Will Lee Returns to Talk About Love Rocks, Martin Short, Sobriety and Much More!

yeah I'm Paul schaer I'm will Lee and you are watching the Letterman podcast welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum and uh oh will Lee is back this is so cool I love the fact that some of these folks uh that we've connected with are we're we're having them back we're returning guests and and it's it's a different it's a different vibe not that I don't prepare for the when it's when they come back the second time but I prepare in a different way um and and uh we do some lot of good conversation here uh we talk about Fab fo a little bit um and and and the fact that Jimmy Vino is a member of of of will Le's uh Beatles band that has been going for like almost three decades it's crazy how long they've been doing that J Vino of course part of of con O'Brian's band we talk about love rocks um the uh the benefit that will um and many many many many other people both uh in the in the in the Letterman universe and in the music universe that he's a part of be you know raise money to feed people in New York and they raised $4 million with Love Rocks we talk about that we talk about some other Letterman moments we talk about um some of the things that will has not been credited for and boy is it is it hard to ever ask him because he has been a part of he was a studio musician for so long and he has played like he's the guy who plays on a lot of very very famous pieces of mus music out there uncredited and I I tried to get out of them as many as I could that uh songs that he played on and then we talk we get into um he's had a journey when it comes to substances in the past and we didn't talk about that the first time he was on the show um but but we we spent a little bit of time talking about that today and it's uh it's powerful it's really cool um I think if if you watched him the first time if you've ever met will Lee um and and you realize the disposition he has and and the level of freshness that he has towards this world the perspective the gratefulness that he has uh the energy that he has um I think that we we have found the secret sauce to it and we talk about that in this episode uh I just love doing this show thank you so much for all of the support uh that we that we've received so far here at the Letterman podcast uh please join the Facebook group if you like I will try and find other ways for us to build the community right now we're building the community there and um like share subscribe all that crap in the meantime please please enjoy uh this Incarnation this return the return of without further Ado the return of legendary world's most dangerous band and CBS Orchestra bass player will Lee oh he's got his he's got his tasty beverage more on beverages in a moment um it it's really really really good to see you my friend how you doing I miss you it's good to see you my dear dear dear friend what's up right back right back at you um I got to tell you uh after the last time you were on the show um righteous Anger from people came out at me uh from a very small minority but very vocal about how we talked about Fab fo we talked about all these things we talk but we didn't talk about how you and Jimmy favino are connected and Jimmy the idea we never made the connection that two of the uh the great late night musicians are in a band together and we never and and I was uh I was chastised for mentioning that does that sound like a CO a coincidence of some kind because there there's even more of a coincidence than than in that previous statement yeah okay well you know Jimmy and well of course you know the New York Studio scene and the playing you know musician scene it's kind of a it's a small world tight-knit little community and U just as luck would have it you know um Jimmy lived in my building we were both lived in this highrise in the West Village there and there are very few of those but we just happened to be in there you know other people that lived there were BB Buell yeah I don't know if you know who that is she was uh the mother of Liv Tyler wow uh anyway um yeah je Jeff Ross the great guy the great comedian who uh you know who you know his genius comedian who does all the great roasts the roasts of the world yes Fri Club comedy whatever yeah and uh so we're all we all friends everybody in that because we keep banging into each other you know and and Jimmy when when when the idea came to me to to do a Fab fo yeah um it probably would never have happened had I not had the ability to Corner Jimmy Vino in elevator rides after our our our perspective shows that we had just finished taping yeah Letterman for me and con for him right so uh you know it happened enough times that at some point he realized I was serious because his first thought was no no way why would I want to do a Beatles span with anybody and then it occurred it occurred to him that I was really really into it and he finally broke down I finally I finally broke him down after about four or five elevator rides with the same Beatles or die anyway well hey one of the things that I uh appreciate about our Dynamic is is is that sometimes when something happens uh you and I will just jump on a call or jump on text we we just to react to things and one of the things that it was just a genuine pleasure this year to be able to get your point of view on was a new Beatle song a new Beatles song comes out and literally within two or three hours of it you and I are going back and forth and then you um and then then we ended up doing a a FaceTime call where you showed me the Stu where you are right now the ma in in fact the the place that you are and all the beautiful dead people all over the how crazy is it oh go ahead yeah go ahead well no I mean what was the uh you know what was the Revelation just the idea that I can talk to you because you are you go so deep into the uh into the the musicality of The Beatles with what you do with Fab fo you've guys have played every you know you've played every single corner of the Anthology including you know bside stuff that hasn't been released all that kind of stuff um you know so you know this stuff more than you know maybe anybody on the planet as you know the way that you guys have dove into it and here we are in it was at the time 2023 um a new Beatle song comes out and I was super curious as to your take on it um you know and then you go back to Free as a bird when when when that was done and isn't it crazy that even today a new Beatles song can come out and and with the help of Technology um can go you know and and and and and be one of those impactful pieces of art still all these years later and uh you you you loved that song didn't you um you know the new one yeah I I liked it you liked it I mean to me it wasn't really a beetle song if you know what I mean because you know because when those guys uh collaborated there was a lot of push and pull back and forth you know uh you know uh gentle persuasive editing for the other guy's ideas you know and that didn't happen on this song and it seems like you could take any one of John Lenin's demos and there are many many left to play with really and call it a beetle song if you want to but really it's uh somebody else's idea besides John's of what John's song should sound like you know so in a way I don't know how if it really feels beatly to me or not you know it feels produced yes for sure and and that doesn't really uh you know that doesn't really spell Beetle to me necessarily the fact that you can do all that producing and stuff you know and I think the producing part of it is it was was designed to maybe save it and try to turn it into a record because really it was just him at an out ofune piano yep just sketching out something you know and it's great that that he did record that many things and there's a lot of bootlegg stuff out there that you can hear John's you know sort of basement tapes on you know um when I first start it go ahead no I was just saying that's just one of the many you know they chose that one I guess I'm not even sure why but anyway well I think it's because it was the one that they tried to do when they um when the Anthology came out with free as a bird that was the TR that was the one that they had tried to do that's why there were parts that's why there were some George yeah okay now I now I remember now yeah that's right yeah yeah so so all they did all collaborate but I I love how you the point of view like watching get back um yeah get back watching the push pull that you talk about where where where you know they really are wrestling you know to the point where you know George leaves and comes back and and they are they're wrestling they're putting everything into it they're standing up for the things that they they kind of believe in um you know whether it's the musicality or or other um and and yes you're right that that that's a that that that translates to the music doesn't it yeah and it was also you know they were so under the gun TimeWise for whatever reason yeah you know the Clock Was ticking while all that all those fast decisions were being made but they were used to um you know working it out in sort of like you know they didn't want to D they didn't want to drag it out they wanted to get to it so they had this great uh they had developed this great method of or methodology of of uh you know I kind of already know what you're going to say so I'll skip that that my my first sentence that I was about to say and and jump to the to the one that you're going to answer to yeah that you know with a creative uh you know solution for an answer so yeah those guys had you know they were like a school of fish in a way they were just like you know one guy would turn and the whole the whole school would move you know kind of in Fab fo is there any of that when you're coming up with how you're going to present a song and you're no we fought like we fought like maniacs no it's this way no it's no it was you know the fun part was was spelunking getting inside like you know because we didn't have like the YouTube uh isolated tracks and stuff that you can find now so we did all these weird things like we we uh we we found out about a thing called ooping does that sound familiar no what's ooping okay ooping is not oh I just made a mistake ooping is out oface stereo so you would jam your headphone jack into your your music Source if it was a Walkman or whatever it was at the time and you would you would you would Jack it over to the side and we destroyed many many play back units doing this and when you did that you would hear everything that was that was mixed like right up in the center as opposed to the left tracker right you'd have to start with a stereo track yeah yeah but then when you did that thing you pulled it out slightly and kind of and cocked it over to the side you would hear an isolated everything in the middle of the mix you know straight up and down in the middle at 12 o'clock yeah right and that way we we we got a chance to to discover a lot more details than you would if you just heard the left track or the right track you know side of the stereo image so we did every trick we could we could manage in fact uh we thought we had figured out the first song that we learned was a song from uh from uh Abby RH called uh because yeah beautiful vocal piece that John wrote right because the world is round it turns me off right all that stuff yeah so we in our best uh with our best knowledge and ears tried to voice it a certain way because we had five guys so we tried to make it so like one goty have the low part and the blah blah blah and the thing and then you when you did that you you thought you heard certain movement within those five things right something moving around here or there but what ended up happening was there was a lot of skipping over another vocal to get to you know at least we thought there was and then we ended up revoicing it when we when we were able to hear it more uh isolated later on in our life yeah and then we actually voiced it a third time when another guy came in and said oh no you guys are doing it wrong and and we trusted him so we revoiced it yet again so you know we kept like trying to get it right and you know kept tweaking away at it and whacking away at it till we you know starts to sound a little bit more and more like authentic yeah um how long you been doing Fabo now uh we started in 199 98 so we're like 26 years in wow and okay is the camp there's a band camp coming up is that a is that all of you is that just you is that uh that's all of us yeah oh that's fantastic that you do the band camp thing with Fab it's called Magical Mystery Camp takes place up in the Poconos yeah place in Indian Hills New York at a place called Full Moon Resort and it's really really fun and I we did it for the first time last year I thought oh man first of all deer ticks I don't want to poison ivy oh you know all the Hello ma hello M all those things that can happen at a at Camp I fear the most you know I'm never gonna get any sleep and it turned out to be the greatest it was it's so much fun yeah food is great and the lodging is great and the people are hanging we're all hanging with our audience and our people and people that want to learn about Beetle stuff and it's super fun and we get to play do a couple of concerts during during that 4 day thing and it's all levels of musicianship everybody's welcome kind of a thing right oh yeah yeah yeah we have like sing along kind of stuff and all that stuff it's really fun oh that's incredible um so 20 com 26 years you're coming right oh my god well you and Candy the moment the moment the moment candy and I get in a position uh that that it can happen we are gonna come to all sorts of stuff that that you do uh I want to talk about love rocks because boy was this year's incarnation they they go up every they grow every year right they get you can't I don't know how you top yourself uh each year but boy this one here the stream version of it uh you got a chance to to to to Really really feel the fomo if you watch the stream version of it because being in that room oh my gosh it must have been absolutely amazing what a what a fantastic uh thing that you and your crew are doing man yeah thanks it's a it's a great challenge I work really hard to get there and um you know every year is the best year so far and this was the eighth time the eighth year we've done it in a row and let's go through some of the uh some of the guests that were there this year you tell me because I can't remember any ever okay well let's done I can't remember okay Luke Luke Spiller yep saying Bohemian rap city that was like to me that was the the peanuckle of the whole thing because because I worked on that song harder than any other song I Really put everything to you know getting all those parts for for all the musicians yep um we had Nile Rogers and and his singers from Chic of course and that was just you know I mean and of course we had uh Don Felder doing you know Hotel California and Life in the Fast Lane that was Unreal for us you know and the great Hosier who now you know when he first came to Love Rocks uh about I don't know five or six six years ago he was kind of a new artist right and um you you could tell I mean he was just super badass and a great a great talent and now he's selling out two nights at the Garden kind of thing you know so we feel lucky to get him and he feels like part of the the family so I you know I'm confident that he would come back because he you know all these artists have a great time doing this yep you know we we make a bed for them because I work for four months to to get the band In Shape to get the all the Parts in shape so that when they walk in It Feels Like Home you know it doesn't feel like oh my God this is like I don't know I'm going to miss the words because I'm so distracted by the way the band sounds it's nothing like that so you know it's just ends up being really fun and and the cause is so great it's it's it it it benefits uh a an organization called God's love we deliver here in in the New York area where they just feed just thousands of people every day with all these volunteers going around giving customed meals to people who are too sick to leave their their their homes you know so and I think because of the purity of why we're doing it it it just everybody just drops any trips they're GNA they're going to bring in into a room not that they would but you know some people are notorious and you know you you kind of walk in you know you kind of expect to have your to have to have your guard up when they show up and you don't because they just drop all their garbage at the door when they walk in if they had any garbage to begin with we all have some speaking for myself of course of course of course and and when you find something where you actually see something being accomplished you know there's a lot of Charities that are out there where the goals are um I don't know for lack of a better term ambiguous uh you know because you don't necessarily see the the the the the the the work that's being done like like again you go back to Dave and the programs that Dave has always supported like the world food program you can see the results of what they're doing directly Habitat for Humanity you know they gave away the the Marquee lately uh you know like like you actually being built you know what it is and this organization like you said you said it yourself you see thousands of people being fed who would not have been fed or fed you know the the the same way um because of this organization and people can they rally around that yeah yeah I think it's it's it's a there's a feeling in the room when you walk in absolutely uh when I watched um the version of the arrangement of Let's Go Crazy that you guys did you kind of you kind of slowed it down a little bit oh boy did I just was Josh Stone was there for that one and it was well it was trombone Shorty's Arrangement their F yeah yeah so you know shorty is just I can't say enough great things about that guy he's just got everything he's got the greatest talent and the greatest attitude and he's just really fun to be to be making music with and that was a Rangers with trombone in the title that's interesting how there's a couple of couple of good ones that are out there hey man can I call you trombone Mike sure absolutely still searching for seventh position um yeah uh no it was incredible and Conan how about that Conan oh my God what an opener right what a show he comes out and just you know I listen back to it and I can't believe how beautifully he's singing that song he's he's doing caught in a trap you know Elvis and I can and it's just like nailing every note and and you know he's supposed to be a comedian but he's such a music guy you know under under the hood that when he brings that out it's just like astonishing absolutely he's a flat out old school variety player I mean he's got so many so many tricks up the sleeve um and and uh yeah just just such an amazing event do you know how much how much was raised from it oh go ahead you say what you're get that four million bucks and I was gonna say U the four comedians that we had were just out of control great Tracy Morgan was there t you mentioned Marty Short was like the unbelievable he was just wailing he was on fire and of course the great Jim Gaffigan who always makes me laugh laugh again and again and again a lot of the people you're mentioning and you think about this I I I um it it felt in some ways like uh like a like a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame type reunion because the band was that tight and it was that together the show was was was was so good with the collaborations and I think that when you watch some of these award shows um the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame probably being a a chief example of it but the Grammys as well and and and others where the magic to me is these collaborations where you have the strange Alchemy of of of putting uh different musicians together singing something familiar from one or another or a tribute to somebody else and they all put their stamp on things that Alchemy is such a beautiful thing but then you have like the people that you mentioned a lot of them have Letterman ties uh deep Letterman ties you think about a guy like Marty Short or or Gaff like like you know and then Dave Gro there you go you know there are so many of these people that have all these Letterman connections as well and it felt like anybody who was a fan of what you guys did with uh with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or anybody who was a fan of the musicality or the comedy for that matter of Letterman would love love rocks and uh you know going back to to to those sort of Beginnings or roots for me as far as my my schooling about how to do this everything I know about doing the Fabo are doing you know musical directing for a thing like this all came from that guy whose statue is behind behind you there Paul Schaefer you know it all everything I know about any of this I got from him to watch him uh Co a bunch of you know cats into a herd you know he he was the man he is the man for that and that's how I know anything about what I'm doing oh I love the I love the camaraderie that you guys have and the reverence for each other um it's a hey we're gonna go see we're gonna go see vanilla fudge on Sunday together you and Paul are Vanilla Fudge that just seems so right why don't you B really and what year are we in like you know that could be any decade of the past you could be saying yeah Paul and I are gonna go see Vanilla Fudge and and and it you you need more information as to what year that would be can you believe in 2024 you're saying that well I'm a child of the 1900s you see yes indeed um the other thing that I took I took a little bit of hell for for mentioning is we talked about James Brown which is great and it was I mean iconic Letterman moment um you know and everybody seems to be an agreement it it's one of the one of the top moments uh certainly from a musical standpoint but but but even more so and and and and how James Brown has influenced uh you know all over to the cape and all this sort of stuff and so anyways we talk about it you and I have this lovely conversation about it it's it's awesome and then someone points out to me um hey dumbass why didn't you ask Will about how he actually played on get on up to that thing like you're you're in the studio version of that right you're the bass player for that yeah yeah I'm an idiot for not asking you why I mean it's there there was no credits on the record well okay so that's the thing that's really interesting and I would like to talk about that with Studio musicians like it's funny you and I will talk back and forth sometimes and you'll tell me about like a 16 hour session that you just did and and you laid down you know like 11 Tracks or or something like that like it just insane amount of output um that happened to you a lot going through your career like even at late night like you'd go you know four five six hours whatever at late night and then you'd be back in a studio either before or after that usually well there you go yeah in the beginning because because those are the years where like the studio scene was really really you know on fire here in New York City yeah and and it's specifically you have to be you would have had to you would had to have been in in a New York City or or Los Angeles or maybe to certain a certain extent in Nashville or Chicago but mostly those two towns were turning out stuff all day and night you know so so that so that the opportunity to make some music was really nuts over here and it was really easy to do a you know not just like well la is is sprawling right and there's traffic New York all the studios are really close together up mostly in Midtown so you could easily take a session and jump over to the next session without like any gap of time in between so that that way you could fill your book up with like just you know five to eight sessions a day you know if it wasn't for Letterman before Letterman that's what I was doing yep and crazy but and you did it during Letterman too right like especially late night you you you were very busy doing that right I did I did I kept going until this until the thing sort of fizzled out a little bit I just want to show you one thing really quick hang on for one second absolutely we were just talking about a we were just talking about a guy and it's the best of all possible worlds I must say I just happen to have a little Ed grimly over here I've reached out to Marty before and they've politely declined I really really really want to have Marty Short on um he's one of those guys whenever he would come on Letterman he would have um you know you talk about some of these characters who would come on the show meticulous preparation beforehand you know Steve Martin is famous for it Andy calman was famous for it you know a lot of people thought Andy was uh you know spontaneous no it was it was pre-planned uh that that that came off as spontaneous and even Dave was in on it on the stuff absolutely well Dave that's the thing about Dave is that that that very early on you know the host does not like surprises but don't worry he's going to make it look like he's surprised or he will react in a way that just is listen I always bought it you know because I I was like that moment with with Andy Kaufman and Jerry Lawler I just almost you know I almost almost crapped in my pants man it was like you know that that thing in your heart when you see a dis dister happen you know what it felt like to me and it's funny you and I haven't really talked about this so much I've talked about a little bit on the show so I have this I have this eclectic kind of things amount of things that have happened in my life one of the things that I've had is I've had a charity professional wrestling promotion okay uh I'm a financial planner by trade um you know many times you get to a certain level you want to give back to your community most of the time financial planners do like a golf tournament or a walk or something not not I'm I'm I'm a different cat when it comes to that stuff so a buddy and and I decided to kind of take a business model or the model of a of a of a a golf tournament and wrap it around a professional wrestling event and and we did it and everyone laughed at us and and and and then I'm laughing now because it's go it's very funny the event goes on and then we raise $166,000 for the Children's Hospital locally in one night and and and people are like oh well okay and wrestling fans are extremely uh loyal and so immediately my phone starts ringing when's the next show when's the next show so we kind of did a spring show and a fall show every year for about six or seven years and I got into the professional wrestling business per se even though it was a charity Endeavor but I kind of got known in western Canada as a guy who could promote this stuff and and and do well at it and be in the black every time we raised over a quarter million dollars for local charities and it was it was a lot of fun so because of that I got I got invited to a fraternity called cauliflower alley and uh I learned all about how professional wrestling Works through that process so I go to cauliflower alley and the first year that I'm there one of the first people I run into was Jal Lawler and so you know me and you know my knowledge about this stuff right and people are wanting to talk to him about all these things and I'm like Jerry can I please talk to you about Andy calman for a while and and we talked and we we had a really good conversation and then there's another uh manager by the name of Jimmy Hart the mouth of the South he and and and and Jerry and Andy they ran together for months the South and in pro wrestling you have to learn it's like it's like when you're on stage and they're playing let's dance and it's like okay now we got the framework and a whole bunch of you know the the vocals are done now we're just going to have people play they're going to solo and solo and solo and we're going to play free form right that's how the best professional wrestlers are so on the stage that night Jerry and Andy didn't necessarily know what they were gonna do but they just kind of went by feel a little bit and uh one of the things I I want to have Jerry on here but he had a he had a stroke last year and and I feel I feel so bad for him we were just talking about getting him on here and he was going to talk all about it because a bunch of that was just by feel and and it was so funny because he's a wrestling promoter and when Kaufman jumped out of that chair and started swearing at him Lawler inside he's you know sitting there no selling it but he's thinking you idiot this was the most perfect thing in the entire world we were perfect but then you started swearing at now they're not going to be able to air any of this on TV and all he was thinking about was the moment was perfect but he looked at Andy as um uh as somebody that he was he was he was training he had his arm around him and he was trying to to school him in the business and you never swear because that'll get you kicked off TV and that's all he was thinking about when that was happening U but Dave did know there would be some physicality to it even Jerry Mulligan who produced the segment he had no idea what they were going to do because they didn't really know what they were going to do Dave just knew something was going to happen and so it was very interesting listening to Jerry's perspective on that night it well that's interesting because it's all these pros at work and they and with bringing their own approach to this this scenario right yes Andy being like the guy who's really controlling it all right not by only giving away this much information just enough so there can be this this element of genuine surprise from guys who even though Jerry Lawler you know is a is a a wrestler that knows about rehearsing all the moves and blah blah blah yeah but he also is not a comedian so he doesn't know about the you know that part of the you know what what it what's required to get the laugh or to get the you know reaction yeah so the comedians things are smaller smaller things I would imagine more more minute details where the wrestler thing is Big right 100% they call it psychology in the wrestling business they call it they call it crowd psychology you have to know how to take the crowd and bring them up and bring them down and and do over sometimes might be humor some they call it psychology in the wrestling business yeah yeah but it's got to be big enough so that an entire Arena can can grasp the the thing right but you know guys work in clubs they got to hold another another angle on stuff I would imagine you know well and it is you're right because you want the person in the top corner to be able to see what you're doing and if you look at the way that Jerry gets up and he moves over to the front of the desk and then he turns and then he unleashes the slap it's so slow and the that's that's what you're talking about right there is it's very very very slow movements and then a quick fast movement but then back to slow again and uh it's it's it's you know from a wrestling work they call it a worker standpoint and a worker isn't um like about work rate it's about uh it's it's it's a Carney term um working the crowd I'm working them like I'm I'm I'm uh I'm working them over as in I'm trying to fool them right it's they call it as a as as a work um that's what they try and get across and they did it perfectly that night and it was so good that they did put the uh uh you know the little whistles over the all the F bombs that Andy uttering and they put it on you know Jerry Lawler that changed that changed the life of professional wrestling it's a multi multi multi-billion dollar industry and much of that they will point back to how that moment on helped to make pro wrestling mainstream it was one of those moments along the way that yeah it's a really big moment it's a huge moment in in the world of pro wrestling I sort of feel like we're like pen and tell are giving away magic tricks by talking about these inside here's how it's done you see first you get the outline and then um wild but to go back to Marty for a second Marty was one of those guys every time he would come on the show and he would have a song and you come out thanks for remembering and you just love that so much but he would always have something special planned um do you remember was it always the day of when Marty would come on the show and and and and and you guys would learn a song together was he that in sync with you guys that within yeah 45 minutes in afternoon or whatever you have a song together or is that something that you guys would start thinking about uh in advance no we would just get the charts you know when he walked in the room wow that's astounding to me will well the chart you know the think of think of the band as like U you know the way Britney Spears thinks of a band it's the track I mean the DJ track yeah we're the DJ right you remember that quote I love that it's one of my favorite it's one of my favorite uh little stories of all so great in the hallway right yeah yeah he's the DJ for Dave um PJ Paul kind of is anyway um you know in this case we are just you know imagine that you know the the song the song form is laid out and it's it's you know there's there's a verse and there's a chorus and it's a thing but up until that moment you know a guy like Marty who has been rehearsing with a guy like Paul at a piano and working out the the the shape of the arrangement and all that stuff yeah he's having to imagine what we're going to do so so he's ready for us when when we do what we do even though we've never done it before ourselves you know we just we're just reading a chart and the notes are there and the Dynamics are written in and we kind of we all kind of have a a slight comedy sense by this time you know so we can just a little yeah just a little we know how to get in or out of the way kind of thing you know make it make it small whatever needed yeah um to go back to the charts again to go back to what one of the things we said earlier um you know you don't even know when you're a studio musician like that you're going from Studio to Studio you did a good job kind of painting that picture you end up playing on a hit and nobody knows it I mean how many times has that happened in your career like like okay James Brown that's arguably one of his most famous songs um you know it's certainly the test of time above many of his other ones where where you'll it'll show up in movies and things like that now you're you played the Basse on that one um as a studio musician is there a certain level of I don't even know what you want to call it I don't know if it's ego or or or what it would be but is there a certain level of of of just not giving a that your your talents are being played on something that might be played you know might go number one um and and nobody knows it because at that time they didn't have you in the liner notes was that was that ever a thing or was that just the way it was and you just came up in it and that's just the way it is well you know what I mean at that point um credits were were were a thing that that would you know and I think this I know that lyrics started with the Beatles lyrics on album started with sa and pepper yeah but credits um you know credits were kind of a new thing and a lot of people were doing it but not everybody so you didn't uh and and the funny thing is um I was just looking at a at a Phoebe Snow record today and um uh record that one of the first things I did with producer Phil Ramon and Fe Phoebe uh had these tracks and we going we're recording and you you sign a you sign a form to get paid by the union and all that stuff a W4 or W9 or whatever it is and I guess I was I was kind of you know trying to be official about it so it ended up on the credits and this ha this happened on a few albums that I worked on it came back William F Lee ivth or in this case yeah William Franklin Lee the 4th and this this one I just was noticing today because I had to take it out because I'm about to do a blur about this this one song called No Regrets from Phoebe's second childhood album and it says face will Lee the fourth it's you know that's you screwing around in the studio that's just how you signed the form that day is that is that what that is I I guess I guess probably was on the and my name is I use the name will because when I first got to New York uh Spike Lee's father is Bill was Bill Lee he just passed away with him the last year or two he was an upright bass player oh you're kidding Jaz a very well-known jazz bass player who played with a lot of people like Odetta and Peter Paul and Mary and stuff and just in the Jazz world as well you know he got a lot of folk gigs for his his prowess on upright base yeah but I would get his checks and he would get mine at the union once in a while because I was Bill Lee when I first came to New York City so I decided to change my name anyway that's backstory no that's this is all this is backstory this is the hard-hitting Arcane knowledge we strive for on the Letterman podcast this is this the stuff that I I love that stuff um boy that is Spike Le's dad uh also you know a bass player but just the upright that is uh do you do you play uh upright string base no can't do it hey no I leave that to the pros believe me you don't want to hear me try and I've I've tried a couple times but man it's cumbersome yeah those things are huge yeah well and also try to get it on the subway yeah that's why they call it the dogghouse that's the nickname for those things the guys who play it because you see them like in on New York city streets just Wheeling this thing up and down the streets go into sessions and it's like wow that's a pain what a pain in the ass I love the sound of it you know OB sure the most gorgeous you know natural sounding thing and guys who can really play it you know like it's this guy Christian McBride is coming to town next week I'm thinking about taking one of my nights off to go see him I mean the guys that really play Ron Carter and those you know the real guys man when they play it's just like Heavenly you know it's just so great so I don't see myself ever you know I don't want to start over again so I I'm gonna stick with the electric Bas for a while yeah I think you found your Niche on that one um so so so back to the credits for a second so okay so so credits weren't really a thing they were showing up and and the union stuff okay um but at the end of the day I I just want to I just want to accentuate this a song that gets played millions of times to make millions of dollars might have been you and uh you got paid couple hundred bucks to be to be to be that guy that that that that plays on this track let's talk about some of the tracks that kind of that you played on that maybe people don't know about well I would feel sorry for myself about what you just said before we get into that I was just thinking about like the mtown guys man the guys that sat in in this little you know this little pit the snake pit every day just turning them out and and in the case of the Bas player on those all the the big Motown hits you name it you know you got the Temptations and The Four Tops and The Supremes and just Smoky Robin it everybody that was doing Motown hits and getting hits from doing what these guys sat in a room doing and there there was a guy the bass player was James Jamerson and and he would just to in my opinion and maybe I'm prejudiced because I play the instrument that he played electric Basse he defined those songs with his incredible uh you know ability to to to be creative and come up with a fresh thing for like sugar pie honey bunny underneath that you don't that's you know and then the next tune you're going to hear is uh you know you're gonna hear bernardet or something by the four Toops and that's that's him and you're gonna hear like what's going on you know y are you kidding me yep I mean he's he's he's creating like on the spot and just for like you know I don't know what what what were they getting 50 bucks a day or something you know I don't some ridiculous salary like that and and uncredited and uncredited and they don't go on the road when the artist goes on the road and performs it they're not part of that like like they're just continually doing their thing and I mean you know being it's so funny when you're a creative to be able to be paid to be the creative and feed your family on that there's a lot of Merit to the fact that people strive just for that if they could just get paid to do the thing that they love and make a living out of it you know uh that that that's a perspective right there but then when you see what you create goes on to make millions of millions of dollars for somebody else you know that that that to me it there's there's something there's a there's a there's a Reconciliation that needs to be made there at some point uh well you know go ahead in in in our in our country here in the US um unfortunately there is no there's hardly any kind of built-in like like a there's a thing called neighboring rights that happen other countries and what they do is if there's if there is music that's being it's being played on the radio are there sales from from from recorded stuff that you've done um and I'm not sure what the other sort of stipulations are for getting for for there to be a an accumulation of funds that have been made uh for the purpose of giving to these musicians that are on these these songs you know whether they they whe whether they heard on movies or TV in all these other countries besides America MH they actually have a little bit of money set aside for us who have gotten just that session payment you know yeah so once in a while I'll I'll get an extra little bit of money from some country like Denmark or even Brazil or Germany or you know it's it's interesting but the US doesn't really honor the Arts in that way you know yeah but anyway the other a lot of these other countries and especially Scandinavia and and European countries they really have a a certain you know uh they feel the importance of their of their being art coming out of their countries you know and they'll honor it in a certain way and they'll support it in a way that they don't do in America I don't know how it is for Canada a I think we have the same I always have to say I always have to say Canada a Canada a um I wonder when Paul stopped saying a it seemed to have been uh he seemed to have refined it out of him I say it all the time still um the uh is there a song that you get to check for more than anything is there kind of one or two projects that you played on where where it seems to be you know more uh uh recognized or paid out for than anything because I I really do want to know some of these songs that you played on might not know it like I get I get paid for things like I sang you know along with Schaefer uh we did the the the uh the what would you call it at the end of a movie when when they're rolling credits a final credit song there's a there's a spot for us for music there often and we did Roll Over Beethoven in the movie for the movie Beethoven for groen's that's fantastic once in a while okay y cck will come in for that and I also did there was a movie called Cadillac Records that came out yeah and um I was asked uh to sing all the Beach Boys part for surfing parts for surfing USA everybody's got surfing you know all those parts right harmonies and stuff y there was a scene where Chuck Barry you know is in a studio and he hears this song being recorded and he gets really pissed off because there it's a cop of his one of his Tunes yeah right and um so I get checks for that and that's because of the wisdom of my amazing wife who said you I I want to make sure if you're doing this insist on a sag contract oh there you go had had I not done that this I would never see another Penny but because I did that you know once in a while they get a check um there are commercials that that that run that you know um for commercials when you sing commercials or even play you get a little bit but singing you get a little bit more y you know I used to do all the be all you can be for the for the US army stuff and I was the voice thank you for saying that I didn't know that one I got Teddy grams written down here I want to talk about Teddy grams but but but you were the be all that you can be guy oh and I didn't know that we didn't pre- interview this you just put the hairs up on the back of my neck because I just thought about the commercial and I'm like oh my god of course that's will Lee that's F believe some of the people that were on those sessions you know in the group we had Patty Austin Luther vandros you know I mean it was insane but uh you know uh that was a good one that was a good one to be part of because it it ran a lot you know but uh yeah the teddy the Teddy Grahams thing came about because they were auditioning people to sing teddy bear that Elvis Presley saw I just wna be your teddy and I thought I sounded more like Elvis than anybody and of course I probably sounded less like Elvis than anybody and that's why they they hired me to be the voice of the bear nailed it not that's all I hit anyway it was like a scene out of The Producers I found that out and it in my mind sort of melted uh it was it was when the night you guys played with ooso the night you gave me this t-shirt by the way and thank you for that old school right that girl showed up that girl showed up and her father was the producer I think it was her I think it was yeah yeah and he was a part of that and and she brings up the teddy grams thing like we're in the we're the after the show she starts talking about Teddy grams I'm like wait what the will singing that like it just it's click click click click click and then you told the teddy gram story what yeah that's uh I love I love being able to kind of throw this stuff out there um yeah that what um anything else from from like Barry Manalo I know you played on Barry Manalo like I know you you yeah these are all credited things most of these things are cred okay one thing that's interesting that that I guess I should talk I could talk about at this point is been enough years um Ricky Ricky Martin had a big hit called She Bangs yes She Bangs She moves right whatever it is so uh I was hired with about three three or four or five other guys to be in a gang vocal around a microphone singing She Bang she moves like that you know kind of thing they get this big sound yeah and the producer um kind of had great ears and he he kind of heard something in in my voice that he asked me if I would stay after everybody left so I said yeah what's up and he goes well I want you to I like you to double Ricky Martin's part because you know he's on the road and he can't come in and do it so I swear you can hear my voice louder than Ricky Martin on that record there you go there I told I told Ricky this and he was like yeah I don't think he grasped quite exactly what happened I love did you ever have a uh a guest come on the show and perform who you performed on the original record but you're in the you're in the you're in the Cs the dangerous band or the Cs Orchestra But Here Comes this this act as a as a featured guest and you're one of the studio musicians on their on their album I think it's happened more than once but the the one that that I can think of right now is Sher came on and did I found someone which was kind of a hit yep it's something that Michael Bolton wrote and and I went in I played base on that that's fantastic and are you thinking that when when when when they're starting to perform it or you know they're coming in to perform that you're like hey yeah I played on that like is that or is it just gone because there's so much no it seemed normal yeah okay you know doesn't everybody yeah it was just such a new New York thing you know it's just like everyday everyday New York thing um I really enjoyed having Harvey Goldberg on and oh man I loved his interview with you oh it was it was so good I I I'd like to have him back on again because now that we kind of built a rapport and all that I I want to ask about uh because he really did a good job shining the light on how that show you know again and I and you and I have talked before like I I believe there's so much meat on the bone when it comes to the the uh the musical performances on particularly on Late Show late night as well but it's a different animal late shows musical performances uh you guys did such an amazing job of blending and Harvey did a good job of explaining how he blend you guys would blend the idea of the live performance yet still able to incorporate the elements of the studio uh experience and put it together as one presentation the audience doesn't know the audience at home what they see is what they think that all there is but there's so much in the background that's been added to that Prof performance to give it that little extra oomph um and and and that must have been a unique sort of thing for you to see how that kind of work because you know behind the scenes of both studio and live and it's just really cool how how you guys did that well you think about um what music is made out of and it's it's just it's parts right there are parts and there are parts parts is parts and uh you you play uh you know if you're in the studio it's a very controlled environment you know yeah and and and that's great because you get a chance to focus on on on there being a part and coming up with a part and coming up with the sound and all that stuff and making sure you know it supports the song and all that stuff and uh the part is uh is something that you know kind of helps Define everything but when you play it like when you become uh you know when you get out of the studio and you find find yourself in front of an audience the audience becomes another member of the band really does the audience is the other member of the band and they give you something giving you some energy they're giving you something that you can't get in the studio and this is why I always loved going back and forth between live playing and the studio playing yeah because in the studio you get a chance to hone your sort of your craft and get your sound together and you know design things in a in a focused way but then you get the Nutty energy of of live you know and and that's something you can also bring back to the studio now you have something that you can partic you can you can uh contribute to a studio thing that you know guys who just live in studios they can't bring that yep you know but but if you go out and and perform in front of people and you get some feedback and you sort of know you know you get a feeling of of uh of what's translating and what's getting a rise out of somebody you know you you have more information to to bring back into the studio to to play your your next thing yeah others will get them you know that kind of thing kind of reminds me of uh kind of reminds me of of a great quote that I I read John poer was interviewed the great harmonica player I was about to mention John popper anyway keep going really yeah I was he's one of the one of the friends of the I was going to go Friends of the show Friends of the band who would come in and sitting with you guys a lot John Popper's on that list I was going to mention him and John Mayor okay so anyway y yeah I just happened to be uh reading a music magazine where he was being interviewed it was kind of a 20 Questions type thing right yeah and I don't know if I've ever mentioned this to you before but I was I was uh really taken by this one question that that was out of the blue the guy said to John popper where does music come from and John popper I'm quoting I'm I'm paraphrasing well as my music teacher Arie Lawrence once said to me the only honest music a human makes is when a baby first cries as soon as it gets his first hug it's all Show Business from that moment forward it's so great oh it all melts into each other it all inspires each other it all you know there are very few new ideas there are very like yeah that's a that's a great so seeing what an audience responds to helps you play more uh um you know uh accessible stuff in the studio yeah there's a reason why green day is as popular as they are now as they were when I remember when their first Indie I think kerplunk was their first Indie I loved them when they were on the Indie scene it's it's it simple in the sense but it's so catchy and it's so it just it's so uh so many people it's so accessible I guess that's the word for it it's great Billy has a really great sense of uh of of the theatric I that's really something that really works for for those guys and I love the sound of his voice yeah and you know and they're great guys you know they're just brilliant it's just like a perfect threes in those guys oh yeah the personality that they have is just it's it's in their music like like when you see them on stage it's like their the the the personality that you hear when you're listening to it becomes personified like it just it they are they are one the sound and the and their Antics or whatever you want their presentation is is uh you know the Beasty Boys are like that too you know and and I mean I'm not saying they're necessarily as simple um as as green day but Green Day one of the things I love I've seen them play many times and I don't know if you've seen them play on a on on on a large scale or not but one of the things that Billy I don't know if he does it anymore but he used to do it he goes okay okay okay to the audience go okay shut up shut the f up you know you do this who knows how to play guitar and and you know You' see some people in the first 15 you know a bunch of people put their hands up no no no do you really know how to play guitar do you really know how to play okay you know okay okay okay and he'd bring him up on stage and you'd see him whisper something in the guy's ear and Trey and they would jump in and suddenly this guy is playing on stage with Green Day oh wonderful oh was so great to watch that and then you know he'd finish they'd finish whatever song it was maybe hitch and a ride or whatever it is um probably I think hitch and a ride might have been the song because it's got that it's got a it's got that framework to it right and and then the guy finishes and Billy's like okay now get off the stage go do a stage dive and make him stage dive off I mean what a what a moment right what a moment for that's taking a chance oh absolutely and just I just I I iore that I just read Dave groll's book called Storyteller you have to read it if you haven't read it I haven't read it yet it's on my list it's just really a great well-written book about just things that happened you know about his life and one of the stage dive things caused him to have that broken leg and he was up on this pedestal for like a whole tour just you know yeah like Solomon Burke sitting in a chair yep you know just was motionless up there but he was delivering the songs oh yeah to stop that guy um there's a there's a there's a modern day musical icon right there that's a guy who uh you know he gets it he understands all of entertainment did you see when he uh it was the I think it was the Halloween show you Kimmel one of the things I love about Jimmy Kimmel is that he he has guest hosts and and and really doesn't it's not that he doesn't care but he just he allows people to guest host his show and and and uh he's not insecure about it he's he's fine and there was a Halloween show and Dave Gro was the guest host and he came out dressed as Dave have you seen that I think I've seen like a little snippet or something it's great it's so great he comes out with like Dave even some of the jokes are sort of delivered in a Dave ask he's got the big beard and he's got the he's got he's got one of the old school Letterman uh Late Night with Dave letterman jackets on and it's just it's like Dave Gro gets it he he is just there's a guy who you're just I'm so grateful by curiously I get joy watching his joy as he gets to collaborate with so many of these people that he worshiped or people who are coming up and worship him and he does it he gets it he's a guy who just he collaborates so beautiful really yeah and he's kind of like so open-minded he's very Limitless in in a way um he did a thing let me see if I can if I can find it really quickly he did a thing with uh with he does a thing with a with a super talented friend of his um what's the guy's name uh they they do a thing oh his name is Kirsten I think something Kiren and they do a thing called the Hanukkah sessions and he did a version of of Copa Cabana speaking of songs that that I've done with Barry Manalo of of he's fronting and the guy is playing all the the stuff all the all the background you know all the all the track stuff and Dave is I think he's in some kind of a really cheap looking tux and he's you know you can tell he's reading off a music stand because he doesn't know all the lyrics but there's a lot of lyrics in there and he's delivering this Copa aan of many that they do the whole thing and it was fantastic I love that he just doesn't care no he doesn't like the DG's the Foo Fighters DG's album where where it's the Foo Fighters doing BG songs like fantastic I love that anything goes he's so into music he's just so into everything and uh you know I guess one of the things that proves that is when he did Love Rocks I came up I with a with a with another you know you talking about the collaborations that we sometimes do with people I ask him and I know that he's you know got a little a friendship and a love for Paul McCartney a friendship with and a love of Sir Paul so I said how do you feel about doing uh you know Live and Let Die and he went for it and we we worked it up man we got all the details we got all the parts we you know slaved over it for a few weeks got it all together and he killed it was really really really fun do you have a date for next year already uh yes we do do you rocks is I think it's March I think it's the sth or or the 6th next year of of March I gotta get out there for it I gotta talk to Candy we gotta we gota we gotta get out for that like it's just March six March 6 and it's going to be at the Beacon again yeah oh it was perfect it perfect venue yeah it's really a beautiful place a great place to play uh everybody there's there a bunch of Love Rocks is on YouTube you can find you can find the the the video of uh the finale all you got to do you know what watch the finale of Love Rocks they're playing um uh let's dance by David Bowie go go watch that and tell me you don't want to be in that room tell me the fomo doesn't just light you up so much about being in that room knowing Conan O'Brien opened the show knowing that they have all these amazing moments um you know throughout it and and for the cause that it is tell me you don't want to be part of that um yeah yeah I that's good because uh sometimes when you are the uh the captain of such ships uh you you you you feel like enough voyages have happened the fact that you still have energy for it is is is amazing um it's such a it's such a wonderful wonderful night but the prep that goes into it is insane um there is one other criticism that I got from not it wasn't even you know what it wasn't a criticism uh uh one of the things that that folks as because you and I kind of got it we didn't get into it get into it but I didn't know you very well when you came on the show the first time we'd only had like one little Exchange and whatnot and I didn't know my my depth if I was allowed to ask you about this even though you kind of open the door um you asked me you know I I talk about how I love going to concerts and they're like religious experiences for me and they they just they're Transcendent the communal part the the art the way that it just enters everybody's uh you know ears and hearts at that moment and you said and you asked me about enhancements and I said oh yeah well I'm from British Columbia uh you know but I didn't I didn't actually I don't partake in pot very often I'm not a huge Drinker uh but I started the I started the pot sometimes when I was about 38 years old about 10 years ago so I I'm I'm you know and and uh for me um I don't want to forget an experience a musical experience so I don't really like going to concerts with there any pot there because I want to I want to have that mental uh video recorder on like crazy and somebody asked me hey you guys talked a little bit about substances and you didn't ask Will about sobriety which is something that's really really important to him him and you just had an anniversary that came up um and I asked you beforehand so this is we don't pre-interview everybody but I did ask Will if it was okay that I asked him about this because I I'm I'm I'm super curious is it 35 years of sobriety now 39 39 what was uh the Catalyst because that now that makes me think about this guy here looking at this guy there he is right there is that guy gooned out of his mind right there I don't know is that no that's that's after after I after I had been to rehab afterwards okay and it was an official thing so you know as a musician not not surprisingly uh there's a party scene that is attached to to said profession um you know even when I go and see you in New York you know you're playing with Paul and ooi and and whatnot like I mean it's it's in it's it's at The Bitter End it's in a bar and it's you know not known for the food so much let's have some drinks let's do some music that kind of a thing uh I'm curious about your journey to sobriety well you know my journey to sobriety was uh was kind of forced because I I it was I was forced into it because I could not function anymore because I think for for years I I guess I was what you would call a functioning drug addict or functioning alcoholic in my case both and I would be very careful about you know when I was going to to partake and when I was not going to because because I didn't want to destroy the mus music and uh you know you can't really it's not a real creative uh Spa head space to be in it's not really that conducive to making magical music I don't think I mean not in my case yeah what it is more than anything else is is something that kind of numbs your pain the pain of growing up and who wants to grow up you know I certainly didn't and uh there were certain things that you have to face uh to to start to start entering into being a grownup that you just may not want to deal with yeah and it's a lot more fun to party than to deal with realities of the pain of growing up you know and I really have to hand it to any any kid between the age of like say 11 and maybe 25 or 30 yeah who is able to figure out a way to to get through those difficult years without doing anything anything to numb their senses you know what I mean so I certainly took the Cowardly way out and you know I was slowly killing myself the chicken crap the chicken way yeah you know yeah one one hit at a time one drink at a time yeah and you know I maned to trick the system for a long time I would just know how to time it and all that stuff I would be on in a club and I would yell over to the waitress right before we were about to start the last song and I would say get me six screwdrivers on that table put them on that table for when I get off the stage thank you go there I would go to the table right afterwards I would sort of beine for the drinks I would start hitting it start drinking those drinks and and I would definitely uh get through to to about number four or five and I would order the next six then the bar then the bar would close and then I'd go to the after hours place because you couldn't keep drinking at the at the legal bar y so you'd have to go to a place where a guy had done time for a cop who was allowed to have it after hours Place yep without them closing him down so you know that pattern worked for a while and then it just uh and then those those that careful timing thing that you were able to like work in between they started to come closer and closer together until they finally met and then you were just too messed up to work and at one point I I I asked myself this question and I blew my own mind by saying it I I finally my my my whole life was such a mess social life the the working life the relationship life my friends you know they had just about given up on me and I finally asked myself are you happy and the answer was so it was so hard I couldn't I couldn't get up a yes because I was so obviously miserable that I finally said that's it I got to call a rehab and see if they have room for me you know you guys have any room for me and and the guy was so great he said I remember the guy's name I'm not gonna I'm not going to bust his anonymity but yeah said yeah come on in I said man okay that's it and that night the next the next morning I was going in and that night I it if my memory serves me right I was with John Candy the whole night completely just crying and you know and he sat there with me listening to me you know carry on and he was such a sweetheart that he actually sat with me you know the whole time and and just kind of say it's going to be okay this is right after we did cabbage rolls and coffee good on the let show was right after that if my memory serves me right and maybe uh Uncle Uncle Don will know more about the exact date of when that happened he will he absolutely will cabbage rolls and coffee good that was it that was it okay and and and so um I guess it would have been NBC but I mean Dave at the you know everybody everybody totally supportive go do what you got to do you got a place for you when you've when you've done it yeah that was the that was the hardest thing for me to do because I had gigs lined up and lined up and lined up so I had to call everybody say hey man I'm sorry but I just you know and and Paul was the greatest you know we got uh a sub came in for like the five weeks I was out Marcus Miller I think came in yeah great base player world renowned yeah yeah so yeah so I I you know and I it was a four-week program actually was it a 12 step or was it something a little different yeah it was it was one of those yeah and and about the it was getting close to the end of the fourth week and I and I just said man I'm I'm not ready so I I let I I I I called everybody back again and I said I'm gonna I'm GNA force myself to to do this for another week I want to make sure I I'm getting it you know yeah so that was it after that I did a lot a lot of meetings and a lot of shrink visits for years and stuff like that and it really helped me and I got really lucky because I was just not really ever wanting to go back to that that lifestyle and funny thing is so one of the first gigs I did after after getting out of rehab like if you are are really paranoid and you're and you're doing work you're you don't want to be singled out by by a producer in a studio so you play you play it real safe you know you just play Simple Things and just don't really take any chances and that's and that that's getting back to why I was talking about how it's really bad for creativity it's not a great creative thing to be to be ingesting that and then trying to do a creative Endeavor like music right you know you're you're not willing to to take those chances like you should that's what art is all about right yeah so um I remember doing a gig at the Blue Note in New York with some friends and we were playing you know some like a we had like a week of soldout shows with I think my friend Chuck lob great guitar player and I got off the stage and and I had been so animated on stage that on my way up to the dressing room a guy said hey man you get any more of that stuff man you look so high I really want to I want to see I want to see what it feels like to and I said listen let me let me explain something to you my life has just gone from black and white to Living Color yeah you know because I'm so free now that if you seen me when I actually was taking something you would have seen a guy who was just kind of in the corner playing it very safe you know yeah but the animated guy is the guy who's free and not on any substances you know so that's the big that was the big difference you know just getting out of that rut I was in a rut yeah so I'm so happy to be out of it for these 39 years well and now it gives a it gives a different um it gives a different if you go back now and everything time you know you'd see the the theme to the to the show playing and there's a spot where where and you talk you talk about it in your uh um and your favorite moment segment that Walter did with you uh a little while back for the official Letterman Channel there's a part uh right before the The Fan Fair to Dave actually coming out where it goes bop bop and you have this you have this energy to you you do like you've got this spark uh that is contagious you know and and and um I certainly saw watching you you know live with ooi up close and personal you you've got this energy about you and it is a gratefulness that you that that that you exude um because you you knew what it was like to be in the Rut and you know what it's like to have your head out of it and going oh somebody once told me that a rut is a grave with the ends kicked out and um W you know and you think about what it's like to be in a grave and and and what that kind of feels like versus living and and and uh for you to have that as the definition of it is is is is beautiful uh is it at the point now like I mean because you are in that scene like I there are some people who who when they get sober they want to remove themselves from the situations not really an option with you were there ever any times where you were like oh yeah I remember that feeling I'd like to go back like was there ever any you know you've been in bars all these sorts of party party type atmospheres uh for 30 years anytime or 39 years anytime that where it's been yeah I'd like to play with that again no not at all not at all because I it's I did it for so long I did it for a lot of years and it was consistent yeah and I did it for enough years that I can think really carefully I mean without have without having to really stretch my brain out I it feels like it was weeks ago you know I just know what's going to lead to what if I start messing around you know I just know the pattern it was it was a pattern yep you know so it's a pattern that's really worth getting out of for sure you spent a lot of time in Paris uh does your wife drink wine nope no she doesn't drink either doesn't doesn't drink yeah my my wife and I just went to Paris for the very first time we just got back about a week and a half ago oh did you love it I we loved yeah we loved it we we love New York you know how much I love New York my wife uh loves New York the way I love New York however um I think uh I think she's having an affair on New York because now since we've gotten back she's got the Dual lingo every day she's got the phone in front of her she's learning French every single day she's learning French and she I mean yeah the culture there um is just astounding when it comes to slowing down and talk about getting out of the rut you know the idea of slowing down not being like the cafe culture seeing how few people are on phones uh no tog go cups to speak of in Paris no no no if you're going to go have a coffee with somebody going to sit down and you're going to have an experience from it it's it's it's it's it's the very definition of trying to be present and yeah we uh how much time did you spend there how much how long were you there we were only there a week we were only there a full week but uh good hang that's a good that's a good and we were staying up on uh Mont Mart just under sakur so that's where we stayed the entire time and then of course we went to the other spots but that area there is just it was magic it was it was it was just absolutely beautiful you spend how how how often are you there you're half the year we go to the South so we the we don't see much Paris but but when we do you know it's probably every couple of years or you know we try to make a trip up to see it and it's just magical you know yeah it's such a such a wonderful wonderful place um did you ever have did you ever sponsor anybody you seem like you'd be a guy that could uh and and if you didn't that's okay I'm just curious if you have any words of wisdom or any insights for somebody out there who maybe this conversation kind of you know tilled the earth a little bit and got them thinking a little bit about things do you have any uh do you have any wisdom that you've learned no but there's a I don't I never did a sponsor thing and I never had a sponsor an official one I've had many sponsors if you know what I mean and I relied on people you know to you know have open conversations with about this stuff and of course been to many many meetings yeah but um I just want to you know the thing that's really different about now is Fen inal y so if that's not enough reason you might as well take you might as well take a a pistol with not not not one bullet of the six but like three or four yeah just spin it and see what happens if you if you pull the trigger with it next to your head it's like Russian Roulette times times four or something yeah it's really really not worth messing around with any of that street stuff any kind of absolutely well my my men's I have as you know I've got a men's mental Wellness podcast that's where if I have chops at this thing it's where I got it from my wife's building her men's mental Wellness app he changed it I talk about it incessantly all the time of course can't wait to check that out oh it's it's it's it's it's cool and and it's about to kind of go to the next level you know the app is great there's already hundreds of users every day that use the app and all that but and and he cast is awesome uh but the road map of what they're like they literally my wife and her team want to change the world that's the goal the goal is to change the world and and obviously part of um you know men's mental Wellness there's a component to it that has to do with addiction or dependence or whatever you want to call it so we've had on heast a whole pile of experts on this subject and and and and they're not even calling them overdoses with fentanyl they're calling them poisonings because that's really what it is it's it's it's people poisoning themselves in a way like it's is a different deal than back in the day when you're scor when you're scoring something now um there is you know people who have lived yeah we just had a father uh reach out to us and they talked about his son who who this you know just passed away this last year you know regular Regular Guy uh moved into into a house with his three best friends out of high school they live together they're still together you know till 27 years old one of them got a job a really cool new job and so the other two they went out to celebrate one night okay let's let's score a little Coke they scored a little Coke and uh to celebrate and that's all it was just like they did 10 years ago um not something that they do often but that's what they did that night um the three of them lived together the two of them stayed downstairs because they didn't have to work the next day the one said no you know what I'm not going to partake I'm going to go upstairs uh because I got to work tomorrow morning he comes down to the basement the next morning and they're both they're both gone and and and it just and you know regular folk this is not this is one of those things where where that is a the stuff that's out there right now the fentanyl that is just um absolutely it's erasing lives it's it's it's destroying lives and it's poisoning things it's just it's such a it's such an awful time in place right now where where there's so many people that are dependent on this stuff and um yeah yeah that story just told it's just too becoming too typical it's just not it's it's the norm it's not an exception as much as it should be you know it's it's really rampant it's it's too much much abolutely I I'm so grateful that you got out of it um and and it's interesting you know the parallel with Dave and and uh you know not telling any Tales out of school if you watch the latest NE my next guest uh with David lman it features John meany and it's it's it's a powerful piece entertaining piece uh as well it's very very powerful but both of them talk about the journey uh that they went on it just occurs to me that the timing with you and Dave is very similar you know Dave you know at the point where he said he talks about in the show I thought I was going to lose my show and so I knew I needed to I needed to make a change that sort of thing um I just appreci AR we glad he did aren't we all glad he did aren't we all glad he did yeah we are um what's next for you what do you got going on you got the band camp coming up how that I'm going to go see MJ the musical in in a few minutes I'm GNA go are you have dinner and then go see MJ the musical fantastic you know sandrine's out of town and she doesn't like musicals but I do so I'm gonna go see that tonight I've seen it already once before good for you that's uh I saw the the Vegas show and it was it was it was something to behold I love that music so so so much it just um and Vanilla Fudge with Paul which is gonna be fun that's coming up on Sunday but the the band camp Magical Mystery Camp yeah how do you sign up for that anybody June 25th 26th 27th and 28th and you go to match mystery camp.com and there it is oh right on I appreciate you doing this this episode's coming out tomorrow so there's lots of time for that um I've already shot next Friday's episode because next week I'm actually in La all week and I'm G to be seeing Dave I'm GNA be watching Dave uh uh uh at the at the the the monobond the Ricardo monobond theater in La what's he doing so he's doing a show for the Netflix Comedy Festival it's called Dave Letterman and the gods of Comedy so I love it um I know I I've I've had the opportunity to find out which three guests he's doing three nights Monday Tuesday Wednesday I'm driving down um I know I've got tickets to the Wednesday night show and who knows what happens on the Monday Tuesday we'll see what happens for those days but um someone I I've had the opportunity to find out who the gods are I assume there's a different one each night uh but I won't I want to know I want to be surprised I want to be surprised that night I'm in the second row on the third night and uh Dave's gonna come out he's going to do some some of his you know monologue I assume and then they're going to bring out the god of Comedy who will do some standup and then they'll do panel together for for for a while so to me that's a that's a that's a fantastic night worth traveling for so oh man that sounds fantastic yeah and then it's going to be on Netflix uh you know probably sooner than later so uh so that's going to be fun and then I'm going to see Kimmel on the Thursday night and um yeah other stuff too it's gonna be hanging out with Morty I'm gonna go hang Morty and I are gonna go out so I'm excited about that yeah man yeah doing it say hi for me I will I absolutely will um I appreciate you and your friendship so much will like so much I'm so glad we we talked about everything and uh and you're the you bring out the best in everybody so thank you you're a sweetheart for saying so uh to be continued this is not goodbye this is see you later and uh I hope you have a have a fantastic uh time with your girl away go enjoy your Musical and and just just continued success on everything will I can't wait for our paths to cross more I love you brother I love you too give my love to your wife candy we've never met but I'm a fan yeah she's a fan of you too same thing I absolutely will um I'll just do a I'll do a really quick outro and then we'll say our goodbye privately um boy oh boy this is this is the fun part of where the show is at where you know you build relationships and we as a show build relationships we have like like uh late shows we have friends of the show and and will of course uh one of the very tippy top of the list are best friends of the show we just appreciate him so so so much go check out everything that will is doing um and and and if you can make it to the Love Rocks go look at some of the Love Rocks footage it's for a good cost 4 million damn dollars rais oh my God that's unbelievable uh for phenomenal night as well I'm going to try and be there next year um we have one sponsor one sponsor only at the Letterman podcast and that is hello- deli.com Rupert may not own the hello Deli anymore but he does still have hellodd deli.com your only source for official Late Show with David Letterman merchandise including mugs and hats and shirts and all sorts of stuff uh this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum coincidentally I am Mike Chism thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants