Eileen O’Brien Held More Cards For Larry ‘Bud’ Melman Than Anyone, We Think

hey it's me John Beckerman and you are watching the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum and coincidentally I am Mike Chisum that's your bit right that's your bit that's my bit doing your bit thank welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum I'm stoked about today's guest oh man this is a fun one uh Eileen O'Brien Okay so uh the qard girl there is a short documentary on YouTube and we will link it in the Facebook group and different places but if you go on to YouTube and you look up I believe it's just called qard girl I think if you look that up you will find her there is a documentary short made about eileene O'Brien and and and um it is a a fantastic little doc about her very very interesting for anybody who is watching or listening to this right now I I promise you you'll like it go watch it qard girl and um you know at the end of the day U Eileen O'Brien has had a very interesting life that has connected with show business in different respects the last latest part of her career and I would say the the biggest part of her career has been working with film festivals all the all you know she's in Colorado right now but like was a major part of Sundance and things like that but before that she had a life in television her and her husband both um that inter intersected with uh Late Night with David Letterman and her intersection with it has to do with being a qard girl uh you know hence the name of the documentary made about her um you gotta you got to watch it for the Christopher reev Story there's a Christopher reev Story in in in in that documentary which we talk about a little bit in the episode here but boy is it worth watching just for that it's it's adorable uh it's an adorable story um but she worked for Kevin K who was in charge of the Q cards that 30 Rock and um you know so so she would work on Saturday Night Live quite a bit and that's what the documentary focuses on but she was also Kevin K's go-to for a second qard person for Late Night with David Letterman and she was on call uh and would work at Late Night with David Letterman all the time she wouldn't work with Dave as much but she would always do work with anytime there was a b sideline event at Late Night with David Letterman that required Q cards so a good example being whenever Calbert DeForest whenever Larry Bud Melman did anything Eileen was the gal holding the Q cards for Calbert she talks about Calbert she talks about some stories with maril Marco um we we go through a whole bunch of stuff here and and and um it's really cool talking to eileene because she has this perspective in in in many of these situations that she was in she was the only woman she was the only woman on the floor of a television show and and and she just knew how to kind of get by and be you know one of the one of the crew and and um I really appreciate her perspective talking about she talks so fondly of these times and her excitement is contagious uh her enthusiasm is contagious I'm just a really really big fan of of of vile we're going to have her back uh I need to have some more phone convers just phone conversations with her because you know she worked on things like Saturday night's Main Event back in the day anything that dick ersa was doing she was a she was a part of I just really appreciate her I think you're going to like or to uh the Letterman podcast is absolutely thrilled to present our conversation with Eileen O'Brien Eileen I'm so excited to have you here today this is uh anytime that I can get somebody who was around in the infancy years of late night um you so we're getting you today we're going to get your husband later on uh but we're you particularly today um I watched qard girl and we're going to we're going to post it uh around uh where we release this episode we're going to post qard girl uh the link to it on the YouTube the doc uh what a delightful what a delightful little doc about you and and and the adventures that you had and this is early on in your career I mean you've gone on and and become all part of all these film festivals and things like that a Sundance my gosh you you've been part of some really cool stuff but in the infancy of your career everything from being you know and I don't want to I don't want to rehash the dock people can go to that um but the idea of of you know Christopher Reeves assistant and then and then moving on to um uh uh you know SNL and and some of the things that you did there and and George car George Carlin oh my God George and and then linking up with him again you know yeah yeah crazy so so so in that though um we have a nice little pocket right here yeah because the doc did a great job about you talking about SNL and we've had Wally Ferris on on on the show here uh and he's done a good job talking about um how Q cards kind of fell through the cracks of the different unions and things like that and he gave us a really really good tell yeah I can tell you firsthand about that for sure yeah and it's just it's it's fascinating because to me to this very day where you had your office under the bleachers of SNL it's kind of the some of those Prime real estate in the world W and his team works from to this day all these years later you were at the epicenter of that and there's a whole bunch of Letterman stuff that wasn't in the the dock and so I'm so excited to meet you today thank you so much for coming on the Letterman podcast well thank you for having me and um the truth is that okay it's a 24 minute short called qard girl yep it started out as a 90minut feature called the queen eileene because as you I got look I got crowns um actually I got the I got the um nickname Queen eileene on the set of SNL because all the um Union guys who are pretty tough bunch and this is the 80s so I was the only woman on the floor um I just realized that the only way I could um fit in was to curse a lot y so I always use it as an excuse my husband said I was cursing before I started there but anyway um I just took to it out of water um in college in the early 70s so but basically they used to you know they give me a lot of grief and I have to give him grief back and at some point something was said like who do you think you are the queen or something I said yeah I'm fraking Queen eileene and you don't forget it or something silly so I got the nickname kind of at SNL when I was trying to hold my own with all the with all the union guys and well just the crew everybody on the crew and um yeah so basically the the documentary was meant to be a feature which included a lot of of a lot of Letterman stuff but we then got sort of notes from a lot of my friends in the festival world that we should make it a short so it was made by two young students um it was uh two of them that I gave scholarships when they were 12 years old to a program in the summer called a young filmmakers Workshop they started at 12 so Aiden Aiden Nelson and then Violet Dempsey and they met actually at a um at a program that was put together by seriesfest do you know about siries Fest don't what's I don't so siries Fest is a festival here in Denver it was 10 years old this year and I cried when they came here because it's the it's the amalgamation of my whole career it's a festival because I do festivals the last 25 30 years I've done film festivals that's a long story Y and television so it's a festival of TV Pilots it's amazing you have to look into it a festival of TV Pilots TV Pilots so they so it's it's independent it's a lot like film like Sundance would have independent filmmakers seriesfest has independent um pilot uh pilots from different people and then they also sprinkle throughout it you know people in the industry currently and and you know pretty big names I mean and so they came uh 10 years ago and I was working at Denver film uh Festival I was I I the Denver Film Society was the the year long yearround name of the organization and I was brought back in uh 2006 to do um to be the director of membership and Volunteers in 209 in 1999 I was the producer of the festival after I'd worked um can and Sundance I came here and then we my husband's job took us back East y so I we came back in 2006 so we've been here now since uh six this is the longest we've lived anywhere we've moved 32 times in 44 years of marriage because my husband Not only was an editor but then became the marketing person for this new fangle thing called Avid um this was in the early 90s he he worked for Avid in the first in the early years he worked for Bill Warner who was the creator of avid and and ended up getting a um Oscar a technical Oscar um because of what he came up with but anyway so we've traveled all over so we came back to Denver in ' 06 and when the girls 10 years ago there's two beautiful women that put together series Fest when they put it together um I just cried because I and they wanted to do it in Denver so I've been a real real supporter of the of this festival and these women who do it and they were doing actually a young people's they did a pilot a TV pilot so Aiden and violet met there and then I went to go see them because I always follow follow up on my students I started out as a school teacher so I'm a a sucker for young people I just I I always have had interns and volunteers that work with me and and young people so and in fact I've pretty much discovered through this podcasting that in a way that's what drives me and and it's funny because Q cards is is the same thing Q cards it's I always say it's like you're practic on the set you're everything but on the set in that you are going through whatever the actor character person is going through and you're there for them yep keeping them on keeping them on track helping them you know and that's what I like to do so these two young people came to me and said this was about four years ago four or five years ago oh we're gonna make a documentary about you I went no you aren't it's really a lot of work I've made documentaries and it's like not easy but they got it in their head and they did it and then we played about 10 festivals um one as a feature or as a short as a short so we we cut it down and so we took the part just you know the part about SNL and me and Christopher reev is always a good story oh that's a great story and my husband and and everything so he's as you saw he's in the short yeah so it's just yeah he's my Superman he is still to this day so yeah it's pretty groovy and um so that's what happened and it's unfortunate because they went around the country interviewing people they interviewed people in LA and New York that talked about you know working with me and everything but we that didn't end up in the final film so there's a lot of people that say to me we we want to see the feature and but both of them have just this year gone to college so um Violet who was a lot younger than Aiden she just graduated high school she's going to CU Denver study to be a d she's a director already but gonna she's gonna study directing and Aiden is leaving next month he's older than her but he was going to Community College he's going next month to do his last two years at the London Academy of film to study CUA Aiden because largely the way they broke it up and I didn't have anything to do with I let them do their thing because part of what I really tried hard to do was not impose all my knowledge of production on them you know because I wanted it to be their film so it kind of broke out where um Violet was the shooter she shot pretty much everything and she was the director and then Aiden did he also directed but mostly he did the editing they I mean they communicated and of course you know coordinated yeah but they had their rules and they they complimented each other yeah and they did a great job and so one I can't believe what a nice film it is it's really a nice film it's not like Earth shattering but two it's just brought me such joy and situations like this where I've been wanting to tell these stories in public but I really didn't say anything until recently because I would get asked all through my career oh talk about as and now talk about and I thought no I'm not going to do that because I learned from Al Al Al um seagull was my partner in crime he also did Letterman at on occasions but he was mostly SNL and he's in all the books and I watched when the guys the first book was two guys I think from The New York Times did a um a book about SNL I can't remember there's been a couple now but they came to interview him and he was a he was a real like Bon vant type of Storyteller from Queens New York right loved him he was like a sort of second father to me and he he was asked about specific stories that he told for years and he just clammed up he would be a you know what do you think about you know rock El Welch which was a torture to him and he said a you know a wonderful actress and a consumate professional and he and I I said to him afterwards what are you doing why don't you tell your stories and he said I Le we're just cogs in this wheel don't you ever think that you're more important than this show or the people on it or you know you got to be careful so I I've been really holding back telling I always tell them as at dinner you know my husband always said that we lived on his salary and dined out on my stories because I you know constantly had every day was a different you know I looked at the episodes of Letterman and you forget that you did it every day well now I didn't do it every day so I this is what I want to know so so yeah let's get to the let's get let's set the table a little bit on that because um you know you you and your husband both like I mean when you tell me your husband with with Abid and all this stuff but then you go back and you look at the cameraman and all the other things that that he yourself as well you get into the and and folks who want to watch it please watch qard girl we will link to it uh but but you know you get to the point where um you've done a few different odds and end jobs you know you kind of got pulled out of teaching and thrown into television production kind of ass backwards and and yeah yeah absolutely start getting all this experience and suddenly you get a call from a guy named Kevin Kay and we know we know who Kevin K is and who Kevin Kay has gone on to become it's crazy um but but you get this call from Kevin and and and and he's the guy who's running the Q cards for 30 Rock right and you get this opportunity um and and and your husband ends up working in 30 Rock as well so let's let's let's start there what year are we talking here that you're both working in 30 Rock and what what are you doing we're both together I I he was there I think 81 82 I'm not sure but earlier than me as an editor Y and then he became he was asked to be a manager of post production now when I came in it was 83 I had just just finished working for George Carlin on Carlin Carnegie that was totally a fluke um again my whole career has just been you know I was joking with somebody the other day I'd go oh I could do that you know I'll try that and see when I was a crew person in South Carolina ETV which is where Chuck and I met we could do anything so we did everything so a friend of mine Jerry gner who went on to become the president of Sports you know how you watch a puck and there's all this overlay and Chiron and you know and uh um what do you call it a blue screen green screen stuff that's all Jerry gepner all but before he did that he was working as a technical director down in in New York City downtown somewhere and I went to a party at his house because I had done four or five um specials through my connection with Emil ardolino Emil ardolino was the director of um dance in America and went on to direct Dirty Dancing okay wow okay and he was he would come to South Carolina and we were really well matched because we he was a New Yorker and I was a New Yorker and I knew where to get the best you know pastrami sandwich and so we got really close and the first work I got was through a meal in New York and then that led to other um sort of freelance gigs and the last gig before I started at SNL I worked for George Carlin who as I've said to you in writing um the only person that was a better boss than Letterman was George but they're pretty neck and neck okay so George was just amazing person and was not only just that he was the real deal if he if he committed to you he committed to you in you know sincerely there was there was no phoniness and in fact the only person when I moved back from can where I worked the can film festival for five years so we moved back to uh the states right in like 2000 99 2000 the only person that returned my phone call was George no kidding yeah and George was it was so all these people that I'd held cards for that said to me if you have need anything I just call me right George call me himself me it a himself so I pick up the phone and he's like eileene it's George and I go George who goes it's like and he goes George Carlin you called me what do you need you know so anyway so I worked for George and then right after that is when I went to the party at Jerry gentner's House yep and Jerry said his wife said to me what do you want to do because the work was just disappearing so because the all the cable network started with all the Arts all they started their own Arts Network and they died within a year just died they started in the early 80s and then they were dead by 83 so all the work that I had previously done was drawing up so I said I love being on the floor and she said to me his Jerry's wife at the time said well what about the words that roll I said oh teleprompter I've done teleprompter I did it for years when I was the camera woman when I was a crew person she said well Jerry hires people to do that so next day I get so Jerry says I'll connect you right so I get this phone call on is the on the cassette machine where I have Kevin Kay going eileene this is Kevin Kay with video Q I heard you want to do Q cards on SNL I I had disconnect I was like I thought there was somebody at home back in South Carolina punking me see because they call me every couple of weeks and go are you a star yet you know oh no friendly P crabs in the bucket right so I I didn't call him back and then he called again he called three times and finally the third one was do you want to interview for this job or don't you so I call him back and I go who the hell are you and why are you calling me so he said you know Jerry gner gave me your name I said what that was for teleprompter he said oh we do teleprompter in the summer to make money when SNL's in Hiatus so that's where the connection came and he said we're starting next week we're doing pre-tapes with Eddie Murphy the first time did it and I go I you know so I I go from sitting in my apartment miserable to sitting in the bleachers right above where I worked for all those years and I it's like a typical 20 year old I I I tried to talk my way out of the job you know I can't draw really I can't write good he's like we can teach you that so by the next week I was holding cards for Eddie now when he hired me he said we also have an opportunity for you to work on Letterman because Letterman was I think it's two years in I think it was the second I think he started 81 I want to say beginning 82 yeah so late night late night started then not not late show okay the morning yeah no no the morning the yeah late night started in 82 but the morning show and your husband was familiar with that when we have him on we're GNA talk to him about that but yeah yeah it so you were there early on you were there you know a year and a half in or whatever right so basic basically he said to me so if you want what you can do is be on call from Monday through Thursday for Letterman and then do do SNL from Thursday to Saturday so I had a full like sday run pretty much and I said sure you know I I'm freelance I don't I and I wasn't a big fan of having to always find the next job I really because I'd worked at a PBS network I was used to that sort of you know routine and having people that you the same people I really like seeing the same people every day so when he offered me that it was perfect because I really wanted to have like a home base you know yeah so I so that's the way I did it from 83 to 887 I did I did so I was on call Monday through Thursday and basically Kevin would call me in the morning because Kevin was that whole time Kevin was a Dave's guy you know he was his main dude and also you know so you know that Kevin K's uncle Donnie Kay was the qard guy for for Carson and when Carson moved from New York to um to Burbank is when he handed off the New York part of the company to Kevin and so Kevin became the head of the company too so and we basically what we did was we did Letterman as I said during a week and then we did SNL all weekend long and then we would do all kinds of specials because in those days they we held what they call award siiz Q cards for we did I did the first MTV Awards I did you know you name it no kidding oh my gosh lots of award shows yeah so we did specials did Eddie Murphy host that one no Eddie Eddie was no the first MTV award was uh um B Midler and Dan akroy they were the first but then Eddie did the second one and made me crazy because he and I were really close from the years at SNL and he didn't realize that the awards cards there these giant cards in the middle of the theater their letters are like this big and you have to practice those and he wouldn't practice because Eddie was so genius that he never practiced you know so but what we got through it but I did do the one with Eddie it was pretty wild and in fact if you if you ever see a a version of it he's yelling at me from the stage he's like hey you know hen cute car girl you know basically because you know he's like having trouble not big trouble because Eddie never has big trouble he's just too too genius too but it was weird because what happened was Kevin would call me like sometimes Sunday night because he'd know or you know Monday more because you know we because you know we would go live to tape at 5:30 so and but the clocks all said 12:30 you know they were all like as if we were live as if it was live yeah I want to ask you about that because you're one of the few people who you get you get the experience of both uh uh both SNL and Letterman and and there are some people who say that Letterman almost sometimes felt more alive than SNL did because of the pacing of how they did it and yeah yeah they never I mean I when I was there which was just those five years um I don't think there was more than two times where we stopped the tape for for Letterman I mean he was really committed to it being live so you know as if it were as if you know as they say live to tape yep and but the stuff that goes wrong stays in the show like that's stay in show and and unless there was a major technical breakdown there he was not going to allow it because he really wanted the pace to be live so when you watch it you can feel that in the sense that it's just you just keep on going no matter what well and it became the culture of the show like it literally is the personality of the show that people like me and and so many so many others uh fell in love with and and that's kind of that that that's I think one of the secret ingredients is the of the secret sauce to making it feel like it was a club and that everyone was allowed to be in the club because the crew was also a part of the show and and and they would be highlighted uh sometimes for comedic reference from a writer but sometimes when things messed up it's like okay let's let's let's now dive into this and get meta about it which is genius one of the genius things about about that show well and you know Dave was ALS okay he's just an absolutely I think one of the most wonderful kind men I've ever worked for in my career seriously he's one of the few people that ever stuck up for me when other people abused me other when there was guests once or twice there were guests who were abusive and he just came right out and said why are you doing that she you know don't treat her that way and that was so rare because I always joke that you know how there's that joke of like first you beat your wife then you beat your children and when all is said and done you kick the dog right you know like I know it's a very badly uh it's a joke that no longer is you know appropriate no but but but it's but I always said Q cards were were the dogs of the industry so when you couldn't blame anybody else or couldn't you know like take it out on then you take it out on the qard person you know and that would happen every now and then and he would not let it h he would not allow it he was just all in where he would just say stop that you know and it was really amazing because there was you know he had and he also you know had a very large woman team you know we had oh absolutely Jude Brennan and Barbara Gaines were both Pas when I worked there so they were bringing me copy and so basically what happened is that Dave understood the power of the of the crew and see if you put someone on camera they get paid to be an actor yep and and I forgot I meant to tell you most of my work that I did um not most but a big heavy percentage was I did um Larry Bud melman's remotes I did a l i did did almost all of those and Marl Marco and I were you know not tight but I really loved working for her where you know he Kevin would call me and say hey will you go to the Empire State Building you're handing out you know wet towels and Merill maros the producer and so I worked for Merill a lot okay so I got I got to jump in here right now um now I I've had Paul on the show and and and and Steve O'Donnell and some of these amazing amazing icons within the Letterman Mythos I haven't had uh Dave and I haven't had marilon um and and and and people ask me every once in a while who I'd rather have on and I'll tell you this it's a tossup I have so much I have so much respect for Merill Marco and if you have any meril stories uh I would love to hear them and the other thing too that I want to throw out there for you but also for our audience um are you familiar with substack no I I'm not no okay so substack is a platform that people can go and they can write on it and they can they can put their writings up and and and they can um it's like a blog or it's it's a sort of a Blog it's sort of a Blog yeah but it's um It's a combination of a of of a Blog and and there's patreon there if people want to subscribe to to to to these people and and and support them and and whatnot and it's a it's a it's a place that they can sound off and they can build an audience and it's uh it's a it's a fantastic platform Merl Marco's substack is brilliant it's so great the stuff that she writes is hilarious and if you'll remember she's also a visual artist um and and and so she does like almost like graphic novel type type things mix media and whatnot she is just so I highly highly highly yeah so so that's I I promise you just in getting to know you this short uh this short little week here just giving you a gift you're really really gonna enjoy it a lot so but if you have any Merill stories I just I want to well so Merill you know it what I try to explain in all of these interviews you know it's really hard for a current audience to even understand that you don't know who anybody is or what's going on because there's no social Med there's nothing you know yeah there's not even I mean I always joke but the only thing you really had was to read you know because you're in New York as opposed to LA right the LA had of course variety and all that which we had but it's not the same so we had page six in you know the New York news and you'd read page six because there it would say you know Dave is doing this or you know but in general there was no information so when I was at SNL basically all those years was when they were every year talking about taking the sucker down you know absolutely yeah you were there the dark the dark times I had no idea I just was going along to get along and so when I met Merill see I met Merill the first time I held cards for um Larry Bud you know Calvin De Forest calt yeah Cal Calvert yeah right and bless his little heart oh my God he I gotta tell you you know it was all real there was nothing fake he was and so I was kind of a therapist in that he was every time you came to him you know he would go I'm gonna screw it up and Dave's gonna be mad and I go and I kept going honey he likes when you screw no no you know and then you really felt like why are you saying that to this poor man but you know Merill found him you know the story at NY actually Steve Wier and Carl tman actually were the guys who found Steve Wier good friend of mine and I actually have I actually have a copy and we're gonna we're going to figure out how we can distribute it or put it