TV Historian Allison Lips Returns to Talk My Next Guest With David Letterman, Cancel Culture, and Justin Bieber’s Underpants

yeah I'm Paul schaer I'm will Lee and you are watching the Letterman podcast welcome once again to the Letterman podcast my name is Mike Chisum uh today we've got Alison lips coming back TV historian uh prote of David B and culie uh about to start uh another semester at Rowan moving towards the doctor towards the goal of becoming Dr lips I'm excited for her about that we've talked about I mean Allison and I have the same ability that I had when I was a kid when I had a phone in my room and I could talk and talk and talk guys yeah but I had a lot of girlfriends that that that we would just talk about you know the communal moments of the day and many of those moments had to do with pop culture had to do with movies had to do with music had to do with uh television and and um and the Allison and I have the ability to talk like I used to be able to as a teenager we just go back and forth on stuff and we just throw stuff around and and I think that's what I think podcasting is one of those things that that that is a a throwback to that where we just talk about stuff and it's it's it's so much fun Allison and I have such an easy I think we went through a a potential list of topics that we could do a show on it was like 58 50 different topics something like that and and and so we have a lot of fun talking about things well one of the things I talk about all the time is uh my my next guest needs no introduction I love that show I love it I love Dave's Uh current um where he has evolved to and I believe it is an evolution from The Comedy Store all the way up till now there's a through line of of of of influences and people and I always talk about how he's doing the Tom Snider thing now and he's doing such a good job of it he's just I love my next guest for a variety of reasons it's introduced me uh to things that I had never known about before and I talk about that in this episode with with Allison um uh we talk about Conan of course uh she's a huge Conan O'Brien fan as well as a David Letterman fan again TV historian gal in her 30s different perspective that's one of the things is that we I love picking her brain about about her perspective uh you know a good example of of that is talking about Ellen on my next guest we talk about Brian Williams we talk about some of the different figures in in in pop culture that have have cross-sections with uh with Letterman and and and um Will Smith and things like that we talk about so we do a deep dive on my next guest today as well that's that's that's really the the focal point of of today's episode but we talk about a whole bunch of things uh I hope you enjoy it either way we enjoyed having the conversation it would be cool if there are some people out there who enjoy listening to it the Letterman podcast has one sponsor one sponsor only and that is hellodd deli.com that's right rert G doesn't own hello Deli anymore but he does still have hellodd deli.com if you want Late Show with David Letterman shirts or mugs or hats or different things uh that is the place to go the only place to go for Late Show with David Letterman merchandise it's throwback stuff now go get it get one for yourself get one for your friend do you have a friend even if it's an imaginary friend get a shirt get a late show with David Letterman shirt for them um it's uh I I'm I'm really grateful that I have my relationship with rert there's going to be a video actually I'm going to be putting out uh with rert uh saying hi to everybody here uh when I get around to put it get up and uh anyway we've shot it week or so ago he's enjoying his summer very very much and um I'm just really grateful for this show I'm grateful for all the people who um are interacting with it and I'm grateful that we're starting to get a squad of folks who are in the Letterman podcast family uh and it's it's cool reoccurring guests folks who are in the industry um in in different variety of ways uh that are becoming you know friends and family members of the Letterman podcast Allison lips is certainly an example of that without further Ado happy to present the latest conversation that we have with Allison lips okay I'm stoked about this you and I keep talking about wanting to do more and more and more of these I'm so glad that you're back Allison um okay so I got to ask you now obviously you've got experience podcasting all that kind of stuff but your first experience on the Letterman podcast um I'm super curious did David watch David being did he watch and did he dig it oh geez yes he did and yes he did all right that's where you're starting that's where I'm start hey this is your mentor and and and I'm stoked about that I'm stoked about I'm stoked to talk to a television historian um that isn't genx you know that someone that that wants to take the Baton um that that that we're trying to you know run down the relay with as you can tell I've watching the Olympics and running down the track you're wanting to take the Baton and talk about this stuff but yet at the same time you know you've got a mentor who's got so much uh history in this thing and knowing that they watched something that you and I did together I wanted to yeah absolutely he dug it right he he was proud of you he's proud of his Protege of course I'm not sure with you starting this he's still going to be after if he watches this but yes um before we get into it today we're gonna do it like and you and I have a list of episodes and not just episodes but but moments in television history moments in late night uh history both as a genre and as a show you and I have like a you know we've got a whole bunch of things that we could talk about we're going to focus this show on my next guest uh but before we do Alison lips um you're you're okay so are you taking a step closer to becoming Dr lips are we are we are we doing that because you're going back to school this uh this semester right yes I am going back to school back to Rowan as a television studies Master's student yep so not quite doctor yet but the communications field is a little odd where my MBA because it's not a research degree or they don't consider it one right I now need to go get the second Masters even though I am qualified and I did get on weight lists but nothing stuck okay so this was always backup plan yep and I'm looking forward to studying with beon coie again and Kim and Jennifer who are the three main Masters professors as far as I know yep it's exciting very exciting we've discussed what what my Master's thesis may be on yeah which is still figuring that out but anything to do with late night are you gon to go down that path and and and include that in there somehow I don't know yet it's possible but right now my focus seems to be because I am watching Seinfeld MH and I am a huge new hard and Gary shaming fan more like standup comedians who have had sitcoms yep so we'll see where this goes um you know talking about Bob newart it's so interesting hearing you talk about Bob newart because you have such a different perspective um you know a lot of the people I talk to are 15 years my senior you know and and and then um you know you and I are about that about that difference from each other as well um Bob newart passed away recently like when that happen something like that happens how does that affect you like what was what were your thoughts when when when someone like that passed my friend K I believe was the one who broke it to me via text and I'm like no yeah and I literally almost started crying I loved B well I still love his work newart is one of my favorite shows and when Betty White died I was like someone protect Dick Van Dyk and Bob newart because granted they're all or they were all in their 90s Dick Van dyk's approaching 100 at this point but it's still people are so beloved yeah you know it's inevitable but you don't want to think about it I know it's it's funny um I had a member of it's It's someone in the Letterman world you know was there a long long long time um they very recently said to me you know Mike you can tell you're having fun doing this and and who knows where it's going to go that kind of a thing and and and whatnot but they said ultimately aren't you setting yourself up for heartbreak because because you're getting to know and meeting all these people and whatnot who are you know older a lot of them are older you know there are some folks that are that were there that are my age that worked for for late show and that right but but certainly the people who worked for late night I mean you know we're talking that show started over 40 years ago and and they're like you know you're setting yourself up for heartbreak because you're getting to know these there's going to be a lot of uh of eulogy type things that you're going to do and and I thought about it like and they were serious they were very Earnest in saying that to me aren't you setting yourself up for heartbreak was kind of the question and I just thought well I mean I guess there's the Heartbreak of of losing friendships and and things like that or whatever was people cross over but there's then there's also this idea of eulogy or eulogizing if that's a word like like tributing these people yeah okay tributing these people in their work and and um you know I love seeing this Resurgence of people talking about Bob since he's passed there's been so much love for that guy and for his shows and for the things that that he did for his delivery you know someone I I read an article not too long ago about how close he was uh to getting The Tonight Show a lot of people didn't realize how close yes I didn't realize either that was on the eight nighter yeah and he well I think it was one of those things where Johnny walked away and then came back yep yep but with getting to know all these people the other alternative is you don't get to know these and you miss out on those friendships so why not go for it bang you just you've just absolutely crystallized rather than wondering what would have happened yep that's exactly right and and and it is worth it for that it's uh but boy is it is it interesting watching things move on uh before we get to the my next guest stuff too I want to talk oh go ahead our relationship started as a sketchy Facebook DM yeah yeah exactly I'm like oh wait you're the Letterman guy okay let me feel this guy out because the internet has a bunch of weirdos and I obviously just knew you from Letterman group yep which tends to be rabbit about Dave but sane in every other aspect I would totally agree with that I mean don't get me wrong every group has its uh um creeps yeah people who go too far with things or whatever and and and have that but but I most of the folks who really really uh groove on what Dave did have Quirk no doubt and I love Quirk I love eccentricity uh you know you know when people are characters there a lot of characters but yeah I I I feel exactly the same way not a lot of uh not a lot of weirdos not a lot of creepy uh type type stuff compared to so uh with notable exceptions of course many of them have made the news but uh and and and and might be topics for future episodes of the Letterman podcast you never know um but at I want to okay so I love how much you are as again as a historian but also as a fan I love how much you are into Dave even though much of it um you know much of that content existed before evens before you even born that being said you're a huge Conan fan and uh as well and I want to ask you about hot ones um you know we discussed this the last time I was on were you wait no no not when you were when you were on it was you and I talked about that afterwards didn't we no I'm pretty sure it was the did you not do your research oh man I didn't I'm asking everybody about hot ones these days just because of the uh there so you and I must have we must have recorded right as hot ones happened then yes okay all right that's good okay chugging pepper ax and it's like dude what are you doing yeah not do that oh my gosh I had previously watched a Hulu special on super hot peppers and people who go around to competitions eating like 20 of these things you do not remember any of this then maybe it wasn't on the podcast I thought maybe you I I thought we justum jumed on the on on the phone and talked about it but it might have been on the podcast but all I know is you literally have on the last podcast one of your hashtags is Conan O'Brien yeah Conan O'Brien but I don't I didn't and no we talked about how big of a fan you are of Conan I didn't think we actually talked about the hot ones Nicki Glazer was just on Conan's podcast and she and they pivoted to it and I just loved it so much because watched it yet oh it's good it's good she she she actually like like you could tell she's fascinated um about that experience like as far as I'm concerned like I watched um I watched the recent episode that came out with Hugh Jackman and and and Ryan Reynolds and I still like I look at hot ones and don't get me wrong I've always really enjoyed the show I love the premise it's that's a that's a great example of a creative internet show I just really really love that show but as far as I'm concerned Conan broke it like like Conan broke that show it it was it was amazing what he did and it just showed how far uh that guy will go for the joke and I have so much respect for that yes which a lot of us already knew sure this is the guy who literally got injured during a Tonight Show episode and then they had to cancel the episode and then he shows this giant bruise on his side and you're like whoa what were you doing how does that happen because it's not like he would normally do anything that would put him in a position where he would get half his body just one giant bruise yep uh and you've seen have you watched all the must goes con O'Brian musg go have you watched all of them yet I have watched all the Conan O'Brien must maybe it was must go that we W talked about no yeah you and I talk a lot about a lot of stuff so I don't know I I don't think it was on the show though I don't think we talked about that on the show okay um yes I watched allona ran much must goes I'm not a huge fan of the podcast I will watch some clips on YouTube yep we did talk about that but in a lot of ways I find my next guest needs no introduction to be very similar to Conan O'Brien needs a friend oh that's an interesting comparison and a segue wow it's like you're you know it's like it's like I know what I'm doing it's like you know what you're doing let's Okay so let's talk about that how would you compare like is it because you've got these two guys who have been around forever um that people love that have sort of made a shift and it's their next phase and their next phase is decidedly different than their previous phase or do you find the work actually to be similar in how they present it similar in how they present it obviously in a podcast we're not going out and seeing Dave race go-karts with Billy eish but they're both trying to get to know their guests better and in a more authentic way y granted Conan shtick doesn't really allow that to happen on Conan obrian needs a friend because Conan's now trying to get everything he couldn't say on television out of his system which Dave's also doing because Dave likes to curse in this well okay here's the thing about that that I'll I'll say is different uh Conan he loves he he enjoys cursing a lot I enjoyed um and I think about both of them do I think most people Dave it's usually one with Dave he usually will do one he'll he'll he'll he'll throw one FW out there uh on a next guest whereas Conan if they could come out at any time it's like when Stephen coar is on a on a podcast as well like when he was on um uh when they were doing uh strike Forest 5 coar he swore a lot and I I enjoy I'm a huge guy I love cursing I don't know what it is there's something a little naughty about it I love color especially if it's used cleverly cleverly is clever curses are AR there are a whole bunch of books about it if you want I can recommend a few yeah ABS read some absolutely um but but but Conan you know they they seem to just come out of him just naturally and and and speically he is from Boston yeah well Brook line massachusett but you go yep Northeast where is Dave very Midwest Y where Dave clearly finds joy in it but there's still the I have to be presentable whereas with the Northeastern United States it's like I am who I am you can deal with it yeah I would say the difference is uh this is my colorful language which will incur include curse words at at random intervals whereas when Dave does it to me it's still a punchline like if Dave's going to throw something out there usually it's an accentuation of the word or it's a repetition of somebody who just who told you you could say that there you go and yes exactly or or or just sometimes Dave will just put you know the emphasis on a certain word or or something like that and and that might be the word and and he's using that device now more than he used to but he he was doing it on Late Show um more and more and more towards the end and of course they had that uh they had that really funny uh sound effect that they would use on Late Show for uh for for for bleeping things out but Dave seems to still use it for comedic effect but I do love that it's on I do love that it's on my next guest there's also two different segments off the top of my head where Dave plays with the fact that if he said the word he would not it would get bleeped but because like for example there was this Broadway play and in it the kid was like this is dad and Dave's like that punk can say it but I can't and then there's the one where he's like you can say douche and you can say bag but you cannot put them together oh I loved that oh that is a classic classic moment and and and just playing around with the idea of of of the Ridiculousness of uh the granular of standards and practices and and I would love when they would nudge that uh there's a people yeah yeah broadcast standards broadcast B the BS people that's exactly right um so yeah I I I love con O'Brien needs a friend um you know and it's so interesting listening to Sona um because she seems to be kind of her own force of nature now and it's it's so interesting watching The Echoes of Letterman because that's what Dave you know was was really famous for he was famous for making members of his staff um you know stars and and and in in their own certain way famous I guess I guess you know and we'll get to the Clooney episode there's a there's something that happened in the Clooney episode featuring them feature yeah you feature these people and sometimes these people would get like you think about rert I've got a oh I've got a video of rert that I'm going to throw out there around the same time I throw this out I just I just talked with him and Irene they're in Greece they say hi to the entire audience they're doing well a lot of folks have asked me about how Rupert's doing since he sold the deli um and and so I've got a video we we took a as part of the our call we're just shooting the bull and and talking I recorded a little bit of it to to throw out there for everybody so we're going to talk to Rupert here soon um but it cool the first one rert introduced the episode what's that that's you edited it to rert introduced it and I'm just like wow yeah our episode absolutely who do you want for this one we got we got a few different options we got uh we got Chris Harris we got um Steve Wier we got Steve Young uh will Lee and Paul Schaefer I don't know if you want those that we got I got I got uh I don't know I got seven or eight different bumpers now that we can that we can use Paul schaer yeah we want you want that one we can do that one um absolutely W this is getting very inside baseball where we're like we're gonna talk about what we're editing I don't edit that's that's that's I I love the long form and I this is what Allison and I can do by the way we can shoot the all day long we can go for hours it requires editing to throw something in front of a video that is technically editing that's true that's true I do I do uh a little teeny tiny bit of of of that with my meager uh meager skills uh but but Sona to go back to the point like you look at you know rert and how how how how many people just hey rert how you doing so many people just know who Rupert is that sort of thing Sona seems to legitimately be becoming some something else because of this thing people just have fallen in love with her right Letterman fans get star struck by a guy who used to own a deli yes that's exactly right and I think that right there is is is one of the the very interesting things like you know twice what's that and both I went to the hello Deli twice and I think rert was there both times yep but I don't know what to say no um he got the same question over and over and over and over and over and over again and I I uh I actually talked about this a little bit um um the night he retired um one of the the things about rert is you get these people who came in and they had exactly that reaction that you had that you know I don't know what to say um oh my goodness it's so great to meet their little star struck meeting him and then they would throw out the question well what's it like to work with Dave or what's Dave like or you know a question very very very Elementary um very you know introductory that you know that you would naturally think that someone who was in that sort of space would ask and he heard it I'm I'm I tried to actually calculate it a little bit I tried to actually before before um the EV go that's why I don't say things like that because being someone who is in the industry somewhat yep you don't walk up to people and be like how so and so who so and so like yeah why are like what's it like working like no one wants to answer those questions and that's the thing rert I figured it out it was in it's in the tens of thousands for sure I was just trying to kind of ballpark it it like but it's in the upper like it might even be in the six figures where throughout his run of that you know 20 20 22 years whatever it was um and and Beyond because it's not like that ended when when when when Dave's run- on late show ended he ke still kept the deli all the way till last year he probably answered that same question or a question that's very very very surfacy on the like a very similar question it's probably in the 80 to 90,000 times oh I'm sure of it yeah and the thing is he would he and may would be it was like somebody asked it the for the first time every single time like he they they were the perfect sidekick for for Late Show they were the perfect and and I just oh I'm glad we're talking about rert and may that makes me that makes me so happy right now um but they were they were they were so so wonderful when it came to it and so watching Sona like I would love to have a conversation with Sona like she's just um her and Conan have this amazing amazing Dynamic and it's just uh she's a perfect co-host for the show and and um but it is a very very different deal and it is long form but it's extremely it's still zany Conan has really shown us that he truly has that fastic nature that you know people have always talked about he's it's like he's putting on a show whether or not anybody's there if it's if it's in an office and there's only two people there uh or an entire audience Conan is using his uh this he's got this um random I would almost even call it Robin Williams like uh energy that he throws out there where he just has people it's not as manic though yeah well sometimes it is well I mean get kind on a roll yeah yeah and and um but anyway so so that's very very interesting but it is long form um it is his new phase it is going gang busters he's got his serious show and and it's it's cool to see Conan doing what he's doing um I love that you compare this phase to Dave and my next guest and and this is a rabbit hole that you and I have wanted to go down for a long time I haven't we've done a few episodes on my next guest um but you know as you and I love to talk about this stuff and go deep into the weeds um of of of of the unchartered part of the Jungle you and I love doing that can we can we start with my favorite episode think you know my favorite episode because we were talking about this what's what's one which one is your very favorite episode oh the Zach Alanis by far and that is fascinating to me uh because that one there I mean don't get me WR I've talked to people about it there are people who enjoy it that sort of thing but it's further down the list on most people and that one's your favorite one I uh I I dig that and that's one of the bonus episodes so my next guest has had an interesting trajectory um season one came out with the with the the ones that everyone expected and then there was a curious little um add-on surprise for everybody and it was Jerry Seinfeld interviewing David Letterman at a Netflix event which I love the title you're David Letterman you idiot absolutely absolutely and in the context of where it was said was was fantastic because I believe in that episode Jerry when he said that line did exactly what a lot of the hardcore fans of Dave uh inest I should say have always wanted to say because Dave has always downplayed his importance in television he's always done that um you know whether he he believes it or not and I don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's false modesty but but he's always kind of downplayed um you know he does not like praise he doesn't like you know and for Jerry to say you know you're David Letterman you IDI like like that was just that's an expression that I think a lot of people have wanted to throw out there um to I think so but I respect the fact that Dave's just like it was a job I was lucky to have it for as long as I did um I was lucky to even get there to begin with yeah and it's who he is and how he's wired and I don't think like screaming you're David Letterman you idiot at him really changes that I mean it's funny and coming from Jerry Seinfeld who is friendly like it works yes you know like how we rib each other absolutely online absolutely but like you know a fan couldn't come up to him and say that no no that's the that's exactly right that's it's because it's Jerry and because they have the history that they have that's why that can work and also feel I don't know borderline cathartic to some I suppose maybe that's going a little far but but you know and in that same conversation Jerry uh uh said to him you know you're the guy that changed uh television did this and Dave immediately is starting to stop him starting to to pause him um you know you you change television and all this and Dave starts to hesitate and so Jerry says and by the way I'm not going to say for the better and Dave's like okay I'll take it I'll take it you know I I'll take that then if that that that's the case so that the also yeah I think Dave's coming from the position that he took bits and pieces from other people so while we're seeing what he did as revolutionary he's he might be based on the way everything like we know about him obviously viously I can't read his mind but he may be feeling like oh I just did Steve Allen's bit yes yes without a doubt um but he put they put a new spin on it and that's but he wouldn't say that part he wouldn't say oh we also injected a little bit of comic genius into it uh you know or or or or or creative genius into it um so anyway season two of manik's guest comes out and the first couple seasons were very similar in how they uh and how they were presented a handful of episodes um at the beginning it was weekly go ahead I feel like Co made the show better because it forced them to get away from the studio audience okay when the studio audience isn't there they get deeper and there's not playing to the audience like Billy ish didn't have an audience and she talked about her experiences with Tourette's and growing up and a Le superficial way than who did something like super superficial I'm trying to remember because I know there were a few where it's like yeah I grew up and that maybe Tina Fay because she had an audience even though that is a later episode yep uh Tina Fay was season one that was the last episode of season one was Tina okay then my Netflix you knew I was trying trying to watch them in order and my Netflix did not give them an order yeah yeah yeah yeah well okay so but this is this is again and I want to get so let's talk about Zach because you know um this is something that Allison and I Do by the way we're just we're free form we can go in so many different directions and I love our conversations for that they're fantastic um but I want to get back to Zach so Season Two Season one comes out uh I believe they're all weekly Netflix release them weekly and then at the end the unannounced Jerry Seinfeld uh episode comes out is somewhere it was somewhere after season one ended this this this amazing interview uh with Jerry Seinfeld and David lman at a Netflix event season two very similar except I think they dropped them all at the same time I'm pretty sure that's how how that went and then the same it seems like it was the same event just the next year Zach galanakis and David Letterman go back and forth and and and it seems like in those two episodes it was more about the guest being able to actually be a little more interactive with d even back to the very first episode of my next guest with President Obama um you know President Obama asks starts to ask Dave some questions like you can tell I love the fact that uh President Barack Obama was a was a was a clearly a letterman fan um back in the day when the when the when the Super Bowl commercial happened with uh with Oprah Winfrey and Jay Leno uh the report was real time Barack Obama in the White House was watching the Super Bowl saw the the commercial and immediately was like hey hey what happened there like like find out was that real he was he was like really invested that one yeah he was really invested in it and then um you know of course uh uh he and and both and Michelle Obama also he might have seen that and like if that's real maybe we can have peace in the Middle East gives hope if Dave and Jay can do something together oh my goodness and I don't even that's a huge misreading of what their actual relationship is which we now know but but at the same time just like Conan on hot ones if the joke is good enough or the moment is big enough we're gonna set aside whatever to make it happen and I think that's an amazing example of what those two guys uh you know Jay obviously uh you know someone even said oh Kimmel said it to to Dave he goes oh you threw Jay a lifeline and and and and I'm like yeah okay that that might be a point cuz Jay at that point his his PR was you know um decidedly everybody the the court of public opinion was clearly on you know Conan O'Brien's side um when it came to that but and and by the way Conan originally was invited to be part of that I don't know if you knew that you did know that yeah and Conan's like no yeah which I don't blame con because I would be like no no absolutely absolutely um and Conan got his moment when he came back on Late Show anyway which which again one of my very favorite appearances of all time is is when he and Dave were just sitting there silent um and they looked at you know Jay's watching right it was such a good moment but but anyway to go back to that pre the very first episode of my next guest is with pres former president Barack Obama and um you know it's like both these guys just finished um you know this grueling marathon of a career yes Dave finishing up his run in late night and not uh having and this is his first project since and President Obama trying to figure himself out and and and where and what to go next and what to do next and in even in that episode so you could tell he's a fan of Dave's and he's like asking these questions he's trying to he's trying to probe Dave a little bit uh on what Dave do wasn't there yet well it was but but then but Dave's response is you know hey hey who's who's asking the questions here like he even said it to President Obama but these Netflix uh special episodes the one with Seinfeld and the one with Zach there seemed to be latitude given where they could ask Dave questions more it was way more of a back and forth whereas all the rest of the my next guests and Stern I guess was like that stern was like that too but Stern always always would take it and reverse it back it's it's it's always fun watching Dave and Stern do their thing but those two so watching Zack be able to kind of um Express his enthusiasm for Dave was really precious also what I love about that episode is like everyone's a really big name and then it's like Zach Alanis like I know who he is I like him but he's not President Obama he's not Malala Yousef Yousef you oh my God I what's her last name I always mess it up Y yfi yfi and he's not like a jul Lou dri is who has had three amazing show well The New Adventures of Old Christine okay not best that to give perspective season two was Kanye Ellen degenerous Tiffany hadish Lewis Hamilton Melinda Gates and then Zack alakus that was that was season two that's how that one went I felt like it was Finding its footing with Tiffany hadish leis Hamilton was someone who I had heard his name but I didn't really know much about him that was an episode where I stopped what I was doing and was like oh this is really interesting but the Zach alakus one was so Random on so many levels that I'm just like wow okay first of all how did Zack alnis get on this list which during the interview you find out his connection with Netflix and he had the first Netflix original yep and Between Two Ferns uh the movie I think was about to come out and Dave made an appearance in that movie I think that's where okay I think that's where that happened I think you're right because I'm not a I haven't seen much of Between Two Ferns but I did seek out the Justin Bieber episode because of this episode of my next again it's so random and it's just I don't feel like I really learned much in this well I did learn a lot about Zach but I don't feel like I really learned much in this episode because it's the two of them bantering and Zach just can't believe he's on the stage yes yes there was definitely that uh and and and Zach who prides himself on the guy who again going back to that theme of we'll do anything for the joke Zach is that guy he will he will be a dead pan for as long as humanly possible if he can to preserve some sort of a of of a joke of some of some sort he was not doing that well no like he he was he was a fish out of water in that regard and you could tell it was that reverence that he has that so many have and again this is where I want the Letterman podcast I I you know if if if the podcast God smile upon us even more and I mean my word if they did that's just this has always been so much joy already in the experiences I've gotten from it but the idea of people have asked um and not just asked now they're starting to forecast a little bit they're like wait a second there are certain people who weren't allowed to talk about this enthusiasm for Dave uh on late show or on in any any other other way and Zach's a prime example of that here clearly um and and like wait the Letterman podcast is a place they can talk about that yes that's exactly right that's exactly right I cannot wait to have some of these people on uh who have all this reverence for for Dave and yet it might be a little bit under the surface because they weren't allowed to talk about it Zach clearly was able to talk about it um in he was like a little boy like can you believe I'm up here there you go and I love that that was that's my favorite part of that is the charm that he had towards it but you you mention at the end of that episode near The Spill his guts in ways where you're like oh he's like literally begging Dave please do not put this in but I'm going to tell you the story and Dave's like no that is definitely going in and that's the Justin Bieber underwear story underwear story and and and it's a fantastic story for anybody and and this is I love that you and I are doing this episode Allison because there are so many people who who who listen to and watch our show that that haven't necessarily gotten into my next guest and I I love my next guest I think it's go ahead I hadn't watched it until you asked me to do this show and I had only seen the Vladimir zalinski because that was very timely when it came out and I have to say I'm not sorry I watched it but which is High Praise from a television historian everybody if you're gauging things if you're gauging things I'm not sorry I watched this is actually if you convert it over to television fandom it's like no that was really really good no not quite because I'm also like not sorry I watch um like H honey I'm home so like do you know that show it's a bad British sitcom where someone had the bright idea of having Hitler live next to a Jewish couple oh no where it is oh and they have New York accents for some reason because not only is this about Hitler's domestic life it's also a parody of I Love Lucy what year did that come out 1980 1980 oh God bless they made six episodes one aired the rest have not been seen since and I'm just like I want to see where this goes what network was that Galaxy which went under shortly after Galaxy like back in 1980 there was a network called Galaxy I don't even know if I knew that in the UK a British show yeah yeah yeah yeah but it was Galaxy I don't know if I've because there's okay okay that's very very interesting H honey know British satellite channels in 1980 not usually no I'm not really up on that I'm yeah but but we did we you and I in one of our conversations um I think it was because we were talking about something I'm like oh they did that in my next guest or they they talked about that in my next guest and you were like okay I need to get around to watching this and so that's how this episode kind of culminated was okay you went through them all very recently and um and again a shining endorsement uh I'm not sorry I did it I like the well the first season was a slog to get through for me that's so the later episodes like by the time Billy ish and Miley Cyrus Come Along I'm like I'm sold even Dave Chappelle was one of those yeah but it had to find its footing for me because everyone was trying to figure out what is this format Barack Obama one didn't make much sense to me because you had Barack Obama being interviewed and then John Lewis being interviewed about his experiences which now that John Lewis has passed I'm grateful that we have those moment but as a showe it didn't gel for me like it could have been one half one person the other half the other person because it was just cutting between two things that are related because it's both black men in the United States breaking ground and fighting racism but they aren't one of those like so closely connected where it made sense that they were paired in the way they were so okay um because you know obviously the bridge was made um in that episode where uh where you know you you had this uh because they actually went to Selma right they were actually they they were they were there and they and they cross Bridge the bridge together which is you know like you say now that he's he's passed it's like w this incredibly powerful find that that might not have been the place for it well and but then you have but then you have a cutaway back to on stage with President Obama and and and and and they talk about him and I think that that was the U um that was the connection whereas uh in season two you had Tina Fay and she would talk about um you know being from Chicago uh uh this restaurant with you know these the the these uh this meal where it it's it's chicken I think it's Greek chicken or whatever over fries and the gree would and the fries were just amazing he took a Chicago musician who it was Buddy Guy I think it was I think he was there watching it was it was a Buddy Guy I think it was and and so that one there it's like okay at least in the in the first episode where you actually had Dave talking to President Obama about that and that kind of connected it whereas I thought that that in the Tina Fe episode I thought that was a disconnect a little bit um that was definitely a disconnect I think my feelings on the Obama one are more it was doing both men a disservice oh interesting oh that's very way it was connected now let's go to I've got I probably got three epodes I studied media and editing in production so my critique is the editing not the content uh yes I I'm glad you made that distinction because again it's not like it wasn't a like listening to I one one the things I loved about that episode um when President Obama said uh uh you know he was because he it sounded like he was going to go partisan but he didn't he was talking about technology and Echo Chambers and he said you know what he goes you can get your news from Fox News and be on a completely different planet and as he started to say different planet the audience you know clearly who were on his side that night whether not no matter what their political leanings were they were clearly happy to see him um you know AO they just started clapping just for that and he's like no no no hold on a second hold on a second and then he used the comparison he talked about somebody who had browser history uh uh that that had any political affiliation whatsoever then he was talking about how Echo Chambers get built and then it creates teams and all that and how that's a problem and it was a greater Point than just you know making uh Fox News a punchline it was it was a much much much greater point I like so that's one of many moments in that episode that I just I thought were like to this day um you know I watched it not that long ago and I thought oh well here we are you know this many years later where you know at the end of the day it's almost a it's almost 10 years since L show ended how crazy is that but uh you know we are you know half a decade later or more and President Obama's words at that point I think even more poignant now yeah you know he was he was so given up the whole trying not to be partisan stance yeah because that's not something that can really be done in the United States at this point in time yeah it's interesting times there's no question it's interesting times um now I but one of my top episodes um is actually the second one it's George Clooney and and and again I I love how you talk about how early on in the show um you know the idea of having two very distinct segments one in front of the audience and then one somewhere else and and then merging them together and and that was really season one and and and season two as well um but but really in season one that was it there was two very distinct things but with the Clooney episode which I adored it's one of my it's one of my very favorite ones of all time I love it it's it's going back and actually talking to George's family and and George's dad um who who had a career in broadcasting same with malalas yeah malalas as well absolutely absolutely um I thought they really hit the nail on the head and the Clooney one com and putting those two together you know you'd have some of the things that Clooney is doing outside you'd have the background with Clooney's father um it was definitely one of the better season one episodes for me yeah yeah because it made sense like oh this is George cloney this is what he's doing what his wife does y this is how his parents got involved then I didn't realize his father was a local television personality I knew Rosemary Clooney yeah but I didn't realize his father yeah yeah uh something that happened in that episode too which I thought was very very interesting and it's it's it's um some of the local folks that I know in local media I've actually picked their brain about it a little bit uh the idea of of of being famous but not wealthy and that was and that was uh George's dad you know everybody knew who he was and and they tried to help people as much as they could and whatnot but but at the end of the day he was still a working man like other people making a working man salary and with with exactly people don't realize that working actors don't make a ton of money you're local newscaster especially if you're in a local market like a tiny Market when I was looking at jobs fresh out of college my like to be an on air personality you get paid maybe 253,000 a year MH mhm that's not a living wage even 15 years ago no but it gets your face out there and people know who you are and so there's notoriety that comes with it but with that notoriety that's not necessarily what uh The Stereotype of notoriety but you do get people who are like you wore that shirt two weeks ago because I see you every day on television it's like yeah because I'm a normal person and I can't afford a new shirt every single day whereas the men get off easy because it's a suit it's a black tie and a white shirt or a red tie and a white shirt with a black suit like you need two suits and you've got it made whereas with the women it's like that shirt is distinctive or like that's another red shirt with a v-neck and it's just like they're not making fortunes they don't have a stylist there was that Viral dress that for weather women who that they would all buy off of the Amazon yeah because it was like 30 bucks and it fit everyone really well yep that was a few years ago and they got mocked for it it was a it was a segment it was a segment on something where they where they went through and they showed the different I loved when Conan used to do that he used to um is it Sinclair I think it's Sinclair who has all these stations all over the place and they would they would uh sometimes throw out and nextar both of them and they would throw out um it's just this isn't to do with the dress but I think it was a similar something similar happened with the w with the dress but but um they would put out these monologues that they would make their broadcasters read that clearly had a slant of some sort to them and and it was so fun watching the different sin yeah watching all the different all the different broadcasters from all the different markets saying the exact same words and and and and while rolling their eyes yeah well you know we were as an audience by that point but but you know you got these people saying it kind of earnestly and you're like oh wow media has been politicized here it is and and I can remember back in the day when I can remember when when when when um the media companies started being swallowed up and I can remember guys like broka and rather and and some of these people going okay this is GNA this is going to change news yes there are only like three four well there's like five or six major organizations in the United States that own Media or at least there was a few years ago I know they keep getting merged and unmerged and merged in different configurations yeah it's uh it's pretty crazy to watch that that's actually if there's um there's a there's a guy by the name of Brian Williams who I want to have on the show very very very very very very very badly he's like if as far as the Brian Williams the Brian Williams the Brian Williams I want to have him he's he's one of he's my he's in my top five of of Letterman guests of all time um and and and I want I would love to talk to him I want his opinion so much on on because now that he's not he's retired you know you and I would say very different things to Brian Williams but his stick when he would come on the show was that he was impartial like that was his that was his stick when he would come on Letterman and and Dave would ask him all of these very very you know Common Sense questions but the common sense was there was a political charge to it there was clearly a a left and a right or a you know a red or a blue or whatever opinion on things and Brian would just kind of sit there and he would try and figure out ways to answer it impartially because he was newsman that didn't have an opinion he just reported it and you think about that you know that was a bridge that was a character sort of on the show Even though that's who Brian was when he hosted the Nightly News but the idea that you know impartiality and now I'm in a weird spot because you've asked me a question that's gonna try and make me give an opinion is funny that has gone out the window now when it comes to these things it's crazy listen to news people we still have Lester Holt who as far as I know hasn't lied about his experiences reporting on Wars yeah you know what and and and and if Brian comes on I wouldn't even necessarily talk about that I wouldn't even talk about the exaggerating like no that is a major problem and violates all journalism ethics I don't know again I know background in journalism yeah as opposed to where you're not that guy I mean what is your back on finance yeah yeah no no no and I and I see where you're coming from from when it comes to that but I also have a background with pro wrestling and and and and and standup comedy and certain things and and when you go on a show and you I I personally think also pro wrestling is a show and we all know that it's not real and it's scripted well and sometimes when people come on a talk show there are moments where there are moments that they talk about on the show and there are many times where it's like well how can we um how can we take this moment that actually happened and throw a direction here and throw a direction there and throw a direction here where it's entertaining and and and um if you have somebody who's being interviewed by 60 Minutes in my opinion the content needs to be pretty cut and dry pretty serious pretty you have somebody who goes on one of the late night shows and their job is to bring an anecdote out there where the where the idea is to entertain people and make them laugh there is moments that are convoluted or exaggerated same with standup comedy you know that is true but you don't do it when it's about your experiences in a war zone and being saying you were under Fire when you weren't yeah I don't again I but I don't know how much about that whole Scandal oh no no Lots like my that that last day when I was on Dave one of the when I was being a brat one of my questions was are you going to have Brian Williams on before I actually asked Dave that question are you going to have Brian Williams on uh before the end because he was such a good guest but at the same time at that point he was in The Penalty Box and by the way I'm glad they let him out of the Penalty Box I don't believe in Eternal punishment and I I I don't think that those things are are right and and and if somebody is willing to he was go ahead again journalism background for me it's sort of like if a lawyer did that you'd dispar them I don't know I don't know I I I don't know if that's you know time and place to me makes a difference it's different if he's a hosting the if he's the anchor of the NBC Nightly News and he starts saying things like that versus if I think and it wasn't like he was on Letterman saying that he was saying this in serious journalism wasn't it on Letterman I thought it was on Letterman that he that no it was not a letterman situation you sure yeah I'm pretty sure it's not I mean he might have mentioned it on but the story kept getting kept evolving over time until it was completely different okay and it was easily verifiable like there's video footage of the event he's talking about yeah so we may be talking about two different things maybe maybe but but regardless um you know the the exaggeration of that story I I want to talk to Brian very very very badly and I would and when I I talk to him I wouldn't even necessarily mention that I I just wouldn't because to on your show and then mention that oh I bet you I could but anyway and and you know what he's the type of guy he's super super super classy and and and smart and Brilliant and and all of these things where you know he probably has a way to reflect and to to bring it up i' be an honor to talk to about because I have no judgment I have zero judgment for it but at the end of the day though I look at I want to like I want to talk to him because he was in the trenches there coming up when this happened when suddenly you had these corporations who were now trying to control The Narrative of news and and you know always existed though has it yeah I mean we can go all the way back to yellow journalism but with the newspapers yeah and I believe it was William Randolph Hurst who said you provide the pictures I'll furnish the war yeah so it's gone back as far as the news media has existed and humans all have their biases but the goal of professional journalism is to be as objective as possible and give the facts and there are charts I haven't seen the latest one but tells you like where on the spectum various news organizations are yeah so you get your own and your Fox Far right then you get um huff post and the other ones further left um New York Times slightly left but not crazy left and it literally plots out what each organization's bias is overall obviously many news papers have their like token conservative or their token liberal that they haul out to say like oh see we give the other side sometime yeah but that's just to generate content that's just to you know they have to they have to have two sides to a fight see and to me I'm old enough that what you just said there uh while true and and yeah it's good to know that now like it's good to to to and this is again going back to what President Obama was saying um that what you just said seems foreign to me growing up the news was always supposed to be completely non-biased that was how I grew up and and I notice a stark difference from what I knew growing up to what I see now and and and we've watched that transformation in our lives and so talking to people like you know uh like like like Dan rther Tom broot Ryan Williams and other you know Diane Sawyer all these people they watch that happen on their walk watch where you know the very definition of what that person that job description was then is very different now when it comes to uh personal ideology and it's very interesting to see that we have gone so far down this Rabbit Hole yeah that's this is what Allison and I do ladies and gentlemen this is exactly what we do shifting gears back to my next guest so season one you had these cutaways you had these things and then it moved into season two which was similar and had some of these uh season okay so season two yeah Kanye Ellen uh what did you think of the Ellen episode I had to research when her Scandal went down which was after this was created and because now we don't like Ellen as a whole let's let's be very very very clear on this because there's a there's a vocal group and I I I I don't want to disparage and say oh it's a vocal minority I there's a vocal group who doesn't like I should say as the internet the internet people have spoken and the hive mind says that we no longer like Ellen yeah and I'm sitting here going oh my God I cannot wait for her special her her comedy her she is gonna come out and she as far as I'm concerned she's gonna come out and she is gonna mic drop this thing and I cannot wait for it not saying anybody not saying that there aren't people who had their their feelings hurt or anything like that uh we've had people on on the show who worked for Ellen and has have talked about it and we you know we can go into that but I'm just saying uh the Empire always strikes back and I cannot wait till Ellen comes out with her comedy special and talks about all this stuff and I I believe she's absolutely going to slay uh but that's just that's just me um I have to wait and see I don't really know if she did did anything wrong for me it's more her branding on like be kind and then it's like opened herself to the fact like if she does one thing that shows she's human and gets upset you destroyed your brand and that's where the main problem lies because like you know Dave's not perfect but his brand was never look how nice I am right right Allen was you know let's take somebody who I think is I think for the most part other than than than maybe some folks who you know have have a very different perspective on reality let's take someone like Oprah Winfrey um you know you this is somebody who is extremely powerful in many different senses of the word okay and yet has this um public Persona veneer whatever you want to call it you know do I think for a second that Oprah Winfrey doesn't have moments of like let's being ruthless absolutely not I I don't think she could be who she is that that yeah you if you have you know these moving parts around you there are times where you do have to be uh you know whatever what some people might say is an opposite of the public Persona I believe that both can exist at the same time very easily when it comes to a reasonable and I think Ellen is a prime prime prime prime prime example of that I think you've got a a a television show that has all of the um that's daily that is the grind where you know like like go back to Seinfeld he talks about talk show host how talk show hosts are like like how do you do this every single day and you have Ellen who had this amazing uh uh uh up and down career um you know where where her personal life was just thrown out there um and and and was in my opinion blackballed by the entertainment industry for just being who she was survives that comes back in a big way and I think that there's this thing where people love to raise up people onto an an impossible pedestal just so they can chop it down yes and hopefully that person can come back uh um I personally think and don't get me wrong again I've been in workplaces that have had toxic elements to them um but do you throw the baby out well thank you oh my god thank you I don't think I think we all have two I don't think you can exist as an adult without having been in a situation where someone is toxic whether that is work school grocery shopping like it doesn't matter we've all met toxic people thank you like okay and so you know you're okay so so so you're combining I want to do good in the world yes and I truly believe this is somebody that wants to do good in the world I truly believe that I I think the Letterman uh episode with Ellen I think I think shows that wonderfully like oh my God you cannot fake you know talking about what she went through personally and then like oh I you know afterwards I guess I got to call my mom you know because she got really real with Dave and and it's like okay I gotta call my mom now like oh my God but then she has the show that has all of these you know Breakneck things as a part of it the speed is Breakneck and and and I would say that you can't you have to have an element of toughness to even work for the these shows whato you have to have a layer of protection to be able to work in that environment but then to take it out of context and try and match the two together I think is a really really unfair thing to do to people it is unfortunately that's how these kind of things work there's also people who are really good at separating the person from the brand and with Ellen that was not what was going on like she was the brand and got wrapped up on it because Ellen on The Ellen Show yes we all know this is not who she is all the time but it wasn't clear that this was either a heightened version of herself or a character on some level like we did with Steven coar on the coar report good example yeah because there there's somebody there who obviously not it wasn't even obviously though because some people didn't realize that he was playing a character people thought it was real that's right and and that's how good he was but let's go back to to Dave joh sure but let's go back to Dave and Johnny like at the end of the day you know books have been written on these things you you know um um um and and Dave we all know Johnny was a womanizer there's an episode where Johnny talks about his DUI we don't think Johnny is perfect and somee of this maybe sexism sure I don't know we're also talking about different time period so we're holding people to different standards yeah and that's where I cannot wait for the pendulum to swing back I can't wait for a time where people actually uh can add context to to to reality um and and and that's that's as far as I'm concerned that's your that's that's your job like I love talking to you about this stuff because there are a lot of people in your age bracket that just don't have that ability and I love your take on these things because you have a you you know I talk we can talk for hours you have this ability to say okay this is how we look at things now this is how they looked at things then people like you're really good at being able to kind of throw context into it and I think that that is uh that gives me hope Allison it really really does because there are some people in my generation who are like the Next Generation we're we're feeling hopeless about that because holy also a lot of people mix up Millennials with Jen Z and now Jen Alpha is reaching adulthood right so people are still thinking that Millennials are the like 18y olds who don't know what they're doing still figuring things out and doing stupid things whereas the oldest Millennials are in their 40s yeah yeah I'm 33 yeah we're not children we may not have everything figured out but who does yep we are firmly adult and even gen Z now they're all in their 20s the oldest ones are early 30s yeah and you know this this type of thing um this conversation I think is going to be one that that dominates uh for a few Years anyway it's going to dominate these next couple Generations that are coming you know the idea I I I recently I was in Paris and I went to the lou not for the Olympics not for the Olympics no no not that recently but uh you know so I went to the lou and and and it was interesting going through the love and watching the different time periods of some of these amazing works of art and then reading the signs beside them yes and and and and I don't know that the right thing to do and and there's a lot of people both in Canada and the US that are trying to um they're trying to eliminate moments of history uh being recognized that that that that are um not flattering yes um and and and so you know I look at the love and it's like okay like clearly to me what I just described to me is a growing pain of a young Society because I go to Europe and I go to a place like that and and I see this amazing work of art that is depicting something horrible that has the roots of the the the act itself is horrible uh the person who commissioned the painting is horrible it was horrible what happened was horrible and here you have a sign beside the paint that just clearly is just depicting what happened and it goes back to the thing we're talking about with the news it's clearly just depicting what happened and when it happened and how it happened and a plaque beside it and then they it's it's it's the truth from their standpoint in that time of when they displayed it and they leave the public the idea of of judgment okay you judge that now in today's time and today's place that's an atrocity that's a this that's a that okay but it's one of those things where you're what's that quote um um um um if we don't if we don't remember history we're doomed to repeat it something like that yes yeah and to me it's just like okay you want to tear down a statue of General Lee well okay you could do that or you could just put a big ass plaque right beside it and actually throw the real facts down there right I'm with you on that one and say like it or or don't like it this is our history this is where we came from and I can't speak for Canada but I have been to us museums um I was in New Orleans and went to the World War II Museum and the entire Museum was dedicated to how awesome the United States was in fighting World War I okay without much context like the British held the fort in Europe Soviet Union we were kind of shaky allies were it was an enemy of my enemy is my friend type deal like there wasn't much context like oh cool this is me but I didn't get the whole story I obviously like I studied history so I knew what was missing from this but it was very much like we're celebrating how awesome we are and across the street was the Museum of Southern Jewish experience which told a slightly different story of the Holocaust because the World War II Museum was like the US came and saved the day and there we discovered what was actually going on in the concentration camps whereas the Museum of Southern Jewish experience which I recommend was like we survived yeah we ended up in places where there was no one like us but we survived like we got through this yes we're grateful for the people who helped us but the United States didn't really enter the picture until they opened the gates and freed the camps MH mhm I'm grateful that you have seen those narratives like that's like like and I think that that's really at the end of the day where i'm saying that this it would be great if this kind of went where people could see both perspectives of things with right and it's also um I'm going to give him a shout out Dr J who was Professor who I'm now very close to and is more like a family member he recommended that I research historiography so that is also helping realize oh history is just Stories We Tell and it matters the perspective we're using I don't think you can fully have objective history other than like dates mhm because you have to put facts together in a way that people actually want to learn them and that does require making moral judgments at time because if you're writing about this took a very dark ter but if you're writing about genocide you're not a good person if you're arguing for it yeah regardless of who the target is yep there's these pieces of of un there there are Universal truths that are out there and I think that anytime that we can find the universal truths those are places that we can start to build comprom not even compromis we can build agreement on we can all agree on this one thing and and move forward from there and that's where um you know uh like that's where compromise and things like that can be built let's focus on the things that make because the same instead of let's build a career on uh arguing about the things that we differentiate on and and unfortunately we live in a time right now where that is kind of everywhere it's everywhere in in in media and and and um this is the type of stuff that that you're seeing as differences from back then comparing it to now that sort of thing that's what you're doing this is what they're handing to you uh you think about television you know David Letterman uh uh you know and and some of these other people coning and all these people they they were brought up and brought to prominence in a medium that is changing entirely Conan okay yes he is still on technically he's still on TV it is more of a streaming service now though it's kind of made the branch over it is still technically a a cable channel um but but I mean it's TV but we've changed the definition of what TV means there we go where do you see that happening do you see TV uh continuing to change is is NBC going to exist or is it going to be just peacock is is do you see um do you see it way it's become so recursive because we are now dealing with this usual channels which a lot of them those companies own streaming services are now realizing that decision paralysis is kicking in for a lot of people and if I have 200 options I'm May scroll through Netflix for 15 minutes before saying oh I'm going to go watch friends again oh which is now on HB well Max but you end up watching the same things over and over again maybe something that someone put on your watch list but again we all have watch list we're never going to watch we know this yeah but what's happening now is that instead of streaming the streaming services are adding linear channels which don't requ like you choose your channel but don't require you to okay this show's over I'm G to go watch this now they're more like if you were to put on NBC or TV Land and just decide to watch it for the whole day you could you may not like everything on I mean this is what people did back in the 50s and 60s but you could watch it from Sundown to Sun up to Su down mhm so now we have streaming versions of that but the main difference being and I think you did a really really good job okay so my generation has gone from the you know you say I've got a watch list but it we'll never watch our W watch list okay so I used I remember the time when it was three networks and it was a big deal when Fox showed up and you literally because of the the because of the VCR and the time record feature of the VCR you could actually consume everything and that was like that in music too Willie and I talked about that so you didn't leave your VCR blinking 12 no I didn't but you know I was the kid see that was the kid's job the kid's job was to show the parents how to set the timer on the VCR and and if you had a if you had a a VCR where the 12 was flashing you knew there was fragmentation in that family uh unfortunately it was a sign of domestic uh um you know uh domestic conflict and this will tell you more about my generation when I first got into Conan I watching it every day it was eighth grade I was watching it on CNBC then I was watching it every day high school but I had to record it with the VCR MH and had to remind my dad who was usually the last person to go to bed make sure it's on Channel 4 because I'm recording Conan yep and if it's not on Channel 4 I'm going to be mad yes then we got a DVR where I was now able to watch record Letterman and Conan yep because I didn't have to have it on that channel and also those two would overlap by a minute yep the DVR changed everything and I remember life before the DVR and it was possible to consume everything to have that water cooler moment the next day with people that you either went to school with or you went to work with and talk about what happened last night on this thing but now like you said like streaming uh uh um watch lists that will never be gotten to I mean I I haven't seen the last of us yet and I get chastised by my friend group for not seeing the last of us yet at this point but it's like you know got this all this crazy stuff going on in life life has also gotten busier in many respects but there are a whole bunch of things that I haven't seen that my friend group are like you have to see this this is one of those things my wife and I we we finally watched the bear I'm so happy that candy and I watched the bear and it's fantastic it's awesome we've never been in a time where there have been higher quality the variety of high quality things that are being released is just nuts and and you can't watch it all you cannot it's impossible to watch it all that is true um I watched most of the bear I have to finish a couple of episodes of season 3 it's not really my thing I'm watching it because people recommended it and yeah I feel like it peaked in season one but you were mentioning this and while the book is 15 no probably 10 13 years old you know Coy talks about it in Platinum age of television yep how there's just so much content a lot of it is good but or even great but you can't consume it all and it used to be consumable and it's very to me that's a that's a that's a hard fact that I can't consum I don't know if it used to be cons consumable because you used to have it where you had to make a choice and where it's like am I watching what's on ABC or am I watching what's on CBS yeah and then they may not be recording it so it may not be going to the archives so you may not be able to see it again so there's always been choices that have had to be made and things that you would never be able to see there's more of it now and we also feel it more because if I watch something and Netflix or Max decides to take it down I can't guarantee that you have seen it also MH so there's no communal experience yes because now we're relying on each other to say check this out like I'm watching our flag means death on Max yep which was cancelled it's a really quirky show it's not for everyone and it wasn't well advertised so I'm probably going to be most people's first interaction with the show if I suggest it to them and there's only 18 episodes so I don't know if Max is going to decide to keep it or remove it like they did so much other content absolutely absolutely um and it's an interesting time to be that person and and and to and to do this uh to recommend to people and and what I they had a show on um I think it was on Max up in Canada we have something called crave which combines uh HBO and Showtime and all the things together so we we kind of get everything won it was a show called winning time and it was a story about the uh the Los Angeles Lakers back in the day and getting Magic Johnson and how that transformed the NBA and I watched season one and I'm like this show is one of the greatest things I've ever seen it's it's so good it's it's absolutely uh it's it's it's it's an amazing show at season two they gave us you can tell it got cancelled I don't know if season 2 was eight episodes or whatever it was but in episode six it's like oh you can tell the show is cancelled because they're now taking what would be in season three and season four like like they're taking these events that happened and they're putting them all in they're truncating it and then up to the very last episode where they literally go through you know the Lakers and the Celtics and they just basically show in text what happened with the rest of the story yeah and the NBA became this and became that it's just like you know it's telling you that and it's frustrating because there's so much good stuff out there that because it didn't get the audience it's not it's not going to have a new life and this is where I think guys like Dave and Conan are geniuses because they've positioned themselves in places and given themselves projects where they can continually put things out at the interval that they want to put things out and they're kind of you know uncan when it comes to you know Netflix is not going to cancel my next guest anytime Dave wants to put one out and this is something I want to talk about with like John meany's episode came out as a one shot it wasn't even part of season 3 and season 3 has two episodes in it and that's okay if Dave that's what Dave wants to do that's what Dave can do they're not gonna cancel Conan's podcast and his podcast will lead to whatever projects that he wants to do and in this day and age if you're that that person that's kind of how you have to to negotiate it because it is so Cutthroat and so uh there are so many factors there are so many good shows that don't get the audience because they don't get the audience they don't get a life unfortunately so it's it's pretty genius what Dave and Conan are doing it is and I think they left at the right time rather than going down with because I you know how I feel about late night as genre I have loved it historically yep but it's dying and the clearest situation for me was when they got rid of The Late Late Show and replaced it with after midnight yep which is a completely different format and is made to be more digestible online and depending on how long Fallon and coar stick around they could be the last of their kind yeah yeah it'd be very interesting to see what would happen if any one of them decided to retire you know and and I mean I don't know like like Kimmel I it feels to me like Jimmy is doing a really good job of figuring out a work life balance in a way that no other late night talk show host has ever done like it feels like that's what he's doing he's he's focusing on being a dad he's focusing on his family having time off that sort of thing he clearly is in a position where he had time off but he wasn't with his family well we don't know that I mean I'm sure some of that have three wives well okay you know he he did yes but and Johnny did work himself into that place where he did have time off you're right like like like you know and Jimmy in some respects is taking that path boy am I sad that he didn't he's not doing the Oscars this year I I uh I I I've loved him doing the Oscars and I think that that is a a beautiful throwback that's one thing that Jimmy has in common with Johnny Johnny was an amazing Oscar host and and Jimmy is we could talk about Dave's Oscars um Oprah Oprah loved it and again the narrative on that is fascinating like like I've talked to so many people like his Oscar being Dave yes Dave decided to torpedo problem with the Oscars because Dave being Dave at the Oscars if you know Dave and you love Dave you're like oh yeah this is this is gonna go down but this is not going to go with the room the thing is it was like but it wasn't received that badly that's the thing it wasn't but but Dave immediately started torpedoing the show and saying it was terrible it was just he was it was so funny like but it wasn't that badly received back in the day we like folks who were huge day we remember it it was like but but immediately The Narrative changed what was it I forget who it was it was like an halfway until someone like was it Rob low and it was like Cinder not Cinderella Snow White okay singing at the Oscars uh the yeah a few years ago yes no I think it's older than that but like there was something maybe it was it was just that one universally horrible like we can all oh that was the yeah yeah absolutely and and and and um Dave you got to remember Billy Crystal was hosting and I think it was the next year Billy Crystal hosted Billy Chris I forget which EP which time it was I don't know if he had returned for it or he was doing it but David appeared the next year in a in a in a pre-tape um you know for the next year's Oscar and and he made the Uma Oprah joke he was in a plane he's looking down hey Billy Uma Oprah and he you know like giving him a suggestion to do it it was such I I Dave seen that but I'm also at the mercy of whatever people post online yeah well that's just the thing um you and I can do this forever and I mean gosh has it been I think we've done this for 90 minutes already we're almost 90 minutes into this thing I know it's well my next we say this but you and I say this like oh my gosh I can't believe but this is something that you and I can do and that's one of the things I I cherish our our friendship I really really do and I'm glad that I'm glad that we can do this and we can um you know this is this is what my friends and I always referred to as nerding out for you it's it's it's it's literally a an academic Pursuit and a and and a potential career however that shapes out whatever I'm so grateful that that that you get a chance to spend so much time doing this and and uh thank you for coming back now let's let's let's finish with some my next guest let's just kind of go through um let's go through some of the some of the highlights you've got notes there of some of the shows not but we I don't know if you realize this but we still have not gotten into why my next guest the you mentioned the Justin Bieber underpant situation but why it's so ridiculous and the whole thing let's do it let's finish up with that and then I want to give you a couple of highlights and then go from there so yeah let's do that something clearly was not connecting correctly in Zach's brain that he's like I'm gonna try on Justin Bieber boxers it's a great story and this is this is I highly recommend everybody go watch the Z El epis who's gonna totally love this and it's like this is weird and his sister was totally on board and then part of the reason why I sought it out was like wait a minute like first of all like I seen bits and pieces of Between Two Ferns yeah what bit on Between Two Ferns required Zach to get slimed like I'm still baffled by thought processes that were clearly not thought out completely well I think that's probably part of the genius of of Zach you know things things either were thought out and they're extremely aew or they weren't thought out and here it is and you don't really know the difference between the two trying on Justin Bieber's boxers it's fantastic fantastic dirty boxers like they weren't even clean so I'm just like wait a minute you didn't want to put on your own dirty boxer so Justin Bieber are okay I don't I I I I cannot I don't understand so like I'm a gigantic those 10 minutes yeah make the entire episode for me and like highlight of the series because nothing makes sense and it's glorious and Dave says we're leaving it in and and and that's I love that I uh because Dave's the voice of reason as Zach's telling this story and Zach's like oh wait you're you're right this doesn't sound right yeah yeah he's telling the story like his niece is in the wrong MH for not fully appreciating these used box what he's done what he's done yes exactly like I got Justin Bieber's boxers for you like if they were PA McCartney your grandmother would have loved them like it's the perfect thing to come out on a on a on a production featuring David Letterman with with with with somebody and uh I don't believe I like I it felt organic that's the other thing about my next guest that I love there are some moments in it that feel really really organic that moment felt also you can tell that was real by how embarrassed Zach got by it yeah yeah I shouldn't even be saying this why are you say I mean like oh Zach oh Zach um what else do you have for highlights for my next guest for you because you did just go through the run and and and uh what are some of the highlights for you um so Jay-Z out of the first season really getting to know him more than just a billionaire in Beyonce's husband yep um Kanye West was a low point just because he was saying so many things and Dave could not possibly catch them all yeah um then there was also shahu Khan who I didn't even know existed and I found it fascinating that Dave sat down with this guy who speaks perfectly fine English but he isn't well known in the angler sphere and one the most famous one of the most famous enter it's like when jackiechan shows up Jackie Chan uh showed up in I it's in the 90s I believe it was I don't the late 90s maybe and he had a movie that was being released commercially in America Jackie Chan's the biggest movie star on the planet but not in America you know he's bigger than Arnold Schwarzenegger back then and and and and and he shows up and and and Dave talks with it like I love that and this felt a little bit like that you've got this guy who is from a fan uh um a famous standpoint more famous than anybody in America just because of sheer numbers in India it comes off as pretty normal like yeah I got a lot of money yeah I can afford nice things but like I wouldn't be here without these people and they deserve my time and respect attention absolutely and so Dave interviewing him I thought that was a and that was another one-off that was another oneoff that was that was in between Seasons so I thought that was a fantastic episode as well yeah also I thought it was odd that in both Tiffany hades's and in Robert Downey Jr's episode Dave is cleaning up after their animals why was that a thing like I don't invite people over to come clean my catch litter boxes the RDJ episode I thought was really good um it's funny you know I I have a hard time I have a hard time focusing on the things that I don't like as much Tiffany's episode I didn't connect with as much I just I just didn't I didn't connect with um I really enjoyed her like when she hosted Saturday Night Live like she had this kind of uh pop uh where you know she was going on all the talk shows and doing all the she hosted SNL I did enjoy her monologue on it uh very very much she was also playing to the audience more than doing the interview with Dave yes yes I I think that's one of the I think that's one of the reasons why I had a harder time connecting with it it felt it felt produced you know what I talked to somebody not too long ago about the Miley episode who's who's uh attached to the to to the project and and I I just said to them oh my God the Miley episode I loved it oh it was so good and and they said Miley Miley really gave herself to the project or like not it wasn't the word surrendered I forget the word they used but they said Billy ish oh gosh I love that episode as well and Ryan Reynolds yep yes RB is so much smarter than people give her credit for yep like she actually is very into presidential history yes and people don't give her credit for that because they listen to her music and think she's supposed to be a role model for kids and she's like have you heard my songs yeah like why are your kids listening to them thank you like okay and now we can talk a little bit about the evolution of the show maybe I will do some cuts and actually we we keep going are you okay for time right now how are you for time yeah I'm good you're okay all right so so like you know we think about episode one where you've got these cuts that are happening and it's maybe two different narratives trying to be merged into one or whatnot but that by the time we get to where cardi B is it's like okay what we're going to do is we're going to have our time on stage or our time with our one-on-one but then we're going to go to a bodega in your old neighborhood or we're going to go to was it it was Lincoln's uh it was linin uh uh presidential uh Museum uh but with the subject and then going through some of these things or we're going to race cars with so much better format I I really I agree I I I I really really like I like it in front of an audience and and don't get me wrong I love jie Louie D's conversation that they had um and I think that because they are they've been around for so long and and and in the trenches for so long like Julie Lou D was in Saturday Night Live While Late Night with David Letterman was going on you know a couple floors away back in the day like they have a and then never mind the Seinfeld connection and all of that um plus Dave Dave Chael was good and he was in front of an audience it wasn't a huge audience but he was in front of an audience I like it better when it's in front of an audience I do it's a very different feel yeah it also depends on the size of the audience I think I prefer it in front of like a small audience or if it's something like I keep going back to the Musicians for some reason but like lizo or Billy ish where it's like we're sitting in our house we're talking okay we're going to go over in a different room play around with some music yep or just like two people hanging out discussing stuff um I'm also one thing I noticed is how many people he interviewed who then had things happen where like like Ellen where it's like public perception of her is now more negative Chang has changed Will Smith another one yes very much so where they literally had to put like this happened before he P stopped Chris Rock in the face yeah that's a question I want to ask him um you know well first off I don't you know again because you know he famously looks forward doesn't really look back I mean he looks back at his Comedy Store days and things like that but but you know so so so his context is different than than maybe the context you and I have but one of the questions I would love to ask him is um you know they not Will Smith yeah with Will Smith was did you want to do an addendum of some sort did you want to because at the end of the day that episode came out not very long after the Oscars and like you say they put this disclaimer on there and uh you know but was there a desire because they clearly connected and and and and um you know they had this history from from when he had be on the show which was great but then they they clearly connected you know was there they did and it was also the beginning of seeing a different side of W Smith where like after watching that I'm like now I understand more about what happened at the Oscars yeah yeah yes and it's beforehand yes absolutely what a great what a great Point um still wrong no of course on all these levels and and and but I'm curious if there's part of him that would be like hm maybe we do an addendum and we attach it to the end of the episode or something like that where he he could talk about it is that something that Dave would have been interested in I'm not saying will would have necessarily been interested in it but is that something that Dave as a broadcaster is somebody who spent all this time Dave did do an I'm not Dave well did do an apology uh core of Swords sure but not but not you know knowing that uh Hey an episode of my next guest is coming out you know it'd be it would certainly be a popular if but you know interesting to say the least if they would have you know connected them and put them together because the timing was it was right around that time when it came out they could have easily shot something like they did that with with with President zalinski you know they had the interview and then at the end of the episode they got a zoom call that's more recent at that point um and and well yeah they could have very easily done that and I'm I'm curious if Dave had any interest in doing that or not or if he was like no I'm moving Channel J with being like what the hell were you thinking all contr full Circ oh my God can you imagine if they if David Letterman sat down withi and said what the hell were you thinking oh you're delightful I appreciate you so much though I could see like if someone brought that to Dave he might actually be like that people would go crazy over that oh it would be so funny like oh my God that's a that's fantastic I appreciate you so much Tim Kardashian what' you think of that one um for me the out of Studio things were what mostly stuck in my mind and the Walgreens going to was it Walgreens CS CVS right and I felt like this was the third time in her life she had ever been in one and she was preparing for an exam that she would eventually finish or well pass but she ended up not continuing with the lawyer path yeah yeah still an advocate but just has different things different yeah but but she was so publicly going for the lawyer thing where I'm just like okay yeah yeah but still an advocate though and and and you know um and I appreciate that whenever whenever somebody is able to take even a portion of their of their celebrity and use it uh to make the world a better place and and that something that I believe that I I I'm really glad that Dave highlighted that part of her on the show I think a lot of people I've talked to a lot of people who wouldn't give Kim Kardashian the time of day just because their show wasn't something that that they enjoyed and then they watched this episode and was like oh my goodness I'm I'm you know like people are there are people who are really grateful for my next guest because of exactly that they get to know somebody like cardi B Kim Kardashian's one of those people where I'm like I know they have more depth than what we're seeing I don't particularly like Kim Kardashian but she is very smart and has multiple businesses and has gone through adversity I mean oh my goodness the adversity that she talked about on that show um that is true too and it was about her father and her mother which I didn't know about what actually went down and it was focusing more on her growing up rather than the fact oh you got famous because of a sex tape you made with Ray J yeah and and didn't shy away from that either like didn't candy coat like like these are some things that uh again I very much appreciate about this version of Dave and this Incarnation like like you know I always use the I always use the short hand that Dave's doing the the Tom Snider thing and and and really at the end of day need to sit down with share oh wouldn't that be fun that be okay so that's a that's a question that I asked uh early on in the Letterman podcast I would I would ask guests who are a couple of people that uh you'd like to see Dave interview on my next guest you'd have some fascinating answers on that share is a great one share's a really good one I know I've heard a lot of people say Steve Martin a lot of people would like to see Steve Martin from a legend perspective I'm not a Jeff Rogan fan but I'm also not a um Dave Chappelle fan and I thought that was one of the best shows so I would like to see Dave with Jeff Rogan Joe Rogan I mean yeah Joe Rogan why do I have his name down as Jeff but Joe Rogan yes um you know no he's the biggest he's the biggest broadcaster on the planet um I just watched his Netflix special and and and I thought it was um and I I really enjoy Joe a lot like I loved uh his last two specials strange times and and triggered I love them both I can talk about bits that he had on both that were like oh were were prolific as far as I'm concerned and clever and whatnot I thought this one here was really really safe uh but that being said as far as Joe's concerned I thought it was safe um but that being said with what he has done with the comedy Mothership in in in um Austin and his ties to The Comedy Store like and how he's tried to made the comedy Mothership the best version of The Comedy Store that you could ever have when it comes to developing comedic Talent it's amazing what he is doing down there right now and because of his ties I don't know if you watch the uh I'm sure you did you the The five-part Comedy Store special uh that they did I think it was on Showtime or or HBO one of them if you haven't watched it I highly recommend that the one where they were all acting as people from that time period no no no this is a five-part dock that literally talked to the original people all the way up to the current people including having like a rooftop conversation with like Leno and Rogan and and I think I don't have Showtime I did read the book yeah that I'm not sure if that's do have the book fantastic book uh but the five-part documentary was amazing Dave was in it uh and and all of these different Generations were there and so the idea of to me I think a no-brainer would be Dave going down to Austin doing a my next guest on the stage of the mothership with Joe Dave appearing on Joe's podcast um you know which is the biggest show on the planet right now and and and then and then maybe even the idea of using the mothership to have a like a comedy store reunion of some sort where you know kill Tony came from from from from from Rogan all these things that are out there right ber ker uh you know who Dave has talked about Neil Brennan a lot of these people um have roots with Joe Rogan and and and and have Dave Letterman connections as well like to me there is a legacy piece that's there um the ironic or you know sad part about it is Dave isn't necessarily interested in any Legacy piece type type stuff so I don't know that we'll ever see that but yeah I think that that's probably Johnny wasn't either the fact that Dave even is still doing something after he retired yes it used to be well I mean Jack par kicked around a little bit but didn't really do much after he stepped down yep Johnny Carson completely disappeared except for the one appearance on Letterman yep um Steve Allen tried Steve Allen TR I know that sort of just he went from being the host of the tonight's show to appearing on tattletales which makes me sad I I I'm I'm in your Camp I'm really really grateful that we're seeing as much Dave stuff as we are um you know he he calls a few podcast shots a year his show with Dax was his episode of Dax Shephard was really good his show with Neil his episode with Neil Brennan was amazing when he appeared on Neil's podcast so it's yeah absolutely fantastic so so yes um you know I'm grateful that we get new Dave I'm grateful for my next guest that there is this Incarnation there um let's just uh go through a couple here you love the Miley episode yeah me too it was it was it was magical um I really really liked it a lot um John meany not one of my favorites okay but I'm not a John meany fan yeah and it seemed to me that it was like if that's who John meany is like he's kind especially after going to rehab and then having to to come clean about what he was doing mhm his stage Persona and who he is as a person have become less clearly defined oh that's interesting as separate things yeah that's that's yeah you're right and and but I would argue not even argue just comment that that's what standup is that's what's happening with standup I mean the the level of B like before standup used to be oh yeah my wife and I were doing this and that and then they would tell something that didn't happen an exaggerated story and the only part of reality that was there was that you have a wife you have a wife yes um you know and it's it's it's a completely fabricated madeup thing now though it feels like standup and vulnerability have been pressed together with Elmer's glue and and and and the line has blurred a little bit and and when something happens to you personally as a stand up this is like great now we've got some fodder like I look at Chris Rock special um you know if the Will Smith slap didn't happen Chris Rock special which I like the special a lot but from everything I'm hearing him live with the cameras not on was even better uh you know Chappelle Dave Chappelle you know again arguably the biggest standup in the world has some real life controversy going on um and and that is what's fueling what some are saying it his best Stadium show that he's done in a long long time so you're taking these moments of actual vulnerability in reality and putting it together and isn't it interesting that that's happening now it is I'm I'm just I'm just saying like that's what's going on I'm not saying it's good bad or making a judgment I'm just saying that John meany used to come off off as this cleancut guy dressing in suit and now we're like yeah he wears the suit but dude's got major issues yeah the um talking about the cutaways going back to my next guest um the the moment with him and Dave and his dad in the restaurant um might be the most vulnerable thing with three of the least vulnerable people I've ever seen right and Dave talks a lot about his depression and alcohol addiction throughout the entire Series where we're getting to know Dave in ways that Peak through occasionally but the only reason why a lot of us even know that is because we watched so many episodes and hang out with the people who are like did you know no because I also remember I must have been in middle school or High School reading random um websites about David Letterman Conan and Johnny whoever like some of the ones about Letterman would give stories where it's like how would I even know that if that was true or not like one of them that I clearly remember like was like he got really high and then like ate two pints of Ben and& Jerry's and then had a stomach ache and I'm like like and this was like in the middle of the night I'm like how does anyone even know this is true he talked about that was his experience with pot because he was never really a pot guy and he talked about how he was watching a baseball game once and I think it might have been was either in the same I don't know if it was the same instance or not but he was watching a baseball game Durant episode he did that oh there we go there we go yeah and he was saying there's a mound of dirt just like the GU it's yeah mound of dirt wow and he's standing on a mound of dirt W and Kevin Durant's like yeah that's how you know you got the good stuff that's right and that episode I wanted to like it but I think Kevin Durant's style doesn't really lend itself to this type of interview because he's very laconic and when he says a joke because he only says a few things at a time it takes you second to like wait a minute he just made a joke at Dave's expense yep it's beyond dry it's yeah you you really got to look for it and and you know um I I I do enjoy that but yeah there's a lot of that in that episode even the even the the the clips of Dave um at the press conference oh yes you know yes okay Dave that's your last one or something like that or whatever and you don't know like is he but right where it's like is he like annoyed just want or is he just and then when you watch the episode you're like oh that's just how he is they're just SC dead yes and it's like he makes Dave look like supy sales or something it's like Dave is the farthest thing from that meet Kevin Durant there you go oh and and again this is Encompass is what I think I'm so glad that we're talking about this I've wanted to talk about my next guest like this uh since the the damn thing started and I haven't had a chance to do it so I'm glad that we're doing it I'm glad it's with you um I'll say this about uh I'm just gonna finish this about Lou Hamilton because I've never said this here my wife and I have become F1 fans we actually watch F1 now uh we'll we we'll DVR the qualifying uh the day before we'll actually um you know DVR the show the the actual race itself if it's across the world and it's happening in the middle of the night that kind of a thing we'll have it sitting there waiting we wait wake up at 7:00 in the morning the reason that we're F1 fans is because David Letterman interviewed leis Hamilton and then at the same time or just after Again The Genius of of of of of the Synergy that Dave has done the the the reality show uh on Netflix the drive to survive F1 reality show came out or it had just come out or there was a season out or something like that and so we we were so engaged with Dave and Lewis and I mean this is one of the this is if not the biggest one of the one of the I think football or soccer is the biggest sport in the world but but but but F1 is probably you know it's up there I think it's actually Cricket it might be yeah and cricket's up there too and and and you know it'll be interesting to see if in a in a future season of my next guest Dave interviews a cricket player who's the biggest star in the world that nobody's ever heard of over in North America that'd be interesting too but but Lewis Hamilton and it was funny when Dave came out and did Lewis's introduction he's like the name of the show is my next guest needs no introduction and and it was it felt like he was almost waffling with the idea of saying you know here we have a guest that may need an introduction because F1 drivers even the most famous most decorated in the world may not be a household name here but he kind of pulled it back he kind of he didn't he didn't go down that path but it felt like he was gonna go down that path and and right and but then he brought LS Hamilton out and my wife and I were so engaged with the story and what they did and watching them go to Silverstone and and and and whatnot that we actually started the next day the Netflix show and now we cannot wait for it it's like crack like that Netflix F1 show is so good and our gateway drug to that crack was my next guest with David Letterman with ls Hamilton so um so there you go if that was a strategy if that was strategery as uh will frell as George W bush likes to say if that was strategery on on on Netflix's part um you know the collaboration with Dave and Netflix and F1 geniusly done because you got us you literally hooked us and and and we have started watching this stuff because of it so but other than that I can't think of any other episodes you know the Jerry and the Zach episodes aside I can't think of any other ones that have been kind of brought together with any potential strategy or agenda the rest of them just seem to be people that Dave is interested in I think you're right I mean I might throw Vladimir zalinski in there because of clearly to bring attention to a war and what's going on in Ukraine y but that's different from trying to promote your latest movie or Netflix special yeah I agree I totally agree um you're delightful I appreciate you is there anything that you wanted to get you know and we're going to do this more and more because you and I do it anyway so we might as well make a show out of it when we do it our five part series no one asked for absolutely and uh I love it and and that's the beautiful thing about uh us having the the control of of of this thing um you know we had U the guy who hosts Johnny Mack John mcdermit on a few weeks ago he he's the host of the the daily comedy News podcast which is fantastic I highly recommend it for anybody who likes comedy and and he talked about the idea of the democratization of of of the internet and of of of these types of shows and he's like I love it that he goes a financial planner can come and talk about David Letterman and and and and it's great and it's awesome that we can do this and that's uh the thing that I love is that we have total control over this Alison I appreciate you very much I appreciate your friendship um I appreciate the fact that you are a foxhole buddy with somebody that I can talk to about this stuff and and I appreciate your insights your perspect I know and I appreciate that it's mutual like I appreciate the fact that that that that you care about what I have to say and I listen to what you have to say and perspectives and things thank you so much for taking time to come on here and as uh my best to David um and and and I'm so grateful that you get to spend some time uh uh digging into what you love again and Dr lips is GNA happen at some point I know it and I know whatever it is Weir to me that like that's such a big deal to you where I'm just like honestly before I got to Rowan I had no idea who this guy was yep um and now you're back and you you certainly do now and and it's uh I mean it's it's super cool that you're doing this so so I'm very proud of you and excited for you and um I just wish you all the best this semester and I can't wait till you come back yeah I can't wait either awesome I appreciate you so much um okay so that's why we do the show everybody so we can nerd out about all things when it comes to TV when it comes to David Letterman um I just uh thank you very very much for everybody who supports this show thank you so much for uh the the good and the not so good comments that's they're all taken with a grain of salt every single one of them we're just trying to create a venue where we can talk about the greatest body of broadcast work in history and the tangental projects around it that of David Letterman and Company uh this has been another episode of the Letterman podcast with Mike Chism coincidentally I am Mike Chisum thank you and good night overcoat and underpan s