah uh the the pace and this is again why why I think you know shows like maybe not this particular shows shows like this are so important is is is is is is taking these moments the way that uh the analogy that I've used um you know frequently is that you're mining for gold every day and it's a frantic day you get the gold and then your goal is to drop the gold and and it not get you know YouTube rose up you know near the end of the run but many times these things that we're talking about have never been seen again and and it's gold like like literal gold it's so great and that no we just cast it aside never to be seen again and it's so great that you and I have grown up in a time where these things that were forgotten as long as the tapes weren't weren't erased uh you know we can go back and revisit them and and it triggers all sorts of nostalgia and never mind the entertainment value of it um very very special people to do that no absolutely and it did especially because it did feel for a while like okay yeah you're you're you do something oh that played great or it played okay or it didn't play at all and it doesn't oh now it's gone and now it's now it's going to be forgotten within a couple days no one will talk about it there's no YouTube yet um and uh no it is wonderful and here that you're you're you're bringing you're bringing it back yourself you're you're keeping that alive and if you know otherwise I'm not talking about these things so so you all seem to want to like it's funny like people are like how are you getting the guests that you're getting and I swear to God Chris it's just like just like with you and I hey man you want to talk about Letterman for a while and and the enthusiasm is like other than a few people who are very very uh shy about coming on camera and things like that they've got some you know they but at the same time there's a few of those where I've had these amazing conversations with on the phone and one they just won't come on camera and do it um everybody seems to want to talk about it especially now that you're not in the in the mine anymore do you still dream about it though do you still get the dreams of the I think yes I I do um I mean I tie them in with you know it's it's like high school stress streams you know it's like uh it it it's like the the test that you forgot about um every once in a while they'll be like I feel like for a while my dream was I'm going back to work there again and it's day one again and I've gotta and things are different now and I've gotta and I have to sit down and think about funny bits for tonight's show and that sort of I wonder like behind it it might just be like can I still do that is my mind Nimble enough after you know a quarter Century to go back and and and do this on a day-to-day basis you know I'm I've done a a good job in my own head at least of transitioning from that sort of day-to-day every day you have to think of something amazing too okay it's a it's it's episodes and and this week we have to do a show you know as opposed to tonight and so I think part of probably part of what's going on in my psychees do do can I still can I still perform every single morning like that like just get up and think of something funny um but yeah I I definitely had a few of those dreams where I was like yeah okay I'm back it's day one again 10 minutes till the top ten and we need three more go oh you know yeah um and and I appreciate you giving of your time here and whatnot and I want to have you I want to have you back on especially I I we we did it with uh Jeff Martin Jerry Mulligan we actually had them on at the same time and those shows are yeah and I'm I'm gonna get one with the two Steves young and O'Donnell and and whatnot um I want to get you back with maybe with some other writers I want to get you back on yourself just to talk about more memories now that we've built the Rapport um but let's talk about you know kind of any other uh highlights that you have but then moving to the end and what you moved into afterwards I think it's worth noting some of the other cool things that you've had a chance to work on throughout your career and what what Letterman was that uh you know that that that that preparation zone for you to then jump out of that plane and and and fly some other places um so so so yeah how did how did it kind of uh end um did you get another offer somewhere else and it was just time it just felt like it was time or or yeah and then what happened more than anything else I felt like it was time yeah yeah I I'd been there and and that's um you know I think some people find the that late night and that comedy variety world to be like okay this is it this is this is what I've always wanted and this is great and that's that's awesome I think I felt like I just yeah a little bit a little bit used up and I think I think uh you know like I was sort of referring to before I I I wanted to I was enjoying the remotes and the the three and four minute pieces more than anything else and it really sort of got me thinking about like oh what about what about half hour what about screenplays which I really got into but but let's move on to telling stories hopefully being just as funny and and and irreverent as um as on the show but but maybe let's tell it let's tell some stories and so yeah I moved out to um uh moved out here to LA and uh did the usual thing of working on a bunch of uh uh half-hour shows and and the you know the first few didn't click and then uh my friends Carter and Craig called me up and said hey we're uh we think we're gonna get a green light on this uh this show about a group of friends in New York City and uh we'd love for you to write on it and I said oh my God that would be that would be a dream because I know that they're the you know most funniest most brilliant and also most good-natured people I know and so I I hopped on to How I Met Your Mother and um worked with them on that for for the entire nine uh Nine Season run um and then since then I've uh you know I've run some shows I've worked on some shows uh I did a couple years running uh the show called Acapulco for Apple TV and then coming back full circle uh just recently finished uh the first season of uh first 10 episodes of the new Fraser which I'm excited for folks to see in October um How I Met Your Mother Let's go back to that for a second yeah and and um there must have been for you in particular um a lot of McGee's memories that ended up in that show and uh my my goal is I'm hoping that when you know Rupert has his retirement thing um and we'll we'll talk about that off air when it's gonna happen whatnot but when that happens I want to go back and if possible I want to hang out with a bunch of you guys at McGee's um because I mean I can only imagine yeah the conference room table would have been a lot of fun no question the during the crisis moments no question but boy I mean I've hung with with with uh comedians in green rooms before the hang at McGee's after must have just been yeah iconic in your in your in your uh from from a friend's perspective uh what what a place that and you guys translated it really well and How I Met Your Mother oh they yeah they I mean it was so it it felt like I mean that felt like the bar it was amazing just the wood and the colors that they that they used um yeah I mean the the only caveat is that sometimes we were just so exhausted after that two episode run yeah that that might not have gotten as crazy as as uh or I might have left before it got too crazy I don't know but um but it was it was definitely that great release at the end of the night and everyone were there Jerry Foley there and and Pat farmer and you know I knew whoever's there is just hanging out and and and we're we're you know rightly so letting off some steam after another uh another week of shows um yeah I love how um you know carton Craig did such an amazing job the one capturing that um that feel and just that time in general where you know you're single you're in New York you're you're dating it's you you're this the the narrator telling the craziest stories that he can think of and some of them you know some of them coming from our time there and some of them uh you know were each pulling our different uh our different stories from different places uh yeah it was uh that you know that one two of Letterman and and then How I Met Your Mother was you know I'll be all right if that never gets matched it was it was pretty incredible the thing I love about that show is is like you said um it was in an environment of you know the office and Arrested Development and all these other you know amazing shows in their own right but again breaking from tradition and and and your show um you know had that you know you know I think about Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld and how every these little everyday moments became entire episodes and whatnot um you guys did such a clever job of keeping the original sitcom um you know formula relevant by by adding those little elements with the narrator with and and drawing from these moments that you had it was it was uh you know a really really special show in a time where a lot of those types of shows were going away yeah and you know and this is all credit to Carter and Craig because it's it's their show but I but I was so but but I was happy to find a show and be on a show where it's like oh I get this and this is this is exactly my sensibility too and you're right I think there's a there's a commonality with Letterman where it's like let's play with the form okay we know we know we know what we're supposed to do and we're not gonna We're not gonna we're not here to you know we're not anarchists We're Not Gonna We're not gonna throw everything away no what can we do to play what let's bend it let's just bend it yeah let's let's let's let's make it fresh by just like playing with some things on the sides and I feel like that's what you know uh Dave was had been doing ever since late night and that's um that's what Carter and Craig did and what I got to be a part of uh uh doing uh with How I Met Your Mother was okay let's take that for let's take that sitcom let's add this narrator oh and now the narrator can sort of play around oh now we're not going to talk about uh smoking pot we're going to say I was eating sandwiches uh now I'm gonna completely forget what this bee story was about and so the actors are just going to stand around on stage while we you know like like again we're still telling we're still being a half hour show but we're having fun with the conventions and I so much of that was what Dave was about for spanning spanning both of his shows was let's have fun let's have fun with this um let's not just do the thing that we that people are expecting um let's find the fresh uh form fresh way to poke fun at The Forum too uh could not agree more um I've only got a couple more things that I've got uh that I wanted to ask you on I know what I'm going to go out on but uh before that let's talk about the writer strike a little bit because at the end of the day um you know we've been we've been talking I've been talking about it as much as I possibly can I support you guys in every single way that I possibly can which is the only thing I can do is talk about it um did you were you uh a part of oh you might have just missed the you didn't you didn't have a writer strike when you're at Letterman did you you had one at How I Met Your Mother no we had one How I Met Your Mother yeah um so this is your second writer major writer strike since you've kind of gotten into the business exactly yeah and and this feels you know I think the conventional wisdom is is that that that strike the the one before this one you know we we gained some ground but but we lost some ground too and and we didn't quite uh you know hope this strike is is it feels bigger and more important um in a way and it does feel very existential and that's that's both the writers and the and the actors and uh because there are a lot of things coming to a head and you know I I can obviously you know what side I'm on uh so you know hey I'm right with you this show is on that same side so let's just great awesome let's just use that side and other people can talk about other sides yeah this is this is important absolutely yeah there and you know I'm fine this isn't about the the you know most of the issues don't impact me directly and I'm grateful for that but but it is the way I um was able to rise through the ranks the way I was able to learn how to how to write a show how to put together a show how to edit how to produce uh that it allowed me to then go on to run other shows and and teach other people how to do it the whole system is broken down now there's no um people can't make a living um as a low or even mid-level writer these days because of the you know it's eight episodes and then you wait a year and a half and then you have another eight episodes and and people aren't interested in hiring you because you're in first position to the first show you know it's it's it's getting complicated and Byzantine um and then also people because of that also people don't have the experience on set that they used to have they don't have um you know they don't get to be in the edit room because the the writers rooms have been isolated and from uh from the sets um there are you know the The Writers Guild contracts were established with the idea that there are seasons and you know most episode most shows will be 13 episodes or 22 Episodes or something and unfortunately writers are being held to contracts to that's to a system where that's the assumption but but the reality is that people are getting paid for far fewer episodes and being made to work much much longer um so you know their per episode fee is the same but they're only writing half the episodes in the same amount of time and so they're getting paid half um it's a it's a broken system and you know the the small amount of soap boxing I'll do is that I do feel like this is uh an issue in a lot of other Industries not just the writer's Guild not just the Screen Actors Guild but there is a growing concentration at the very top the income disparity is problematic and um I think some of these issues that that we as a guild are trying to address now are issues that are um you know I I hope that I hope get addressed in in lots of other Industries not just ours because I do feel like we're we're leaving people behind and that's um uh uh that's hurting our country overall uh and then the last thing I'll say is that AI of course is a whole other giant issue um and um obviously that needs to be addressed too the you know they're the you just need to look at the Studio's proposals oh we'll pay an actor for a day and then we own your likeness and right uh in perpetuity that sound fair I don't think so I don't think it sounds fair so uh there's a we're at a crisis moment with that too where it does feel like the studios think that they can just push their way through and get everything that they want and uh uh as writer as writers we were so grateful that the that the Actors Guild also recognized that this is a this is a crisis moment and um that's why we're you know proud to be picketing uh with them every every day every week you've done any uh done any fun ones lately uh no we did we had a Harry Met Your Mother one a few weeks ago which was great uh see some of the old folks uh the writers and actors and and Pam Fryman the director came out um uh I haven't seen uh haven't done any of the costume ones it's not quite my style but uh but it's been great to see a lot of old uh friends as we uh as we go out there and uh make sure we're shown and heard um I I really appreciate you you know you know pouring out um you know some of these some of these things right now uh because I I think most people just don't realize what you're talking about some of the things that are that are that are real issues and and you shouldn't have to be some sort of a you know you shouldn't have to be self-financed to be able to be a creative and and unfortunately that's what's happening now people who are who are creatives they want to be creative they want to be a have a career put food on the table being a creative it is getting so difficult to do that and you talk about this disparity that's happening you know it shouldn't be just that wealthy people can afford can can can do this because the people who aren't are usually the ones with the better stories you know they're the ones that and so everybody should be able to do this whether it be music whether it be writing whether it be acting all of this stuff and be able to do it in a way that they can make a living at it and and uh absolutely yeah and thank you for for being a voice uh I mean the more the more people talking about this and and the more people sort of uh uh you know making clear making the issues clear the the better and that's one of the big differences between now and uh even last strike social media was not what it is today and the fact that we can uh through podcasts like yours and not to mention all the other uh channels and sites and and social media the that we can make sure that the studios aren't um or defining the terms aren't aren't uh you know aren't aren't the ones sort of shaping the story like they like they were able to do uh in times past so thank you for that I'm a big personal development guy and and um not too long ago I guess about a year and a half ago I read a book called rework and it's about uh the book itself was a side effect of this company that went through a bunch of growing pains and and very successful software company and the book was a side effect of of of just basically noting down this journey that the company had taken and and one of the things that uh one of the founders of this company uh and wrote In This Book put out there was part of the way the reason that our system was broken like the studios themselves okay but if they're owned by a corporate entity where that studio is just literally a line on a ledger yeah and and and and and you take out the you know the human aspect of of what everything is that's where the problem happens even though some of the the studio heads you know they want everybody to be in a good spot it's you know we saw it happen in our life when when uh you know all of these broadcast companies were purchased by these major corporations is it going to change the Nightly News well we've seen what happened there is it going to change entertainment and and we're seeing that happen right now and the premise in this book the guy was talking about how you know what if we're profitable that's great and if we're continuing to be profitable and and that's that's great like more like and and there and well profitable you know like like yeah we're well in the black um it's the the Brokenness of business is the drive to be more profitable every quarter yes versus being able to accept you know obviously inflation and things like that but accept a status quo of we're we're paying our people well we are putting more and more and more money into the coffers to reinvest into the company to whatever to keep to pay back the shareholders whatever that is the broken part is the drive to make it more profitable every single quarter and that's where things start to break down and the human part starts to go away uh I agree 100 and I'll just go even further like that that drive for that that that it's the next profit uh report that's the most important because that's when P that's when you get people sort of writing off giant projects or taking taking shows off the air because oh look we can write this off oh we're we're totally shooting ourselves in the foot for a time immemorial but that's okay the next quarter's profit will will the next quarter will show a big profit and so short-sightedness killing the goose that lays the golden eggs over and over again that is part of this crisis which is you're getting people who only care about the next uh quarter the next six months the next year and they're not investing in the future they don't and they don't love the product you know that's the other thing is that yeah there's like content we can generate content by this and this is what about people who love the product you know and that's that's part of the whole problem with the industry is is you don't have people at the top who are and you do you'd have people in the middle you have people below the top who are just as passionate it's not like everyone is the on the studio side is bad no but but there are there are the people really making decisions are like you're saying making a decision from a ledger point of view yeah which uh only works up to a point and is disastrous uh beyond that because you you cut Corners you you kill long-term things you you look for the cheap answer and pretty soon uh you don't have a great product anymore if if you're calling it a product yeah well that even yeah it's content oh it's true and this is where we go back to our boy Dave because I mean you know you want to talk about whether he was a prophet or whether he just saw the absurdity of it you know mid 80s Dave is doing who's he making fun of more than anybody GE for buying NBC and and literally prophetically almost uh you know talking about the problem of of what can happen and now we've seen it you know 20 something 30 something years later evolved into where we're at right now yeah and you come to a head yeah and you hear about this happening in completely different Industries where you know the the VC firm or the the whatever firm comes in and and completely guts gut something shows a giant profit and then leaves destruction in their way unfortunately that's happening in in this industry now too exactly uh it's Gordon Gekko you know Gordon gekko's Army um yeah what's happening out there now uh I'm so glad that we're talking about this um you know we want the creatives to be able to have their fair share and and I'm glad too like I'm glad you brought it up um I I hung out at Steve Young's apartment in in June and and I was talking to him about this stuff and we were going back and forth and Stephanie goes I really hope that the actor at that time it was I hope the directors and the actors uh join in directors made their deal uh but the fact that the actors are doing it now you guys really really can put a halt you know to production in in so many ways and and and I'm glad because there are so many stories that need to be told um and and realities TV in reality entertainment is only going to go so far because the pendulum will swing back to the people wanting these stories the people are going to want Frasier season two they're gonna what you know Season Two they're gonna want that yeah um and and we're in such a nostalgic place right now there's so much opportunity for projects like that for a Next Generation to take over a franchise a previous one and to I just love where we're at when it comes to entertainment right now it's not that everything's being rebooted it's that they're kind of being rebooted because they're being continued on and and it's such a it's such a good time to be in entertainment for that uh because there's so much stuff in the past that's been built that we can just continue to build upon yeah let's find this next the next chapter of these things yeah so uh I'm excited too for sure I uh God I appreciate your time so much on this here um I don't know if you've kept up with Dave and and and and his projects on my next guest and some of these other things uh one of the questions that I love to ask uh people who have a unique perspective within pants's production is do you