up here um we actually I have a really good copy of King of the Z's which was the New York Film New Y NYU NYU film that they made that that that Calbert was in it and Steve wrote for the show for the first year and and and and they had said to him in the preparation for late night they said hey well we should get a guy like the guy in your film and he's like let's bring the guy my filmed and he introduced them to Merill and to and to Dave so Steve Wier and I can make that con you and Steve I think you and Steve would actually you pass like ships in the night it feels like the moment he left is when you kind of came on he left when he left when Jim Downey and them started working for for for letter that's when that's when Steve left so I want to connect you two because I think you two would probably have some really uh really knows prospections yeah but anyway anyway so so Merill and and calber Merill and Calbert would we well I would be so uh so Kevin would call me up in the mornings and say you know come to the studio because the only reason you'd need me as a second is what we'd call it yeah you know is that the way cards work is that it's a prum situation where one set is you're you know one person looking over that way and the other set is on the other side that's even the way we did SNL you know two sets two big sets Y and so every now and then it was off Paul you know doing his thing and so you'd hold cards for Paul or somebody else on the crew that you would have a back and forth so you needed a second set of cards so that's when I was called in so anytime there's a sketch it's almost always that it's me or me or one of the other guys there's you know there's three or four other people at the time that are also available if it didn't work out you know for you do a lot of Chris Elliot stuff yeah I worked with Chris a lot yeah man see that's the one that's the other one that's uh Chris very very very sweet guy very supportive of what we're doing here um might come on the show at some point but but but very kind of you know really really really uh uh standoffish about about what he did in the past sort of a thing but he is just a genius we adore Chris Elliot I get it because it's they're protecting you know that I don't know what you'd call it that layer of where you're an artist you know and yeah I well I feel like Q Parts in its is its own art really and it I have to say that when I sat down the first time with Al okay and and he started to tell me how we do it you know because you have in your head oh how hard is this you just write it on a card it is so more complicated than that absolutely and the first the first couple of weeks I I went home and said to my husband I don't know if I can do this I mean you have to you have to plan ahead you have to to know whether to write big cards or small cards and where to hold them and it was just this whole process right of learning that but he was so wonderful to me and Al was just if it wasn't for Al I would have failed because he was he didn't he wasn't sexist at all which of course in the 80s was very easy he was just a warm generous man he was just he was I was kind of like his his kind of you know shika um daughter prend daughter you know and we we ended up being very very close and and it was a lot to do with the fact that he never talk down to me you know he just walked me through things so I started where I just couldn't do a lot of things because I didn't know how to do them but then within a year I was I was right there because of Al you know he just he was great so but the thing is with um Letterman you know uh Kevin was his full-time guy abolutely and Kevin was the one who knew how he liked things you know everybody as you know does it differently Carson laid his cards down on the in front of the set right and read them across row yep all in a row you know and Letterman I don't know if he was the first but one of the first to do the to turn the card on the side and do the not do the full joke but just write you know bits and pieces of each joke yeah and and so da and so Dave was really committed to Kevin because and vice versa because he knew he knew him you know yeah you get the Shand you get the Shand the trust all of that stuff I only did that like twice I only did the actual cards for for Dave twice maybe okay okay I want to hear about that was that nerve-wracking was that like yeah I was ready to commit suicide really so I was just like oh my God I'm G but um and that was something happened I can't remember for Kevin he had to get away but but basically I always just did second I always did second okay I got I gotta go back and I gotta ask about this a little bit because it's fascinating to me um so so you're you're you're already an accepted member of the crew on the floor that trust is built and and and not an easy thing and not everybody gets that trust sometimes people show up and they're on the floor for 30 minutes and then they never get back on the floor again like even though you know Cru swap between all the different Productions in 30 Rock but but if you don't if you if you do the wrong thing or say the wrong thing whether it's inadvertent or not sometimes you're not accepted into the organism that is that floor crew so you already at this point were accepted you were accepted member there uh but Kevin for whatever reason can't be there to do Q cards for the primary position for for for Dave right and so you're there and and you're coming in to do it Dave is very known to try people a little bit sometimes when they're doing something for the first time he's able he he throws it out um you know makes note of it or does something to kind of mess it up or whatever you know the staff have come on and talked about if they're in the audience to answer a question and they had a little biography made up he would try and ask them details about the biography and try them did he do that either time when you did that with the no never no no no okay because there's it's a real difference between an artistic decision and a technical decision okay so people would say to me all the time well hey for cheap thrills why don't you throw in a bad word or you know this was mostly SNL and stuff and I'd say wow you really don't get how this business works and how it works is you do what you do and it's this little part and you do it better than anybody because if you don't do it better than everybody there's going to be someone to take your position that's the thing is that you different than having a union because we weren't unionized yeah so you could be fired at any minute any minute and so what you also realize is that it is such a you know this is a community effort that you know this is not an art you can do in the back of your you know garage by yourself so although you know people have tried to do that king of comedy Etc so basically um hey what are we doing here what what not a garage it's a basement damn it anyway you you technically everyone knows that you don't that up I'm sorry you you just don't mess with that abolutely that now if I was on camera and he was doing a back and forth with me which I did a couple of times I can't remember where I was I was on SNL a number of times and I think I did a couple of on camera I can't remember to be honest but yeah yeah would he would mess with you because it was comedy you know oops oh goodness no I'm good somebody somebody I I got a New York number that keeps calling me and I don't know what the heck it is I kept my New York 91 prob 30 Rock yeah they want you back I don't know and anyway we'll just let it go its way because I'm afraid to mess with this hasn't changed at all I've seen everything here so we're good we're good so um so yeah I could see oh you see that all the time because see Dave's comedy is totally contingent on there being no uh no bottom floor you know you know base you know you don't know what's gonna happen you know I mean that's the whole what happened with share you know said I don't want to come on because I don't know what you're gonna say to me well she was right you know yeah in a way but on the other hand it made for really really unusual comedy not your average comedy not your pumpum kind of Comedy so everybody was always you know on edge which is like we go back to Larry Bud Melman you know the thing that worked there is that poor Calbert you know couldn't help himself but screw up see because truthfully the man the man was not born to be on camera you know he was an absolutely lovely person but he was just terrified from start to finish shaking he would Shake all the time and I would say to him honey calm down it's okay and you know like I said at the beginning I would say to him you know kind of like Dave likes it when you mess up and then I realized that really upset him so I would stop saying that I would just say you're gonna do great he's gonna love you I don't know why you're upset how many times have we gone through this you know you're gonna be fine because he would come to me every single time just shaking literally physically shaking going I hope I don't make a mistake and I said we'll fig well don't worry we're here we're g you know and Merill see Merill was of course comic genius Y and she knew that what Dave loved was that kind of you know I don't belong here person absolutely so she never you know she never in any way you know put him down or anything but she wasn't she wasn't going to be her his therapist either you know we both were there kind of just very carefully saying it's going to be okay you're going to be fine but knowing knowing that actually we didn't really in the end you didn't want him to be okay yeah the the the intent he wanted him to hold you know hold the toast or whatever he was oh my God they made him do such crazy things and I did a lot of them with him he was just he was just a really really lovely man and you could tell though towards the end when I when I left in 87 that he had started to get a little more confident and I heard from then on out that you know when they moved over they did they really didn't take him I I I I want to when he went to CBS I don't remember was Larry on I don't think he was maybe a little he became Calvert DeForest because the NBC folk called Larry Bud Melman intellectual property which is hilarious to me so just like the very first episode of late night when uh you know it's it's it's Calbert that's the first image you see at at at on the CBS show the first image you see is the cbsi the middle drops out ands there he says this is CBS so so so yes and they and they started calling him Calvary and they definitely uh used him there's a actually if you want to um if you want to see one of the the the the the the later things that he did before he passed um you know where there's a full length thing he was on The Late Late Show with Tom Snyder and and and uh there's a he had a segment anyway I don't know if it was the full show dedicated to him I feel like it was somebody else on there as well but calber actually was on an episode of of Late Late Show and and talked about that that was during the CBS years um whatnot but but you're right um they certainly because the tone of the show because it turned 11:30 uh turned 11:30 show the tone of the show of the show changed and and and didn't do as much yeah as much zany they had to they had to kind of make it a little bit more like Johnny's Tonight Show even though it still had Letterman's flare to it yes and Calbert I think probably had his screen time cut because of that I would I would venture that that's the case I haven't really heard it that explicitly yet uh I could probably ask Morty that question and and and yeah you know oh Morty have you talked to Morty he's a friend he's a friend I I I appreciate Mor very very much he is a he's an awesome guy he was he was a great producer really great yeah it was just yeah because he was he was the assistant when you were there right because Barry S was still there when you were there right yep he was and then I want to say towards the end maybe 86 when he went I don't know but there was a point where what I was was there when he was the producer he was made when he took over yeah yeah just a short period of time but and you know then after I stopped doing cards I still went back every now and then to help out and did things I was asked after I quit SNL um Robin Williams came back so that was during the Dana Carvey days and that was after me um and I got a phone call from actually from Robin and he said Eileen I can't do this without you and I was like what and he said you know you're the one who knows how to fight follow my ad living and you know just my whole style and because what I would do for him is flip through cards that work work script that he was never gonna speak and then just have things ready for him so that poor Davey Wilson wasn't losing his mind because he couldn't you know get him to say the line that he could cut the camera to because that's what people don't really get about live television is that you know you're editing on the spot so if someone changes or goes Off Script or off you know uh the uh you know the sheet the call the um the rundown sheet it it throws everybody off because the cameras don't know where to go you know that kind of thing and so with with Robin I particularly enjoyed doing him you know because he basically um he for one thing he was just the most genuinely beautiful human being yeah and he just I just love loved being there there for him you know like I said you're not on camera but you're as close to camera as you can be and you are living for and feeling the experience of the of the actor so that for Robin it was just it was like kind of getting inside his skin for a little bit so I went back for him and I went back a couple of times when Kevin would call me and say um you know I need someone to because I had moved on I was um I was actually with a few other women putting together a cable network and I I worked for I worked for dick Cavit first I got a job working say okay this is why I love Noah pre- interiew because I love the reaction of that dick's been on the show I I I Adore dick cavitt uh wow so you went to work for cavitt yeah I was I was the assistant to the producers and I was also the control room PA for the Cavit show that was on um I think Bravo or one of the cable networks and it was weird it was like Jimmy brisland was on Mondays and Cavit was on two it was just this really it was his last show it was his last actual show and then I went on to work for him personally I was like an assistant producer to his his executive producer who was Judy Englander she'd been with him since the ABC days and I I was very very close to her and we worked together this was in the 80s right we were trying to late 80s we were trying to put together a show for PBS that would use Clips see so we had like a we had an author show we had a um rock and roll show so I was doing all of the you know kind of collecting data you know trying to get a hold of people yeah so like I called okay Jefferson Airplane their original drummer was at that time on the street so I would try to track him down I tracked him down and then he called me every day and we were all we were really close see in the 80s nobody cared about vintage yes okay yes and you know ABC actually burnt some of their Library I don't know well I yeah IAL we talked to Dick about that when he was on the show here and I mean there's a whole bunch of Carson stuff that that that that is lost and doesn't exist and I mean that's just everybody got yeah it's dick was Dick Dick was on who dick who dick yeah we had him on the show I had him on the show and and and and I love I adore him it's one of the greatest hours and a half I've ever had is talking to him it was amazing he's amazing and years later um I ran I was the artistic director at Savannah film festival and he came down with his wife Carrie she was still alive yeah and I spent the week with them because we we showed their documentary um tick Hall and anyway but but a wonderful man but I'll tell you at that time it was like really as if nobody appreciated the past you know I don't know was this 80s or just I don't know and maybe it just takes a certain amount of time before somebody realizes I mean now we're so spoiled because everything is recorded you know in those days nothing was you know recorded and I just was brokenhearted when we couldn't do the shows only because of the music Union would have charged us for every single time we played music and we could and and PBS couldn't afford the music CU right so but I mean I talked to Jimmy Hendrick's grandfather it was a crazy time Janice Joplin's mother was still in charge of her you know estate and I I went down to actually to Port Arthur to talk to her and um yeah so I tried to put that show together and then I went on to other things but during that time I was still in New York and so at any point Kevin would call me although Kevin had kind of moved on at that point um yeah you know Kevin as we know you probably have talked about it theory that guy's career is amazing he went to Nickelodeon he was Chris Elliott's manager or something he did something with Chris for a while yeah and then he became um an executive at a number of places but you know we ended up at paramont he was and he I think he greenlighted Yellowstone I'm pretty sure he was the president when anyway um yeah so yeah he's he's touched some amazing things to the trajectory of his career I had a phone conversation not too long ago with him and and uh hopefully actually after you know what after this conversation here today with you I'm gonna give him I'm gonna give him a dingle again because he uh he needed a little bit of time he was he was uh they had just they had just gotten something green lit I think and and so he's like I'm G to get busy really busy here because I think he's independent now right he's doing his own thing well yeah and I contacted him a while ago because about about five years ago I got involved with some people and we were GNA try and turn qard girl into a sitcom okay and no kidding yeah and we reached out but I think it was like a time when he was at paramont still and I don't know you know who knows but um but basically he was real sweet he just said you know this isn't going to work for us and I said okay and so and we're still kind of working on that that's not a dead idea no it's it's it's it's genius it's really we feel like 80s you know I always say to people it's kind of like 30 Rock meets um Devil Wears product because it's 80s it's you know me being the only woman on the floor and you know it's a real a real different time and would make for interesting comedy I think so so we'll see I don't know it's like I I never I can't stop vlogging this because the truth is it was probably the most amazing 10 years of my life and I'm so grateful because during that time my husband was so supportive he really I made no money I mean I think I think it was $10 an hour okay yep but I was so addicted you know and at some point my husband said to me you know it's like you're you an addiction when you're high you're so high and when you're low you're really low because if anything goes wrong or you know you're in the midst of turbulence it's really hard because it's high level turbulence nowadays I I I feel sorry for because there's no you know there was no way people could record you or you know write stuff on I mean there was none of that yeah so the whole time I was there I had no idea what was going on and same thing with Dave so when okay let me tell this story so fifth anniversary I was there right so there was a big it was a party okay but it was a very letter manes type of party it was just it was one of the oddest parties I've ever been to in my life because it was kind of like we're gonna we're gonna um celebrate but not too much you know and um and he had all these odd people that day you know as a guests and stuff and and what was happening was all the crew guys see because they're all as you know the the um aasi guys are local one which means they started with um vaudville okay these guys know about Showbiz right they know how dangerous Showbiz is so it the whole talk was oh five years and and me naively I thought well of course we're gonna keep on going well no it was like the fact that it made it to five years was fraking Miracle like any show that's brand new and and controversi to say the least and so so it was this weird celebration of yay oh but don't get too excited you know and I remember going home and saying to Chuck I don't really know if we were supposed to laugh or cry you know it was just like and then it realized that you know it's the nature of the Beast because it took me until I worked for dick I never I was never ever on a show that got cancelled and then with dick we were up and running and we thought it was going to go and then we get the call and we're cancelled and the woman who was one of the producers Susan something I don't know her last name she went on to be a really famous agent in Hollywood okay she she was very Showbiz oriented and I remember she said to me Eileen it's chiz what's wrong with you everybody gets cancelled you know and I was because I was crying I was like what how did this happen we're too good you know because and then those guys know it see in their hearts because because they're on a Broadway play it lasts a month it m lasts a week it's gone you know even the most fabulous star studded things can get cancelled right so that was the fifth anniversary party was kind of like you know Broadway meets television where is this Gonna Last or not you know and looking back on it it's just incredible to me that it kept on going because I now I read and I know behind the scenes just like with SNL during that Peri perod people were going uhuh I don't know this is too controversial this is too harsh whatever you know there there's stuff that now and that's the weirdest thing to have experienced and lived through a time when you didn't know any of that and then all of a sudden you read about it you know and it you go back to it and go oh wow yeah I guess it was that way you know like I look at SNL a lot you know and and talking to people and say wow there was kind of a tension all the time that thought it was just being live TV but it was also well you know we could not be here tomorrow you know that kind of feeling you know it's really funny um um David Letterman is is um one of the only uh talk show hosts late night talk show host who got to go out on his own terms um yes almost all of the other ones didn't and and and and but it's inverted though because his first show was cancelled and and and the the and they they knew what that felt like very early When The Morning Show got cancelled right and so there was this drive that was there and I've talked to a bunch of people about this idea that like you said you you articulated that beautifully um you know we could always be canceled that could happen that that that that was there but then Letterman got to the point where it became so big that uh and then the CBS thing and all of that sort of thing and and the unique position that he was in that he actually created a franchise that competed against The Tonight Show that had never happened before and so he kind of got to write his own ticket at that point um but you were there during the years that he was becoming that big you were there during the years where that that popularity was was becoming um you know such that that people couldn't believe it I'll give you an example uh we've talked to people on this show where they were just like they were writers and they were writing the best that they could and they didn't necessarily they were sort of in a vacuum but then the show would go to La and they would see people lined up around the block to get tickets and it was like big thing that the show was coming they're like oh oh oh I I guess I guess we're popular you were there during the epicenter of kind of that time yes yes for sure and and it was pretty much from the fth anniversary on that you felt that so it was sort of that next year or two you started to feel the power of His presence you know and and of the show's presence and up until then it was kind of like just it was kind of like doing a a show in in your garage you know what I mean yeah because and what I find once again it's not my garage it's a basement anyway continue continue but no I mean the thing that stunned me the most is the courage of Letterman to never ever give up his real nature and his nature was you know that I'm going to say what I'm going to say and and let the chips fall where they may and I think one of the things he taught me in our industry was you got to be yourself or sooner or later you get caught you know and he never got caught because he was always himself I mean there was just there was no phony Letterman there was no this is the version now there was during rehearsal you know he wore a hat and he was very and he and he was very like almost how would you put it it was as if during a ballet performance and that ballerina just walks around and just point points to she did a real lowkey rehearsal you never he never did a full out rehearsal yeah because he you could tell he wanted to save the crazy energy for the show and so much show that a couple of times and this is when I thought i' get fired um the guy who was the um stage manager was also um into uh music and he was in a choir and whatever and he said said to me dragged me out one day because I told him that I had sung in my life I'd been a singer and he said here and he started to play the piano and I was singing with with him on the pi you know with the piano and I looked over Paul's piano yes Paul's piano yeah and and he's playing some song that I know I can't remember and I'm singing my little heart out you know and I all of a sudden turned and looked over and Dave was at his desk rehearsing and I didn't know it you know because nobody had said to me hey you know cut you know stop I it was just cuz he was doing it so casually and I looked over and I went oh my God this is it you know and he never said a word never a word yeah it was just like I just quit and the I forget the guy's name he was there I think he was before Biff or with Biff he was a white dude um yeah he was a sweet guy and I turned we're never gonna do that 20 minutes of hearing this uh uh uh when it's released Don Giller will have that name to us weish how quick Dawn gets that stuff so okay really yeah oh yeah he's got it alll but we should go back to Merill so yeah all right so I just was enamored with her as a woman you know in the business because there were so few of us um now behind the scenes Dave had all women practically you know with Jude and and Barb and all those people but in terms of of your of your staff you know I mean your crew otherwise there was very few women and and writers you know it was hard for women writers as you probably have heard letter Letterman had more than most um but you know SNL it was almost like dead in the 80s now there was early on there was an Anni Bates and all those but in the s it got very um I used to joke that uh if you didn't go to Harvard and work on the Lampoon you could not work at either one of these shows right and I met this girl years later I was working at A&E to in the late 80s and I was um working in production there and she was with me she we were both temps right so we weren't in any High position and she said oh my God I'm going to interview over at SNL for a writing job and I was like oh my God good luck I said if you haven't if you haven't gone to Harvard and you didn't work at the Lampoon you have no hope in hell and she said oh I did both of those and I went oh well then you have a chance still she didn't get it she didn't get oh my gosh yeah but I when I said it to her she went oh I've done both of those I was like what because so anyway it was crazy yeah crazy but but Merill just was this beaming person who I just the genius you could just see it flying out of her head you know what I mean yeah and all her segments that were ever done I believe she came up with a I I believe Letterman has credited her for top 10 I think uh also St pet tricks a lot of his classic comedy routines right came out of her mind you know so anytime she was going to be there I was so thrilled and it's a silly thing but we did this one segment with with this woman who collected snow does okay you know like you turn upside down yep so so I came home that night and and you know she of course it was Merl's collection as well as this woman because Marl collected snow does too so just so you know for the last F 45 50 years I've been collecting snow does I mean and it was all because well Merill does it so I should do that you know precious well now they're in a colle they're in a barn somewhere and because I'm in Denver so they're in a barn somewhere up on the mountains somewhere my I have these wonderful friends that live up you know in the mountains and I couldn't I couldn't store them any longor them for you yeah yeah there's boxes and boxes of snow dos that have Merill Merl's name on them kind of oh that is how inspiring she was you just you saw what she did and you wanted to do it you know you just said oh my God this woman and I mean she went on to such amazing work you know I mean the things she's written yeah well I'm looking forward to seeing substack but anyway yeah her substack is awesome I'm I'm yes absolutely absolutely now um okay I I I hate we've got we've got time still don't get me wrong we still got time and so so the stories that you want to tell because there's a couple of them that Ian uh Ian kind of fed me a little bit and it's like okay there any stories you want to tell but you also have an envelope there uh with some things that you've held on to oh my God not only that oh these are this is this is my pride and joy okay so hang on I'm a packrat a big but I wish I'd been more of a packrat I have explod a pop okay yep I have one of those and then but this is really this is the most important thing in the world there it is the drinkster the drinkster from you know they used to do still lives right I don't know how I got either one of these but then I also am a paper collector because there was a point I want to say like 15 years after I left New York that I started to teach um just do lectures not teach full-time but do lectures I was brought into film schools and stuff my big thing at the time was because a lot of film schools did not delineate between television and film and I was just it made me crazy like yeah television is a totally different experience personality um especially live of course or live to tape so I used to teach these classes that were this is how you do live TV and this is how you do film and they're never the twain shall meet they're not they you know process-wise they're different but I saved I saved a bunch of my paperwork from Letterman so I have um see this this little folder says ladman anyway but I have fortunately being in New York in the 80s you had very little space so I wish I'd collected more I swear I just I mean I had five years of SNL scripts and they're gone I have just made yeah I have two I have Madonna and Chevy Chase but but Dave this is a script from Dave okay that was particularly fun um it was uh what what it was Thursday July 25th 1985 so who was the guest on this one oh my God anyway we can talk about this later I'll send you pictures but it has everything including it has the um you know the parts that we would put on cards which were intros and stuff like that but I also have a ton of well not a ton but quite a few um late night rundowns I love rundowns they're just so beautiful they just really kind of how would you say they capture the experience you know and I have a couple of them that were um uh that were stage managers and so it's like they're all marked up see look this is a really good one see oh wow yeah that's stage manager notes and stuff like that I have stuff like this for you know SNL and all the other shows I have the original Carlin at Carnegie script and yeah I've been thinking because I typed it by hand from Walkman okay so basically yeah so I have some crazy paperwork that I'll send you and everything send Ian stuff from SNL and all but um but I want to tell one one story yep okay so Harvey bar yep you know oh yes so Harvey you know came on during the strike with his shirt on with the strike shirt that said NBC on strike so my husband at the time was a manager and was up in like in on five and stayed there for like a week he never came home okay because of course he was forced to do all the work that the guys who were on strike were out so out on the strike line on the picket line were all our friends I mean that you know all our friends worked videotape and editing and everything and they were all picketing yep and then I was I was stressed out because I had to cross the line to come in and work Letterman y but Harvey picar wore the shirt you know that said New York um NBC on strip right which I should have brought it out but anyway so years later I'm working at Sundance okay yeah I at Sundance I was in charge of mostly documentaries so my job was to I was in the filmmaker Services Department the liaison so we were aison between the festival and the filmmaker that only it started in 99 with with I was at in the 99 class and wow and it was an idea by Nicole Gil she was the festival director and she realized that the filmmakers were like kind of deer in headlights when they got to the festival so our job I always joke we were kind of the moms you know we call them up we tell them what they were going to do when they were going to do it then we'd follow them around all of you know all of their screenings we go with them well in the midst of I want to say 90 no it might have been 2000 when American Splendor was there okay yep the film itself which is if you have an audience seeing American Splendor you are beere because you should be bereft because it is one of the great alltime sort of how would you put it it's sort of a documentary sort of fic it is fiction because um Paul Giamatti plays Harvey car right yep so I hear about it and someone says to me you know Letterman's in there you should go you know so I went to the screening and met the two filmmakers and I've just had the best time because of course there's all these segments from Letterman but guess what the segment with Harvey Peart is is re recreated so I went up to them and I said what's going on you have all these other segments from Letterman and they said NBC would not let us have it because it was so controversial and so we had to recreate it with with Paul Giamatti playing him see and I said well I was there you know and we choke about that and you know I have the shirt because you know of course I got one of the shirts from one of my you know Union buddies and I said you know and so it was this really fabulous like kind of mix of Worlds right so when they and they were going to leave and I said don't leave because I'm get hearing I they don't tell us as staff but I had a feeling I said I think you're going to win they ended up winning where I think the best yeah fiction piece just an amazing so now fast forward to about two years ago and who should come to seriesfest by Paul Giamatti okay and you know he has this podcast he does um I forget the name of it it's really a crazy podcast with like a I want to say he's a scientist or something do you know about pod I don't know about Paul G's podcast I don't that's right I'm GNA be looking up after yeah yeah yeah I so we did the podcast see at the festival so I came and I wore my shirt right and I went up to the Mike when he you know when he had questions from the audience and I walked up and I looked at him and I said hi Paul and he went like that shirt and I said yeah I wore it for you because I bet you know about this shirt and he went oh my God and he like there was a whole thing and I might have a copy of it if I do I'll send it to you we'll put that and him absolutely but there he was and he said oh my God he said yeah you know we couldn't show that segment for some reason NBC legal said no so I thought that was sort of interesting that they that NBC let him have all the other segments right but not that one I guess because of the you know strike part of it or whatever but that was one of my most crazy moments and this is absolutely as silly as it seems my favorite story so there was a period of time when they kept putting cameras on monkeys do you remember this monkey cam yes I remember the monkey yes okay before we all remember the monkey the late night monkey cam absolutely so the first monkey was not a big monkey I don't I don't know monkeys right but he wasn't a chimpanzee or he was like a smaller monkey and he came out and the camera was so heavy that you just see the the picture and he fell backwards so the camera of course you know shows this and I swear to God I remember Dave going oh my God we need a bigger monkey you know it was like you know these kind of goofy moments that just were incredible to watch you know and then oh I was there when um oh God the wrestler beat up um uh what's his name the guy that went on oh you're talking about Jerry The King Lawler friend of mine uh you were there when he when he punched Andy Kaufman yes there for that okay so this is great let's let's let's talk about that I'll I'll talk about I love talking to Jerry Mulligan about that I love talking to all the people who are uh please tell me anything that you want to talk about that moment that was a crazy moment but one thing we got Andy which you never know what see it was so unreal that I kind of didn't know just like with um chrisen Glover you know he was because you you get into this mode where you almost think you know you're not in reality anymore and that's what happened there it's like one minute you know you're it's a segment and the next minute you're going oh my God I think that guy is like really hurting him you know and same thing with oh who was it uh Belzer Belzer got Belzer got and I was there when that happened wait are you talking about the moment with Hulk Hogan yeah no it was some other my Mr T Hulk Hogan and Mr T when he when he put him in a in a yeah you were there for that Holy Smokes that's a crazy moment that and here's the thing he fell to the floor and cracked his skull and blood started coming out yeah he he bought a he bought a he bought a place I think in France and called it sheay Hogan or something like that the lawsuit like it was you were oh my God those are two okay you're watching and here's what I tell people when I ran camera back in the 80s in the 70s at SNL right I mean at Saturday um oh God South Carolina ETV yes I was shooting this South Carolina history program and we it was a reproduction of a scene like from the you know early days like in the you know 1600s yeah and there was this guy who was sitting next to his son at a table and I was running camera on him and he was just supposed to sort of have a little fight with his son well he Foams at the mouth and Falls backwards and I follow him to the floor as a camera woman and and watching him thinking he's acting well guess what he was having he was having a fit he was having an epileptic fit and you know to this day I have moments where if someone goes if you see on camera or you're near someone if they have an epileptic I have like PTSD because I didn't think I thought it was I thought he was acting and I wasn't supposed to stop shooting you know and then you feel like the idiot that you didn't go oh my God this is real that's kind of the way I felt in those scenarios where you just go maybe I should be running in and you know you just say okay it's chiz but there's people's lives you know here it was very odd feeling I have to say so you probably you probably don't know this but uh Jerry Lawler um you know has gone on to become a a gigantic personality within the pro wrestling business um was a color commentator on on on world wrestling's entertainment's uh Flagship show raw uh one night during a telecast uh he's there and he had a heart attack on you know they moved the camera away and they moved it around it but a live show and Jerry actually that that that happened with Jerry actually um I want to say probably 10 years ago I worked the first um network uh it was called Saturday night main event and I worked all of them yeah I gotta have you back on for this are you kidding me I worked for dick EOL yeah of course yeah oh go that was his baby that was his baby yeah well he oh gosh my phone's dying but anyway okay well well okay we're gonna we we have to end it in a second here do you have anything else to say about that moment with Andy and Jerry because I you know in the wrestling business they call it a work um and and and that moment was a work and Dave was in on it really but very very very few other people were in on it no I had no idea I thought I was like yeah I I was scared yeah I mean I thought again like I should jump in it was just a shock you know I have to say you know in a way what happened with the Oscars and Chris Rock and and um and Will Smith yeah Will Smith I'm watching it live and I'm thinking it's it's a what what do you call a work it's a work it's a worked moment I thought that's a work those two of worked it out between the two of them right and I really thought for the until I want to say at least a couple of minutes in when you start to see the shock of people y I was like no that's that's them they you know those guys are friends they work this out this is just them kind of you know and I for at least a day I was convinced that they would come out and say both of us were just you know just making a making this you know an act kind of thing and then it took the long took like a day before I went because of my experience see and you know my husband and I are quick to go oh you know that's been planned we know that that you know why is the camera already there you know so you you get that way when you've been around it you know a little jaded almost it's almost a little jaded and you are preaching to the choir I am very very much that guy I I don't believe hardly any of these moments that happen until I have to be convinced basically because I've seen so many of these things and the only thing worse than entertainment is politics that way well and because I worked on two different presidential campaigns and oh my God behind the scenes and I'm telling you it's all set up you know it's like I worked um for a um John KY the John KY campaign I worked the woman who uh shot all of the Jumbotron pieces right last minute she just hired me last minute and I can't I mean I already knew because I had done I held Q cards for Ronald Reagan okay because one of the things we would do is these sort of remote kind of shoots every now and then Kevin would say hey we're going down to DC and we're gonna you know and I'd go with Al my my dear Al yeah who loved these kind of things oh yeah yeah loved it you know he come home and tell his you know kids that you know you know I talked I talked to the president you know and I was assigned SE to Ronald Reagan and you know if you're assigned to the president to do anything now clearly they don't have this worked out very well lately but you get your own secret service person and they're supposed to follow you around and make sure that you're not up to anything or vice versa yeah so I had my own secret service guy that would became I became friendly with them long story I I got him to do um research on my father-in-law my husband's father who I'm pretty sure was CIA after World War II whoa and if it wasn't for the Iran Contra affair that then basically closed down all the libraries um I think we would have found out because he had to call me up and say Eileen we can't do any more research because I'll get i'll get fired or put in jail I I need to ask you a question about that and then and unfortunately then we got to we then we got to close it up unfortunately I got no but I could do this all day and I can't wait to have your husband on I can't wait till we continue this uh I've got many many other questions I mean man you opened up a couple really interesting cans there at the end uh of things that you've done you are the qard girl uh did your Secret Service uh agent uh did he ask you if you have an arrangement no he didn't okay all right and for those who want to know what that's about Watch the watch the qard girl that's a great story is it's a great story oh it hook you right away great if if it wasn't the truth you know and that's the story of my life is that I painful and my husband as well we're both we are truth we are truthful to almost to a fault and a lot of times in work you know you get to a point and someone goes well you're gonna have to just lie about this and both of us would go no yeah we're not gonna do that I've done this a number of times I have great stories about pet cemetery too anyway but um because this you're so good at this and and we did talk about this and we are going to close it up but okay um I know that you've always wanted to do a talk show or this kind of stuff like you've always had that in you and and I and I just encourage you uh if the idea of a podcast you you I think you have a podcast in you for no outcome other than the enjoyment of the process I can't tell you how much well I can because I think you're feeling it too the time when you and I sat down and started this to right now as far as concerned we're outside of time and we're just having so much fun and we're in the flow of of what this this this creative conversation uh brings and in these stories it is a phenomenal phenomenal experience and and um I feel like you you would be really good at it if you decided to do one so well um the joy of my life right now is doing q&as with filmmakers after their film plays and doing interviews and I continued to do that I I did that for 10 years well I did it all through my career in festivals but um I do it at the Denver Film Festival every year and I do it throughout the year different times and I do it at Santa Fe International Film Festival and it's the greatest joy of my life because it is what I enjoy is to to be there and like I said I realized it's just what Q cards were which is you're just standing on the side going hey let me help you let me be here support you as you know because if you love something thing you want someone to do well in it Absolut and that's what I can sense and see i' I've really enjoyed people coming to me like Ken and yourself because I know you truly love what we do you know I would never talk to someone who wants to take people down or hurt their feelings or yeah no no you know it's not too much good to focus on that there's too much good so much there's just too much good um so much good yes this has been a Ian thank you so much I'm certain maybe maybe when hubby's on uh you know we have you both on as well maybe you come in at the end or something like that that would be a neat a neat thing um I want to talk to him about editing stupid pet tricks and whatnot and and some of the other things um you're a treat I appreciate you so much uh the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only that is hello- deli.com Rupert may not own the helloo deli anymore but he has hellodd deli.com and he is still the only place that you can get official l with David Letterman merchandise he's got shirts he's got mugs he's got hats and rert himself is the guy who packs it and sends it out so oh my god well look look this is I've got the one on here I've got I've got these These are from those days right from late night yeah yeah but this one is one of my favorites look at this one worldwide pants oh there you go you got a worldwide pants one too oh see I love that I love that so I never got I never got a jacket because I wasn't I wasn't considered fulltime you know but Kevin of course got the jackets out the ying-yang I should call him up and say hit him up for one absolutely um Eileen you're amazing thank you so much uh this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night over coat and Underpants