The Influence of Letterman on Today’s Broadcasters wish guest Chris Schieman

all right yall thought that I might be fibbing this is proof right now the Letterman podcast we have one sponsor one sponsor only but it is rbert G in the hello Deli thank you very much for sponsoring our show rert it's my honor Mike welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum all right I'm excited for this episode Mike you're excited for all the episodes yes I'm excitable it's just the way that I am and I love doing this I love doing this show uh and I get excited for every single guest that we have here this guy is is fantastic and you'll hear it in the um you know I'll get to it real quick his name is Chris sheeman uh Chris hosts um a podcast so it's two podcast hosts getting together and I think that's always fun it's it's it's it's it's like when doctor strange and Iron Man showed up on screen for the first time together in an Avengers movie it's interesting Alchemy when you get a couple of hosts together to go over things Chris hosts a podcast called there's too many podcast podcasts it's a podcast about podcasts it's it's him talking and picking the brain of other podcast hosts which I think is an absolute uh genius premise he actually had me on uh his show as a guest and that was a lot of fun and he loves Letterman so much and has some really um hardwired emotional connections to Dave and Company and so we get to talk about that a little bit more here where on his show he kind of picked my brain um you know good luck but here I get to pick his brain and he's been a a broadcaster forever influenced to become a broadcaster because of Dave and it was just a really fun conversation uh this is a very important part of the Letterman podcast and the and and and our DNA is bringing on people who have been influenced by the show and touched by the show in some way the community as we like to call them uh uh Chris Shan certainly a member of that uh I appreciate every single person that reaches out uh you know thoughtfully or even carelessly whatever for everything that we do we've got our group on Facebook please like share subscribe all that crap we appreciate it very very much but if you don't that's okay we're going to do the show anyway uh so without further Ado the Letterman podcast is proud to present my conversation with Chris sheeman host of there's too many podcasts Chris I'm stoked that you're here and uh before before you say a word I want to make a an observation probably not found uh by any stretch of the imagination but you know I think about a guy like Neil Brennan who is a legend in comedy uh both as a writer Chappelle Show and then he decided to go out and and and realize uh uh how amazing he is on his own as a standup as as these other things he started his podcast blocks the very first guest is David Letterman in one of in my opinion one of the best interviews that Dave has done in modern history talking about the late night Wars and all that sort of stuff it's an amazing amazing thing um you come out been a broadcaster for a long time decide to start uh there's too many podcasts it's a podcast about podcasts and a genius premise by the way love the Prem thanks for saying it like that you nailed it thank you uh been working on it been working on it um and uh your first guest on the show you picked me and now the way that I would compare these two ships that are floating in the universe uh you know the very smallest APAP craft that is us in our situation versus the Behemoth Mothership um that is Brennan and Letterman I feel it's apropo and and and I was the first guest on your show I love the premise of there's too many podcasts I love the fact that uh that that you are um going out there and literally picking the brain of other podcasters out there welcome to the Letterman podcast we're going to talk about your history and how much you love Dave and how You' been influenced by it but welcome here and how is the podcast going well first of all thank you for having me in what I'm sure is going to be the lowest rated episode you've ever done I really really appreciate that it doesn't matter if you don't know how to comprehend numbers and that's the way I look at this whole thing so no worries ladies and gentlemen for the love of God this man is scraping at the bottom of the barrel I am officially it this is it well and there's a few others that are gonna be last year uh in the summertime we did the summer intern series and we had a a few episodes in a row of folks who were interns for the show and uh for one of the shows either late night or late show and had moved on into whatever they moved on into but they still talk about it as it being their most um meaningful experience in their life and it profoundly uh changed the trajectory of where they are this summer here it's actually broadcasters I've got a list of people who went into broadcasting and certainly recognize the through line of of of David Letterman's Productions as uh a center point or major influence it's very very very apparent that is the case with you right yeah it is and and to go back to your original question the podcast is going let's let's let's put a period I started this podcast that Mike has accurately described to you uh it's about a it's about podcast and I talk to different people who host podcasts and I try to find some interesting and different and unique things about it um but it's going um your numbers were very good uh it's kind of been amazing how few guests will actually promote their appearance it uh for somebody who works in broadcasting uh you will talk to other broadcasters that anxiety that takes over like uh did I piss them off like Dave when he couldn't get Tom Cruz to come on or Oprah to come on yep so uh you know I wanted to put something out there because I've done a lot of sports broadcasting and I want people to see that I can do something else other than that so that's really the main goal of that podcast and and that's been accomplished uh well or not I don't know but it's out there um and now where were we were we talking about Dave no no no no no no we're going to stay in your broadcasting Lane for a second here because you've been doing this for a long time um let's talk exactly uh the lane that you have been in you've been a sports broadcaster and are you talking play byplay are we talking color are we talking hosting shows and and and and bumper things or or what what's your I don't like I don't like hosting shows uh in sports I don't like talking about the games before the games I don't like talking about the games after the games so I'm straight up a a play-by-play person and it's interesting you mentioned you're going to talk to a lot of broadcasters uh this summer because I know a lot who work in the Sports World who are fans of Dave uh will dor who's a minor league baseball guy uh is well he was when Twitter was still a thing before it became whatever it is now uh we you know we kind of talked and shared you know Letterman stories and things like that very often so there are a lot of people in broadcasting and there's a surprising amount of people in sports broadcasting that uh really uh owe their chops in part to Dave there's lots of different people um I've I'm a historian of I consider myself a broadcaster first uh the reason why I did the podcast is because nobody else does they consider me a sports broadcaster but I consider myself a broadcaster first same way that Dave did so I study it I studied the history of you know I I go back and I find old clips of Betty White when she was doing that free form early days of talk show TV daytime TV in California in like the early 50s from them to Steve Allen to Jack par uh giant Carson believe it or not not so much uh I I do like Johnny and I I have a lot in common in my personal self with Johnny Carson sure but um you know I I view him as kind of the old Hollywood the same way I think a lot of Letterman fans do um but you know what he accomplished is remarkable and his impact on Letterman is no doubt the most important thing for Dave so I understand him from that perspective and it is kind of nice to go back and watch those shows and see the old Hollywood like that but it's just not for me it's not something I get entertained by so but but I do study him I study all of them um even the ones you know I I like I don't like uh you know and and I kind of formulated my abilities from that but it's really important to me uh that these kinds of things like what you're doing exist because uh being able to talk about broadcasting is one of my favorite things it really really is well and that's one of the reasons why um I think it's also it's also a Serendipity thing like like like again one of the things that I'm trying to do with this show and I think I I sort of mentioned it on on my appearance on your show uh which I love that conversation very very much I thought we had a a fantastic time and and and uh I think I mentioned that like one of the things that I want to do is just really open it up and let organically things flow and things happen I know that you're wanting to do that with your podcast as well there's a certain Beauty to that when you don't really have an outcome except for the the process itself and and and having these things kind of organically sort of all come into place all these broadcasters that I'm planning on having on this summer um and I mean don't get me wrong we got Anton fig coming on and a few other a few other really cool Letterman yeah we got a Anton zip um we have a few um you know Letterman folk uh who worked for the show that are coming on too so I'm G to interlace everybody but it's funny how folks in television production and folks in uh like I think about Darren Cox who's been on he's on our very first episode in fact you know and and and he's been in television for for decades and a lot of the folks in the control room in the studio they all Bond over Letterman and it's so interesting how this guy who started in radio started in smalltime TV and and and then went and got the rub from the guy who started as as a host of other things right and it's funny how you know Letterman took so much of that from Johnny and Incorporated it in but you're right he's a broadcaster first and uh a lot of broadcasters feel that way I know that every time you read a bill Carter book or a book about Letterman where they talk about oh he's not a comedian he's a broadcaster people have heard that but I