are there a couple people that you would love to see Dave Dave's obviously doing the long form thing now is there anybody that you would be curious to see Dave have an hour conversation with oh my gosh I I mean the the best people uh I'm this is clearly a stall I'm totally stalling right now the the best people are the ones that where he's fascinated you know like curiosity is the is is the key and I I always loved those one there were there were guests like that where you could just tell he was into it but but uh but the like the the small you know the the person who discovered this new whatever you know whenever we had someone like that on on the show because Dave read something and thought oh that's really interesting let me have this person on those were always the best interviews to me because you could just see it was just someone who's really riveted just digging in deep into something he loved and and cared about in this in this in this way so so I would almost I would almost say like it doesn't even need to be a big name person but I would I would love I would love for whatever whatever the latest um thing like that that he read whether it's like the the the grandmother and so-and-so or the or the the scientists who who discovered this this this new hagfish you know just just something like that where where if D if he's interested then we'll be interested because there's nothing better than uh than when you see him engage like that could not agree more um part of the thing that you know people talk about the the midwestern charm of Dave it's not just the Midwest it's the Every Man how he is This brilliant uh humorist and broadcaster and all that stuff but then he can easily turn on the Curiosity switch of the every man and ask the question that might be the obvious question but do it in a way where you get a different answer and it educates people it talks about yeah I could not agree more yeah um that's a great answer I I love that so much um yeah you're a friend of the show now just so you know you're a friend of our of the Letterman podcast just so you're aware um we're gonna finish off with a commercial uh because I imagine that you can contribute to this as well and we're also going to assemble some of these moments and send them to him because um you know you talk about the passage of time and and things move on well we have one sponsor and one sponsor only at the Lettermen podcast and that is Rupert G in the hello Deli um Rupert is selling the deli you can still right now go to Hello deli.com get yourself The Late Show shirt you can get yourself a mug hat all that stuff but also get yourself a Rupert t-shirt because soon he's going to be out of the sandwich and soup business um he's selling the deli right now 30 plus years what a run um I'm certain that you would have had a super sandwich a time or two at that Deli oh yeah I never had my own but I but I enjoyed a lot of Craigs I enjoyed the Carter and Craig's quite a bit and yeah it is an institution it is a legend and and what a what an amazing tie to to Letterman and to The Late Show so yeah absolutely what a great opportunity to uh one last time he's such a great guy um you know yeah I just I love Rupert so much and we're just it's really really nice to have people on here to throw you know nice words to him and that kind of stuff too because um he was so important to the pants family like he was so important to that family oh yeah and uh and so good at it and so generous with uh whenever we needed something crazy last minute or suddenly we the act one fell apart so we're gonna go talk to talk to talk to Rupert or Dave doesn't want the Survivor but put it out of Survivor in his stage anymore so we're gonna we're gonna move him over to the Hello Dolly uh Rupert was always so game and I think I think Dave recognized the the the genuine uh spirit with which he always always did everything and that's why he uh uh loved doing with things with him all the time so I I wish Rupert all the best in his uh new Venture absolutely yeah speaking of which I'm so excited for Frasier I I'm so excited that uh that you you're still doing what you're doing and um you've got such a fresh uh uh you know energetic mind about it here I mean your energy is just really really um beautiful Chris I just appreciate your time and again I'll I'll say this to you I get sappy uh sometimes I do I don't usually do it on the air because most of you guys and gals are really self-deprecating and you get uncomfortable with compliments but I will say I haven't said it on the show very I just on behalf of all of the enthusiasts of David Letterman thank you for contributing to something that we are so is so precious to us and um you know you were a part of that you contributed to it thank you very very much and that's to you and that's to everybody who uh is on has been a guest on the show and will be a guest on the show that worked on the production thank you so much for being a part of something that we like so much I I will only take the like 10 000 of the credit that I deserve for that but I but I'll take that and say you're welcome for that part and and it was obviously as as I said one of the the great honors of my life and and and most uh one of the biggest life-changing moments to to get to work on that show so I'm I'm I am at least as grateful as uh for having gotten to work there as as you are anyone is for the fact that I did so thank you so much Mike and thank you for all man absolutely um I'll take us out here and then we'll say our goodbye privately um uh that's been another episode this is why we do the show is for conversations just like this so much fun um you know to be present for a while thinking about these amazing moments that we all uh adored so so much um this has been another episode of The Lettermen podcast with Mike Chisholm coincidentally I am Mike Chisholm thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants