Zoran Zgonc Walked The Red Carpet At The Emmys And Became Foxhole Buddies With Will Forte While Researching For Letterman

my God I'm Steve Young you're watching the Letterman podcast I wasting I had welcome once again to the Letterman podcast um today is a very fun episode and and I just I really really love this uh beautiful long forign conversation relaxed but also just so heartfelt and fun um our guest today is Zoran zagon and and and Zoran um Zoran is just he's he's he's he's a an executive in the television world now um but he started his television career his career in the business as they like to say as a as a researcher for late show and and it's so cool this I all these episodes are just so precious to me uh because they are unique and this one here I think that we have had a tone many many times that we've set with first-time guests where we kind of go through okay well what got you into the business and all that and then sort of a a progression um like it's kind of like a timeline progression this episode is not like that well we did go into his background and and how he started we talked about uh one of the segments he was on um you know we talk about that early on um but then we just kind of go into the philosophy of different things in in in Letterman in the Letterman world of course and and people that he worked with and and what but in television in general and in in comedy the stories that he tells um at the the end of the episode he he goes into the people uh that were in worldwide pants that have affected him to this day um as as an executive in television uh you know doing very successful in what he does now he talks about some of the people that meant so much to him in the pants world and he forgets people you know to the point at the end you know after we stopped recording we were chitchatting for a little while and he I forgot to talk about Pat farmer pep farmer is one of my favorite people and and and and and and Lee Ellenberg oh my gosh we didn't talk about Lee and and that is exactly why we do this show it's to give the folks who were part of the greatest body of broadcast work in history that of David Letterman and Company it gives the company an Avenue to talk about how grateful they are for what they went through and and what they were a part of and if this show has any you know through lines of of of themes that have grown since we've started it that is certainly it you talk about the gratefulness that these people feel for this time and their lives uh the Emy story that he tells at the beginning of this episode when he went to the Emmys you know in the late 90s and and and I just he really does a good job of showing us what it was like to be there and to be a part of it and I think there's something communal in that I think we all have these experiences uh you know kind of before our our our our serious lives took off where we were our friends our family were our friends and um it certainly was that for him and and he just shares a lot of great stories about his time working for Late Show with David Letterman a lot of heart in this episode and a lot of just real thoughtfulness zoran's a really thoughtful guy and I just appreciate this episode very very much um we have one sponsor at the Letterman podcast that's hello- dell.com go to hell.com if you want uh Late Show with David Letterman merchandise rert G uh is the G of hellodd deli.com uh without further Ado so happy to present this episode of the Letterman podcast featuring Zoran sagon Zoran thank you so much for taking time to be on this thing today um I know you're in DC now you've been in DC for a while you do you miss Manhattan uh yes I do I mean DC DC is very it's arguably more International than New York City sure which is saying a lot yeah um but but also just uh I mean I was in Midtown and then my wife and I for good over a decade we were in the meat packing District we watched as that thing went from like the place where you went to shoot like the worst scenes in American Psycho y to um uh it's like an adult playground now you know with the Highline and I it's just fantastic so the city and you know I know this is not we're not going down political roads but when people talk about the cities and and all that crime and this it's like listen people are getting priced out yeah cities we want to stay there we can't yeah um companies can't even do that so they've got a whole extra laay of being like hey all right come on back we'll give you we we'll make it a little more cost effective they can pull that court anytime they want especially in New York and I just was looking this morning at something where they're building out a a bike way within the Time Square area that it's just like you think about a time square and a bike area come on that doesn't make any sense I mean like and in so much of that and I'm not forcing this segue but maybe perhaps I am is the you know having the late show and having everything there in and watching in my time period as that went went from the butt of Dave's jokes the primary butt of his like monologue jokes y to like hey you can't make fun of it as much anymore you know it's it's not I mean you still could and sure well at least we sell the Time Square Elmos at least we have those right that's right yeah until PBS comes cracking down on the um copyright infringement yeah yeah exactly um I think we're fine but um well they better be careful I hear those Elmos are packing um you know I uh I I I I'm super curious about your whole story and and I mean we're going to get to how you got to I I assume you didn't grow up in New York and and I want to I'm curious as how you got there uh but I do have one question before we start can you still do the Ukrainian Crouch can you still and we're gonna I love that you do your homework this is this is now now now I'm like going back to like is there anything I don't want to talk about no no no no that I definitely would love to talk about because that is a very much a part of my story and always will be yes okay so we'll bring everybody in right now no the answer is no I cannot anymore not even close I can't bend down to pick up a pencil without having something being like I got to see the chiropractor today kind it's it was extremely impressive and uh and and and I just wow like re-watching it again it's like oh humans can do some very interesting things that I can't do uh we're talking about a segment uh called everything is better when it hurts and uh that you were in it's it's it's um I don't know about famously but perhaps semi- famously Will Forte uh did his um uh favorite you know staff favorite moments uh for the Letterman Channel talking about his short stint as a writer on late show and and and in that segment uh Will Forte is there cutting his own hair but before that um Zoran is there doing a very impressive uh dance where he's down and then his foot is up way over his head and back down and then up and down that kind of that russan Ra Rasputin bony M kind of a thing um and it's uh it's it's extremely impressive uh is that is that something that you just learned it like when did you learn that how did you learn that move so here's the boy this is we're we're we're going deep in the woods here early I'm fine so I was born and raised in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania yeah um my mother is from Serbia my dad is slan from there uh you we talked once about like you and I about like some items which I have I could share with you and I have something my dad's um my dad uh was a very um accomplished cordium player and eventually became part of the paa Hall of Fame in uh Ohio check it out if especially it's a great it's a great mixup with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and then about a half hours drive down you go to I think uid Ohio and that's where the pa Hall of Fame is um I'm sure there's a tribute to Weird Al there oh uh Weird Al is actually related to Frankie Yankovic who literally is the the hulka King exactly Rust Belt so yes so Weir Weird Al was like we were he was a proud son of all of my dad's friends and stuff like that so um but but yeah and then my mother uh was very much involved in the the she did an ethnic radio show on the weekends in Pittsburgh sounds of Yugoslavia and she did that from the time that I would I could remember have any memories I would go on Sunday my dad would actually do the commercials with his American accent because my mother would butcher them in English and and I oh that's precious that's that's every Sunday every Sunday every Sunday 30 some years she did that program and so I was raised amongst so much of that and I'll explain a little bit later how my mom sort of you know but but you know I eventually got into TV certainly with that background and having that impression early on like hey you can do this stuff this is is achievable my brother actually my older brother is a successful sports writer in Pittsburgh and so much of that is again my mother's influence is just sort of being like hey anybody you know we can do this and this is pre I mean Beyond pre podcast you know yeah oh oh yeah obviously yeah for sure you're in the radio business but as a kid you're in around the the studio you're seeing people that are like like you say like close to you showing you that you can do this that is a major major leveling up for a young one um especially if you have Fascination did you have did you have fasc Fascination for it immediately oh I mean it I I was well okay so so now that that how does that tie into the Letterman stuff of it all was interesting and I will that does tie into the dancing too but as a kid my mother is a just a unique um style of uh raising your children my mother used to love to wake me up and say hey there's a great Carrie Grant movie on come downstairs with me oh yeah yeah yeah and she'd be like hey come come downstairs this is very fantastic movie Gregory peek you love it and I'd be like okay and but then also we kind of like she was a total night outl and my dad was the opposite and eventually I would start watching Carson with her and and then eventually I start watching I've been like trying to like hey can we just watch this David Letterman bit and yeah I don't and I I say this without any exaggeration without my mother doing what moms aren't necessarily supposed to do yeah had that not happened happened me getting the researcher job at Letterman might not have happened because this is way pre YouTube I'm not watching these old clips I just know them from having seen this stuff as it was happening you know I can my earliest memories of some of those appearances I I remember vividly the first time watching Dave he had had and I'm sorry I don't remember this but and you might know it's like it was somebody like a James brown or you know maybe somebody from like P Funk or something and they' come on and they were doing like that they were motioning the band to like hit the notes you know like this and then I remember Dave's monologue the next night was like he's like how come I can't get that Paul how come nobody's doing yeah and then's like oh yeah okay babe you know and then that started you know and then it was like the joke of the week yep and up until his retirement those little Jabs and things that was always and I just so it was like having those memories and having that know obviously there's another one I was trying to remember was like um the funniest thing still to this day is one of the top funniest jokes ever for me and which just left such an impression was the lamps Shades field package absolutely I mean when when that that cut to when he said says well I guess you'd have to go to a place where they just sell Shades or called just Shades and then just just bulbs and just Shades yep I mean and so I and I watched Carson all those years and that show biz style and that sort of like everything's slick even though Johnny was being more than just what the Rat Pack would do he was being slick he would stumble he'd do whatever to Dave's like you know out of control Spanish game show um but the most amazing thing is that that's what also made the show so damn hard to produce because you're actually trying to produce produce it to achieve it but his whole thing is to kind of chisel away from that and make it like where where can I take my Jabs and make this go out of control so anyway so again I I knew I was going to go way too far in the woods not at all this is what we do this is what we do sain oh good okay so also with that I then um at that same time growing up with so much like ethnicity stuff going on and here let me just share with you real quick while while we're talking about this yes like office area yes this is oh oh yeah yeah paa fever my my dad one of the original um carriers of the paa fever that's from his that's from his accordion uh say gone and that's right next to the coveted oh there it is yeah Letterman pencil and then this is a picture of me and my buddy roit at the um I want to say the 97 or 98 memes and that was for Letterman that was for Letterman yes oh man and oh my God we got to go back to that story because oh absolutely we're just getting started my friend absolutely yeah yeah so so so in Pittsburgh I grew up in a very the very ethnic community and in that ethnic Community um we had like a music and dance ensembles eventually um you could get a college performance scholarship for a group that has still exists to this day called the tamb britens um very proud to be a a member of that group group I had a full scholarship at the time that's not the case anymore with them unfortunately but we traveled did 8090 shows a year all across the United States I know you're like what is he talking no it's a no it's like a fraternity uh group that would that would that had a legacy and all that uh kind of like you know Mano no not mudo um it no but no no the whiff and poops I think is one yeah I kind of thing and it's it's it you know the it's musicians and dancers male and female we got on a bus we every weekend we'd be going off to some place like that if you guys get a chance the tamber riton T M bu r i t Za NS um they are phenomenal group they do all that Ukrainian dancing stuff I used to be able to do and all that stuff and so I did that and so my buddy Doug Mitchell who was a writer on the show uh at the time uh of that skit he came up with that skit and he asked me if I wanted to do that because he knew that I had that background and I'd actually taken him to see the show and other stuff like that and and uh and honestly I was like no I don't want to do it because I didn't want Dave or anyone to make fun of it because I just look come on I'm not going to have my friends my Pittsburgh friends or whatever yep I I don't want it to be and they convinced me they wasn't going to do that and and I'm so glad he didn't all I he convinced me because it's such a great thing to have and it is so funny that it comes I I so my mom any time I had appearances on the show she would record them on VHS and I I eventually got some of them transferred when when the show uh when Dave wrapped and retired and stuff I was like I got to put a couple of these online so that's when I found that and the funny thing is it it rolls right into will fores thing uh on the clip and it's just fun because it's like and it's like yeah we had very parallel careers will and I um that moment but you know but but the thing is is like I I will say that I I was buddies with Will at when we when he was at Letterman we actually we were both sing very single at the time were kids and uh we like would go to like McGee and hang out and yep flirt with girls and whatever and and then the again I'm bouncing all over the place but then I'm at the Letterman retirement uh farewell party that J Johnson brilliantly put together at the um my gosh help me out with is that the friers club or momma one of the CL the friers club one yeah oh my God and I didn't and I was such a like oh I this was my first time shockingly at the fire Friar Club too that was such an amazing to the point where we're in one room and I'm looking around and I'm saying to people hey this is wild there's so many pictures of Billy Crystal I mean they're like yeah this is the Billy Crystal room idiot um but it was you know it's kind of vibe and everything so anyway I I I'm like hanging out with somebody I come back down the stairs and I had no idea will was going to be there and oh man that's cool just goes hey zor come here like you g to take a picture um with with with some friends that we had T um that we had taken this picture back in the day when we all went to the emies um oh my God I gotta find that yeah man that's really really really cool holy cow talk about the C is now complete moment like in and and you've got a bunch of those that are happening but he's just a guy he he he's just such a good dude like it didn't even dawn on him that I'd be like will I didn't I didn't know that you still remembered me or gave a damn um but it was great you know and he was always such a nice dude um and could not be more like happy for his success over the years so well earned and well you know it's funny as you're as you're finding the picture of Will it's so we've had so many writers on the show and talking about you know being able to get that exact voice and and how many talented people have kind of come in and I mean you know it's so rare to get a guy like a Steve Young or someone like that who um you know could could really really really embrace the culture put it in the head and then write just in the voice of that culture Will Forte obviously extremely talented writer like I mean we're talking prolific um in in in the scale of of his talent um but yet you know only lasted a couple of cycles and it just wasn't wasn't the wasn't the right Alchemy but then you go and throw him on Saturday Night Live which you think would be a similar Alchemy uh but it just clicked perfectly for him and and and it's so interesting how that would happen we've talked about that in the past my my my friends and I we we talked about that with will because you he he was so super talented but then the things that I've read about him at SNL was that he was I mean and you look at the body of work that he did there that he was pretty out there for them yeah he was edgy and weird and he still Masters those characters um what's the one I think you should leave show oh yeah I think you should leave with Tim Robinson Tim Rob and one the one where he's playing the guy who in oh my God that is one of the funniest skits but and you can't I don't know how many people in the world can actually pull Will's character off well that's just it he's will like like yeah he just and it's so funny because it can be in a different context um you know you get these performers where where where um you know they can completely transform themselves or they can just just take a version of themsel and put thems into a different context Will Forte there is no there is no other there's no alternative to Will Forte he is unique and and uh that's one of the things that I love about him you talk about Tim Robinson um and and and I think you should leave I just uh about two months ago now I guess saw Dave interview uh Tim Robinson at the Netflix as a joke Comedy Festival in La yeah and it was and they didn't record it and I just I'm baffled that they didn't record there's three nights uh Dave interviewed Nate Nate bergi Sarah Silverman and then um Tim Robinson all on stage and it was it was uh the third show was the Tim Robinson one and boy was it interesting um imag hold on was that yeah yeah yeah yeah no problem at all no worries shows my dog just walked in and yeah no dogs uh dogs give us uh 15 extra listeners I don't know what that means um but no dog dogs pull well uh even on an audio or video podcast this is the YouTube version we'll see the dog uh the audio one we assure you um sa's dog did come into frame briefly we found the picture yeah so there is there's that is I think we just found the thumbnail for this episode that is oh that is cool like that is really really cool I'm the tall one will you know I would imagine we all know one the same the same roow hit guy from before who I mention and then Dena Rizo riy is a good friend who I think was the um she was the the reason that we all got together for that picture and Dina was a receptionist uh and we were kind of the like the funny stragglers at the Emmys who like you know they're people who were you know the the the life the Letterman lifers Y A lot of them were a little bit Jaded by that the rest of us oh my God this is awesome yes and I remember um the funny thing about that in that picture with roit was he and I we did uh we walked the red carpet and we were like walking the red carpet like roow was the assistant audience coordinator and I was like the the junior researcher Punk kid who just got that gig yep and I'm walking down and I'm I'm wearing a like a rented tux from like some dude in the Garment District who you know was just like yeah don't worry I give you a half price you know whatever and I'm like and I'm wearing this thing and my and roit his his tux was rented and at one point he's like I look like a magician and I was like yeah you do kind of so we're walking down the um the red carpet and just like could not not be more oh my God and then we we stop we finally get to the spot and then we look at each other and we go like let's go do it again so we turn around and we go do it again and this time we're like yeah uhhuh uhuh what's up and the and the and the guys who were taking the pictures are like on get lost kid it then we get up to the we get up to the end and there are that those those the phenomenal Letterman lifer type folks like Cav Kathy Maverick cockus uh Jill's life but Jill's oh my no oh no Jill yeah absolutely one of the best people on the planet yeah and uh and and they were all like we've been watching you guys you two are ridiculous and we we were like oh no we gonna get in trouble like you know it's so childish it's oh yeah but it was wonderful and then as the Emmys ended I mean we were in the nose bleed seats know who cares yep who cares it didn't matter we were at the freaking emmies but just to time stamp that for you y we leave somebody had said told us they were like hey you if you get out just a little bit before you can stand these are tips for you if you ever go to an award show particularly in the 90s if you go yeah absolutely machine I don't know that you can do these things now but but we go in the we go stand by the the limos the big SBS get out first yep so we are standing by the there and then they all start coming out and I'm telling you it's like you're those like those like night of aund stars on CB it was like that but it was all the different so it was like lit a Cavalcade of Television royalty is is is assaulting you is coming at you yeah the cast of Seinfeld yep of Larry Sanders was at the time was was a big one and Gary shaning was all those different folks but anyway it was just such a fun and it's just so funny because um swingers had just come out at the time John favro swingers yeah yeah yeah yeah so ancient but like yeah but that's our that's our that is our comfort food that is literally our generation's comfort food right there is what you're you're painting a picture of literally what we look back at our nostalgic days like our dads would look back at you know maybe waxing the car in the 50s or whatever you know this is you're talking about our comfort food right here oh so money and you don't even know it you're so money row and I would be saying that to each other my friend Lee we who we talk about Lee later for sure uh we we would just constantly be saying things to of that you know like quoting Vince Von back to each other at the bars or whatever and so we had a couple extra days and we went to the we had to go to the derby club man gotta go where it all comes from so we get in the cab you know and we're going and never neither one of us taking a we take cabs in New York those are 10-minute drives that's whatever 15 bucks you know like if you're really like splurging we get in this cab and we've got our jobs we got no money and the the things just keeps ticking up and Ticking up it was like cab ride to the derby because you don't take cabs in everyone's got a car y so so that was off then that was like literally like a Swinger's moment you know of of like you think you're cool you're not and this is oh my god well I'm really name dropping here I might as we're going for it here but so off the the the beaten path a little bit but this is my alltime favorite celebrity moment and it is kind of derivative of Letterman but we went there with a bunch of Letterman crew yeah those folks they rented a car they weren't idiots so we yeah so we all get there and I go over to the bar I'm wearing my like Vince Von swingers you know shirt and and stuff and thinking I'm cool and this uh they got the Daddyo swing music playing I don't remember forget who it was it wasn't Big Bad Voodoo Daddy but it was somebody who was on that sound that swinger soundtrack right yeah and I'm not making this story up but I'm standing there and pick again remember this is like 98 yep I I I uh this guy next to me goes oh man this band is really good huh and I was like yeah cool and I look and it's Robert Downey Jr shut up I'm not I I know this sounds like aect but also but also I remember the time Robert Downey Jor was not well no at no and God bless him everything he has done I'm so like yeah and I'm we just start talking about the music because I'm like was into it and I just figured this is cool so then I go back to the table and very rarely do you get these moments in life but I did get this moment where I sat back at the table and I told everybody I was just talking to Robert Dy Jr at the bar and they were like shut up man you're making that up there's no way without fail he walks by and he goes see I told you aren't they really good or whatever something like that to me and I was like yeah absolutely and then they all look back at me and I was like yeah yeah screw you to they'll have to like Mosaic out my middle fingers T but but that's basically what happened and it was such a that I eventually I got my Vince Von mojo back I was money at that point but but that was but but that is like my ultimate name dropping I won't go beyond that one oh no no no no no please do please do um and also you're you're uh you're on brand because you've we've now talked about two uh SNL alumni and it's interesting cause because because okay will Forte's alumni with uh with with with Leo you know uh uh you know not necessarily the longest Robert Downey jior who Saturday Night Live not necessarily the longest either uh yet both have gone on to be these uh Giants in their field and whatnot and it's it's it's it's interesting and by the way no pre-interview folks uh these themes just build themselves as does the organic magic that is the Letterman podcast no this is amazing and and how old like you're how old are you at this point you're you're you're 30 not even 30 no no no I'm like 25 or something this is all happening you know I'm thinking to myself I will I'll be going to the emms every year for the rest of my life that has not happened but I will say but regardless of that yep it was an amazing time period to be involved in that show there W there's any time period is was an amazing time to be part of that program to be Associated to be to have the opportunity to work with your childhood hero who absolutely was um I would say like oddly enough like the people who really taught me you know when you when you when you grow up with like kind of an ethnic background and everything like that and as the son of people you know this you you turn to television to kind of become what's your culture how do you see you know and you know my dad introduced me to like Abbott and Costello but my mother introduced me to toats and wono bdan and those are people you you have to look up but um yeah I haven't done that much research but I was that I failed the test you were testing me and I failed that one yeah yeah I don't I wouldn't expect James Lipton to to pull that one out so so you're fine um but at the same time like I would best where I was Finding stuffff like learning how to talk by watching Dave yeah me too yep absolutely right because he's a broadcaster first and that's I just find it interesting that you had this radio uh radio infusion early on in life well that's that's that's that's Dave's Roots is is is broadcasting and and uh it's it's funny Zoran like there are so many and it's funny you know um Mom and and Carson you're the first one it's it's for most other people I've had on the show it's Dad and Carson Dad Dad introduced the the Carson but yours is is is mom so lots of lots of things here that are showing the building of the foundation of what it took and again I cannot tell you um really it's I can tell you this and you probably completely understand it the audience the theme of people who have been on this show who worked for either production for late night or late show whether or not it was uh you know a summer ear internship all the way up to folks who lasted you know the whole time there are so many people that say th this was the greatest time of my life and they'll break out stories even a guy like like John Beckerman who has a you know a beautiful career in TV uh since and and has worked on projects as well he had a moment like that too where he was talking about how everyone was down in La for the for I think it was for the Emy actually think about it and he's in a shopping cart and someone I think it might have been even Jill was pushing him in a shopping cart and he almost got thrown into traffic and and and and and and these are the memories that he like these great moments that you're talking about here um you're part of a very unique fraternity and and and all seem to have memories that are just like this one maybe not swingers at the Derby club with Robert Downey Jr but they're all unique in their in their own right and it just goes to show the culture the interesting culture that was built um within your frat fraternity was was was really really cool it's so it's so true and I think that what I think is you that that the show it was a type of that that the way that that show worked worked obviously I'm telling you something you don't but just to for the sake of the conversation it it's you you were walking this tight rope of like things needed to collapse you know it's I've never I to that point how many years I've been in television and had a little small stint working up with for a film producer and stuff but everything the goal was never to to let anything collapse make sure everything worked to be achiev goal that we started with but there you started with this goal and it was like well let's see how we can unravel this yes and that was where the comedy and where the the humor came from and so it was that weird mix of that with these people who these folks who were just you know who' been with him forever who knew that and they were it it was almost like you know like being in the trenches with with these Veterans of this of this type of TV who would just be like yeah this is out worse kid you'll be all right like don't have a nervous breakdown this is he's supposed to make fun of what you just spent all he's supposed to mock it or ignore it or do whatever I mean I mean I can remember moments where you had um I actually the the best example of anything is a researcher that I had done in preparation for things yep um was the Farah facet interview you were the researcher on that I was the researcher on I was not the reason for it no just because I was the researcher doesn't mean no but you're setting you're setting volleyballs you're setting volleyballs and the and the job and maybe he's going to get up and Spike those ones maybe he's just going to set it back maybe he's going to bump it whatever but you're setting volleyballs for him to potentially Spike very interesting that you were the researcher on the Farah foset interview yeah so and to that point that volleyball um metaphor like I watch talk shows now yep I could tell you as I'm watching it you know oh they had that preset you know and you know more guys use it then and that others don't some will go to the lengths of which the movie company is asking you or the toy maker is asking yeah because the publicist is now involved now in a in a big way as well it's not just the sake of the conversation it's the sake of the strategy of the conversation as well that is a part of a consideration for sure and it was it was it was there back then and actually that's what made Rosie O'Donnell this sort of she almost became the opposite of Dave like Dave was the opposite of Carson she was the embracer the Super Fan like the shill almost the like Fallon is now he's a super fan and he'll be like oh look at this you know remember Glenn Close was on for like 101 Dalmations or something and I had this like they have a dog peeing like a little stuffed Dalmation toy and like Fallon would have brought that out and just giggled and I mean whatever so hilarious and like Letterman was like on a kick about astronomy at the time and just started asking Glenn Close about astronomy and she was like I have no idea what you're talking about and the audience was totally weirded out and I just the buckets of flop sweat and the as I'm watching this backstage being like Oh my God I'm gonna get yelled at for this um because he wasn't gonna do that you know and then so the ferah faucet thing she had just done this Playboy uh video about body painting yep so at least there was something there that Dave could kind of like latch on to a little bit but still not necessarily his yeah his style great no no no this this is good this is good the dog is back and we are excited this is good all right if you need to move him no no absolutely I'm leaving this in this stays in the glitch goes out this stays in yeah um so no so so the body painting thing whatever it I'm just thinking before the show like I don't know maybe he'll go with this we had other stuff with Charlie's Angel's moments she it had had been a while since I think she was on late night before that so she had never been on the the late the CBS show and so um she ends up like showing up like a half hour late maybe maybe more than that and everybody's just like we don't know I'm with the town Bookers and the great Joanna Jordan yeah oh I adore her I adore her yeah yeah I I I worked with her later and to help her like kind of start her company and now she is just a juggernaut she's a Powerhouse yeah the the the the main state of the the business but so she um we're all just like trying to figure out what's where is she what's going on yep and she shows up and it was clear to everyone that she was just completely wasted and they were like you know we need to go on because what are we gonna do and the publicist was kind of like all right just just let her go you know and because she was saying that she was fine so she goes on and I just I'd never seen anything like it I still haven't nope to this day where her head was at what was going on and I know that he was trying to help her bring her back but some of those things that I had prepped how do you throw to a Charlie's Angel's clip while somebody is just in complete train wreck mode yep um you can't you can't save the person um but they had a show to do and you know uh and obviously everything was which I love and I don't know to the extent I think that those shows the Late Night show these days still try to do everything in real time um yeah it's not like it's not like it was at Late Show you know what I just I shouldn't say that I just went and saw Kimmel not too long ago the same trip actually that I think about and and hey Joanna I love you I appreciate you she got me Joanna got me you know into the the VIP treatment at Kimmel I appreciate that very very very much um and and Kimmel does try and run it the way that you guys did and and we've talked about this on the show many times how it was like a live show you know the the band looked at it as the commercial breaks where no we're playing all the way through you go see F in these days The Roots uh you know they throw to a commercial they play eight bars or 10 bars of a song you know then there's silence and then okay we're coming back and then they play another 20 bars of another different song Another Part of the same song coming in whereas Paul and the B would play the whole time right like it would be and and and so yes I the the pace that what you're talking about was like a live Pace right yeah oh my God yeah I can still I hear two songs it's um oh gosh there was there were two warm-up songs before the show dance to the music yeah yep and the stones um oh yeah um oh man they're gonna kill Don Giller is gonna kill both of us right now for not uh just pulling this out of our the dance of the music is great to me because Eddie BR used to be the guy that would do the bass part he would come in and he would come in and do the bass part and I just I love that that's precious to me as well but yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Eddie uh was had just got the job I think as I was kind of exiting where and they had other people kind of bouncing around a little bit but they kind of landed on Ed which was which was wonderful but um uh oh my God it's gonna kill me but I can hear it in my head but nonetheless I still hear those songs I'll be in a supermarket and I hear it and my heart starts kind of beting a little bit like I was going to ask if you still dream about it I was ask if there are still these moments that trigger well well so I want to say that this is I realized after a certain period of time that despite the fact that the people there were wonderful despite the fact that I was able to work for my childhood hero and stuff like that that could not I just was not necessarily built for that type of program Y and I'd also was brand new I'd never done anything else and in TV I mean I literally went from like my job prior to being a CBS page and a letterman was working at Wendy's when I was 16 wow so it wasn't like I had I had something you know where I was like well you know somebody a mentor being like well you know TV is built of various different things or although we did have that as the at the page program yes and so that and I don't how much have you ever really gotten into the CBS page program uh I've the CBS page program not nearly as much because um you know the well I mean don't get me wrong we had Amy Sharon on here and and she talked a lot about it uh of course and um um you know so so yeah i' we we've gotten into it a little bit we've gotten into it a little bit but then you guys started running your own interns and like that in the internal you know so so um like the audience coordinators and all that sort of stuff you guys did a lot of that stuff that's the unique thing about this is that worldwide pants did so many of the things that the network would have had programs for yeah already except this is a worldwide pants production so a lot of it you did on you did on your own um and then there were Liaisons where the two would link up and the page program is one of the places where that would happen so that is that's correct yes and so that was my entry into the the show and that's where there was basically two ways at that time to get into the Late Show was through an internship or as a page yeah Janice was was Janice in charge of the that for you okay so she was okay she was instrumental on that um for the intern she certainly was Pages you know sometimes she was the audience coordinator and then then she um hired my good friend Sean gotle who still one of my best buddies and who's helped my career immensely over the years and Sean was the audience coordinator then I got to work with him as the assistant audience coordinator but um prior to that we were all pages at CBS and I mean still when we're all out having we're still all very good friends it's crazy it's like gr friends becomes your long like we're family at this point um and and so we all kind of grew up in the ranks together and we were very similar in that and anytime we still get together now we're just like man this could still be a TV show like us talking about our page days um I mean the the name we used the Funny Pages like and by the way the Funny Pages is that now sounds as dated because there are no Funny Pages no so I guess the name would be it would have to be a period Peak for sure sure but nonetheless it would be an interesting period because again we're talking about this time frame of like where Letterman Oscars yeah and then not to be really like bizarre with my my book ends here but like the 911 moments and stuff like that in between there was this this this moment of like the Innocence of the show was still there yep and of late night was still there the war was still going on with oh absolutely it was heated still but kind of coming off of that moment of where late show had just started and like how was Dave gonna position himself was he gonna mainstream himself more and he didn't and I for one am very thankful as a as a you know lifelong fan that he did not absolutely absolutely I the analogy in um I think it's in it's it's in late shift that Dave is um or that Jay is pop music and Dave is like Pink Floyd that's for me that's the perfect Perfect Analogy and he stayed Pink Floyd yes it went mainstream and there are folks who rail against us saying the Late Night show was the better better okay yeah but the idea that what you guys did on Late Show was the 11:30 uh uh offering at the Tiffany network is astounding to me because again uh uh the Ukrainian Crouch like I'm sorry you're not seeing that like you're not seeing bits like that you're not seeing things Alan couter the announcer like Allan cter I could do I would I wish I could do one of the things with Rick the reason the show started was because Alan cter passed away and it's like oh my God are you kidding me that guy would have done this show 15 times and every single time he would have done this show something more fun and like and that was the 11:30 offering and it was crazy that that would be the offering for that time slot for that work at that time even though yes perhaps The Late Show uh the Late Night show on NBC was a little bit more experimental and in your basement and whatnot but then take that theme you guys still Infuse that theme um into Late Show absolutely I I love the way you articulated that well I think and and what people don't remember about that transition is well number one it suffered from Dave having done so many years of late night same thing with Conan and The Tonight Show it's it's hard to then sort of say look I'm completely fresh I'm different now and also you you develop an edge the way that Conan has and then if you betray that people sniff that out the the lack of authenticity yep I think some of the stuff like and I'm not bashing like Co bear or I don't want to whatever no but I'm not I'm it's not my end of the business but I still like I applaud people on I bow to them to for them to still be able to that job is something that I just didn't have the the the you know the you weren't wired for it long term yeah yeah I just like you know you burn out quickly if you're not careful and and I think you know Cheryl zelon who is at the Who music producer like person she brought a lot of that great stuff to coar and I think they've since been a lot more mainstream their music choices and whatever and that's fair that's what they're entitled to that stuff although Chris looked I don't know that guy that's all I want to say about him but I guess um sometimes resume is a little bigger than your actual uh anyway um but so but Morning Joe maybe anyway okay I'm not finishing those sentences for oh no I get it I get it this is great messes received but yeah but my point is is like Dave was like no this is the what got me here this is what I am this is what I do and and that's what he kind of stuck through I will say that I think that like it probably became harder well past my time but it probably became harder to to do it and I think because CBS never I don't think CBS has ever owned who they are um until fairly recently y feel like they were always sort of like trying to be a bunch of different things and different nights yep whereas NBC was has if you just look at the basic networks the old foundational networks because of SNL and because of the Tonight Show and because letter mhm they were traditionally the cool kids or the the snark Network or the people that away with that yeah you take Dave onto the as you said the Tiffany Network and at the time my God they were just complet I mean Central Park West and Y these shows they were trying to do that they were just trying to be other different it made no sense no and eventually they land on the csis and the other kind of thing but even then it was still kind of like you didn't know I mean CBS was known re really for 60 minutes and for the news end of it yeah sure but then even then then the 60 Minutes has maintained its ratings or whatever but the news stuff has dived considerably in terms of ratings and terms of like their their their level of notoriety with cronite certainly and stuff so and Dan Rather I love Dan Rather but was a weird dude I mean like it's not like you C you can have fun with Tom broke um yeah too much fun with Brian Williams oh yeah too much trying too hard and then then you have Dan Rather he's doing like singing train songs and stuff you like what the what's the frequency Kenneth yeah yeah yeah that that that was if you're known for that more than you are being like you know stopping the putting an end to the Vietnam War like kronite but you know there's a difference so all those things I think made it a lot harder for for those folks to to maintain that that edge and to do things the way they used to be able to do it and for Jay Leno to be so accepting of whatever it is the the pr folks wanted or whatever and yep he embraced pop music totally I mean he embraced pop the pop of everything and it wasn't music analogy absolutely the truth of it all and it's kind of a you know again as as a fan it's a it's a bummer but but it's not because that Legacy I mean I don't I like but what is Jay Leno's Legacy compared comparatively I think it's the monologue I think it's he's a joke machine I think it's I think it's you know he's going to go up and do uh you know as many jokes as he possibly can and and whatnot whereas again the comedian versus the broadcaster we go back you talk about cbs's Legacy for a second I just want to you know there there are so many times that people are like okay so the at the time uh CBS lost the NFL and and and and oh so what they lost the NFL why would why would they keep saying that that is affecting you that was part of that identity you know CB 60 Minutes the NFL Murder She Wrote like these are the things that CBS is kind of known for and suddenly this a big chunk of it back then and and this is before the expanse of of of sports coverage and things like that losing the NFL was a huge deal and and and it through CBS on the on the on the ropes and um um you know you guys at the really at the end of the day at when when when when late show started um and they weren't from an affiliate standpoint they shouldn't have gone to number one they shouldn't have been able to do it and that is the power of of of what was happening uh the power of the interest and whatnot for that eight first 18 months the idea that that CBS was number one in that time slot it actually Strate it shouldn't have kind of happened logistically it shouldn't have been able to happen but it did and then suddenly part's over lost the NFL things are going down and then we get to this phase that you're talking about and these are your years um where where where the show was sort of trying to find itself but it was also um you know there were elements where it did stick to its roots but they replaced people who had been there for a long time and and and and so you know when that happens when you upset the apple cart the apples are going to settle in different ways um fascinating time for you to be there from a television history standpoint oh my gosh then add you know the Ed suvan theater and how does that play into it and what lessons that could be learned from doing a show there versus versus what was done you know the NBC Studio lended itself to that halfhazard craziness um way better than Ed suan Theater which was just a more more polished amazing location stuff the other thing too is is just to bring up also the Oscars yeah which which I I was thinking about this before we before this conversation and I was like I would almost compare that Oscar's appearance to like I was thinking like the Howard Dean screen do you know what I'm talking about I don't okay yes of course of course yes yes yes yes yes I do right so Howard Dean goes like you know he's he's he's he's on a role versus uh to be George Bush uh in you know uh competitor in 2004 he go we're going to go and he screams and then suddenly it's everywhere and people are like what did you hear him scream it's crazy then he scream like that and now we look back on that compared to what we've been doing what we've seen in the last few years in American politics and you're try to explain that to somebody who didn't live through it doesn't compute yep and frankly this same could be said for Letterman's Oscar appearance absolutely no one is allowed to succeed as the host of the Oscars anymore yep no one's allowed to host anything and succeed anymore there's just too many there are too many critics yep and Ricky deras oh stands out as somebody who does does the emies I mean honestly I I have trouble watching him because it's just it's too much cringe yeah but he's like try the gold are you talking about Ricky J Golden Globe Ricky J yeah yeah yeah yeah but he just didn't give a to the point where he rose above it all and just does not care or at least that's the at least that's the theme of what he's putting out there yeah um you know but yeah and I think that and I think that when Dave did the Oscars it was this was I was just talk about my God I was just coming into the page program holy smokes yeah I'm like I'm like I'm honestly I'm like two weeks in I had just gotten done reading the late shift and I was like can't believe I'm involved in this I cannot believe this is happening this is my life I'm watching the Oscars and I'm like this was fantastic and then the next day like picking up a newspaper because that's what you did back then Y and you look at it and go wait that was bad yeah oh yeah yeah I didn't know that just like Howard Dean wait he what did he do he just made a noise I don't who gives a damn and now you see not only are people not allowed to succeed nobody ever does well doing those things but they've also copied so much of what was done on on that night the type of jokes they they they did certainly Billy Crystal then I think took Letterman's like Preamble like being in the movie kind of thing um just a lot of stuff so so anyway so it's just it's it's a weird my other sort of two sense about about the show and the the legacy of it is I think that they probably after a certain point probably wanted to do stuff a little bit more serious and like have those moments because he had it back in the day yep I mean you know really intellectual dick Cavit like bookings and he was doing that stuff and and but there was a so excuse me there was like a talent booking war and we got to get so and so on again and you don't have time for that stuff anymore you can't do that at 11:30 there's a there's a war uh that's being waged here and so when you look back now and really like how what's the monetary worth of of these things is there's there's all different answers to that but I think one of them is is like what are the what are the things that people will seek out on YouTube what Clips do they watch yep and I for one when I'm having a bad day I I watch Don Rickles on anything yeah and I'm just like all right that's good but you know those things aside or you know Bill bur on Conan orill another like there's so many great late night guests now still to this day and mine's nor McDonald I go back and I watch nor McDonald on anything I watch him on I watch him on Letterman I watch him on Conan I watch him on Tom Green I watch him I I just nor McDonald's my guy one of the things that Conan got uh you know The Tonight Show one of the notes that he got you're putting on nor McDonald too much are you kidding me and that's one of the reasons why he lost the Tonight Show was things like that are you kidding me so you're talking about these ahead of their time kind of moments where oh you know yeah actually he's actually there's there's another one I mean look at that guy's Legacy is the same thing if he abides by what they had asked him to do Don and the OJ Simpson and SNL instead the Legacy he's left he's he's created for himself he is I mean at after his death you could just start to feel it oh yeah now he's now like becoming like an andic cofman right he's an anti-establishment icon absolutely and Dave certainly that Lake Show didn't didn't maintain it like as as you know it's just it's it's impossible but at the same time like there's so much um it's it's such a difficult uphill battle to do all those things and to and to keep that going and I and I think he I think he did at his best as anybody possibly could in his situation and my career now working in TV yep I so I develop TV shows I develop stuff I work for this great company called mcgilla entertainment and we developed shows non-fiction shows unscripted reality documentaries true some good stuff go let's go down the list a little bit of some of the stuff that you've done like let's not I I you you can be as uh you know as humble as you want with it but let's you've got some pretty cool stuff that you have uh been a part of well I and mcgilla does great shows for Discovery and you know Moonshiners we have uh brothers and Long Island Medium has been you know a lot of great iconic programs and you know we continue to try to do different programming that is you know there's the mainstream appeal but then there's like this really cool substantive doc style thing we want to do it's interesting yeah well what it is what it is is it's it's something that gets loss especially on like younger YouTube YouTubers and other people is is you still have to you still have to be entertaining it still has to be entertaining it still has to have a little bit of the pop stuff I mean Pink Floyd is great but if you're going if everything was the wall or the Beast or the second side of the album you'd be like oh my God I oh no the genius the talent and the genius still has to be there uh the Alchemy again of interesting and entertaining and and and all that yeah you have to have that yeah and so I think that that's something that that show and something that that style of when you put it through the filter through Dave's filter yep of like what does he want what kind of jokes does he want to tell what does he not want to do like that as I mentioned the stuff dog in the Glen Coast close he would not do that I should not had that waiting for him like if anything I set him off and my apologies misos for appearance in 1997 that's my bad but at the same and but again fos that's on you but anyway but but those kind of things like that is that is what made him so real and so good and you mentioned John Beckerman like yeah the the writers that came through there the guys who were so damn funny and it gone on went on to do incredible yep um while I was there I was fortunate to have been around like John Beckerman yep um also a fellow pittsburgher which is awesome and um you know certainly Rob yep um was great always very nice to me and good guy and Tim long yeah I I desperately want to have fellow Canadian Tim long on here I desperately want that oh that he would be such a such a great guest and and I mean talk about a legacy The Simpsons the stuff that he's done since you know Oscar winner they won the Oscar for spiderverse thing and super great guy um was like the little wonder he was like the little Doogie Hower when I was there it was because he was like I think he was might have been 12 after he like graduated Harvard yep um but he I I say that he he was probably like two years younger than me yeah yeah yeah yeah but still just but didn't matter because you know that's that's when age still was you know calculated that way when you're young and you're kind of my God he's 22 and now he's like and he like shot up to be like a head writer and stuff and and then Craig and Carter oh yeah and CRA they took they took McGee and made a hit show out of it like it's so interesting my God we're gonna have them they're by the way um I just was uh we're going to have both of them on at the same time that's going to be a lot of fun having the two of them on here at the same time that that's an up probably in the fall we're going to shoot that but yeah and the stangle brothers the sangles absolutely Were You There When Louie was there because again you talk about a guy like will and then you talk about a guy like Louie like like oh my God Lou talk about prolific and whatnot but at the same time doesn't you must have been there when Louie was there I was there Not only was I there and this is another weird name drop thing but I so I was I was a researcher with Tom rub yeah oh Tommy I love that guy one of one of the best characters ever just just a crazy like fun dude and he was so he was the head researcher and he was so good to me at that time and stuff and um and Josh weintrob who I believe is still at um at Kimmel is that Kimmel or or k coar or Kimmel he's at Kimmel okay yeah and Josh and we were so we were the time that I was there so Louis CK was was it upstairs from us or something like that yeah and he would be hitting we just kept hearing his thud on and on and it was like what is this noise like somebody keeps so finally like rpre is getting so angry and he goes upstairs and he finds out that it was Lou CK was like as he writes he like he keeps holding a baseball bat and just keeps dropping it on the floor and just kept like you know like kind of thought as thinking it was his way of thinking and it just kept going on and then he he didn't last like a cycle and it was on his I think something like that it was not long and it was I think it was his own doing he was just like I I want to go off and do my own thing and good for him obviously that sure yeah no no no but but it was but I just remember that sort of like Tom coming back and being like oh Lou CK is here and whatever and I I don't even think he said it that way I think about that now because Lou CK was not he wasn't Louis K eventually became yeah he was just this you know also also kind of a wondering guy and also when we were Pages yeah and that's why I'm saying like we got to do G have you set you up with like a bunch of my my CBS page groups because yep we did the Dana Carvey Show oh my God that's fantastic I didn't know that the CBS pages did the really so now let me get into the page thing a little because I think researchers I got as much and I will one other thing shout out to Nick PR who your I adore Nick PR and everything he does and also one of the best if not the best follows on social media he is insane I don't there's I've never there are people who like live their life life like an art like like it's their art Nick PR does that it is some weird art it's like the magazine cover that he makes and puts in Waiting rooms it's like his art is like those like you know the Velvet painting that he would find at a at a thrift store yep that that's the art that he created for his and it's just the best follow in the world yep but anyway so but th those folks aside so now I'm like I go to college doing my thing I get I did a college TV show comedy thing with two other guys it felt very I mean you will look at it now and you like oh my God you are you look like you're impersonating Letterman because that's what we all did back then so I got the college evv show my then girlfriend like sent these things to ABC CBS having no idea what they were CBS News the woman who ran the intern program there Jeran Richie she's like calls me up and goes honey do you have any idea what we do here at CBS News why would you send me this thing and I was like I'm so sorry ma'am she's like busting my balls and basically she goes I'm I'm busting your chops just come come here if you you want a summer internship come visit me in New York I was like I couldn't believe it it actually paid off so I get the internship at CBS News I become a Page by way of the guy who the internship who was in page before me yep and the page program will always be the best job I'll ever have in my entire life oh I love hearing this yep cause you couldn't really screw it up you really you have to try hard to screw this up um and it was a it was a you were part of a fraternity that was like best friends with the sorority yeah of people who all fancy themselves class clowns yep who all imitated Letterman who did whatever or some who were destined to be on actual TV which we we have a few of those in our alumni and so I get this page job and the Brilliance and I I got to say when they switched it to just have full-time Pages at Letterman it's was a major bummer for all of us because no more hopping no more hopping from the different places at that point yeah and also and also you lose that connection that you could have had more of with the broadcast Center I think Dave's relationship with CBS was just like screw these guys they're not helping me and I and I don't know maybe mistake I don't know who am I but the broadcast center for the folks it's like 57th Street West 57th it's the The Hub of CBS News and that's also where the page program uh the page uh offices were and so in the mornings you worked at the broadcast Center and you worked for the various it was maybe the events department or whatever but primarily it was with NOS so you work at 60 Minutes you would work at 48 hours which I did I was at 48 Hours most of the my time in the mornings and then around two or three o'clock you grab your your late show or your CBS Blazer and your gray pants um and your your Navy blazer with the CBS eye patch yep and you're ugly yellow tie and you make your way over to the The Late Show we had lockers we got in our outfits and we went down and we did the the show but at the broadcast Center in the mornings the jobs were hysterical in retrospect and some of the funniest stuff we have we we guys who like I said we had guy now who's was a as a Weatherman in in Miami yeah stevea and um a couple others who went on to to to be on camera um a lot of people still in news at Sunday morning and a lot of those jobs the 60 Minutes you had um I mean we had interaction with Andy Rooney uh Mike Wallace we had one guy our friend John Bobby was standing in the the the rotating doors you know yeah talking to us or whatever and Mike Wallace just was like you know that guy didn't give a he just was Mike Wallace you know get get out of my way I'm Mike Wallace and he literally pushed our friend into the the double doors to get him moving and then went on the other end and then kept Mo and my friend John's like what just happened he looks back and it's Mike Wallace the guy just like you know and I was on the film of the on he's like get me so and so and you know and I'm like can I say his calling he's like it's Mike walls like you know don't you recognize the voice oh my God yeah and Andy Rooney like we'd see him in the in the cafeteria the called station break at at the broadcast Center eating a a ham sandwich Amy shearon I'm sure was shared a lot of these great stories and and stuff and and then as a then as a page um you know did I don't know if she broke down the various positions somewhat she went more on the on the Letterman side so no this is great I love hearing this side on the CBS side good yeah so that's where it was like like the station break it was hysterical I mean the place called station break you cafeteria I don't even know if they still do stuff like that anymore like because every place feels like a cafeteria at the the food places in Manhattan St know like you just eat your take your salad put it in here put in this bucket and get ins get out of here you know yep that back then it was way more like you'd sit down and have a me meal or You' go to the deli and you'd order corn beef sandwich but but station break was that before all those things we we would eat there and um surrounded by posters of uh failed or failing CBS shows you know and and just talk about various like funny stories or whatever and then but the coveted jobs certainly was was Letterman yeah was was could you get that job could you land that position and you know then as as I'm sure Amy might have said it's like you have these various positions you you started at the bottom literally Bott of the place the the D page I want to say because it was letters would signify your position the D was the bathroom page it's the bathroom because that's where you basically just stood there in front of the control room and when people would come down and he'd say oh yeah men's room's here women's room's here and that's all you did but Dave would run through as part of his his you know show tradition pre y he just kind of runs he ran to get his energy up he to he raised his vibration by by physically literally physically raising his vibration including running out onto the stage but he would he had a preamble for for that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and so and so that was like the excitement of so every position had some level of Interest or excitement you had like you know the key page you were in charge that you you had to build up to that man yeah like you don't you you gota you got to earn that key page position um and then the the backstage page though was was arguably the most like coveted because it's where you literally would you bring the celebrities in you know we would you'd end up like in the in the back end of Like Us magazine but when we magazines hold the door for someone yeah yeah like uh you know the cast of Friends and you're just like there's a picture like you're just staring awkwardly into like some Paparazzi and like dude check it out I'm in you know us I'm in you know my my mom will get excited you know at seeing me at the supermarket um so you know things like that were just super fun about but it was just like it was such an amazing opportunity to ease my way into TV and to get comfortable with having this overwhelming number of celebrity and these other kind of people and um in your life and and so at Letterman oh that was oh then there was the speech page I don't know that Amy so nope what's the speech page that and ultimately became I would say the key page is obviously in the backstage but then the speech you were we would rotate I think you do like for a full week we would have somebody do it and then we'd switch off so you basically it's the speech that you have to memorize that you deliver to the audience before they go into the show oh yeah that has evolved oh yeah okay so the early Incarnation is very different than the end Incarnation with the audience coordinators who would kind of indoctrinate different groups as they would come into the Ed Sullivan Theater you were there when it was still CBS Pages doing it okay yes the speech page yep yes and so oh my God I can't I mean I just remember the beginning was like Hey everybody Welcome to The Late Show um you know and we all oh and we all was fully scripted it was memorized this like it's lines in a play and you're you're you're doing it yeah but but there were everybody was want to be comedian so we all had our bits and we all had our things and we would compare notes afterwards and be like this really worked this worked here oh this died here don't say that oh I'm no no no kidding like like uh my buddy the before mentioned roit was was the look phenomenal at it because he's like a super positive energy like Dave ended up flying him out to like different when they would do shows in Denver and other places like that he would be he was dialed in yeah yeah yeah he could transfer his energy onto others and all of you know absolutely yeah and so I know a little about that I'm I'm I'm kind of that guy in my my yeah I'm kind of that guy in my friend group and in my office yeah yes yes like things are not as much fun without you without oh well I wouldn't go that far with me but with Rohan for or with uh what's his name Rohan roit roit with him yeah yeah oh no no he he's just there's an energy about him of friendliness that that is like it's it's infectious it's definitely yeah yeah um and so my thing was just like you know they Welcome To Late Show my name is zoren gon yes that is my real name you know like dumb really bad just so like what is it what like sometimes that get a they were just like what does he say but the one time that I did and oh my God it was just the stupid this is so stupid but it Letterman uh show 96 something like that yep hurricane um not hurricane excuse me Blizzard of New York City yeah massive blizzard and it really hit Midtown and town was unprepared yep Late Show is like we going to do this yes let's do the show but that early afternoon they the pages are like get out of your 60 Minutes jobs whatever wherever you are go help the Letterman audience coordinators to find an audience at the city so we were grabbing people off the street and saying hey you want to come see the show you want to come see they're like what really yeah come on but in a blizzard yeah yeah yeah so we're also like wrapped up and me hey what are you doing you know and and you know you could after a short period of time in New York you can tell who's the tourist pretty quickly and just grab so we grab them and weather is like it's the snow's on the ground it's not as though we're like it's it's you know horrifying like in your- face snow but um line everybody up and I happen to be the speech page that night and I'm hyping this up way too much or that day this up tooo much but but basically I think you'll appreciate the reference is I'm giving the speech and this audience is so excited to be there they are Beyond they can't even believe what's happening like they've all just won the lottery yep and and this guy makes some comment as I said something and I don't know if you're familiar with the Steve Martin comedy albums back in the oh yeah oh yeah okay so you know the it's like so cliche now but the um a Heckler says something to him and and Steve Martin says yeah I remember my first beer and the audience erupts with laughter so I remembered that oh and I said it and it got the biggest laugh and I swear I it was like I was I was a late night King for for a five second moment and it was so wonderful it was such a so stupid to bring that story up but no it's not this is the stuff we love but but that's where you're living this vicarious thing through having to being forced to like essentially do almost like a standup bit yep for your comedy Idol yes get excited to go to do to watch the show yes that is beyond words it's and also when you worked at these other places yeah you were answering the phone you weren't really doing much of anything there maybe an Excel sheet once on a blue moon um but even then they'd be like ah you're fine just go answer the phone stop don't T anything technical um and so so and so it was that was a wonderful that was a wonderful experience and everything like um to just sort of to have that entrance into it and and then from there on like working as a as a researcher yeah it it just was it was an immense amount of pressure over time and there was such an immense pressure on the show that was alleviated by them making certain moves and things because Dave felt oh I needed I need more I need my own people with the audience or I need this or that but as a researcher then he hadn't done those things yep and again there was just this unnecessary pressure that we don't see as much now on Late Night hosts like you now have to you don't have to be the king of late night yeah you're just a late night and by the way the other thing too is all these people who go oh we have all these late night shows this is how TV originally started everyone had variety shows yeah exactly you know I mean Jackie gleon uh Milton Burl yep Jack Benny whoever the first incarnation of The Tonight Show was a variety show Absolutely like yes so so everything old is New Again and I mean now we're even talking about doing more branded content and so you know the sonoko hour is you know just around the corner it's all coming back and we we we've actually talked about this on on this show as well too how how how the old becomes new again and it's all cyclical and it all revolves around advertising um we had a guy by the name of George schwitzer on uh early on and he was the head of CBS marketing for well he was there for five decades he was on like literally 50 years and and and and how really at the end of the day advertising is what drives TV it always has driven TV and and and and the old becomes new again this branded content you're talking about I need to go back to something that you you said about the page program then I want to get to researching for a second because and I did forget about something else about go ahead no no okay no no okay put a pin in it can you put a pin in it okay so so what you just you just encapsulated why we're doing this show uh by talking about you were so eloquent in talking about what it was like to do this speech and to kill in front of these people on behalf of your comedy icon like you just encapsulate see what we the tagline for this show is uh we're a celebration of the greatest body of broadcast work in history that of David Letterman and Company and it's the company like because he again I don't think that there is a better broadcaster in the history of Television than Dave but then he surrounds himself with people who also believe that and want to do their very best to create uh the the company around that and it's and and and you just did a beautiful job talking about uh you know basically just taking the spirit of our tagline and and and and putting in that so thank you for saying that I just want to appreciate that uh let you know I appreciate that um back when you were a researcher the internet was there but it's the infancy we talked to Tommy about this we' talked to other researchers talked to Nick Nick about it that that sort of thing but being a researcher back then and and and I I I wanted to ask you this question um because being a researcher back then yes it preps you to be a segment producer it preps you it preps you for all sorts of things in television and when you look at what you have moved on to now and where you're at now I would bet every dollar in my pocket that a lot of the skills you still use every day today are built back on being a researcher before the internet and having to think around corners and having to understand the different trajectories of every potential thing you put down on that piece of paper never mind Gathering which ones are going to be on the piece of paper which is which ones stay off the piece of paper I I can only imagine that that job back then in the way that it was prepped you for what you're doing today in television so that was one of the questions I wanted to ask you today oh absolutely I I mean I think well first and foremost is is being factually correct because you're never going to I mean you can I can do something now or I put together a pitch deck or I'm putting together story lines for EP episode examples or whatever yep and eventually that will come on the air that people will then you know have to say Okay this was correct or that was it goes through legal it goes through whatever but you're talking about like talking to Nicole Kidman about her vacation and did this monkey really bit her on the you know the foot and whatever and and it's like you better get that right and and back then there wasn't a Google oh my God no nope there wasn't a Google there and Chucky the great Chucky like would set us up like he he did some like um I think we he made our like main Pages at the time I remember that being like this dramatic moment where he was like oh The Drudge Report was like kind of the first like kind of aggregate place you know eventually like a huffing post and other places like that start to do it yeah but he set that up and it was like well this is where a lot of you can a necessarily sourcing the magazines because you still had interns going to the the New York library and going to find stuff or you know then still to this day you're G to have researchers reading the the books the biographies and the different things yep yep I actually realized you know you know RFK Jr is running for president right now I read his book when he was on The Late Show wow many many moons ago and uh and you know my God some of the other ones that I had to read for the show like Sinbad I'm sure it was a great read it it was a real page Turner I God bless him a very funny cute com meting but like I don't know if a book needs to be written that involves a chapter where your your mama slaps your butt off your body and it was like a whole joke that went on for like 10 pages of she'd hit me so bad my butt would anyway was like stuff like that that was like uh Gary Marshall was on show wow I I still have that book wake me when it's funny that was a great book because was that when he was promoting exit Eden uh might have been I think it was anyway yeah he was hyping that film up like crazy because that oh yeah anyway anyway yeah so you read Gary Marshall's book but his like you know that was for me that was like you know Candy those are just like every every but inch of that you know all this kind of legendary stuff and everything but like but yeah like that that is an amazing experience of and again it's funny because it's like you know the going from from the page program where it was just like whatever these people love me I can just you know to being like Oh my God I got to get that information exactly right or you know where where can I find this old commercial um and some of those things so I use all that stuff today I use um never get a celebrity's name the spelling misspelled yeah like I'll look through that stuff and I when I work with young people now I'm just saying like you have to get these things correct you just can't you this is you know no one else is going to do this work for you and you can't just assume that well someone else can go and do the research or whatever um because it almost feels that way you could anybody I don't want to say it's still very hard in fact it's probably harder now to do a research job because there are so many more shows there are so many more podcasts where are you going to find that original story where are you going to find that original piece of old footage or or that thing that's going to make it feel different and make it feel new and and um you know I can't even mind that boggles my mind to even think like what you could possibly do I think I seem to remember people recording Leno and and uh and Conan and we would watch those segments if those guests had appeared on their those shows just before we would watch them or whatever so you could do something different yeah yeah so to avoid um doing anything the same but but yeah there that's an amazing thing oh this is what I wanted to say sorry though about page program I have no good Segway into this that's okay you want to flip that's that's we don't need them no no no no we don't need them okay all right but I I meant to say one additional part of the page program it was the not just working on Letterman as far as the shows go but also some other TV shows that we worked on that were at the broadcast Center and the broadcast Center wasn't just offices there were massive TV studios there yep so you weren't just doing the green screen you know tick tick tick 60 Minutes thing As the World Turns was there um maybe not guiding l I think that was in LA I think as the world TS maybe was the only soap opera soap opera but you go in and there's like you know there's the doctor's office and there's the whatever an old school three camera shoot TV going on so phenomenal and also understandable why you know those shows don't exist as much or if at all anymore because they were ridiculously expensive to make a lot of Real Estate yeah and and so and Union and whatever and all this stuff y but but the late but we did there were there was the the the the age of daytime talk shows so haraldo was there um and man gu that's craziness there there's an episode right there by the way we could do an entire episode on that very easily and uh and the and the people that want to haraldo there was like three or four people that went to every episode of Heraldo wow uh people can remember the other pages will remember this better than me but and they were they were some imagine yeah the type of people you would be like you be like I bet you you've gone to every episode of the daytime talk show of araldo you strike me either that or your a serial killer one of the two and then and there are those folks and there was the other daytime Charles Perez but then we did Chris Rock show the HBO show wow out of the broadcast Center yeah um oh that show was that show was oh oh that show was fire that show was awesome brilliant stuff and then speaking of brilliant um was the Dana Carvey Show there we go oh Politically Incorrect that was the other one oh oh wow Omar is Politically Incorrect show yes um and that was pretty interesting uh to be working on that um again just as a page but but still just to to kind of see how that those shows un y Dana Carvey thing was unbelievable speaking of Branded TV the Mountain Dew Dana Carvey Show yes that was genius yes yes and also and also you got figured to like so Dana Carvey passes on doing U late night right you know he was offered Conan's he's like y whoever does this is Never Gonna never gonna make it in TV props massively to Conan definable like that alone is is one of the most incredible achievements in TV history and entertainment history absolutely able to especially when we all looked at that guy and you talk about broadcasters yep you had to have t TV chops Dave had that as a weatherman or whatever you had to have a certain look you had to be from the Midwest you had to have a certain name you had to have a let alone this like red haired like freakish tall Irish dude from Boston like we were all and the laugh we were just like every what is Yep this this guy's never like like we all hated him yep and now I I actively seek out his old shows and his podcast is one of the best things that exists could not agree more anyway but so you have so so at that time the Dana Carvey thing like that show we have as Pages we all had front row seats to that thing because the audience wasn't that big it was like 250 I don't know whatever it was it was not that big of an audience yeah he kind of kind of just brought them in and just babysat these people and that was it and we would sit there and we would watch Louis CK who still had all his hair still whatever it was like talk about like kind of orange paired freakish guy yeah super young like who is this dude he looked like one of us and you know age wise and everything same with the other ones Cole be Steve Carell I swear to you I remember watching Steve Carell just yelling a lot and I and I remember saying to myself like I'm not even making this I just being like this dude is never going to make it at all Co bear I was just like I don't know he's what's the big deal like y yeah just they're just there yeah and just you had every you put everybody through not just the Letterman lens but also the SNL lens definitely could see him and go like oh he's glass like I can't think of any SNL person who ever had glass you know stupid stuff like that yeah um well and it was it was an app comparison because carvey's coming off as one of the greatest uh SNL players of all time you know his his his his uh class um resurrected SNL and and and and then put it squarely back into the pop culture everything and he was you know one of the leaders of that and and comes over so of course like I remember I was as a viewer that was my class at Saturday Night Live and as a viewer I remember watching the D Carvey Show and I would compare it to Saturday Night Live you couldn't not do it at the time yeah you couldn't and and I if I remember correctly I think SNL was kind of going through a little bit of a shaky time too right frell and everybody had broken out into being the superstars that they became yeah they were reset they had literally reset they were ring yeah yeah right that's right they were kind of resetting at time and then we're all sitting here watching it again we're just all like fancing ourselves like you know we can do this fishan autos and Y I just got laugh like sending somebody over to the bathroom um earlier and I killed in the bathroom page today um let alone watching these guys do this stuff and then Dana Carvey is like does this skit the in and there's that Great Dock on Hulu um which I'm you've seen the the one about the show oh yeah yeah yeah something cancelled or whatever but um but they talked about this that one skit that where Dana Carvey plays Bill Clinton and he's milking puppies or something like that or no not milk oh God that's not no no the puppies are taking milk from his various nipples or something and I I don't even know how to clean that up or even make it sound like if you no it's it was it yeah no no it's you're you're being accurate there that's what it was yeah and I remember the audience and all of us just being like what is this how do we take this what is happening here Y and then I know again I'm not trying to make myself like a zelig or something like that but I remember just like walking down and as we were escorting people out like LC CK came out and he like walked over to me very nervously just and he was like looking at no one and everyone at the same time and he was just like like well that was pretty cool right that was funny and I was like yeah and I didn't know what else to say was like dude I don't know what you're doing but this is so weird so maybe and I don't know but maybe that's an example of like taking the edge too far yeah doing whatever but I guess in terms of legacy and stuff man you know no one's there are a lot of shows that no one's done documentaries about many many many let alone you got to be that one and certainly we were all proven Wrong by the C Supporting Cast the writers the cast everybody essentially you know just it just blew up after that yep yeah it's it's it's it's an amazing point in television history when things when projects like that uh happen and they are just sort of a one-off but then there are offshoots from it and and and are so many uh from that particular show again this is why we do the Letterman podcast because of how many offshoots there are we don't see a Nick PR if it wasn't for you know his time in the in the in the uh the recesses in the in the terrarium or the uh the Subterranean uh you know catacombs that was the research Department of Leo you know we don't you know we don't see that these things are made there and and and that show I think did a good job of making uh giving the the experience to some of these players that you're talking about that would then propel them and give them the Instinct as they hone in on whatever it is Daily Show or their setup career or whatever right well m m the researchers mine smithberg I mean oh mine I adore mine she's coming on the show we keep she and I go back and forth all the time and she is coming on the show uh she's just got some stuff she's dealing with right now but mine smithberg is just I look up to her she is one of these people that I just look up to as a Trends Setter and oh my God I love her yeah I I I never worked with with her I just like and Daniel Kellis and um I'm forgetting my goodness um who also was a EP on uh Ellen for many years uh woman oh Mary Mary yeah absolutely yeah yeah so so you know these people like and it's funny because we used to just everything was paper so you'd get the folder of whoever the guest was certainly if they hadn't been on since late late night MH go through the old folders and like oh here's some research something that wasn't done before and the names at the top of it meline smithberg who was just like kind of getting the daily No No Yeah The Daily Show was maybe yeah da well okay was it before then I can't because she was there with kilborne she was there with Kil well she she started I'm just trying to remember if that was even happening at the time oh I see what you're saying I see what you're saying yeah but maybe maybe it was just it was just before that but or The View with Briant Teta like like like you know all these crazy yeah it's it's these are this is the reason why we do the show is is is to celebrate all that stuff um before oh go ahead oh no I was just gonna say it's almost like it's like you know if you like when NFL and you watch to you you know these coaches they have their coaching trees and stuff like that I I think like and you know Bill Parcels or somebody like that has all these various defensive coordinator and all these people eventually go on to do these things that's the late night people and that's that kind of thing and then I I will just say though that it's like it's it's it's humbling it's beyond humbling and I and at that Friar's Club um farewell thing I just the whole night I just you couldn't you couldn't pinch me enough to just be like what I can't even believe that I was part of this even a very short period of time um because also so much time had gone away from that yeah and stuff like that and so and I have to say it's a very brief window for for my career and my time but but it is a very it was a very interesting time for the show um so I'm glad if anything I can share these stories to sort of like Chronicle that that moment those moments because they were was a weird interesting time zor and zor I I'm I'm I'm insisting here um as your new Fast friend uh we're doing it again we're going to do it again like you and I will do this again because we have literally only scratched the very tip of the surface of what you have um I want to get to the things that you have thought about and prepared or whatnot um I want to e to the show and tell and all that if we have a few more minutes to do that I appreciate it uh but before we hit record uh you were about to tell me a story about Shey and you use the reference of a Jedi which I'm a big fan of Shey he's one of my favorite and a huge Star Wars fan so that was amazing you hearing that um let's let's let's give Shey a little bit of love and let's talk about the other things that you prepared and then uh we I've actually I've actually showed and I've showed and tell everything the pencil okay good okay right on saw the dog too so we're all good there there's actually a phenomenal picture of Jerry Lewis I'll save that maybe for next time because okay that's a good but I I and I should I my wife will you kill my fight on fight on moson out of this but I will I will I'd love to close for now on on the the folks at the show lesson if we I'm now I'm starting to be like if we could just dim the lights here for a little bit yeah I'm doing my cantra like thing um but honestly honestly like the biggest lesson that I learned was from a hand a number of people at that show was that no matter how stressful things get no matter how big your position gets or how much of a part of like iconic role you've you've you've played in TV kindness and the generosity that people showed me there is a lesson that I've tried to take everywhere I've gone as a professional um was definitely the most important lesson that I learned that there is always time for that Shey I say that he was like a Jedi of that show you know in a sense that he was there he was like a you know he did his work he did all his stuff but he was a quiet calming presence he just kind of chilled I mean he should have been wearing the Jedi robe you know just occasionally lift the be like here's a video of a monkey washing a cat use it in good health know and you're like amazing I I completely forgot about the monkey Washington cat let's use that and that was but but that joke that joking aside his fast knowledge yeah love and appreciation for for all things TV and and show business later on in years being friends with him on Facebook and just how how much he did to preserve yes silent film any type of the stuff that was as I get older my references get as old as meh and I don't want to be shy about that because I want people to always remember that these things and and that's what's so great about the show that you do and kudos to you for doing it because these things should be not just appreciated and funny but they should also be like kind of remembered and preserved and why not because because of all that stff but also like yes Shey but also um Jerry Mulligan I mean he's so great also he was a guy who I knew when I was a kid watching him sitting next Chris Elliott and he always was in Chris Elliott's bits and he barely ever spoke or he just like he'd be wearing like he dressed like a woman with his beard just kind of staring like kind of lifelessly staring over and then dve would ask him a question and he just whip snap tell a hilarious joke y I was just like and then I got to meet him yeah and he couldn't have been nicer and cooler to me um and then you know high energy people like Joanna Jordan but still just again very super kind and um just so many different people there that did that and and I don't know like that to me is the lesson the most impressive oh Barbara gains my God and when Dave would y Barbara yeah why do you want like is that you know and and then of course like what going down this road I I cannot not mention Jerry Foley oh just recently passed also who oh always had kind words J Jerry when he saw he when he saw me he would always say Zoran zon like he butchered my last name and I'd be Jerry it's zon but it's fine whatever we had like our little routine he had his brother who's a famous director and did amazing stuff my brother went on to like famous in Pittsburgh for sports writing we would always joke stories about our our older brothers who are just way too in their heads and weird successful guys yeah and then when Jerry passed on the Facebook stuff I noticed that not surprisingly everybody had a little something with Jerry yeah had a there because he took the time despite being the director of the show behind despite being under easily the most pressure of any yeah his job and then replacing Hal like like just stupid pressure y talk about like an accomplishment replacing that guy and sticking with it but still every day taking the time to make other people feel special anyway I just say that that is the lesson the best lesson of it all and and and Paul also yeah my gosh oh always been super cool his office was next door to Chris shakai oh isn't Chris great just unbelievably good good dude um and that and I think that they they prided themselves the show definitely prided themselves on hiring people like that and keeping them in the mix but there's only just so much you can do when it's that the pressures and the stuff is that high and anyway I'm just very grateful my God I'm leaving other people out like I'm like accepting an award here or something but like no no no this is beautiful nanc agustini Walter Kim so many other just like there's so many people and that is the that's the thing that I love to have been a part of that um and everything so thanks for even giving me the opportunity to say that to oh any of them have a chance to to hear that you have it any time and uh many of them will many of them will many of the people that you mentioned uh who've either been on the show or or or well they all know about it but they many of them uh listen or watch um so so I I appreciate that very very very much um and it's so funny because there are have been many people who have been on the show who won't name names for the exact reason that you just said because they don't want to forget anybody and and you know oh it's funny talk having Janice Janice on here you know Janice tell me some of the some of the inter that You' brought on that you've and she's like I won't do it no I will not there's no way because they were all like her kids she loved them all and she didn't want in a second she didn't want to exclude anybody and it's like well no we can talk about the other ones later like like but but I appreciate that so much thank you for bringing her up because that's the person who the reason I work there and Janice was like Hey sa what are you doing what are you doing you want to work here what do you want to do you want to work here let's go just like this great great New York I know oh I love her voice I love her voice so much she is such a Janice there is you know sometimes a name and a person fit so beautifully and you know that's a great if Janice is in the dictionary there's there her picture is there Larry King used to say um this has been a lot of fun and I appreciate it very very very much zor and I'm going to be in in in contact more moving forward and and whatnot and again anybody uh that you think that should be should come on here to be able to be able to do exactly what you just did here we want to be an archive for that uh it's funny how I don't think I'm being egocentric by saying this I love that this show is a resource for people in your fraternity who are part of the Letterman Mythos can come here and get this stuff out like like like it's I've been told that so many times and you want to talk about it's the same thing like I can't believe that I get to be involved in helping these people do that are you kidding me what an amazing thing that is so I just want to say thank you so much for your contribution for everything um I appreciate this very very much and and I hope that uh I hope that when you did your Ukrainian Crouch your mom was very very excited and proud when that happened oh my God oh my God it wouldn't have made the VHS tape if it if it was um let's uh offline let's see if we can find some of those appearances that we have because there are digit let's see if we can get those sent to you here I'll see if we can get uh Walter or Dawn to to to give the green light for that and make that happen for you um zoren I can't thank you enough for taking time today to do this I really appreciate it I can't wait to see what it evolves into yes yes uh thank you so much and thanks for doing the show it's fantastic no problem at all um oh hey um you know what I'll do the outro with you on here real quick in case you have you want to jump in if you want to jump in you can uh okay this is why we do the show uh I love this so much talking about the little Corners the little nooks and crannies that uh have to do with uh the Letterman Universe uh the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only that is hello- deli.com Rupert may not own the deli anymore but he does own hello.com and uh guess what he also has the uh the rights to sell the only person that has the rights to sell official Late Show with David Letterman merchandise if you want hats and shirts and mugs and all that sort of stuff go to hello- deli.com and uh Rupert may not pack the order uh with onions anymore but he will still pack the order and send it to you anytime and uh he thanks you very very much and we thank hellodd deli.com for being our sponsor so any rert stories to take us out of here I was I asked if I could have an sandwich named after me and he did name a sandwich after me for like a week no kidding it was and it was and I was a little crestf Fallen whenever anybody was just like I'm sorry zor and I just you know I had to get somebody else up there and you know people are asking me and I was like rert I couldn't thank you so much like I mean so I will always have that for the rest of my life I don't remember what the sandwich was I don't remember particularly enjoying it too much with that he make great sandwiches but I don't like peppers I get a little bemp so anyway um this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chisum coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night overcoat and Underpants