don't know that it's really G been gone down the path where to the point where it's beaten to death where we could talk about it and and and that's one of the reasons why I think all these broadcasters gravitate towards him it just uh you know a fisherman can always recognize another fisherman you know we all wanted to be Dave we all wanted to do that talk show that's you know that was my first goal as you know sitting there and watching it with my dad I pointed to it and I said that that's what I want um but the reality is is not everybody does and around that time you had to suck up to Lauren Michaels anyways and who wants to do that so you know the opportunities we can name a few people who not me but uh the you know there's there's a lot of different Avenues is what I'm saying and the other thing that I did come to the realization was that I didn't really have anything to offer I mean look at me I got the gap tooth um everything that I was doing was kind of just emulating Letterman anyways I didn't have a lot of original ideas myself so when I came to that realization that's when the world kind of opened up and I said okay well what can I do a guy like Dave did the hardest thing possible he gotten that that ugly ass truck yep I think he still has and he drove to California and for somebody as anxious as him I can only imagine what doing standup was like but he did that my Approach was to was to say okay what's the easiest route and the easiest route really is sports um there are tons of small colleges in the United States now that are really struggling and a lot of them are closing their doors but there's still thousands of them there's every every town has a team every Community has a team um I don't particularly like doing High School sports but it's there if you need it you can do that um so you want to sharpen your teeth you can yeah or just there's plenty of people the best sports broadcaster on the planet is probably some guy calling six-man foot football in some desert town in Texas y you know who's been doing it for 80 years or whatever but hasn't connected anything else yeah yeah yeah but hasn't connected dots to necessarily go and do anything else because you know to to to to do the hardest thing like what you said with like what Dave did I mean that's the extreme example but there's a lot of people out there they don't put together you know uh putting to together a nice CV or a demo reel or whatever and the ambition and the permission for the ambition to to send that out and to do the things that would help them grow into that I love what you just said that's I think you're bang on you have to you know you have to understand yourself you have to uh look at yourself what you're capable of and what you want out of life um and not Chase uh that ego and Chase that narcissism that uh if if I'm not at ESPN which I hate I hate ESPN to begin with I wouldn't want to work with them but you know if I'm not at ESPN if I'm not David Letterman's replacement I'm nothing there's a a number of ways especially nowadays where you can have a career in broadcasting and it's extremely difficult to tell kids who are in broadcasting schools these things because they all think they're going to be the next Seth Meyers now or the next uh I don't even know who the people are uh whatever robot they're cranking out at ESPN that all sound the same but you know you don't have to go that route you can be yourself and uh you can probably tell in the sound of my voice I'm a little bit rebellious to begin with yeah uh I don't fit under that corporate mold and so being able to carve out my own little side of the industry and be able to sustain it for well I've been doing it for 20 years I started in radio yep um um and then I went off on my own in 2010 and I haven't really looked back since then and uh so that being said um I W to so so this is good we've painted a really nice picture here you mentioned earlier your dad and um and and and and that that hits my heart uh in a lot of ways right now I know you lost him was it was it four years ago you lost dad it'll be five years ago in two days okay so we're almost five years I'm in the process right now of helping my dad uh come to grips with some dementia stuff and um you know my dad has had a an amazing um transformation in his life and and and and I mean my uh my other podcast my men's mental Wellness podcast I've had him on three times and all three of those times I have this amazing like the first episode he talked about um his his his battles with anger and things like that and my dad has turned into a completely different guy from 50 he's 73 now from 50 to 73 he turned into a completely different guy and we talked about that in the second episode we talked about he went he had a heart attack and identity as a man and the third one is my dad and I talking with him mostly Lucid about what he's going through and what he knows he's going through right now and I have these conversations in beautiful hd and they're there for me forever as long as I have them and and it's it's an amazing thing um and I pick up a lot of wisdom from people when they talk about when they lost their dad and uh with you yourself um your dad directly indirectly I think safe to say directly um is the reason that you became a fan of David Letterman is that not is that not the case yeah Dad watched him in the 80s and because of the this he used to always joke that Dave was my real dad and my mom ran off to New York and had an affair which uh you know and how old were you when he was telling you this how old was were you I was pretty I was like I was like 11 or 12 um yeah our oldest my old knew he was I I knew he was joking yeah I knew he was joking but well that's good because our oldest told our youngest that there was a middle brother that was sent off to Vancouver because we didn't like and he was convinced of it for a few years there was a Corey Cory was around and I love that story I love that story so Dad would say that that's fantastic but but uh the way that you described it to me though was was was that dad wanted to find something for you two to bond with and for me like with my granddaughter I if if I get her into something like we go to see a hockey game live or if we go to see like I've shown her some Letterman Clips already like dropping stuff off buildings and stuff and I like to get the the reaction from her she's six but if she like were to attach to this it's one of the greatest feelings in the world it feels like Dad was really trying to get you into something that he was into in a way that you guys could bond is that accurate yeah the way I put it when when we last talked was you know how do you how do you as a parent bond with a 13 14-year-old you know what do you have in common and for my dad uh he kind of recognized that snarkiness in me and uh my dad was fascinated by TV as most Boomers were they were put in front of TVs and and raised on TV so uh he was fascinated by it and he that was around the time of the late night Wars when everybody was fascinated by it and I got into it and uh and yeah it was a way for us you know when curfew came and dad had to pick me up from whatever girl's house I was striking out at um you know it was it was time to go home and we would watch Dave and then we would watch Saturday Night Live on Saturday nights that's fantastic and like I said everything in my life uh from those nights together yeah has everything has led to this point it's it's it's all connected and it all goes back to just my Dad saying uh let me get a pizza with this kid and just see if this will work you know and work it did um you're also Midwestern right like there's a it's funny there's a there's a kinship from the Midwest guys and gals out there with who who with Dave there there there's like an ownership almost uh that's there people love to identify with the fact that you know it's one of their own like not just Letterman but Carson some of these other people from the Midwest cin who who you know made it big um you're a Midwest guy as well yeah uh Cleveland Ohio which uh you know Dave got a lot of connections to Cleveland with the his staff I I think even going back to Bob bordon was is from Cleveland and uh and his wife is from Cleveland so uh you know a Midwest guy knows a Midwest gal you yeah so there's a lot of broadcasters that come out of the Midwest it's it was put to me in college that we have a certain dialect we have a certain accent that is most pleasing to people uh ours is fairly neutral so so that's I think that's part of the reason why you see that uh although sometimes I don't consider Cleveland to be Midwest we're very much a Great Lakes we've got more in common in this city with a City like Philadelphia or even a southern city like Memphis than we do with uh Nebraska with even Indiana our next door neighbors I don't feel that same kinship with but but it is technically you know technically the accent and and that's why this is kind of a breeding ground for broadcasters is what I'm told anyways that's very interesting where did you go to school uh I went to Cleveland State here for a couple of years and I tried to start a sports uh sports broadcasting on the radio there and they flat out rejected it so I transferred then to Bowling Green uh Bowling Green is uh one of the well they were at the time there is no sports radio anymore there but at the time we were the largest in the country we did all of the games so it was great to be able to go there and to be able to practice and still be two hours away to do laundry once a month yeah that's a that's an amazing um you know Proving Ground and and and getting your chops were you the guy that uh like when Dave was a straight man when it came to this stuff well I mean when you read zinman's book and he talks about you know Dave in College radio he was always a Rabel Rouser but even like when he was a straight man like the weatherman on on on the local affiliate um you know he he threw in humor that kind of a stuff I assume that you are that guy uh doing play-by-play whenever it is possible for you to be it did that start right away or did you a level of comfort have to show up before you could you could do that yeah I've been called unprofessional from day one because of that because as a play-by-play guy you're not supposed to be part of the story you're really really not by the definition of being a play-by-play guy you describe what's going on around you you describe to players you talk about stats that is not what I do well I do do that you know but I believe again as a broadcaster that my sense to and my responsibility to the audience is Extreme entertainment um I want these people to be happy uh I don't know what's going on in their lives uh I don't know uh what kind of day they had um I don't know you know you know who they are and what ST state of mind that they're in but I know that I want to be damn sure that when they tune in that they are having a great time not a good time a great time and I I still kind of have that mindset of Dave when when the ratings started to slip for Dave and you could see him start sort to frustrate when he would have a bad day you knew he had a bad day it was visible on the broadcast that he had a bad day and I'm very much like that um my difference is is I will usually turn it around into entertainment somehow right um for example you know I work with a lot of small schools and small schools have to employ students to run the cameras and the students are sometimes awake and sometimes they're not away so if I feel that brooding sense uh you know I'll make it entertaining you know I'll say okay now we're looking at the ceiling folks and how many tiles can we count because our camera person is asleep I'm up to 40 how many do you have at home and things like that when I'm when I am aggravated that the broadcast is not going how I want it to right but still keeping in mind that okay what's my responsibility to the audience in this point and at this moment and that is to make sure that they're having a good time what uh what sports are your favorite like what sports have you done and what's your favorite ah you know um I'll do anything for money um um I think as we learn more and we discover more about football and what it does to the brain uh I've kind of pulled back from that a little bit um I I just I've I've got all these stupid ethics in my head um so I I I it's it's hard to make that justification because I do a lot of soccer too and soccer is very dangerous there's no helmets in soccer and there's people's heads are colliding all the time in soccer people don't really realize that um because you know 90% of it is so boring but the 10% is very violent um and that could cause real harm too but uh but as far as favorites you know I really enjoy basketball um basketball has been a part of my life for uh my whole life uh it's something my friends and I uh the uh speaking of football he'll love this uh head coach of the Arizona Cardinals Jonathan Ganon was one of my great buddies growing up and he was I thought he would be an NBA guy and he's an NFL he's a head coach in the NFL I never saw that coming but he's a huge basketball fan and he and I and my other friends from grade school would Bond over that and and so I really love basketball in the way that you love hockey y um and then I also love baseball I don't get to broadcast a lot of baseball but I love baseball because you can really be goofy with baseball you can kind of do whatever you want with baseball because there's so much downtime that it's just great fun um but I don't have any that you know uh are not favorites I I don't know a lot of sports I'm not a big person you know I don't understand water polo I don't think I could broadcast that effectively same thing with golf um volleyball I really really enjoy because volleyball is a lot like basketball it's very fast-paced and entertaining to me so uh I like to do vol as well but basketball is my love you have signature uh sayings bits things like that like I think about some of my favorite hockey broadcasters sometimes they would have a catchphrase for a certain player or a certain play or a certain uh event within the sporting uh sporting world do you have anything like that yeah uh no you know I really I really don't I uh I'm looking at myself in this thing boy I just look tired I look like I need I didn't get that nap beforehand and are looking off well that's now to know you're good you're good you know what I like to do honestly uh with my broadcasts and I always give credit where credit is due when I do this I I I uh I will use phrases from my mentors um I mentioned my disdain for ESPN um one of the reasons why I have a disdain is because they're just creating these Factory style broadcasts we grew up uh here in the Midwest Harry KY uh Jack Buck uh Ernie Harwell there were so many great broadcasting personalities Vince scly over on the coast I and there's there there's so many more think about Bob uker or guys like that like I mean yeah and he's still doing it he's still out there I love it but yeah uh clevelanders have mixed feelings about Bob uker uh there was debate when the uh Cleveland at that time Indians were in the world series that Bob uker and Bob Costa had a Yankees bias I don't think these guys care I in fact I know they don't because I don't care people think I do I don't I don't care who wins I care my check clears um but but there was individuality so I always try to incorporate some of my heroes into my broadcast uh Joe Tate from the Cleveland Cavaliers would always uh when he was describing a play uh dribbles into the circle into the lane puts it up puts and you could describe exactly you could visualize what was happening and I always use that and then if I have a timeout and I've got time to kill I'll say by the way when I said this it was it was Joe Tate he was from the Cleveland Cavaliers and and a wonderful person and and a fabulous broadcaster and I steal so much from the West Coast guys too uh Vince scly and uh Kurt gouty I don't think is a West Coast guy but I steal from him too but trying to pay homage to the Legends because this younger generation just does not know who these people are anymore and uh again being that historian of broadcasting I want to keep that going so yeah that's that's my roundabout way of saying that all my sayings are stolen for people Mike and I'm very proud proud ripping them off I think that's uh um Ain sorin in in I think it it might have been an episode of The West Wing now I think about it or in one of his shows um and the thing I love about sorcin is whenever he had a writer for a character I think it was westwing because he had speech writers in that show um the quote that he puts into their mouth was U um you know a a good writer a good writer steals uh lifts things every once in a while a great writer Flatout plagiarizes the good stuff and and and and I think the same thing same thing can be said in broadcasting um as well me iron sharpens iron right and and influences are a good thing like I would love like for example to bring it back to Letterman I love how he brings out old lines you know like he'll bring out a line from the 40s that someone somebody said or or or you know old Carson I was watching yeah go ahead I was watching one of his clips and he talked about Lux Radio Theater and this was like in 1997 998 it was one of those clips that the Letterman people posted and I said who is going to get this reference but but us yeah uh he did one in his very final um his final goodbye the last show May 20th of of of 2015 he was going through and he was thanking everybody and this is like at the end he's about to do the final thank you and good night and introduce the fu fighters and so he's going through the list of people or whatever and he gets to the part where they talk about the Ed Sullivan Theater being renovated I don't even understand this reference but I know it because he talked about how many rats were in the Ed San theater and he said oh and and by the way the rats they were they were stoop shouldered now I have no idea where that came from or what but I do know I talked to sheeky before he's like oh oh yeah it's an old reference like I I forget he he told me where it was but I I can't recall it but like even his final address to everybody he puts pulls out a reference from who God knows where and and and and does that I love that's one of the things I love about Dave doing things like that yeah he is just he's so much more intelligent than he gives himself credit for that was one of the reasons why I knew I couldn't do what he did his vocabulary is just so sharp and even when they do their little silly things on the barber gain show now um he still got that at 70 whatever he is now yeah yeah 77 yeah he pulls out he pulls out words that uh you know I have no idea what they mean still but I want to know what they mean um yeah you know and and uh okay so I want to go back uh for a second here and talk about uh dad bringing you up with Letterman as a kid I certainly can relate to that um and and and one of the things that uh I've tried to I've tried to relay to some of the people who made the show like like there are people because the people and I think we talked about this when when I appeared on your show but there's this element within the staffers themselves of its humbleness to a fault because you know I'll say something like this show shaped me like I I try and make a point of every single time I run into a staffer um that I'm able to you know if it's the first time I say hey thank you for helping form me into the odd human that I am I'll say a sentence like that and it's 100% legitimate and from the heart because I'm a little kid watching what they busted their ass to get on the TV every night and it was odd like the word Dave likes to use is sometimes many times it was isoteric like and and it you know our cement is wet at that point really really wet like like oh yeah this is the greatest in the world and and your dad intentionally did that with you to create a bonding moment with him but then you're seeing this oddness and folks with uh you know you're you're you're I think you're an 81 baby right uh or an 82 baby 82 baby okay so so you had a lot of late show and people say to me all the time oh I you know late night you know it had all the strange stuff or the odd stuff or whatever um you didn't see a lot of the old late night stuff back then but you grew up with late show a lot of odd stuff in that show too especially considering it was 11:30 show yeah uh you know late night was odd in a different way it started uh from The Genius of meril Marco who was extremely art art forward and and I love her for that and I love everything I'm I'm going to interrupt you right now just in case we won't get back to it do you read her substack no I didn't know she had I just gave you an Incredible Gift her substack is so entertaining because many if not most of them are text and then her art like graphic novel art that has nothing to do with superheroes and the art is hilarious and she's using it and the wit is and it's everything combined and she puts out one every week one every couple weeks whatever I just give you a gift Mero Marco's substack is incredible and I highly recommend it to everybody here so anyway please continue I'm so in I'm so in love with Marl Marco and uh she's an artist and and those are the ones that I attract to a to a fault but y but yeah Marl Marco did wonderful things um and then Steve O'Donnell did wonderful things but for me coming in around that time and just the energy and the wackiness from uh you know the bay and Thomas and and all of the things that they did and Jerry Mulligan I knew I can I knew every Friday night I was miserable High School I hated high school but I knew every Friday night that Jerry was gonna come out in a dress or he was gonna do a dance or he was gonna do something stupid and God oh mighty Jerry you got me through high school with that stupid nonsense my favorite was Janet Reno but I just watched one the other day they just posted uh where he was uh one of the dance one of the Irish dance things that was popular around that time they did a and he was dancing uncomfortably and I mean it was just it was silly and uh there was a point as Dave would say let's all enjoy tasty beverage but um there there was a point there was a point uh when The Late Show started when he was on top of the world and uh the comedy was great don't get me wrong and having all the celebrities was great and that Madonna interview was great and you know everybody was talking about it and then he went through this uh I call it when I'm sad my emo phase and that's when you know Lena started to win in the ratings it was clearly affecting him uh it was affecting the show um and that came at a time when um I was uh 14 13 14 and brooding myself so I connected with Dave on that level to I referenced it earlier um and then they kind of got back to it and they got wacky and that's when I really think they really found their footing again like I said Carter Bay Craig Thomas love those guys so much yeah my actually with the new season of How I Met Your Mother I'm trying to get them both on at the same time actually that's going to be a that'll be a lot of fun to have them on here because they've both been guests they've both been guests already and we've said let's come back I want to have them on at the same time and now it's a it's a really nice time to do that with the with the new season coming out speaking of you know speaking of guest I haven't watched the Shannon one I I can't wait to watch that because that's the other thing that Letterman did as he got older and realized hey I don't want to be running around uh all the time how can I still do a show yep and it became very consistent and predictable in the best possible way y uh at a time in my life where I really needed that uh predictability every night I was a mess uh in my in my 20s and this was around the time that the show was ending and and and you know knowing that sh if I saw Shannon's name pop up and Alan cter announced her I knew okay it's it's either summertime or it's Christmas uh darling love every single year that was part of our TR Christmas tradition the guest the pies thing I mean my God I see those things now and it brings it it literally brings it it brings out heavy emotions in me because uh those were such uh consistent things and they were for us and they were for the show and that's one of the things he did so well uh and the show did so well well when they quit caring about beating Leno they said okay let's let's make this for the people who are watching yep and it and it became something really really consistent and reliable and wonderful and fun I could not agree more um all of those you know Shannon you're gonna enjoy Shannon's episode a lot there's there's there's a couple little surprising tidbits that come out of it that people are going to be that people already are um when they get back I love I love that my show is our show here is a slowburn um I love that we don't Market it I love that it's just when people find it and then I'll get i'll get odd reach outs from an episode that happened a year and a half ago like I'll get odd reach outs about you know Steve O'Donald part two or or or or different different things this is one that there's going to be a lot of as people find it it's like a little gift because Shannon is just electric and she's bright and she's just got this amazing Charisma I can hear you or you okay you okay right there I see I'm fine it's a it's uh you know if you don't want to work for ES PN ladies and gentlemen that's fine you can follow your own path like me but you're not getting the Beats you're getting the dollar store buds that don't quite stay in but they that's the tradeoff they look phenomenal um but one thing with Shannon is is is she said when the segment was created the whole thing was the idea of giving Dave a place to go other than the desk but like you said you know by this point he's in his his his 50s or his maybe even his 60s he's not running around the street unless you know Billy anner can only come on every once in a while and make him run around the street or whatever he can't do it anymore so let's find ways to get Dave out from behind the desk and this is a like that segment was so so so just to your point that's exactly right it was it's such a um a predictable thing for me one of the things that I love to watch because it was something that was a hold over from the late night days was every single time he brought on one of his old friends like like like Tom dreon or Jeff Alman or some of these other folks who would who would come on the show you know Tim tomerson doing the the the tales from the old west which is just to me one of the greatest I loved that reoccurring what the hell is this bit and and it's and it's us you know it's his delivery was so perfect and Tim I'm trying to get Tim on the show here too um you know that that's the stuff that I loved that like you said it was the comfort food uh listening to Jay Thomas talk about the the do the Lone Ranger story every year you know as part of the that that wind up to the holiday season um just that the stuff that that we're in our formative years as this is all happening you know the earlier versions of this you know and it helped form us formulative form the're the same thing it helped form us like I have a weird I'm I'm a financial planner by trade and I do not fit in in many respects because you know you've got all these conventional people around and I'm kind of looking around and wanting to like I'm wanting to take the straight greatness and just kind of make it go A skew a little bit here and and it's in me like whether I'm with my granddaughter a parent teacher interview or wherever I am it's this thing and and and I have to blame DS and and Company for it I'm pretty sure like but I'm so grateful for it because I feel like I'm viewing Life in Color or at least a different set of colors and and and and it's more present and whatnot and and so every time I talk to one of these people I thank them for it it is it formed who I am yeah and uh some of that for me has been good some of it uh maybe not so good because uh if you choose to become a broadcaster I I really think it can choose you um because you have to be a certain type uh Dave talks about therapy and and finally getting into therapy we are and and Gary shanling did such an amazing job putting this in front of our face what it's really like behind the scenes with the Larry Sanders show but uh you know everybody who works in broadcasting if if you're going to talk to a lot of broadcasters this summer you might need some Xanax by the time nights through because if they're worth their weight and gold they are uh you know we're a neurotic bunch of people really and truly um but it's that neurosis and it's that uh maybe a place of of you know depth that makes the show what it is uh and and made Dave make the show what it is because going back to what I said I take this very seriously I'm very goofy and like I said people really do call me unprofessional all the time uh people within the industry my audience yeah no these are these are these are my colleagues in my financial planning office same thing I all every every week there's not a week that goes by before somebody doesn't roll their eyes at me for how I'm dressed or with something my office or whatever yeah okay so anyways I can relate to what you're say yeah it's it's it's exactly that uh you know there are people in broadcasting nowadays who quite frankly don't know anything about what they're doing it's just uh it's it's sanitized and and it's become corporatized but for me uh you know it's this it's this neediness I think uh in a way to just going back to how I started talking about it you know I I feel like it's my responsib ility to the audience uh to be good and and to be on and to be entertaining for them and the feedback that I get from my audience is is almost universally positive and I form those same kind of bonds with my audience in a much smaller and more personal way than Letterman did with his fans but uh the real broadcasters the people who really care about this industry uh are some brooding dark dark and Disturbed people and I think part of the reason why we have this need to say okay I've got to entertain these people is because we don't want people to feel what we feel we want them to have that joy and that entertainment and and and that's something that I always kind of think about uh you know within the industry itself and and I know that was within Dave and that was one of the things like I said when he was going through his troubles is when I really started to get into them uh and that was a time when a lot of people were tuning out but I was tuning in deeper because I said I get this guy I understand this this is this is something that I can I can relate to and there's a lot of broadcasters who I I don't know if they've ever gone to this thought process or not but uh you know a lot of people my age who were working in broadcasting I bet have the same the same time frame as I did yep I uh I appreciate what you just said there because I I can certainly relate to it in in in many respects a you know it's funny Millennials and and and and gen zers or whatever they look at our generation they look at Gen X like and and it's so funny because I remember Gen X used to look like look at the Baby Boomers and and criticize and be snarky and be sarcastic and apathetic and and all these things and now we all look at the Baby Boomers because they don't die ever sure yeah no they certainly don't they still they boy they love to take that Spotlight and just hold it fixated on them don't they oh the comments but we but but you know these Generations that look at us and they don't realize that back then no you know what like like we gave birth to grunge like you know what I'm saying like like like we were rebellious too and to me Dave was one of those guys he was those those people that stood out that that that that got us to follow that you talking about it in broadcasting is very interesting um I I dig that uh I dig that point of view and that perspective very much I'm super curious now that you've kind of made the jump to podcasting um the difference is obviously the topics are different you know you're coming in uh inquisitive versus I'm going to set the stage to everything that's going on there's one other there's one other part I want to ask you about as well just about you and then we can talk as much Dave as we want is is at some point uh for Dave you know he went to Chase the Dream and the idea of falling back on a kind of a writer position or something like that he had the background in broadcasting would tell people I'm a writer that sort of a thing you became a broadcaster but you've always had this it seems to me you've always had this entrepreneurial streak as well and um for me I had to become an entrepreneur the way that I became an entrepreneur was by chasing a dream I wanted to chase a dream to to do something that was kind of how I gave myself permission to break out of the uh Monday to Friday 9 to5 kind of a kind of a a fold um you you've had businesses and started your own personal things your own side hustles that sort of a thing where did that come from did you always have that it's it comes from that rebelliousness honestly um you know my goal was to be in radio I was going to be I'm I'm not a good host I'm a good uh I'm good at playing off of people um so that's what I do really well so I thought you know this was back in like the 2003 to 2006 radio when everything was extreme you know Limp Biscuit and and shock jocks and things like that so at the time that's what I thought okay I could be the wacky side guy um and and you know chip in and and that is what I did with radio for a couple of years and then uh I go back to what Jimmy Kimmel always said about his time in radio that the worst people you ever met in radio it was in radio and that rang true the other thing that happened to me was a Great Recession uh the economy tanked for uh those of us my age I literally had to blow up my life and I was taking minimum wage jobs just to have something to do um which turned out to be a good thing because I had do nothing jobs that I didn't care about but it gave me a couple of years to say okay the plan is not going to be the plan anymore dude what are we gonna do yeah and the reality is uh there's a little bit of fear I think ingrained to people my age because of what the recession did to us y so I said to myself first I don't want to rely on anybody but myself again now you have clients you have to if you're a financial planner and you're not delivering that six to eight% uh you're not going to have clients anymore but you know you are you are the guy um so so you know you always have responsibility to people but I don't have I don't have a boss telling me uh if my work is done that I can't go home or things like that so it's my dad was very rebellious my dad once told me in third grade that if the teacher ever says you can't go to the bathroom when you have to go to the bathroom you get up in front of that class and you pee right on the carpet my dad said that be in third grade so that instills a little the system um so I have that and I think that was natural the fear of uh the fear of getting another job and having to get fired again motivated me yeah um and the realization that if I was going to do broadcasting the way that I was going to do it I was wasn't going to make good money and I needed to figure something out that I had passion for that I like to do so um everything that I do is a part of my business I'm not gonna Pro I'm not here to promote my business but everything that I do is related somewhat to what I enjoy about broadcasting so video production um marketing stuff uh things that allow me still to be creative or at times things that allow me to be mundane so that I can be creative at 7 pm when the basketball game starts uh and I've just kind of been able to formulate it into this this life for myself that is it's uh it's it's it's fun it's a lot of fun but you have to really want to go this route you have to enjoy the invoices as much you as you enjoy the high from a comment from a fan who says you're doing a great job you have to enjoy those two things equally yeah um and you have to really really want to do it and you have to be able to survive when things go wrong because lots of things go wrong when you're on your own lots of things you do a lot of stupid things uh at the beginning that you either learn from or you get scared and you collapse but again my whole thing is not relying on other people so uh every time I make a mistake I can learn from it uh versus if I have a boss and that boss makes a mistake and he doesn't learn from it the company is crippled so it's it's rebelliousness and fear which is very interesting that kind of formulated and just passions uh all three of those things led to me uh doing it how I do it now um and a and a very you know easy through line uh an argument could be made for for for for Dave gave us a blueprint for that he decided not to be the conventional weatherman he decided not to take that job in Minnesota you know and you know for the same money but to get them out there around there the way a lot of radio guys did or a lot of broadcast people did they'd go to different markets or whatever and hopefully they start growing that way in the conventional system no I'm G to go I'm going to go tell everybody I'm a writer I'm gonna go to you know because that's more palpable I'm going to go to California uh I'm G to try standup just to learn the discipline just to get the skill under my belt because you know my My ultimate job is one that I don't even like saying out loud because it's so outlandish that uh that that this could ever even happen you mentioned it when we talked on the other the other day the rebellious nature uh uh about Dave you know game shows he automat he he he tanked he tanked a bunch of game shows I've tanked things before too yep oh I love hearing that see that's that that's that rebellious thing and and and and uh go ahead the the interesting thing when we talk about rebellion in this way is what Dave did with show was flip it upside down um there's a lot of people it's it's it's different at different stages of your life when you're in your 20s uh you think that like Dave said with with the morning show they thought they were going to be TV's great savior um you think that you're going to not only disrupt but you're G to topple you're gonna take down yes um I hear that a lot from younger people nowadays that uh what they have to learn is you have to work within the system you have to work through the system and that's the thing that Dave did really well he did it his own way but he did it with the corporate sponsors and he did it uh in part because Johnny wouldn't let him do other things y um so you know the best way to make change honestly is really within the system and David Letterman o oddly enough is a great example of that absolutely well I mean GA gathering the the the you know for lack of a better term the power that he did to be able to go over to CBS own two hours in in in in late night you know for 20s something years and basically have I don't want to say you know unlimited control but pretty darn close um you know we've had some of the network people on this show and and and you know they they were following whatever worldwide pants said and and that is remarkable um when you think about it and then of course being the gateway to the accessibility to the Late Night show and and and and all of these late night hosts that exists right now uh you know better or worse as a direct result of of of the the you know the the clearing in the in the jungle that Dave and his band of maching Wheeling wielding um you know crazy people um carved that path out and and and changed the entire industry and it's funny you know you and I see this we note this but you say that to a lot of these people and I mean I haven't had the chance to say it to Dave but you know Jerry Seinfeld said it to him um on his appearance on my next guest you know he said you changed TV forever and didn't want to hear it didn't want to hear until Jerry said well I'm not going to say for the better and then they was like all right fine fine but they did and and and here we are having a discussion about it you know here in 2024 and how it's affected Us and how it's it's it's caused us that rebelliousness you know again wet cement um but then this is where I find it so enjoyable because there is no better time this week no offense to my family no offense to my work there's no better time this week that I have when I'm doing something then you and I are doing this right now it's the greatest thing and I and I I can imagine calling a game is one thing that that does kind of scratch some of that uh what I'm talking about now I'm curious does the podcast scratch it the same way is it is it uh is it similar is there Joy there uh is it a different type okay fair enough good that's a great promo for the podcast you should check it out ladies and gentlemen the host hates it the reality of the podcast is I need something out there that tells people that I could do something I can sit and like we're doing here and have an actual conversation with people because nobody believes it oh you're a play byplay guy what could you possibly do with a show or or anything like that the podcast uh I have found to be a bit of a choice okay um I've really enjoyed talking to some people though uh you were a great guest uh uh Chrissy who does uh repurposes alltime radio shows was a fabulous guest she was the actually the first person IAL to yeah um but she got bumped twice for you and then for um uh for for other people but uh but but the podcast is is really just it's it's a resume almost to me and uh the first season is coming to a close I'm going to try to get to 10 episodes yep uh and then uh you know once the sport season kicks up there'll there'll be a pause and then next summer I'll see if I still need to scratch that itch or not but I I'm just I'm glad something is out there I don't I one of the reasons why I've been dismayed by it is I don't think it's very good so I had this whole goal to you know present myself as something other than a sports broadcaster and I'm not happy with it so that kind of sticks with you but um when you do these shows you you you just have to do them and if the audience likes it and the audience responds to it great but you have to keep going even if they don't and try to be better for the next one every talk show host on the planet including Dave uh says that you know you just have to keep going and try to be better and learn from from your mistakes yeah but yeah the podcast is is I do not have the same passion for it as the sports um but I would like to do something other than Sports I just don't quite know what that is yet and maybe I should at 42 years old um I also will say that if all I ever end up doing is sports that's fine that's a that's a great life I've I've built a life for myself here um a profession Al I'm extremely happy with uh and people are extremely happy with me so it's not like I'm trying to chase something I just uh you know I like to do different things I'm very much like Craig Ferguson in a way where you know craigy gets so bored so easily and he gets rambunctious and he's got to do other things and that's kind of how I am um and and you know I just uh if it happens it happens but also don't feel like I got to blow things up the way that Craig sometimes I think does blow things up um you know I don't feel that need I love being a sports broadcaster yeah it's so funny hearing your perspective on this Chris and and I think you have the right perspective in the sense of of of of the humbleness part and and whether or not you know that's a direct Letterman uh reference or not the self-deprecation I I love your show now I listen I'm a I've been a podcast fan from the from near the beginning I didn't Corolla was okay um but it was Kevin Smith who who who really and he kind of started around the same time Kevin Smith was really early he was a real early adopter of this stuff and and and so I I enjoyed that I I enjoyed Rogan almost n i w say from the beginning but within the first hundred episodes anyway um I listened to a lot of podcasts and and and sometimes they're uh uh ones that just you know limited series ones and whatnot but I have a lot of podcasts that are in my ether and and and it's the vast majority of of the stuff I I consume is podcasts have screwed me over for TV series like hey have you seen this one no I haven't yet someone said to me the other day you seen Scandal no I haven't seen Scandal I uh I watched the bear late like really late Game of Thrones really late part of it because podcasts are kind of my thing I love your podcast like love with a capital l uh I think you're fantastic at it I think it's a genius premise a podcast about podcast so you're getting to pick the brains of all these people with all this different experiences from all these different Vantage points and I loved every I love every single episode you've you've put out there um I think you are fantastic you ask because of the the the the experience that you've had the entrepreneur one like I love you picking the brains of guys who have startups and and things that are you know starting to Blossom for them and whatnot because you can come in with your entrepreneurial experience and bring that to the table but also you're you you don't leave the Layman behind you do a really really good job of making these conversations accessible uh to to to the Mike you're making me sick here yeah I know I know I know but it's a I just got to tell you it's a really great episode like like like you know I I really really like your show a lot I love the premise and I think you do a really really good job with it um and you got a good voice I agit I'm just I'm I'm agitated because uh my personal life is going very poorly and and I'm kind of in the stages of like total collapse with my personal life and I'm bringing that into the podcast and that's really what's irritating yeah well great you love it my heart's about to explode Mike but I'm glad you're enjoying it no when I listen when I listen to the episodes and I do listen to them oh isn't that painful isn't that the worst yeah it's the worst it really is oh my God but I can tell when I haven't slept for days and when I'm well rested and there's a massive difference in my view in the quality now again going back to that chaos um you know I really love Jack par yeah uh Jack par i' probably relate to maybe as much as Dave because he was very much chaos and when things were chaotic around him and he would get mad and things like that I loved that that is great TV to me that that what is happening here and Jack par was so wonderful at that while being so uh for the time very hip and cool although if you heard David lerman's story about going to his house it's hysterical but anyways um now I lost my train of thought the chaos the chaos I don't know maybe the chaos in my personal life that I am bringing into the podcast is good and I just can't realize it because it's making me miserable but that's kind of what I guess I I hope is what's happening um as a listener it makes me it makes me relate to you more like like and and uh you know I get your I get your phone number so it's easy for me to text you hey brother hope things are going better this week you know and and you do that too by the way Mike really really has been doing that he started as a guest on my show and he said we're going to be friends and I've said that to a few of my guests and then I haven't heard from them again but for Mike he literally does he is a wonderful kind man who uh I do feel like I'm your friend now it's 100% 100% and and and and for me like you putting that in there it's what all of the podcasts that I love who have a a host uh you know as opposed to you know where it's a specific subject or fiction or anything like that like I'm saying where it's a where it's a back and forth where there's a talk element to it the the hosts that are vulnerable and bring in their stuff are the ones that I gravitate towards too like I love that about Dave Dave I love every single interview he ever did uh love them all like like from Barbara Walters even the ones uh you know the the pl the more plasticky ones um you know watching him with Bob cess back in the day okay and you watch and you watch the one on Don Gill's Channel where he has it where it's the entire feed including like between commercial breaks and stuff like that yes like that is one of the coolest guys I've ever I've ever seen in my life and and and I mean I started I smoke I smoke cigars I've got a humidor upstairs with 75 Cuban cigars in it and I always because I just thought it was the coolest thing in the world watching Dave not give a about what kasus was saying and holding a cigar like I love I love the vibe I love all of that and he did to take this back to the point we were talking about Dave did some interviews every now and then but the vast majority of his career he chose anything that was happening let's put it on the show let's talk about it in the show let's do it that way and think that what we're talking about here is another kind of version of that obviously not nearly as as as awesome as Dave and all that again Neil Brennan in the mothership right uh Chris Chris and Mike in the in the Escape pod but I think that the sentiment is the same and I think that's one of the reasons why I connect I didn't connect with any of your sports stuff I've never I'd never heard of you before that but I've listened to every episode a couple of them twice this the one on the the guy who was the entrepreneur um yeah he's stuff oh like like I was mad at him I was really mad at him at after I did that interview because I thought he was doing too much self-promoting but uh when I went back and listened to it I was like wow this is maybe the best one we did oh man and it's really interesting to have that perspective when you're a broadcaster and and you do something that you think is terrible and then you go back and it's like oh no uh Katie Mack who I also loved to death I thought that was I thought that was best one we did and then I went back and listened to it and I was like I don't like this at all probably because you were because you were so vulnerable right you didn't like it because I I was not in good shape during that during that episode yeah and see the listener who doesn't know you doesn't know that you know that like okay you want to know you want how God has a sense of humor you know man plans God laughs I'll tell you here's how uh the guy who desperately wanted the Letterman podcast forever like from the beginning like before Letterman went off the air this guy here who wanted it probably more than anybody to be able to come in and listen once a week to a to to a podcast devoted to anything around the topic of David Letterman uh I'm I was that guy now imagine being that guy and you have amazing conversations with odonnell or young or some of these wi some of these older people around Don Giller for that matter all that and the content is there that you want but the thing that breaks it up is you and it's terrible like it's it's it's a form of hell that's God laughing like crazy because I cannot stand to go back but I do because I love what the guest is saying so much and that that is so I'm in my own version of Hell thank you for listening to me um you know the doctor is in uh just invoice me for the like it's so I hear where you're coming from I I'm live I live it every day but I've had to say screw it and and just let it go and I'm going to try and do the best that I possibly can and uh you know it's it's again going back to what is the goal and if the goal is to try to entertain people you have to do that at and at all cost and that means you have to bring a part of yourself into it and and I mean some of the later Letterman uh memories some of the best episodes or was you know or some of the best rants he had about like the Eagle song and trying to get the Eagle song and you know just stuff like that ra the whole show I love that yeah Y and you know so so expressing your frustrations and and being who you are is really really important in broadcasting and again I just can't emphasize that enough because so many people just want to be a robot yeah yeah absolutely um you know it's funny two times I saw the show live uh once was a month before he retired once was I believe it was in ' 04 and both episodes that I was on I don't I'm I'm certain a top top 10 was written I never got to see a top 10 live and and and I'm certain a top 10 was was written but both episodes were just after the Hall of Fame the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame I should say and Dave sat there lenting well words he yeah Dave Dave sat there lamenting the fact that Paul and the band are not in the yeah I will I absolutely will uh lamenting the fact that uh Paul and the band were not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and was so angry about it oh there we go oh Adam there you go enjoy enjoy every sandwich there all right let me hang it back up no no no no that's amazing so I wanted to I wanted to create for Robert's last year I wanted to create a t-shirt that just simply said the hello Deli Enjoy Every Sandwich to me putting those things together would have been a really neat little little mash up like if you know you know kind a thing I thought that would a really cool thing but it never happened rert sold the deli instead so um but anyway you know seeing him talk about real life stuff the story about the bear uh you know the thing that happened you know and I mean obviously the the the rougher stuff too but uh like my favorite run in all and I love it all including I want to I want to talk to about my next guest here uh in a second before we uh before we we we turn this one off but um I my favorite run of Letterman in history was in 2010 when late shift 2 was happening and and you know and and every single night like every single night and and I mean they had prepared comedy pieces that are sitting there now we're not getting to them don't know if they ever did if it's in the vault somewhere I want to see them like oh my God like like I talked to some of the writers like I talked to Steve Young about some of the stuff that's been produced that has never seen the light of day there's so much of it Chris like bet yeah like you know but but again love that stuff it's amazing uh the bay Thomas stuff they would produce all that stuff is great great but when Dave would ignore that and go off on a tangent that's my favorite that's my favorite moment in all of TV that week when he did that and he did that every single night in 2010 uh it was wonderful and it must have been so again for the rebel to to to have that justification that everything worked out you didn't get the Tonight Show but everything worked out and that must have been just so gratifying and poor Conan well poor Conan he got like $30 million to leave I mean give me $30 million and I will be up in the woods uh somewhere and you will literally never see me nobody ever will again as long as Amazon can get there um but geez but you know for somebody who's rebellious somebody who's taking a chance to have that affirmation to have it all come back like ah it must have been so relieving and you can see the joy in him and to Dave's credit you know he did a great job with Conan when Conan came on the show just like he did with John Stewart when John Stewart show got cancelled and he kind of took him under his wing and had him on the production company kept him employed while you while you know before The Daily Show happened um Dave's really really good at that and uh I know he had a lot of fun with that we all had a lot of fun with that but the the the heart was there you know uh for for Dave and oh my God but you're right EX exact a perfect example of just going off the rails the way that he would um there's an I'm waiting for them to post this the story about the bear getting into the cabin I think it's on I think it's there I think it's it's on there but there was a Family Guy animator who created a cartoon of it I'll send it to you I've got it you got it oh thank God somebody if you go back into the Facebook group the Letterman podcast Facebook group and God damn it go there right now um I'm not Faceook not you I know you're not I know you're not uh I we did post it um Vinnie fav uh was a part of that made it happen so so so Vinnie fali between Howard Stern and Le was he on Family Guy was I right about I think there was a uh I don't oh that's a good question I should Askin we should ask Vinnie that actually um but but but uh anyway he ended up sending it to it wasn't chy that sent it to me it was him um and we posted it we did post it in the Facebook group way back but maybe I maybe I'll find it and post it again that cartoon was fantastic for folks who have never seen this cartoon y The dog bow the name of Regis on it that's just that's the the whole story is is great and a lot of Letterman fans will know the the bear story but the animation and the dog bowl with Regis on it that was a perfect touch yeah it was it was awesome it was every bit as good as uh you know like like the TV fun house that we do on Saturday Night Live Michael's little cartoons and things like that it was it felt it felt a little little like that um it was just it was it such a great little little thing I I'll find it I've got it somewhere I've got it on a hard drive or something and I'll I'll get it to you um I'm super curious Chris what your take is because it's funny talking to some of the folks either who worked for Dave or or were close to him and then talking to them about my next guest and they're not as um they're not as connected to it they get around to it some of them watch it immediately that kind of a thing but uh many don't I'm curious what your take is on my next guest I couldn't hear for a second there Mike just because I live in downtown downtown Cleveland uh you know you got to deal with some Sirens every once in a while but yeah that's really interesting to hear that though that they have that feeling because I have that feeling too and um I'm sure Dave would probably say hey it's just something to get out of the house you know what do I care um at this this point in his life at least I hope he would say that uh there have been some that I really really enjoyed uh the Jay-Z one was awesome it's one of my favit abs and him and Letterman talk about infidelity in a very vulnerable way uh was was really cool to watch but um some of them oh I did like the lizza one too uh just watching her perform with a flute like y who the hell knew that y um so there are some good ones uh but ever since they started posting on the Letterman Channel that's kind of where my attention lies um I'm interested to see I kind of pick and choose my next guest there's some guests who I just am not interested in I love the Howard do you one do you have a do you have one that you've that uh that as an example I skipped that one intentionally because I wasn't interested in the guest um not off the top in my head because I probably forgot kardashan Billy ish oh yeah yeah yeah okay Kanye West I think was one of them y um fascinating they're both they're both fascinating and it's funny but you know it's you gota it's it's I'm not saying that they're necessarily accessible but one of the things that I do love about it is Dave being interested in let's take Billy ish for example you've got this person who's a pop singing icon right now and Dave you can tell there's genuine curiosity like genuine curiosity as to what it is that makes this this person tick what it is that has connected this person to so many millions of people tens of millions of people um and and and has the Everyman perspective and it's funny and it's the opposite of Johnny Carson Johnny Carson was like and Dave probably feels this way that Carson did but like everybody in Show Business is is gone you know because he thought about you know the the sinatras and the all people like that right the Jack Benny's and you know and and and and and he didn't get it anymore interview doing Tom Cruz at the at that time um you know and but Dave has gone the opposite way and he's gotten curious about the people who are in the in the world's eye at this point here and comes at it with an every man perspective the Miley Cyrus episode that just came out is fantastic I think you'll gravitate more to the Charles Barkley won um I love Sir Charles did you see that episode I honestly no I haven't watched any of them but I am excited for I I like Miley Cyrus I'm fascinated by Miley Cyrus um she's got that that kind of brooding artist quality to her that I find extremely attractive so I I am looking forward to that one she's a tortured Soul you could tell and and I love I love getting to know those people um you know what's interesting I thought about the Malala one and I was like I didn't get a lot out of that one either and and I feel terrible for saying that this girl is just trying to raise awareness and do the right things and and all of those things but um I don't know I I feel like I get enough of that with the news and and I know what's going on in the world and and it's just not something that I want uh for my entertainment um but you know she's you know takes nothing away from her of course I'm rooting for her and she's in danger and she's fighting for her life and and all of these things just to give herself a voice that's a heroic person um but as far as entertainment goes you know I'd rather watch uh you know Jerry as Janet Reno that's how I get entertainment I love that you love Mulligan so much uh I'm gonna send him a note and let him let him know because you mentioned it in our episode too like like and and he is oh he's a hell of a guy effortlessly funny like I'm just saying is he like seven feet tall too he's big man he's he's got pres uh Mulligan's got presents for sure like even at you know this age that's like it just but oh my God like effortlessly like it just pours out of him just him existing pours out of him uh we did an episode with him and Jeff Martin at the same time and it was so fun to watch those two play off each other and and and there was three or four times watching it back again I have to watch it back even though I hate myself watching myself on there um three or four times throughout that episode he made jokes that nobody got and it was just so funny watching them just roll out of him and and and they just went right over all of our heads you know know it was it was just uh Jerry Mulligan yeah shout out to Jerry Mulligan um this is why we do the show right here it's a celebration of the greatest body of broadcast work in history that's our tagline and um I'm really really grateful to uh to have you here today uh we're going to move towards the close and I don't I'm open-ended as to how long the close will take um other moments that you loved other things that you want to get out there before we do move to the close um anything anything come to mind um you know it it's it's really interesting how uh just little moments uh take us to where we are in our lives and it's fun to kind of look back I'm I'm somebody who lives in the past and I live in the future and I'm very rarely in the present uh this whole time we've been doing this interview I've been thinking about when's this going to be posted what are the comments going to be like who's going to actually watch me uh who cares about Friday and nobody and nothing that's the answer to those questions Friday and don't worry that's exactly what's in my head Friday and don't worry about it that's all it's just really interesting going back to you know 1995 1994 sitting on the couch with my dad watching David Letterman and here I am 20 well no 30 years later talking about a broadcasting career talking to my new friend in Canada who's also a letterman fan on this uh computer device that allows us to connect this way it's uh I'm gonna turn into Bill Walton for a moment here but it's just it's it's really cool to have that perspective and to see how the how you know we go around the Sun 30 times and it leads to this moment and what a beautiful thing that is and we owe it all to a a late night TV show uh that means the world to us and so many other fans and how special is that that we can have that that there's we know there's other people out there who have that too holy crap it's like you're a professional Chris man that was very well put that was very I'm not paid like one that was very well put um have you seen the new inside out yet have you ever watched inside out the Pixar movie uh my girlfriend uh I think she's still my girlfriend uh we have to check in once a week to make sure but but we watched the first one together uh she had already seen it and I loved it I just I think it's one of the I love animation first of all um and then uh just the way it was done it's brilliant it's it's really brilliant so I'm looking forward to the second one but um going out to a theater with uh people um you know I'll wait until I can uh click a couple buttons and then watch it at home where I uh have my own popcorn and my kitty cat can be on my lap yeah uh okay you feel the way that I figured you would about the first one I wasn't sure if You' hadd seen the second one yet we took our six-year-old granddaughter to it and and it was the most amazing thing uh you know after we finished watching it you know she's six and she's in the back seat and for half hour afterwards talking to us having this amazing conversation about emotions and what emotions mean and and all this sort of stuff and the second one every bit as insightful as the first one just with different emotions well the reason I I bring it up is there's a Scene It Happens two or three times it's a little running joke and I'm not spoiling anything um the the the new emotions uh are in and they're wreaking havoc inside the brain of this teenager but every once in a while the door opens and another emotion walks in and they're like we're not ready for you yet get out and that emotion is Nostalgia it's Nostalgia Nostalgia comes in and they're like ah get out of here it's this old lady and she comes in remember when Riley did this and they're get get out of here get out of here I feel like I feel like for me I feel like for me Nostalgia entered my mind way prematurely like I mean I was I was 19 years old nostalgic about stuff that happened on late night even though I'm now watching late show and and I was SNL is the same thing actually you know you watch with with with your dad um I was just talking to Jed from late nighter and and and his son and we were talking about recently there was a a sketch Kristen wig came on and did a five timers Club sketch and it was so cool talking to his son who's obsessed with SNL who's a teenager and I'm telling him about the very first five timer sketch with Tom Hanks back in the day and I was like basically his age when that first five Tim Club episode happened and and and and uh you know Paul Simon and Steve Martin were the were the people who were in The Club at that point and and right and it's just Nostalgia for this stuff um people call it silly um you know David Letterman being the first one to call it silly you know uh he said no there's nothing sacred on TV the idea that we can go okay feel that way that's why you're you please keep being you because we love it uh but y but we're going to respectfully disagree about that and choose to play and live in these moments that were formative for us that's why one of the reasons why you and I are connected that's why we're friends and I just want to say thank you for for for not just being a straight lace broadcaster thank you for being somebody that is going to be a a light bulb moment for somebody who watches or listens to you and says oh I can color Outside the Lines a little bit that rebellious spirit and and again thank you for your show I don't know 10 10 episodes this season that's fine whatever I'm subscri I'm going to listen to every single one you put out I think it's a genius premise I hope you keep at it because I don't want someone to take your premise um I was just talking to the the the founder of podm match.com which is an amazing thing and we're talking about your podcast he was immediately interested in your podcast because the concept is amazing and I hope you learned some great stuff I hope that um you know we stay connected and I just want to say thank you so much for uh for reaching out originally for me and having me as a as a guest on your show it was an incredible honor I I can't can't thank you enough Chris thank you for everything that you are well thank you Mike and thanks for having me on your podcast once again this will be the lowest rated one so I I appreciate you taking a dive for me hey no problem at all Darren Cox will be really excited about that uh I'm just kidding um don't don't uh I looked at the numbers I did that's the kind of anxious I am I was like let's see his wife got his wife's up to this point I don't know if I'm going to get there well candy people love it's funny uh the people who will will reach out after candy comes on any of the shows because she's come on I think four times now and and and it's always after a major Letterman trip of some sort um a couple of them she was on a couple of them was after the fact and she would kind of ask me about it and I get different people who reach out and watch in people who are like Letterman staffers who who are more excited for the episodes where she comes on and that says something and it's not surprising of course um but yeah no no no here's the here's the beautiful thing about this this is where you know there's a quote from uh Once Upon a Time in Mexico uh I don't know if it's Johnny de who said it but one of them said the band who wants nothing is invincible and when it comes to the numbers on this I don't care like I just I I don't good for you I care about this this is the part that I love this is the part I love and and someday if somebody comes along and says hey you know what I'm a marketing guy and I'm going to show you how you can take this from this okay great if it doesn't happen okay great because this is the part I love as opposed to the numbers and things like that so uh I want to talk to the interesting folks um who who who have an interest in this stuff as well and I always said from the very beginning there's three types of guests that we're going to have on the show obviously people who are involved with with with uh the one of the broadcasts of Letterman that's that's obviously people who are either have guessed it on the show or are tangentially connected like um here's a good example Bill Oakley who was a showrunner for The Simpsons for a long time he's coming on the show in a couple weeks here okay oh that'll be fun did yes see you get it you get it like did he ever work for Letterman no but there's a lot of very cool connections that are there and there's a lot of really cool things that we're going to be able to talk about when it comes to this stuff and the third of course is it and that kind of dovetails um to people like yourself my the Enthusiast Community people who have been affected by this stuff and and as far as I'm concerned those are the three major types of guests we want to have on this show and I don't care if that plays with what's popular and what's rising and trending and all of that crap I don't care because I think all three of those people um will help create this an anecdotal archive that we're creating also I could be full of crap I'm a financial planner what the hell do I know about this I don't know but what I do know is I've really enjoyed talking to you and I know you've enjoyed talking to this this is our second time doing this and uh we we we both love it and get that feeling and I hope that your evening is going to be a hell of a a lot better than it would have been had we not done this my friend well the cat is awake now so that means it's definitely time to go Mike but I really enjoyed it as always it was a blast thank you so much I appreciate it my best to Meep over there uh this has been another oh the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only and that is Rupert G and the hello Deli he may have sold the deli but hello- deli.com is still alive and well if you want something uh you know we got mugs yeah Late Show with David Letter mugs the only place to get any official Late Show with David Letterman merchandise is ruper g hellodd deli.com hit on over there um unfortunately you don't get the Warren zon shirt that Chris has there um his name is Chris sheeman my name is Mike Chisum uh this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants